[ANN][0.8.6] Hirocoin - X11 - NGW - Secured Blockchain - Time Warp Limitation

[tuvokcoin]

How does a coin protect itself from multipools then?

The only protection from multipools is a coin that does NOT decay exponentially in "reward", as more miners jump onto it. It does need to decay, but not exponentially with the exponential miners that it attracts.

The only other way around that, is to BUY what they DUMP. Since they are mining at a loss, it is a gain for you to buy them, as opposed to mining them. Multipools still have that illusion that they are "gaining", when the reality is, they are creating their own losses that they actually have. Takes people a while to realize they are losing in a multipool, except the few lazy ones who are just too stupid to realize they are being used.

P.S. No "dev" owns a coin. They may be the only ones releasing versions, but if it has no followers, and another dev releases a new version that has more followers, guess which dev-team will die-off. The one that stopped listening to the ones holding the coin, who are the "owners of the coin".

It doesn't matter who develops it. It only matters who uses it. Since devs are not the primary users, (if they are, then it is the devs coin), it is not the devs coin.

You think the devs will be around in 100 years, or 50... No, just like bitcoin and litecoin has had many many many devs. No-one owns bitcoin or litecoin.

That being said... You want this coin to go up in value, just buy some. Every coin you buy, lower than your highest coin, lowers your average that you paid. Eventually, at some point, you will have an average low enough to sell for a more reasonable price. Especially now that bitcoins is on a hike to $6000+ You get exponential rewards, if you do it right. There is no reason why Hiro can't be equally as valuable as DRK. (Not the same coin-value, as the rewards and coin-volumes are not the same.)

P.P.S. You don't buy coins at the top, to sell at the bottom... You buy coins in BULK at the bottom, to sell in BULK at the top. (Take a guess where Hiro is now, top or bottom? Hint: it's not at the top!)

These boards can be a bit frustrating. Much too much lowest common denominator thinking, baseless assumptions and truisms offered as insight. Or maybe you were just being sarcastic.

[equalizer]

Like Isawhim said, "No "dev" owns a coin. They may be the only ones releasing versions, but if it has no followers, and another dev releases a new version that has more followers, guess which dev-team will die-off."

Omar - I wonder if the last resort is the original Hiro team's refusal to make the changes the community is asking for and this refusal resulting in someone else releasing a new version of Hirocoin. If something like this were to happen, lots of people will be hurt, angry, and bitter. Why go there? There is no shame in Joerii or Hiro or anyone else saying - hey, we really had the best intentions for this coin, we thought our way was the best way, but maybe now is the time for the community to chime in. I think something like this takes major balls, and it would actually bring the community back together, working toward the same goal. We need to banish embarrassment and encourage bravery. Sometimes admitting that you (the general you) were wrong so now it's time to fix it - sometimes this can be cathartic and inspirational.

Everyone believed in Hiro from the start. I think it's safe to say that we would prefer Hiro to continue leading the dev effort, no matter what the community decides. But there has to be a willingness and an openness for any of this to work. Let's do everything we can to keep this coin from going below 100 sat and getting comfortable there.

[tuvokcoin]

The community can decide what to do with a common understanding of the issues. It is more complex than price. I would recommend we do a SWOT matrix to get on the same page.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SWOT_analysis

Internal Strengths
- strong and still active development team
- well designed coin with reliable operational track record

Internal Weaknesses
-interfacing with the community/lack of community influence ownership
-coin governance, direction, strategy
-profitable features that address market needs are not being identified (doesn't appear to be a roadmap)

External Threats
-price erosion through multipool dumping (oversupply)
-aggressive, active, highly motivated coin communities

External Opportunities
-many investors, and miners are not loyal so market share can be recaptured
-coin is still in its early stages so possible to hard fork without adverse market reactions (can't go much lower)
-miners "may" migrate toward cooler x11 coins

Many of you crypto-veterans may be more insightful so please add/enhance/clarify. If you can add value, it would help us all come to a consensus. At least it can help us think in a more structured way about Hiro.

