Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[btc_uzr]

pfuuu...seems like most are missing a tiny but very important fact when shouting at each other, which could relax the whole situation dramatically.

Please consider there are several kind of people involved.
Not all are in the same position, we all are individuals keep it in mind before starting the next fight.

1) ppl who do not care that much about ROI, some have fun mining and to be part of the cryptocoin movement....

Some fun paying 5000$ so that drug dealers and gamblers can have a safer payment system. I'm sure most people could find better hobbies than that. Like getting drunk on a weekend and spending what's left on a pair of russian hookers. Both hobbies result in a same financial loss, but one leaves you with memories of awesomeness while the other pretty much sums up to..well..nothing.

If you state that btc is about drugs, gambling and other illegal shit only, you have proven not to be well informed, you do not have the tiniest clue about its nature, structure, services in place, acceptance, etc.

Some of my friends work at Porsche and earn good money. They considered spending some hundred euros on an idea which could change the world....just for fun.
In case you do not know, BTC is not anonymous...fiat is anonymous and being used for crimes of all kind...even faked cash exists

[markm]

It also only takes one click to get your browser hit by a fly-by zeroday attack...

-MarkM-

[Nemo1024]

Yep, everyone is on tenderhooks, and it's difficult to make people relax a little.

Oh, and by the way, a very good article, highly recommended: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/returnoninvestment.asp



In other words, you don't make a ROI in much the same way that you don't make GH/s. ROI is a performance measurement. Now I'm done with the topic of ROI

[Rampion]

Yep, everyone is on tenderhooks, and it's difficult to make people relax a little.

Oh, an by the way, a very good article, highly recommended: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/returnoninvestment.asp

Let's hope that a simple image make this very simple finance concept to stick in the heads of illiterate bitcoin miners.

[tolip_wen]

Yep, everyone is on tenderhooks, and it's difficult to make people relax a little.

Oh, and by the way, a very good article, highly recommended: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/returnoninvestment.asp



In other words, you don't make a ROI in much the same way that you don't make GH/s. ROI is a performance measurement. Now I'm done with the topic of ROI

It is quite common within subcultures for the meaning of words to be preverted.

Not much you can do once they take root.

[The Avenger]

There should be a specific measure for bitcoin.

Clawing back what you invested on mining equipment = Return on Bitcoin = ROB

If you make your money back, you were not ROB'd  

[Miz4r]

Yep, everyone is on tenderhooks, and it's difficult to make people relax a little.

Oh, and by the way, a very good article, highly recommended: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/returnoninvestment.asp



In other words, you don't make a ROI in much the same way that you don't make GH/s. ROI is a performance measurement. Now I'm done with the topic of ROI

Look everybody knows this formula already, but your conclusion makes no sense whatsoever. You can absolutely make a Return on your Investment, saying that's incorrect because there's a formula behind those words is just silly. When people talk about 'making or achieving ROI' they obviously mean positive ROI as negative or 0 ROI is not a 'Return on your Investment'. Get this simple fact through your head please, I'm sure you're smart enough to understand it.

[Nemo1024]

The Avenger, brilliant suggestion!  
It will also make explicit that independent of the exchange rate, you should return all the BTC that you invested before breaking even.

@Miz4r: Ok, I give up. When travelling to work today I covered a distance of 15km/h. See what I did there? The pedantic scientist part of me slowly bleeds when I see people abuse units of measurement...

I invest 15 BTC into a miner. It earns 10 BTC by the end of its life. I've made a ROI! But I have not broken even.

ROI = (10-15)/15 = -0.333

Look everybody knows this formula already, but your conclusion makes no sense whatsoever. You can absolutely make a Return on your Investment, saying that's incorrect because there's a formula behind those words is just silly. When people talk about 'making or achieving ROI' they obviously mean positive ROI as negative or 0 ROI is not a 'Return on your Investment'.

No, you can't be "making or achieving ROI" in the sense of reaching a certain threshold. What you can do is to "make" or "get" some ROI, which can be any value between -Inf and +Inf.

[-Redacted-]

Yep, everyone is on tenderhooks, and it's difficult to make people relax a little.

Oh, and by the way, a very good article, highly recommended: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/returnoninvestment.asp



In other words, you don't make a ROI in much the same way that you don't make GH/s. ROI is a performance measurement. Now I'm done with the topic of ROI

Look everybody knows this formula already, but your conclusion makes no sense whatsoever. You can absolutely make a Return on your Investment, saying that's incorrect because there's a formula behind those words is just silly. When people talk about 'making or achieving ROI' they obviously mean positive ROI as negative or 0 ROI is not a 'Return on your Investment'. Get this simple fact through your head please, I'm sure you're smart enough to understand it.

+1  We'll use "making ROI" however we choose to use it, thanks...


Ummm.   Tried to change the shipping address for my Jupiters.  Received this response:


As we are very close to the production date, all October orders have been finalized and sent for production.
 
The shipping addresses have been forwarded to UPS and registered in the system for shipping. Therefore, any changes of orders cannot be accepted.
 
If you have any further questions please do not hesitate in contacting us.
 
