Has DeepSeek burst the US tech bubble?

[STT]

Bubble suggests it was never feasible, ie. a collapse like a bubble that can never rebuild when popped.   Its not quite that severe, we are talking about normal process here.

Capitalism has competition and ultimately the idea is by having open market places you obtain the best product, most efficiently made and cheapest to deliver to the most people.   Bidding on higher prices might be liked by traders but the product is for the people who use it and they want the lowest price, this dynamic is seen in all (normal) markets and the reset is totally normal.

  Nvidia will recover as I understand it and they might have even expected to receive various attempts by other companies against their production.    Not everything Nvidia does will be perfect or succeed and I believe they are quite ready to deal with that.

 The tech industry will likely be just fine, the products are valid and represent growth.  It could take years or more for investors to be happy with gains but thats the burden and risk they take.  Anyone who remembers the 90's tech boom and collapse will chuckle about the fears now.

I don't think that's a good thing.

Efficiency and choice is a good thing.  The personal touch we can relate back 120 years to the arts and crafts movement, the fallout from industrialisation and mass production.  People always have valued the real touch of humans hand working a product, the little variations and skill is admirable.   But cheap often wins, the falling wages I agree with but also its government to blame imo; the benefits of technology have not made people poorer so I could never believe that personally.

[Zwei]

That’s the competition right there. The US won’t let China get ahead, especially in terms of technology, because they’re both heavily invested in it. In fact, when it comes to quantum computing, China has reportedly invested even more than the US. The race is intense, and neither side wants to fall behind.

https://itif.org/publications/2024/09/09/how-innovative-is-china-in-quantum/

China claims over $15 billion in public quantum funding, far outpacing the United States. While U.S. private funding is higher, China offsets its private sector shortfall with massive public investment.

wtf are you talking about? do you know the difference between quantum computing and AI chatbots?

Artificial intelligence is already being used in several areas and improving productivity a lot

That's an interesting one: what's the point of increasing productivity if it only makes a few people much richer? I'm thinking of this graph:

(source) (there are newer versions of this graph, but the ones I found don't work through the forum's image proxy)

I know one thing: that's not making your country any better! It leads to "the working poor", while some people get richer than anyone has ever been before. So if productivity keeps going up but more and more people have a hard time in affording the basics like housing and even groceries, something's not right. And I don't think AI is going to make that any better.

not to mention, it's not like people will start working fewer hours as a result of the improved productivity. they say AI will allow us to free up more time to focus on what truly matters, but we know the world doesn't work like that.
the corporate overlords will just give people more work that the AI can't do to squeeze more profit to make the rich even more richer.

Capitalism has competition and ultimately the idea is by having open market places you obtain the best product, most efficiently made and cheapest to deliver to the most people.   Bidding on higher prices might be liked by traders but the product is for the people who use it and they want the lowest price, this dynamic is seen in all (normal) markets and the reset is totally normal.

the US loves capitalism and the free market until they are on the losing end of it. then it's unfair, and accuse other economies of not playing by the "free market" rules, start slapping tariffs and banning companies under the excuse of national security.
would not be surprised if they ban deepseek for the same reason.

Nvidia will recover as I understand it and they might have even expected to receive various attempts by other companies against their production.    Not everything Nvidia does will be perfect or succeed and I believe they are quite ready to deal with that.

i agree, nvidia will be just fine. after all they are the ones selling the shovels in the AI gold rush.

[bias]

According to the news I read, it was stated that you can get the app for free.

That's true and wonderful. Big congrats to Liang Wenfeng for proving that things can (and will have) be different.

As a result, Nvidia is currently down 17% in today's session, and the Nasdaq is down 3.32%. As you may have noticed it has affected the markets in general and also bitcoin and cryptocurrencies which are also trading down today.

All the American AI providers/involvement companies with their closed-source codes and monopoly, have a guy that puts the glasses on their eyes. Too bad for them, not for us.

My business is with bitcoin.

The End.

[Ambatman]

I believe something was sacrificed for such efficiency. The difference is mind-blowing
And it seems like US and China has taken their war into AI's.
Recovery is still in the table
Competitions like this either break you or makes you and the users enjoy it.
Haven't used ChatGpt so can't really tell the difference.

[Abiky]

I don't know if you've heard by now, but today's dip is mainly because DeepSeek, a Chinese artificial intelligence company has developed an open-source artificial intelligence model that some say works better than ChatGPT and other US AIs, and more importantly, does it for a fraction of the cost. This comes shortly after the US announced a $500B investment in AI.