[equalizer]

The community can decide what to do with a common understanding of the issues. It is more complex than price. I would recommend we do a SWOT matrix to get on the same page.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SWOT_analysis

Internal Strengths
- strong and still active development team
- well designed coin with reliable operational track record

Internal Weaknesses
-interfacing with the community/lack of community influence ownership
-coin governance, direction, strategy
-profitable features that address market needs are not being identified (doesn't appear to be a roadmap)
-the marketing and communication of what makes Hirocoin the x11 coin of choice

External Threats
-price erosion through multipool dumping (oversupply)
-aggressive, active, highly motivated coin communities
-new coins promising shiny new features (mostly hype, still a distraction)

External Opportunities
-many investors, and miners are not loyal so market share can be recaptured
-coin is still in its early stages so possible to hard fork without adverse market reactions (can't go much lower)
-miners "may" migrate toward cooler x11 coins

Many of you crypto-veterans may be more insightful so please add/enhance/clarify. If you can add value, it would help us all come to a consensus. At least it can help us think in a more structured way about Hiro.

This is great. I agree - it's much more than the coin price, but the price is a good indicator of the coin's health. It's a symptom of the larger problem, and what you did here will be helpful in identifying where the gaps and redundancies are, as well as (hopefully) allow us to gain consensus on what is not working/what needs to change.

[coinlighter]

The community can decide what to do with a common understanding of the issues. It is more complex than price. I would recommend we do a SWOT matrix to get on the same page.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SWOT_analysis

Internal Strengths
- strong and still active development team
- well designed coin with reliable operational track record

Internal Weaknesses
-interfacing with the community/lack of community influence ownership
-coin governance, direction, strategy
-profitable features that address market needs are not being identified (doesn't appear to be a roadmap)
-the marketing and communication of what makes Hirocoin the x11 coin of choice

External Threats
-price erosion through multipool dumping (oversupply)
-aggressive, active, highly motivated coin communities
-new coins promising shiny new features (mostly hype, still a distraction)

External Opportunities
-many investors, and miners are not loyal so market share can be recaptured
-coin is still in its early stages so possible to hard fork without adverse market reactions (can't go much lower)
-miners "may" migrate toward cooler x11 coins

Many of you crypto-veterans may be more insightful so please add/enhance/clarify. If you can add value, it would help us all come to a consensus. At least it can help us think in a more structured way about Hiro.

This is great. I agree - it's much more than the coin price, but the price is a good indicator of the coin's health. It's a symptom of the larger problem, and what you did here will be helpful in identifying where the gaps and redundancies are, as well as (hopefully) allow us to gain consensus on what is not working/what needs to change.

I agree with this list.
Of course it's not only the price. it's a volume that brings attention to the coin backed by strong(large) community and good developer team.
We have a good developer team nevertheless unwilling to hear the voice of the community but I hope the common sense will prevail.

[Enzwell]

I'm a little surprised that the fact that the Hirocoin dev is working on Darkcoin development with Evan hasn't helped to at least support the price and rep of Hiro. He's obviously a quality programmer and worker.

And I don't think that altering your approach to a goal is a bad thing. "Lessons learned" and all...

[crazyivan]

Hiro slowly going down is PRIMARILY due to Hiro team stubbornly refusing to accommodate suggestions of the community, mainly those related to the number of coins in existence. So be it, I will be selling all of my coins and I am out.

[oknast]

Hiro slowly going down is PRIMARILY due to Hiro team stubbornly refusing to accommodate suggestions of the community, mainly those related to the number of coins in existence. So be it, I will be selling all of my coins and I am out.

I will wait a week and then will sell all my Hiros, too.

[coinlighter]

Hiro slowly going down is PRIMARILY due to Hiro team stubbornly refusing to accommodate suggestions of the community, mainly those related to the number of coins in existence. So be it, I will be selling all of my coins and I am out.

