BYD - the new Evergrande, but in the automotive market ?

[Iranus]

Perhaps the vehicles produced may lack competition for now, but if EV’s become widespread in the future, China will get its share.

No, China is even leading the global electric vehicle industry thanks to its diverse models and competitive prices, from low to high segments, which can meet all user needs.

According to the IEA, by 2024, total electric vehicle sales by Chinese automakers reach more than 11 million vehicles, accounting for 55% of the global market share. Meanwhile, revenue from US companies sold only 1.9 million vehicles and accounted for 10% of the global market.

China is outperforming all because its diversity and scale of production allow they to reach a wider range of customers rather than just focusing on the upper class like US companies are pursuing.


https://www.iea.org/reports/global-ev-outlook-2025/executive-summary

[dezoel]

China is even leading the global electric vehicle industry thanks to its diverse models and competitive prices, from low to high segments, which can meet all user needs.

According to the IEA, by 2024, total electric vehicle sales by Chinese automakers reach more than 11 million vehicles, accounting for 55% of the global market share. Meanwhile, revenue from US companies sold only 1.9 million vehicles and accounted for 10% of the global market.

China is outperforming all because its diversity and scale of production allow they to reach a wider range of customers rather than just focusing on the upper class like US companies are pursuing.

It's the revenue that matters in this case, not the number of cars sold. Because BYD obviously and as a strategy, sells for very cheap. For example, they have a model that is like 16-17k dollars here, whereas tesla is 40k dollars, so they need basically twice as many sales as Tesla to make the same revenue at the very least.

And they are doing much worse when it  comes to revenue. They are selling 55% of the cars, but how much of the revenue are they making? I can tell you that a lot less. That is literally why they are getting subsidies from the government, Chinese party keeps them alive, by paying them to stay alive. Not that they are doing terrible, of course they are making money, I just mean, they are not run like any other company, they are like one nations whole government backed company, so it makes sense how they can survive.

[Iranus]

It's the revenue that matters in this case, not the number of cars sold. Because BYD obviously and as a strategy, sells for very cheap. For example, they have a model that is like 16-17k dollars here, whereas tesla is 40k dollars, so they need basically twice as many sales as Tesla to make the same revenue at the very least.

And they are doing much worse when it  comes to revenue. They are selling 55% of the cars, but how much of the revenue are they making? I can tell you that a lot less. That is literally why they are getting subsidies from the government, Chinese party keeps them alive, by paying them to stay alive. Not that they are doing terrible, of course they are making money, I just mean, they are not run like any other company, they are like one nations whole government backed company, so it makes sense how they can survive.

Wrong, revenue is important in every business, not just the electric vehicle market.

You are also wrong in saying that Tesla's revenue is higher than BYD's or that BYD needs to sell twice as many cars to have the same revenue as Tesla. In 2024, BYD's revenue is $102 billion, up more than 29% from 2023. Meanwhile, Tesla's revenue is $97 billion, down 1,1% from 2023. BYD is doing very well, not as bad as you think.

Yes, BYD receives support from the Chinese government. But what about Tesla? They also get a lot of incentives from the US government but that will soon end because with Trump's 'One Big Beautiful Bill', the US government will cuts off funding to Tesla. That would make things more difficult for Tesla in the future, and that's why Musk turned his back on Trump.


https://www.cnbc.com/2025/03/25/ev-giant-byd-outpaces-tesla-with-annual-sales-of-over-100-billion.html

[doomloop]

It's the revenue that matters in this case, not the number of cars sold. Because BYD obviously and as a strategy, sells for very cheap. For example, they have a model that is like 16-17k dollars here, whereas tesla is 40k dollars, so they need basically twice as many sales as Tesla to make the same revenue at the very least.

And they are doing much worse when it  comes to revenue. They are selling 55% of the cars, but how much of the revenue are they making? I can tell you that a lot less. That is literally why they are getting subsidies from the government, Chinese party keeps them alive, by paying them to stay alive. Not that they are doing terrible, of course they are making money, I just mean, they are not run like any other company, they are like one nations whole government backed company, so it makes sense how they can survive.

Wrong, revenue is important in every business, not just the electric vehicle market.

You are also wrong in saying that Tesla's revenue is higher than BYD's or that BYD needs to sell twice as many cars to have the same revenue as Tesla. In 2024, BYD's revenue is $102 billion, up more than 29% from 2023. Meanwhile, Tesla's revenue is $97 billion, down 1,1% from 2023. BYD is doing very well, not as bad as you think.