The tech bubble has been behind the success of Nvidia, the world's most profitable company until MicroStrategy came into play. These companies, many of which have AI projects, have caused a huge demand for hardware that with the success of DeepSeek is now in doubt as to whether it will continue to be needed.

As a result, Nvidia is currently down 17% in today's session, and the Nasdaq is down 3.32%. As you may have noticed it has affected the markets in general and also bitcoin and cryptocurrencies which are also trading down today.

Here is an article on the subject: Why Is DeepSeek Sinking Nvidia Stock?

What do you think about it?

China has long been ahead of the AI game. Ever since Joe Biden became President of the United States, the country has been taking one step backwards. Not anymore. President Trump recently approved a billion USD funding for AI development. The project called "Stargate", is composed of several tech companies (one of them is OpenAI) aimed to boost the development of AI within the US. If successful, it could position the country as the leading force of the AI industry. America First, right? Otherwise, you can say "bye-bye" to US tech supremacy for good.

As far as stock prices go, I'd say it's a lucky guess. Maybe, just maybe, Nvidia's stock market price will be able to bounce back to its original levels. Assuming the company comes up with something that will "blow" this DeepSeek hype out of the water. The future is unpredictable, so I can only hope for the best.

[Free Market Capitalist]

Maybe I'm getting old, but I see more and more human interaction being replaced by machines, and I don't think that's a good thing. Personal contact is replaced by messages on a screen, paying in shops is replaced by doing it yourself on a machine, working from home through machines, getting cash from machines, the list goes on and on.

Like yourself for the last 10 years on this forum, you mean?

That's an interesting one: what's the point of increasing productivity if it only makes a few people much richer? I'm thinking of this graph:

(source) (there are newer versions of this graph, but the ones I found don't work through the forum's image proxy)

I know one thing: that's not making your country any better! It leads to "the working poor", while some people get richer than anyone has ever been before. So if productivity keeps going up but more and more people have a hard time in affording the basics like housing and even groceries, something's not right. And I don't think AI is going to make that any better.

To begin with, a poor person in 1964 was much poorer than a poor person in 2025, who has more access to much better goods and services.

Also, I would not put the beginning in 1964, but rather in 1971, which is where money became completely fiat, a system which led to the creation of bitcoin as an opposition.

I'm not willing to accept our machine overlords

They are as overlords as you internet connexion, your cell phone and your bitcoin.

the US loves capitalism and the free market until they are on the losing end of it. then it's unfair, and accuse other economies of not playing by the "free market" rules, start slapping tariffs and banning companies under the excuse of national security.
would not be surprised if they ban deepseek for the same reason.

The USA is not a static country. Biden was a socialist who pushed his country further and further away from the free market, while Trump is already introducing measures in the opposite direction.

[Yucky]

A lot of 2024 end-of-year predictions stated that AI would be taken to a different level this year. It's only been January, and yes, a lot is happening already in the tech and AI space. So, I'm actually here for it. Aside from DeepSeek, you're going to see more AI innovations coming up. One thing I notice about DeepSeek is the way they position themselves at the moment. Because it's still AI tool, it still writes like ChatGPT.

Just that it's more open-source, and they're giving more features on the free version of it for starters. According to reports, they built it to provide solutions in faster time and they conserved resources for building it. But let's just keep our minds open that this year, we're going to be seeing a lot AI innovations and improvements. We're going to see top companies battling each other for the top spot.

[Ziskinberg]

That’s the competition right there. The US won’t let China get ahead, especially in terms of technology, because they’re both heavily invested in it. In fact, when it comes to quantum computing, China has reportedly invested even more than the US. The race is intense, and neither side wants to fall behind.

https://itif.org/publications/2024/09/09/how-innovative-is-china-in-quantum/

China claims over $15 billion in public quantum funding, far outpacing the United States. While U.S. private funding is higher, China offsets its private sector shortfall with massive public investment.

wtf are you talking about? do you know the difference between quantum computing and AI chatbots?

Nah, you’re not getting my point. I fully understand that these are different technologies. What I’m saying is that China has poured massive investments into tech, so it’s not surprising that their AI version of ChatGPT, DeepSeek, is shaking up the industry.

I just mentioned quantum computing because the U.S. has been developing it too, but as I pointed out, China is also making huge moves in that space, with even bigger investments.