I will wait a week and then will sell all my Hiros, too.

I will also wait a week or 2 and then I'm out too.
If the devs change their minds Hiro can be one of the most promising coins out there.

[equalizer]

It's pretty clear that the Joerii/Hirocoin team's ways aren't working - they haven't worked for a while. You guys are getting a vote of no confidence by the few people who even bother looking at this thread.

The question is, are you going to disappear, or are you going to man up, admit you were wrong and fix this?

[OmarGsPools]

The SWOT analysis brings up some good points. Rest assured that we are reading these comments and changes will be made to the ongoing development of Hirocoin.

I know that is a vague statement but I'll be able to go into more detail shortly.

[equalizer]

The SWOT analysis brings up some good points. Rest assured that we are reading these comments and changes will be made to the ongoing development of Hirocoin.

I know that is a vague statement but I'll be able to go into more detail shortly.

Thank you!!

[124C41]

We're going to need new wallets again.

There are new OpenSSL bugs that have been patched.

OpenSSL Security Advisory [05 Jun 2014]
http://www.openssl.org/news/secadv_20140605.txt

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/06/05/openssl_bug_batch/
http://www.engadget.com/2014/06/05/openssl-bug-man-in-the-middle/

[coinlighter]

The SWOT analysis brings up some good points. Rest assured that we are reading these comments and changes will be made to the ongoing development of Hirocoin.

I know that is a vague statement but I'll be able to go into more detail shortly.

Thank you for responding.
I will buy more Hiro just in case  

[Joerii]

Hi everyone,

I've been leading the Hirocoin community for a couple of months now. I've enjoyed it a lot and have learned new skills and sharpened existing ones.
My goal from the start was this: to organize a team and manage the community in such a way to make myself redundant as fast as possible. I always try to surround myself with people more skilled and more intelligent than myself.

For what feels like years, I've worked hard to set goals and objectives and keep everyone informed about what's going on. I've received a lot of really nice messages from supporters, as well as good feedback from even the most cynical troll 

Goodbye friends ! It's time for me to move on.

Omar has taken over my role as community manager. It's not an easy job, and I wish him goodluck

[Joerii]

The question is, are you going to disappear, or are you going to man up, admit you were wrong and fix this?

Hmm, Ok i'll  bite. One last time

I have an ethical compass that I follow. There is no such thing as "a little bit wrong" or "a little bit unethical" - "when your head is underwater, you drown". Im not changing my view of right and wrong because people ask me too.

The "fix" that a vocal minority ( and their sockpuppets ) keeps proposing is NOT a fix, messing with the inflation model is a short term bandaid that is going to cause more harm then good. Do some homework and look at other coins who have done this. Where are they now ? Nobody trusts them.  It's motivated by fear and greed, not wisdom. I rest my case.

If there truly was a majority of investors/speculators who wanted that and demanded it, I would have resigned from the team because of that.

Hiros are smarter than that though, and it's not the reason I'm handing over management of the forums and PR to Omar.

The simple reason that Hirocoin price is low is twofold : other coins are stealing the limelight because they are new and exciting, and altcoins have been in a decline for a while now. Simple as that. Every coin faces this. When BTC reaches it's peak and subsequently starts dropping,promising altcoins are going to go up, Hirocoin included. You may quote me on that.

Hirocoin either takes back it's place in the limelight or wait for more attention for altcoins in general.

[fedmahnkassad]

The question is, are you going to disappear, or are you going to man up, admit you were wrong and fix this?

Hmm, Ok i'll  bite. One last time

I have an ethical compass that I follow. There is no such thing as "a little bit wrong" or "a little bit unethical" - "when your head is underwater, you drown". Im not changing my view of right and wrong because people ask me too.