Yes, BYD receives support from the Chinese government. But what about Tesla? They also get a lot of incentives from the US government but that will soon end because with Trump's 'One Big Beautiful Bill', the US government will cuts off funding to Tesla. That would make things more difficult for Tesla in the future, and that's why Musk turned his back on Trump.

While I hate Elon Musk and even dislike tesla cars, I have to say, there are few different parts about this that I would argue against. First of all, we talked about cars sold, and we are seeing even in these numbers, Tesla seems only a small part behind, how could tesla sell so fewer cars, and be nearly exactly the same?

Secondly, that 102 number comes from China, and I have a suspicion about whatever comes out of China, I do not believe they sold that many cars, I also do not believe they made that much revenue, I do not have any proof, but I am sure they do not have a proof neither, they are just writing numbers, who can argue against it? And more importantly, China literally covers the losses for BYD whenever they made it, whereas Tesla only gets subsidies in the form of tax cuts, they did not receive free money.

[mikel_012]

In Brazil BYD is starting to grow very strongly. The only reason why they are not the top 1 right now is that people still don't fully trust eletric cars because they need to travel between states and Brazil is huge, so recharging can be a pain. As more charging stations are installed, I think we are ready for a huge surprise from BYD.

When comparing a BYD Dolphin Mini which is the Seagul in China, they cost R$ 110k and offer a lot of tech and quality components. For the same price you have a Kwid which is a car of plastic without any extras. Big difference

A few months ago I saw one or two dolphin mini every week, now I see at least 5 per day.

[DrBeer]

1. That's really true—it's very foolish to measure only quantitative sales indicators. You need to understand what business is and how it works, what revenue, profit, margin, and so on are... And as soon as you start to understand these “nuances” and are honest with yourself, taking all the nuances into account, BYD's “superiority” begins to melt away before your eyes.
2. The second indicator of problems at BYD is some kind of fairy-tale marketing programs, such as lifetime warranties and other solutions that, from the point of view of car reliability, do not correspond to reality (more on this later), but create the illusion of “reliability” and “customer care.” Simply put, no one would push a technologically reliable, competitive car onto the market, as the costs of providing such services are very high.
3. Quality. Everything looks pretty good in a new car. BYD is well represented in Ukraine, with several dealers. But while everything is fine at the point of sale, it's not so good in use. According to the owners I've spoken to, the cars can be summed up as “Yes, relatively inexpensive, not bad, but only for a short period of time.” I understand that no one buys a car these days with the intention of passing it on to their grandchildren I am a car owner myself and have changed several cars in my life. Now I have two cars that have proven their reliability: a Toyota RAV4 and a Ford Escape. Before buying my second car, I was considering purchasing an “electric car from China.” Based on my analysis of the market and manufacturers, I decided not to buy a BYD.
But when you realize that after 2-3 years you start having systemic problems, you are forced to look for a replacement. Provided that the car you have is not liquid on the secondary market and has lost a huge part of its value. The question is, would I buy one? No. I don't want my car to have a “lifetime warranty” and the same lifetime repair cycle when I can't use it...

As we can see, BYD's goal is to sell as many cars as possible at ANY PRICE in order to avoid collapsing from overproduction and stay afloat, because a giant company has huge maintenance costs, and at a certain point, even a “caring government” won't be able to help it...

[Iranus]

While I hate Elon Musk and even dislike tesla cars, I have to say, there are few different parts about this that I would argue against. First of all, we talked about cars sold, and we are seeing even in these numbers, Tesla seems only a small part behind, how could tesla sell so fewer cars, and be nearly exactly the same?

Secondly, that 102 number comes from China, and I have a suspicion about whatever comes out of China, I do not believe they sold that many cars, I also do not believe they made that much revenue, I do not have any proof, but I am sure they do not have a proof neither, they are just writing numbers, who can argue against it? And more importantly, China literally covers the losses for BYD whenever they made it, whereas Tesla only gets subsidies in the form of tax cuts, they did not receive free money.

Contrary to you, I quite like Elon and Tesla, but I prefer practicality.

If you have no evidence and are just making statements based on your thoughts and opinions, it is difficult for us to discuss further. Because I bet even if all that data were true, you still wouldn't want to believe it and would find a way to deny it. Like bitcoin maximalists, they will reject anything related to altcoins regardless of right or wrong.

I don't know how accurate that number is but as far as I know Cnbc is a reputable business news channel and is headquartered in the United States. I don't think they would post unverified nonsense or post news that could harm their country.

