Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[dominic25]

anyone ask refund neptune?

yes, on both of my orders. going to buy btc with it instead.

Did you want to sell your customer appreciation Neptune? Please email me if you have an interest Thanks [email protected]

[dominic25]

Submitted my refund request for the Neptune last night. Love KnC very much and was very happy with my Jupiter, but with the dark horses and apparent venture capital flowing into the mining industry, I'm too much of a small fry to stomach the risk. I don't think ASICs and centralization of mining will kill Bitcoin, it just leaves the door open for other cryptos that are more ASIC resistant to become a strong second. Best to you all.

I have an interest in your Neptune. Is it the first batch 'customer appreciation'? If yes, please email me at [email protected]  Thanks

[timmmers]

Think again. $40k gets you 5 TH delivered next week. By the time you get the Neptunes, difficulty will be much higher. 5 TH now is far more profitable than 12 TH several months from now.

5th next week? Who sells them?

25+ Antminers from Bitmain.
https://www.bitmaintech.com/product.htm

3th of Antminers = 5kw (by taking 300watts per Antminer) = 31.654BTC (without shipping) = 25.8k $
3th of Neptunes = 2.5kw = 14.6BTC = 12k $

Two times more $$$ and watts for the same hash-power.

There is a really big difference here. You really can't even get a Neptune for at least another several months so why even compare right now?

All my friends requested refunds also for their Neptunes. In the bunch I think there was like 18 of them. Don't be surprised if you see some go on sale or we hear some news from KNC now. Once they see their very loyal customer base is dumping them out I'm pretty sure we'll eventually hear some thing from them soon. They only have one spokesperson here who isn't a sales person and can't really confirm on anything since all decisions are made by Sam. Only a matter of time we'll hear something. Once you are a millionaire and see possible money that could be yours leaving your bank account it starts to make you worry, no matter how much you have.

Or those of us who stand pat get extra hashing power or some other recompense. 

or maybe discount on hosting

Depending on how this pans out, maybe a tax on hosted miners profits? They will attract capital gains tax as assets ..how the hell that will work and who pays it though? http://www.pfhub.com/sweden-will-treat-bitcoin-as-an-asset-not-a-currency-311/

Worth looking into if you are thinking of hosting in Sweden to avoid nasty surprises.

[1l1l11ll1l]

At this point, I don't think there's any reason to go with a Neptune, Cointerra is days away from shipping a proven chip/product. Buying now is May delivery, at 2TH for $6k, compared to some design thoughts on paper. Yes KNC delivered thoughts on paper to product lightning quick, but stuff can still happen to cause major delays.

It's also easy since KNC is sold out again, but batch 3? It'd have to be a $3k Neptune to make it even a consideration.

[Tehfiend]

The winner in the mining game is the one who as the most power efficient machine (or the one with free electricity).
I know Neptune's will be hashing while Antminer's will be turned off because they use to much electricity.

At the current prices of mining hardware the difference betwen a antminer and expected neptune effiency  matters very little in the grand scheme of things when calculating ROI. Lets imagine that neptune hits 0,5GH/w and compare that to the antminers 2W/GH.

per TH/s of Neptune/Antminer we get the following at 0,15 usd/kwh

Neptune 0,5x24x30x0.15 = 54

Antminer then = 4x54 =216

So the day you have to turn off your antminers, on that day your neptune will make  162 usd/month per TH/s. While most are expecting KNC to over deliver the only promise they have given is 3TH so that would make it roughly 450 usd/month. Doesn't look that terrible but diff will not stop increasing the day the antminers are turned off. All I'm trying to say is that at current prices getting the right price/gh for the delivery window is more important than power consumption, at least while we are no longer talking of order of magnitude differences between offerings anymore.

If you think about it, while a faster time to market obviously benefits the pre-order customers, a higher power efficiency benefits KNC because they will be able to sell the 20nm ASIC chip much longer. Regardless, I've actually decided to keep my order because I'm going to gamble that the early "customer appreciation" batch will at the very least break even in BTC because I believe they do plan on rewarding their customers in whatever their actual schedule is which I will bet is early April. I just hope they can pull it off...