Best regards  | Med vänlig hälsning  
Keith Gurnett  
Kncminer

www.kncminer.com
Office: +46 8559 253 20

[AussieHash]

Repost - best reddit comment in a long time
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1mgh0s/well_despite_all_the_talk_of_never_seeing_a_roi_i/cc91870

People need to STOP using fiat exchange rates to calculate mining profitability. Doesn't matter if you use USD/EUR/YEN/POUNDS.
Think about what you're actually doing when you buy a mining device. You are buying a machine that does one thing and one thing ONLY, it makes bitcoins. Infact, for all intents and purposes, it only makes a finite amount of bitcoins.
If you are smart, you can calculate how many bitcoins your miner is likely to ever make. If you buy a miner for 100BTC, and it only mines 90BTC, then you have lost 10BTC.
Now heres the trick that manufacturers do to rip off the uninformed. They have calculated that the miner will only make 90BTC, so instead of plugging it in and running it for a year or so, they try to sell you the miner for 100BTC! Not only do they get 10BTC more, but they get their return right away. (The time value of money is also valuable)
So instead of selling the miner to you at 100BTC, they just say '$10,000' (assuming the exchange rate was $100/btc). This tricks most people into trying to worry about what the future exchange rate is. But its actually irrelevant!
Why? Because with your $10,000 you could buy 100BTC right now on an exchange, instead of buying a miner that will only return 90BTC to you. So, you're effectively paying $10,000/90 = $111 per BTC instead of $100 per BTC. You just got ripped off.
When you buy a miner that does not ROI in BTC terms, you are basically paying a higher exchange rate then you can get today on MTGOX.
Another way to look at is, is imagine that I tell you to send me 100BTC or $10,000, and in return i'll give you 90BTC back. Only an idiot would say "don't worry, even though i got 90BTC back, i'll make up for it when the exchange rate goes up! " You're still missing out on 10BTC that you would have if you just bought on MTGOX!

[KS]

Yep, everyone is on tenderhooks, and it's difficult to make people relax a little.

Oh, and by the way, a very good article, highly recommended: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/returnoninvestment.asp



In other words, you don't make a ROI in much the same way that you don't make GH/s. ROI is a performance measurement. Now I'm done with the topic of ROI

Please stop this immediately. This information is too accurate for this thread.

What, are you insane or sth? Immediately revert to FUDing or else... !

(next thing someone will be explaining Lynx to the pre-webschoolers! OMG!)

[Xialla]

The shipping addresses have been forwarded to UPS and registered in the system for shipping. Therefore, any changes of orders cannot be accepted.

so we (1/2 day) can't ask for refund?

[plasmoske]

Ummm.   Tried to change the shipping address for my Jupiters.  Received this response:


As we are very close to the production date, all October orders have been finalized and sent for production.
 
The shipping addresses have been forwarded to UPS and registered in the system for shipping. Therefore, any changes of orders cannot be accepted.

That makes absolutely no sense at all.

[cognoscente]

Yep, everyone is on tenderhooks, and it's difficult to make people relax a little.

Oh, and by the way, a very good article, highly recommended: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/returnoninvestment.asp



In other words, you don't make a ROI in much the same way that you don't make GH/s. ROI is a performance measurement. Now I'm done with the topic of ROI

Look everybody knows this formula already, but your conclusion makes no sense whatsoever. You can absolutely make a Return on your Investment, saying that's incorrect because there's a formula behind those words is just silly. When people talk about 'making or achieving ROI' they obviously mean positive ROI as negative or 0 ROI is not a 'Return on your Investment'. Get this simple fact through your head please, I'm sure you're smart enough to understand it.

Get some help.

[The Avenger]

Ummm.   Tried to change the shipping address for my Jupiters.  Received this response:


As we are very close to the production date, all October orders have been finalized and sent for production.
 
The shipping addresses have been forwarded to UPS and registered in the system for shipping. Therefore, any changes of orders cannot be accepted.

That makes absolutely no sense at all.

I think you are seeing the "no mass refund" clause in action. Although it could be they are ultra-close to shipping

[nightengale]

The shipping addresses have been forwarded to UPS and registered in the system for shipping. Therefore, any changes of orders cannot be accepted.

so we (1/2 day) can't ask for refund?

I wondered if this meant that refunds were closed, possibly even for all days? I know the 1/2 day thing is a badge of honor, but my payment was submitted before a number of 1/2 people, and I don't really think there's going to be much difference in shipping times as it sounds like they'll be pushing a ton of their stuff out the door all at once.

[tarmi]

As we are very close to the production date, all October orders have been finalized and sent for production.
 
The shipping addresses have been forwarded to UPS and registered in the system for shipping. Therefore, any changes of orders cannot be accepted.
 
If you have any further questions please do not hesitate in contacting us.
 
Best regards  | Med vänlig hälsning  
Keith Gurnett  
Kncminer

www.kncminer.com
Office: +46 8559 253 20

wow, no refunds.

BFL style.

[pitchbend]

I'm a day1 customer and I was able to change from shipping to local pickup, I requested it on Monday (23rd).

The shipping addresses have been forwarded to UPS and registered in the system for shipping. Therefore, any changes of orders cannot be accepted.

so we (1/2 day) can't ask for refund?

[Nemo1024]

+1  We'll use "making ROI" however we choose to use it, thanks...

Sure.   No problem.

Everybody! Rush in to buy Bitcoin miners now! They will all make ROI!!! (in the sense 99.999999% of the economic-savvied population uses the term)


For some reason I find the message that they've finalised shipment addresses reassuring. I think refunds were not mentioned in that reply.

[efodix]

As we are very close to the production date, all October orders have been finalized and sent for production.
 
The shipping addresses have been forwarded to UPS and registered in the system for shipping. Therefore, any changes of orders cannot be accepted.
 
If you have any further questions please do not hesitate in contacting us.
 
Best regards  | Med vänlig hälsning  
Keith Gurnett  
Kncminer

www.kncminer.com
Office: +46 8559 253 20

wow, no refunds.

BFL style.

Yeah, I was just going to say that, the slow drift from euphoria to desperation really reminds me of the hell I'm in with my BFL orders. The "all sales are final" thing sounds way too familiar. I bet the next announcement will be something like "in two weeks".