By the way, have you seen the news about Tesla's financial report? Their sales continued to decline in the second quarter of this year.
https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/downloads/TSLA-Q2-2025-Update.pdf
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-stock-slides-after-earnings-miss-musk-warns-of-few-rough-quarters-221407333.html

[WillyAp]

In Brazil BYD is starting to grow very strongly. The only reason why they are not the top 1 right now is that people still don't fully trust eletric cars because they need to travel between states and Brazil is huge, so recharging can be a pain. As more charging stations are installed, I think we are ready for a huge surprise from BYD.

Brazilian customers don't need a service network, like in the developed world.
People in the 3rd World are a different bread. 
   

[mikel_012]

In Brazil BYD is starting to grow very strongly. The only reason why they are not the top 1 right now is that people still don't fully trust eletric cars because they need to travel between states and Brazil is huge, so recharging can be a pain. As more charging stations are installed, I think we are ready for a huge surprise from BYD.

Brazilian customers don't need a service network, like in the developed world.
People in the 3rd World are a different bread. 
   

What do you mean that we don't need a service network?

[WillyAp]

What do you mean that we don't need a service network?

Many people don't care for service, compare customer behavior patterns from the EU to Latin America

[mikel_012]

What do you mean that we don't need a service network?

Many people don't care for service, compare customer behavior patterns from the EU to Latin America

You still didn't answer. What do you mean with service?

I have friends with BYD. One has a Seal and another has a Byd Dolphin Plus, they get all the service they need. That's why I'm confused, you must be talking about something else?

[WillyAp]

You still didn't answer. What do you mean with service?

I have friends with BYD. One has a Seal and another has a Byd Dolphin Plus, they get all the service they need. That's why I'm confused, you must be talking about something else?

Service stations, what is hard to understand?
taller de servicio. 

[mikel_012]

You still didn't answer. What do you mean with service?

I have friends with BYD. One has a Seal and another has a Byd Dolphin Plus, they get all the service they need. That's why I'm confused, you must be talking about something else?

Service stations, what is hard to understand?
taller de servicio.  

You should probably be aware that different cultures and countries call things differently.

I clearly said I'm from Brazil, we do not speak spanish here.

Now, there is no such thing as "service stations" or "taller de servicio" here in the 3rd world. There are "oficinas" or car workshops, where they check and fix your car. Is this what you are talking about? There are plenty, actually two close ones from BYD in my city which is small compared to a big city like Sao Paulo or Rio de Janeiro. BYD cars get three years of free revisions on them, so they are very happy with all of it.

But I agree they need more all over the place to get people confident. Time will tell, but I believe on their expansion.

[philipma1957]

With what I see myself, they're able to beat Tesla in terms of sales for how many years, 1 or 2? They're now dominating the EV industry and if they say that they're fine, they should be fine. The good thing about this company is that, they're also being supported by its own people in China. They have a huge population, and they're proving the worth of their product. I'm not sure if I'll have one in the future but it looks stylish, but I still prefer to have a gas/diesel engine car. They are making the cars quite cheaper but loaded with tech.

Hybrid is the best way to drive if you drive because you have to,drive.

50-55 Miles per gallon

Tank of gas lets me drive 600 miles.

If I want to play with the car I attempt to coast and brake as much as I can trying to do 60 miles per gallon.

[tabas]

With what I see myself, they're able to beat Tesla in terms of sales for how many years, 1 or 2? They're now dominating the EV industry and if they say that they're fine, they should be fine. The good thing about this company is that, they're also being supported by its own people in China. They have a huge population, and they're proving the worth of their product. I'm not sure if I'll have one in the future but it looks stylish, but I still prefer to have a gas/diesel engine car. They are making the cars quite cheaper but loaded with tech.

Hybrid is the best way to drive if you drive because you have to,drive.

50-55 Miles per gallon

Tank of gas lets me drive 600 miles.

If I want to play with the car I attempt to coast and brake as much as I can trying to do 60 miles per gallon.

I'd agree with that. Hybrid is a good option but I haven't drived one because all of the cars that I've driven were ICE type. Fully EV gives the range anxiety and I don't want to feel that based on what I've read with the feed back of the owners. What I don't like with EV is that, it takes a while before charging. While with ICE type, if you're in a hurry, you just go to the gas station and pump it. But of course if I've got some chance to drive all types, I'd be happy to.

With what I see myself, they're able to beat Tesla in terms of sales for how many years, 1 or 2? They're now dominating the EV industry and if they say that they're fine, they should be fine. The good thing about this company is that, they're also being supported by its own people in China. They have a huge population, and they're proving the worth of their product. I'm not sure if I'll have one in the future but it looks stylish, but I still prefer to have a gas/diesel engine car. They are making the cars quite cheaper but loaded with tech.