/rollsdice

[DPoS]

At this point, I don't think there's any reason to go with a Neptune, Cointerra is days away from shipping a proven chip/product. Buying now is May delivery, at 2TH for $6k, compared to some design thoughts on paper.

you mean those same design thoughts that are still only on paper for cointerra??? 

[1l1l11ll1l]

At this point, I don't think there's any reason to go with a Neptune, Cointerra is days away from shipping a proven chip/product. Buying now is May delivery, at 2TH for $6k, compared to some design thoughts on paper.

you mean those same design thoughts that are still only on paper for cointerra??? 

correct

https://cointerra.com/update-prototype-testing-completed-certification-production-week/

[ASIC-K]

Honestly my thinking is that they really dont care about early supporters anymore....we got them off the ground and now they are considered the best company in hardware, they will now focus on commercial applications and forget about everyone. it makes perfect business sense, home mining is already almost gone, so why appease us? im not chancing it anymore.

[vesperwillow]

One thing is certain, if folks keep their Neptune miners and by the time they're delivered they won't ROI.. just ebay the darn things. You'll make a profit.

[Pt0x]

If you read this article:

http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2014/01/21/bitcoin-infrastructure-mining-data-center/

It makes you wonder two things:
- From who "Emmanuel Abiodun" its buying all that hash power (4000 rigs).
- If bough from KNC, did they adjusted their timetable to meet the power requirements of such big "whales"??.

just saying......

[mikep2012]

If you read this article:

http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2014/01/21/bitcoin-infrastructure-mining-data-center/

It makes you wonder two things:
- From who "Emmanuel Abiodun" its buying all that hash power (4000 rigs).
- If bough from KNC, did they adjusted their timetable to meet the power requirements of such big "whales"??.

just saying......

on page 2 it says that 2500 are from cointerra, not sure about the rest

[timmmers]

One thing is certain, if folks keep their Neptune miners and by the time they're delivered they won't ROI.. just ebay the darn things. You'll make a profit.

If people keep cancelling they won't need to go to ebay, KNC will have some to sell.

I can't see how they can break even myself, after all most of the last machines haven't yet. My little merc is 3 months old in two days, it's mined 9 btc, luckily for me that makes a dollar profit due to the unforseen rise in the exchange rate. BTC were around 90 each when I bought it, so it is likely to never break even in BTC terms. It's not even half way there today. If you think that kind of rise in exchange rate is likely to save buyer again you're dreaming short term, maybe long term it will though.

The day my little merc started whirring it was mining around .5 btc a day, it's managed .5 in the last ten days. That is without any major competitor to KNC really firing out massive numbers, mainly KNC stuff and dribs and drabs...NOW is the time the other rigs are starting to come to market properly. We all knew they would. We don't know the damage yet though. There's no reason to think that the difficulty won't do similar damage to returns if Neptunes are delivered in May or June.

KNC need to charge less, make less profit. Then they have a future. It's not even ROI for them is it after all? It's ROOPI (return on other people's investment - customers money invested).  

The one thing that we can be certain of in the bitcoin world is that nothing is certain in the bitcoin world. Most of us won our last gamble, not due to some wonder performed by KNC, because what we mined is worth more (which is why ebaying rigs was ever a good thing at a premium over what we paid). Past performance is no guarantee of future gains. That's never been truer.

[Paladin69]

the last batch of neptunes was no refunds?! holy, didnt know that.

KNC used to be very customer friendly, but not anymore. Now you get:
No refunds
No PayPal/Credit cards accepted
No plausible explanations on decisions they make, but just quoting the word "procedures"

I remember back in August when Sam Cole was willing to talk with his customers for hours over the phone, but now he is extremely busy.

I am also very close at refunding my Neptunes...

KnC no longer honors refunds?

[CryptKeeper]

Is anyone thinking about taking taxes into account when they are calculating their break even? I don't think so, but I do, because I don't want to end in jail! If you deduct taxes from your profit, things get really worse... 