[LoyceV]

Like yourself for the last 10 years on this forum, you mean?

The irony of my post wasn't lost on me. I didn't realize it at first (say when I joined Bitcointalk), but it's becoming more and more obvious. And I didn't only mean on this forum. Back to the doctor you mentioned: if I call my GP, I get an answering machine. If I call my pharmacist, I get an answeringmachine. Both machines are referring me to their website or an app, both machines are telling me they're short-staffed.
That brings me to the next thing: despite the higher productivity and despite replacing human interaction by machine interaction, there's still a shortage of workers everywhere in my country. How is that even possible? I'd say the main cause is because labor is too cheap, and most people don't benefit from the increased productivity. That gives whoever benefits from this the incentive to get more people to work more.

To begin with, a poor person in 1964 was much poorer than a poor person in 2025, who has more access to much better goods and services.

I don't think "poor people" are a good starting point for this discussion. "The poor" in my country get money from many different government programs. It's the working middle class I'm most worried about.
Goods got much cheaper, services got much more expensive. That's why it's often cheaper to replace a product instead of repairing it. But we also need more goods: there used to be one phone in a household, and it used to last forever.

Also, I would not put the beginning in 1964, but rather in 1971, which is where money became completely fiat, a system which led to the creation of bitcoin as an opposition.

Agreed. I've seen graphs going back further before 1964, which makes it even more obvious there was a tipping point in 1971.

[Lucius]

It was inevitable that something like this would happen, because for the past few years there have been rumors circulating that China is much further along in AI development than anyone else in the world, and now it's obvious that this is true. I don't see how the US, and especially the EU, can compete with China on this issue at this moment, not only in that field but in all other technological fields.

In recent months, I have noticed the increasing appearance of advertisements for Chinese vehicles on my national televisions, along with of course the ever-present Chinese smartphones that are taking an ever-increasing share of the world market. Whatever one thinks about the Chinese, the fact is that they are like bees on steroids and do not show the slightest sign of slowing down - the question is how to compete with a country that has raised communism to a completely new level in which they are beginning to behave as one big collective consciousness (something like SF Borg).

[virasog]

It's too early to say if Deepseek is able to break the dominance of US in the tech market or not. I have started using this chatbot since last 1 day after the news broke out and I find it amazing. This chatbot is not only giving you the answers but also showing the logic it is using being it's answer. It is really a game changer to be honest. But it not something super exclusive that other AI companies won't be able to implement.

Well while your analysis may be true but my experience is a little bit different. When I enable the search function it usually says "The Server is busy. Please try again later". Sometimes the queries take a lot of time to process. I think these delays are because everyone is using this free service as DeepSeek doesn't have a paid version. Let's see how things turn out after some time. If the speed improves and it remains free to use, it will be a big help to the World.

[moneystery]

....
What do you think about it?

as someone who has been using deepseek for the past few days, i can understand why the american market is worried about a competitor like deepseek. they are simply amazing at developing this ai with a much cheaper investment compared to what chatgpt or other big ai players have spent. deepseek is really shaking up the market with their platform and showing the world that AI technology can actually be developed better and at a much lower cost than what is currently available in the industry, and maybe this will change the direction of the ai ​​industry in the future.

[Free Market Capitalist]

as someone who has been using deepseek for the past few days, i can understand why the american market is worried about a competitor like deepseek. they are simply amazing at developing this ai with a much cheaper investment compared to what chatgpt or other big ai players have spent. deepseek is really shaking up the market with their platform and showing the world that AI technology can actually be developed better and at a much lower cost than what is currently available in the industry, and maybe this will change the direction of the ai ​​industry in the future.

I'm more interested to know about this, as I tried it for a bit and uninstalled it because you can't talk to it to begin with. Can you upload pictures? Have you tried ChatGPT as well for comparison?

[Zwei]

as someone who has been using deepseek for the past few days, i can understand why the american market is worried about a competitor like deepseek. they are simply amazing at developing this ai with a much cheaper investment compared to what chatgpt or other big ai players have spent. deepseek is really shaking up the market with their platform and showing the world that AI technology can actually be developed better and at a much lower cost than what is currently available in the industry, and maybe this will change the direction of the ai ​​industry in the future.