If I had to choose an electric car, I'd rather go for BYD than Tesla.
I've seen BYD cars tested and they're pretty well made, which cannot be said about Tesla which was one of the brands that people have the most complaints about in the first year of use.
Also, Teslas are famous for their bad quality checks with huge gaps between the panels.

If someone is really into electric cars (which I am not) you might want to check out Zeekr.


As for BYD vs non-electric brands, I'd rather buy a Toyota or a Honda hybrid than a fully electric car, especially from China. Here in the EU everybody knows how to fix a gasoline car, or a hybrid and parts are easy to get. You get an issue with your BYD and 90% of mechanics will tell you to go to authorized service which will most likely be out of town. For instance I've run a quick search for a BYD service and the closest one is 250km away. Imagine going there for a routine checkup every year. That's half a day wasted to get your car serviced.

No doubt about Japan cars that are hybrid with those brands. You'll never go wrong with Toyota and a Honda. I think as for preference we have no question to these Japan made cars but if someone who's got some spare money and would like to go with BYD, it also depends on where is the closest service center and if in your case if it's a 250km drive away, I'll not buy yet but maybe when a dealer and service center opens close to you, I guess that's one reason for you to get it.

[WillyAp]

Now, there is no such thing as "service stations" or "taller de servicio" here in the 3rd world. There are "oficinas" or car workshops, where they check and fix your car. Is this what you are talking about? There are plenty, actually two close ones from BYD in my city which is small compared to a big city like Sao Paulo or Rio de Janeiro. BYD cars get three years of free revisions on them, so they are very happy with all of it.

In the EU people are used to have services stations, from their brand of car.
Not having a network is not that good.

I've never been to China, so I ignore if BYD has service stations there.
Usually in the 3rd world the car is sold and way later come the Car's brand Workshops. 

[mikel_012]

Now, there is no such thing as "service stations" or "taller de servicio" here in the 3rd world. There are "oficinas" or car workshops, where they check and fix your car. Is this what you are talking about? There are plenty, actually two close ones from BYD in my city which is small compared to a big city like Sao Paulo or Rio de Janeiro. BYD cars get three years of free revisions on them, so they are very happy with all of it.

In the EU people are used to have services stations, from their brand of car.
Not having a network is not that good.

I've never been to China, so I ignore if BYD has service stations there.
Usually in the 3rd world the car is sold and way later come the Car's brand Workshops. 

In Brazil we have service statations from BYD since day one, with their branding and their own workers. Like I said there are two big ones on my city. In Sao Paulo and Rio there might be dozens, same for other cities.

So not a problem as far as I know.

[el kaka22]

When you are hearing "all is good" from China, be careful. I will never defend Tesla, because they do suck as well, and I definitely support that Teslas are horrible. But we need to look at this as something that would be very risky to handle, so nothing complicated, so do not focus on how BYD is "great" because you will realize that it's just the same shitbox. That has to be the thing we could consider things changing.

That should be very important for making decisions, whatever comes out of China, could be a lie, maybe not, but there is always risk, so always be careful. For me personally, Tesla and BYD are both shitty, and real cars are usually made by others and not even electric. Like Toyota always makes great cars.

[dezoel]

While I agree BYD isn't getting "superior" cut of the market, I also disagree they are a nobody, they are still strong competition. In fact, I would say in the EV world, the only two that matters is Tesla and BYD at the moment.

With BRICS becoming important, I can see BYD selling more as well. China has this thing for about 20 years now where "Chinese product" is a stigma, and I rather not drive a Chinese car, in case it may break down. I had many things which were "made in China" and I didn't like it, and broke down after a while, I won't want my car to be that way. To be fair, my car is hybrid, and French, and it sucks, so it would definitely be better if I got BYD or Tesla, either would have been better than my horrible junk .

[adaseb]

Many just want a decent car that does not break and does not use a lot of fuel.

This is a catch 22 however.

Why is it that these days you got cars like the Honda Civic which was once a very reliable brand that has more reliability issues than previously?

Well to make a car more fuel efficient you need to add complicated bits such as CVT transmission, turbo chargers, direct injection, start/stop technology, etc. While this does make the car more fuel efficient, it makes it less reliable because there are more parts, more complicated mechanical setup, more strain on the smaller engines/starter motor. And it becomes less reliable.

This is one reason why many mechanics welcome electric vehicles. They are efficient because they use electricity instead of gas and they are reliable because there are less complicated parts. A electrical motor is easier to work on than a combustion engine.