The "fix" that a vocal minority ( and their sockpuppets ) keeps proposing is NOT a fix, messing with the inflation model is a short term bandaid that is going to cause more harm then good. Do some homework and look at other coins who have done this. Where are they now ? Nobody trusts them.  It's motivated by fear and greed, not wisdom. I rest my case.

If there truly was a majority of investors/speculators who wanted that and demanded it, I would have resigned from the team because of that.

Hiros are smarter than that though, and it's not the reason I'm handing over management of the forums and PR to Omar.

The simple reason that Hirocoin price is low is twofold : other coins are stealing the limelight because they are new and exciting, and altcoins have been in a decline for a while now. Simple as that. Every coin faces this. When BTC reaches it's peak and subsequently starts dropping,promising altcoins are going to go up, Hirocoin included. You may quote me on that.

Hirocoin either takes back it's place in the limelight or wait for more attention for altcoins in general.

You might have to wait a little bit before BTC reaches it's peak, like 7+ years or more if ever.

[equalizer]

The question is, are you going to disappear, or are you going to man up, admit you were wrong and fix this?

Hmm, Ok i'll  bite. One last time

I have an ethical compass that I follow. There is no such thing as "a little bit wrong" or "a little bit unethical" - "when your head is underwater, you drown". Im not changing my view of right and wrong because people ask me too.

The "fix" that a vocal minority ( and their sockpuppets ) keeps proposing is NOT a fix, messing with the inflation model is a short term bandaid that is going to cause more harm then good. Do some homework and look at other coins who have done this. Where are they now ? Nobody trusts them.  It's motivated by fear and greed, not wisdom. I rest my case.

If there truly was a majority of investors/speculators who wanted that and demanded it, I would have resigned from the team because of that.

Hiros are smarter than that though, and it's not the reason I'm handing over management of the forums and PR to Omar.

The simple reason that Hirocoin price is low is twofold : other coins are stealing the limelight because they are new and exciting, and altcoins have been in a decline for a while now. Simple as that. Every coin faces this. When BTC reaches it's peak and subsequently starts dropping,promising altcoins are going to go up, Hirocoin included. You may quote me on that.

Hirocoin either takes back it's place in the limelight or wait for more attention for altcoins in general.

Here's the thing, Joerii. I think it's in poor taste that you refer to any of Hiro's community members as "sockpuppets" simply on the basis that you don't agree with what we have to say. That right there demonstrates your lack of professionalism, no matter how much you like to label yourself as a professional.

As far as ethics, you have every right to voice your ethics. The disconnect with putting your personal beliefs ahead of those of the community is what I've been calling out to you. You are supposed to be the voice of the community, even the voice of the minority or the unpopular, because we ALL belong to this community. What we've witnessed you doing is banishing those who didn't see things your way by saying we were simply wrong. Time and time again, it felt like you were not the voice of the community, but the voice of yourself primarily. I'm sure that feels incredibly unfair, but that is how it came across to me, regardless of your intent. Many of us, whether we're in the minority or the majority, have felt that you've been running the show with a "you're either with me or you're against me" type of tone. This is why I left the Hiro thread for over a month - I couldn't stand this type of leadership, especially when I earnestly invested several BTCs into Hiro and naively believed you and your team members would represent our collective voices.

The price of Hirocoin continuously falling has many reasons. Everyone has their opinion on the causes and everyone thinks they have the answer. This is why I suggested we vote. It's true, it's not only Hirocoin dropping in value - several other coins are experiencing this. But there are also coins that have successfully bounced back after making critical changes to their original plan and you know this. We all know this, so to say that it's because we've lost the limelight or that all altcoins have been in a decline seems inaccurate and a bit of a cop out.

And yes, when BTC reaches its next impressive peak and we have many new BTC bagholders wanting out of BTC to trade in alts, many many altcoin prices will go up. We've seen this time and again after every BTC hike, so that really has very little to do with Hirocoin specifically and has even less to do with how you chose to manage this coin up to this point. And why sit around and wait for the BTC hike/fall to affect the trajectory of Hirocoin when we can act now to try and make it the premiere X11 coin we all initially believed it could be? Seems lazy to just wait for new BTC holders to do all the work when an intelligent community can come together and be better than other depreciating alts, sooner than later.