[timmmers]

Is anyone thinking about taking taxes into account when they are calculating their break even? I don't think so, but I do, because I don't want to end in jail! If you deduct taxes from your profit, things get really worse... 

You will be writing off capital expenditure too though, that could make a big difference.

[CryptKeeper]

Is anyone thinking about taking taxes into account when they are calculating their break even? I don't think so, but I do, because I don't want to end in jail! If you deduct taxes from your profit, things get really worse... 

You will be writing off capital expenditure too though, that could make a big difference.

I fully agree to that, but you must declare them in usd and not in the btc you have spend. 

[Phoenix1969]

I think a Neptune at 3000 GH will ROI in BTC as long as it starts hashing at around a 5 billion difficulty.

We'll likely hit a difficulty of 5 billion sometime in late March / early April.
  

I think more like 15 to 20 billion. It looks to me like about a dozen companies are about to deliver before april.
            BUT
All those noob miners and new btc users will also be creating "Dead Bitcoin days" driving the price up with a BTC shortage, as the usage increases, and the speculation increases..., which will save us in fiat returns.
Eventually, the transaction fees per block will also become a more significant value as the block sizes increase etc.... untill finally... After the last Bitcoin is issued, that's all that miners will have or need.... transaction fees.
Many good things to come in btc very soon.... Wells Fargo, Google, E-Bay, TigerDirect, PayPal, Borse, Forex, "Bitcoin ATM's", Campaign Donations, IRA's, Military and humanitarian aid, new exchanges popping up everywhere, and best of all, The Chairman of the Federal Reserve himself endorsed Bitcoin.  Need I say more?
I see a future, where there is no "Checkout" in stores at all. The device on the product has either been paid for, or not.. by scanning the QRcode with your android Dick-Tracey watch.... Soon.
Everyone will have a BTC wallet on their phone.
No more digging for change on the bus, or toll roads, or parking meters, paid toilets, Phone booths, vending machines, McDonald's, and all those other annoying places you seem to have to dig for change!
No more bank or store robberies!
No more pickpockets.
Disability "checks" will be deposited on the 1st every month in btc.
Real-Estate transactions will clear escrow in minutes.
There will be no need for "ATM"s or banks for most.
"Checking accounts" will disappear, and those using old fiat will be under suspicion.
Remember that time your buddy went to Vegas, had a blast, brought a hooker to the room, fell asleep, and when he woke up, his wallet and a kidney were missing? That's not likely to happen any more... except for the kidney...hahaha..  except, this time, they track down the hooker, and your kidney, because her wallet recorded a block transmitted from your phone, which was traced via GPS.
Someday it will be embedded directly in your I.D. ...Remember NWO?   ahemmm..., right along with a portion of the block-chain, and be solar or everlasting battery powered with built in retina scanners. Personalized advertisements will play on your phone or ID based on your past purchases and places you visit online as you walk around stores offering coupons and discounts.
This is just the beginning of the world's wealth re-distribution.
The blockchain will literally be transmitted pocket-to pocket(already happening), and some will find they've become sterile from being a wireless hotspot all the time....  lol
Just a year ago, a cashless society was a pipe-dream....   This is gonna be a wild ride!..... and the name KnCminer will live to the end of time.
Those with the most efficient miners will enjoy a residual income forever, which is probably why KNC is going hard at efficiency. Considering the rate of adaptation, and the rate at which coins are produced, leads me to one inevitable conclusion... HUGE price rises, ongoing, in waves, for years to come... Keep those coin folks. Facts be known, I could buy two brand new 2014 Subaru Foresters with the BTC I made from KNCMiner products, or a fixer-upper home... but I know better than to cut myself short by cashing them in.... all, and more than my original fiat has been removed from the pot too. It's pure profit from here on out....
May we all see our dreams come true...  Good night all.

[wasubii]

Couldn't find a decent offer for my day 1 preorder neptune (customer appreciation batch) so i have requested a refund. Lucy at KnC responded to my email in less than 30 minutes.