I'm more interested to know about this, as I tried it for a bit and uninstalled it because you can't talk to it to begin with. Can you upload pictures? Have you tried ChatGPT as well for comparison?

it's only text or text extracted from images for now, no voice talk or pictures.
i used chatgpt and deepseek, and they are not that different imo, although from the benchmarks i saw, deepseek is slightly better.

the reason deepseek is getting all this attention causing a $1 trillion stock crash is because it's cheap to run, you can run it on a variety of hardware, not just nvidia cards and it's open source (kinda).
if a company uses gpt-o1, they need to trust open ai with their data, and they are basicly just renting the AI. but now, they have the option to run a similarly performing model in-house without worying about data leaks and for a fraction of what they would have paid open AI.

[Hispo]

There is quite high chances Nvidia will be able to recover from this news and continue to be near their peak, in my opinion. Only for the fact of this code and WI technology to come from China, would be enough for authorities in the United States to start to regulate it and try to push forward USA AI instead of allowing Chinese competitors within the American market.
The part of being open source certainly helps Deep seek much to battle giants of this industry, as opens a world of possibilities with the fork of his code by American and software engineers whose works could also be open to anyone to audit, copy and distribute (if the government does not make an exception for this AI model).
If this AI would have been released as close source, it would have never had the same impact it had against Wall Street.

[WillyAp]

nVidia was overbought, as mindrust said, but it could've remained that way still for a long time if nobody changed the game.

Yup and it makes it clear there is too much money around, its just in the wrong hands.
The class making an economy work is the lower end.
A wealthy person can only consume that much.

In regards to DeepSeek we should all thanks Meta. Meta made its source code open source.

[danadc]

I think the main reason why Deepseek is better is because it has open source and you can program to exchange with AI, and the main thing is the price compared to CHAGPT, ChatGPT has an approximate price of almost 58eur, and Deepseek of almost 3Eur, and that DeepSeeek has a Deepthink function which is a functionality that makes problem solving faster and almost like a human can do it.

[el kaka22]

I always love it whenever people just hype stuff that are not even remotely where they think it is. Everyone keeps talking about deepseek as it's something that can beat openAI right now, but it is not. Yeah there is a big investment difference, there is no doubt about that, but that 500 billion investment to openAI hasn't happened yet, not going to happen all at once neither, so what openAI has right now is all the investments they had so far.

Plus, they are still far greater than DeepSeek in almost every metric as well. Not to even consider about the whole deepseek official version being literally censored by China too, there are proves of it so far. Unless you download and run on your own machine of course. Believe me, this isn't as close as you think, and US tech bubble will do fine, USA will take the AI war lead by a big margin and won't give up anytime soon, and you are not going to get any other nation get close, not for a long time.

[Abiky]

It was inevitable that something like this would happen, because for the past few years there have been rumors circulating that China is much further along in AI development than anyone else in the world, and now it's obvious that this is true. I don't see how the US, and especially the EU, can compete with China on this issue at this moment, not only in that field but in all other technological fields.

In recent months, I have noticed the increasing appearance of advertisements for Chinese vehicles on my national televisions, along with of course the ever-present Chinese smartphones that are taking an ever-increasing share of the world market. Whatever one thinks about the Chinese, the fact is that they are like bees on steroids and do not show the slightest sign of slowing down - the question is how to compete with a country that has raised communism to a completely new level in which they are beginning to behave as one big collective consciousness (something like SF Borg).

It should only be a matter of time before China becomes the largest superpower in the world. I mean, the US created this "monster". And now it's too late to do anything about it. At this point, I doubt the US will be able to catch up with China in terms of AI supremacy. But who knows? With US President Donald Trump announcing a federal funding program for AI-based tech companies, anything's possible.

Let's see how long will the "Deepseek hype" last. If it doesn't go away, that means China already won. Will this mean "goodbye" for OpenAI? Only time will tell...

[Darker45]

It troubles me a bit that China is fast catching up. It might even be ahead in some other areas. I think the noise coming from China is bringing some truths that shouldn't be easily brushed off.

China is making great strides. The response should be competition, not cancellation. It seems the western supremacy's tendency to just discount right away China's capabilities and brilliance won't do them any good. There's no more stopping the red dragon now. The US can't just use their geopolitical muscles against factual technological advancements in the communist regime.

It's about time arrogance should be set aside and begin to work and compete. If the response is simply ban Huawei, ban Zoom, ban Tiktok, and so on, block this and that Chinese company, heavily tax this and that Chinese product, criticize this and that Chinese innovation, and so forth without providing a better alternative, I'm afraid China will eventually win.