Regardless of our differences, thanks for your long hours and trying to do what you believed was right for the coin. The next time you lead a coin, please consider how important it is to represent us ALL and to nurture all ideas and see them through as if they were your own, even if they go against your own ethics or strategy. Like you said, being a community leader is not an easy job, and I agree with you on that completely. See? We can actually agree on something. Are pigs flying somewhere? Is the fat lady singing? Have the cows come home? Is someone blue in the face?

[Joerii]

The question is, are you going to disappear, or are you going to man up, admit you were wrong and fix this?

Hmm, Ok i'll  bite. One last time

I have an ethical compass that I follow. There is no such thing as "a little bit wrong" or "a little bit unethical" - "when your head is underwater, you drown". Im not changing my view of right and wrong because people ask me too.

The "fix" that a vocal minority ( and their sockpuppets ) keeps proposing is NOT a fix, messing with the inflation model is a short term bandaid that is going to cause more harm then good. Do some homework and look at other coins who have done this. Where are they now ? Nobody trusts them.  It's motivated by fear and greed, not wisdom. I rest my case.

If there truly was a majority of investors/speculators who wanted that and demanded it, I would have resigned from the team because of that.

Hiros are smarter than that though, and it's not the reason I'm handing over management of the forums and PR to Omar.

The simple reason that Hirocoin price is low is twofold : other coins are stealing the limelight because they are new and exciting, and altcoins have been in a decline for a while now. Simple as that. Every coin faces this. When BTC reaches it's peak and subsequently starts dropping,promising altcoins are going to go up, Hirocoin included. You may quote me on that.

Hirocoin either takes back it's place in the limelight or wait for more attention for altcoins in general.

Here's the thing, Joerii. I think it's in poor taste that you refer to any of Hiro's community members as "sockpuppets" simply on the basis that you don't agree with what we have to say.

You're putting words in my mouth. I didn't say they are sockpuppets because I don't agree with what they say.Are you familiar with the term "sockpuppet" ? It's an account made for the soul purpose of agreeing or disagreeing with someone. They are usually easy to spot because they post super low content posts and typically have low post counts.

What is a "member of the community" ? Someone who think they can get rich quick by buying an altcoin ? Someone who thinks they have a say in the direction of a coin because they bought $50 worth ? Or the people who spend months of their lives coming up with plans, connecting with other teams, sacrificing time they could have spent with their families ? Someone like you who comes into this thread and takes the time and effort to explain their thoughts ? There are shades of grey, but some people in this community CARE and put in effort, and others only want to make a quick buck, to hell with the future of Hirocoin.


As for my professionalism ; I'm now speaking solely for myself, no longer as a spokesman for Hirocoin.

What we've witnessed you doing is banishing those who didn't see things your way by saying we were simply wrong.

What ? Were ? When ? Please quote me where I did that. One thing I always try to take care of is not rejecting people, but only tell them where I disagree with their standpoints or ideas. As far as I know, I've always said "We think" or "I feel that..." Never : "YOU ARE".
I'd like to think my communication skills are better then banishing people for saying what they think. If I really did that, I truly regret that and didn't mean too. I too am capable of being a dick though.    Kindly point out where I was, if you can.

Like you said, being a community leader is not an easy job, and I agree with you on that completely. See? We can actually agree on something. Are pigs flying somewhere? Is the fat lady singing? Have the cows come home? Is someone blue in the face? Wink

Lol, thanks

Leading is hard because you have to make unpopular choices. If I had bent to every whim ( and get the rest of the team behind those choices !), we'd have a hardfork every two weeks, had pure PoS, 1000% interest per day AND coins somehow disapearing at the same time to deflate supply. Oh, and we'd have a casino, pay hookers with Hirocoin, have a harddrugs market place, and basically we'd be Darkcoin with a different name.