I have sent the bank details and will let you know how long it takes to arrive. Lucy says 3 to 10 days so i guess KnC are processing the requests straight away and the time it takes it the normal wire transfer time

[Elenelen]

I will ask a refund as well (first hour preorder), because KNC changed its priorities from "deliver as fast as possible" to "develop as well as possible".  Their priority switched to building huge data-centers for hosting, which priority conflicts with our (and yours) priority to mine at least ROI.  ROI isn't possible if KNC delivers weeks/months too late.

Even my second-day Jupiter isn't getting ROI: I mined currently 50 BTC, and maybe this will be 60 at the end of this year. But that still will be less than would I have bought BTC in Jun-2013.  Prospectives for Neptune (first day preorder) are even worse, so better to refund, and buy BTC instead....

Sorry KNC but I'm not willing to prefund your Data-center ambitions....without a decent ROI for me.

[timmmers]

I think a Neptune at 3000 GH will ROI in BTC as long as it starts hashing at around a 5 billion difficulty.

We'll likely hit a difficulty of 5 billion sometime in late March / early April.
  

I think more like 15 to 20 billion. It looks to me like about a dozen companies are about to deliver before april.
            BUT
All those noob miners and new btc users will also be creating "Dead Bitcoin days" driving the price up with a BTC shortage, as the usage increases, and the speculation increases..., which will save us in fiat returns.
Eventually, the transaction fees per block will also become a more significant value as the block sizes increase etc.... untill finally... After the last Bitcoin is issued, that's all that miners will have or need.... transaction fees.
Many good things to come in btc.... Wells Fargo, Google, E-Bay, PayPal, Borse, Forex, "Bitcoin ATM's", Campaign Donations, IRA's, Military aid, need I say more?
I see a future, where there is no "Checkout" in stores at all. The device on the product has either been paid for, or not.. by scanning the QRcode with your android Dick-Tracey watch.... Soon.
Everyone will have a BTC wallet on their phone.
No more digging for change on the bus, or toll roads, or parking meters, paid toilets, Phone booths, vending machines, McDonald's, and all those other annoying places you seem to have to dig for change!
No more bank or store robberies!
No more pickpockets.
Disability "checks" will be deposited on the 1st every month in btc.
There will be no need for "ATM"s or banks for most.
"Checking accounts" will disappear, and those using old fiat will be under suspicion.
Remember that time your buddy went to Vegas, had a blast, brought a hooker to the room, fell asleep, and when he woke up, his wallet and a kidney were missing? That's not likely to happen any more... except for the kidney...hahaha
Someday it will be embedded directly in your I.D. ...Remember NWO?   ahemmm..., right along with a portion of the block-chain, and be solar or everlasting battery powered with built in retina scanners. Personalized advertisements will play on your phone or ID based on your past purchases and places you visit online as you walk around stores offering coupons and discounts.
This is just the beginning of the world's wealth re-distribution.
The blockchain will literally be transmitted pocket-to pocket(already happening), and some will find they've become sterile from being a wireless hotspot all the time....  lol
Just a year ago, a cashless society was a pipe-dream....   This is gonna be a wild ride!..... and the name KnCminer will live to the end of time.

You're right mate, a lot of very positive stuff seems to be on the verge of happening. I think you're thinking similarly to me that your coins will be worth seriously more in say 5 years so if they don't break even at the moment you're mining them eventually that will right itself retrospectively? IF you read reddit posts recently, especially the Google reply to an email and how that's panning out, you'd be hard pressed to be pessimistic about the future of bitcoin.
For me though, mining seems like it could easily be a way to swap a number of bitcoins for a smaller number of bitcoins. A gamble on manufacturer, what they can do, will do, what their competitors will do, and the thing that really bothers me most...what other major but dark players are doing, which can all screw up the most enthusiastic research.
Someone on a podcast mentioned something that made me smile about bitcoin, the fact that in theory at least, you can walk across borders with your wealth in your head. Just by knowing your wallet details. Doesn't get safer or more convenient than that does it?

It's already been a wild ride, I don't think we've started yet. I think we now come to the really good bit. Adoption. Payday for all of us, the people who want cash, the people who want to change the world's financial systems and make them fairer, we'll all win.