We need to have vision, limit ourselves  to what we think  is the right thing, or you're lost and without direction at all.

[coinlighter]

The question is, are you going to disappear, or are you going to man up, admit you were wrong and fix this?

Hmm, Ok i'll  bite. One last time

I have an ethical compass that I follow. There is no such thing as "a little bit wrong" or "a little bit unethical" - "when your head is underwater, you drown". Im not changing my view of right and wrong because people ask me too.

The "fix" that a vocal minority ( and their sockpuppets ) keeps proposing is NOT a fix, messing with the inflation model is a short term bandaid that is going to cause more harm then good. Do some homework and look at other coins who have done this. Where are they now ? Nobody trusts them.  It's motivated by fear and greed, not wisdom. I rest my case.

If there truly was a majority of investors/speculators who wanted that and demanded it, I would have resigned from the team because of that.

Hiros are smarter than that though, and it's not the reason I'm handing over management of the forums and PR to Omar.

The simple reason that Hirocoin price is low is twofold : other coins are stealing the limelight because they are new and exciting, and altcoins have been in a decline for a while now. Simple as that. Every coin faces this. When BTC reaches it's peak and subsequently starts dropping,promising altcoins are going to go up, Hirocoin included. You may quote me on that.

Hirocoin either takes back it's place in the limelight or wait for more attention for altcoins in general.

Here's the thing, Joerii. I think it's in poor taste that you refer to any of Hiro's community members as "sockpuppets" simply on the basis that you don't agree with what we have to say.

You're putting words in my mouth. I didn't say they are sockpuppets because I don't agree with what they say.Are you familiar with the term "sockpuppet" ? It's an account made for the soul purpose of agreeing or disagreeing with someone. They are usually easy to spot because they post super low content posts and typically have low post counts.

What is a "member of the community" ? Someone who think they can get rich quick by buying an altcoin ? Someone who thinks they have a say in the direction of a coin because they bought $50 worth ? Or the people who spend months of their lives coming up with plans, connecting with other teams, sacrificing time they could have spent with their families ? Someone like you who comes into this thread and takes the time and effort to explain their thoughts ? There are shades of grey, but some people in this community CARE and put in effort, and others only want to make a quick buck, to hell with the future of Hirocoin.


As for my professionalism ; I'm now speaking solely for myself, no longer as a spokesman for Hirocoin.

What we've witnessed you doing is banishing those who didn't see things your way by saying we were simply wrong.

What ? Were ? When ? Please quote me where I did that. One thing I always try to take care of is not rejecting people, but only tell them where I disagree with their standpoints or ideas. As far as I know, I've always said "We think" or "I feel that..." Never : "YOU ARE".
I'd like to think my communication skills are better then banishing people for saying what they think. If I really did that, I truly regret that and didn't mean too. I too am capable of being a dick though.    Kindly point out where I was, if you can.

Like you said, being a community leader is not an easy job, and I agree with you on that completely. See? We can actually agree on something. Are pigs flying somewhere? Is the fat lady singing? Have the cows come home? Is someone blue in the face? Wink

Lol, thanks

Leading is hard because you have to make unpopular choices. If I had bent to every whim ( and get the rest of the team behind those choices !), we'd have a hardfork every two weeks, had pure PoS, 1000% interest per day AND coins somehow disapearing at the same time to deflate supply. Oh, and we'd have a casino, pay hookers with Hirocoin, have a harddrugs market place, and basically we'd be Darkcoin with a different name.

We need to have vision, limit ourselves  to what we think  is the right thing, or you're lost and without direction at all.

Am I right in thinking that you were referring to me with that? cause there is no one except me in here that falls under your description with low post count.
If you have noticed my account was created way before most in this thread and Hiro didn't existed back then.