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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3050099 times)
Biomech
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October 17, 2013, 06:49:16 AM
 #16741

Oh, I freely admit that it was a fluke (the one I saw was not the ASIC miner thing, I do remember that.)

If the block you saw is not related to the ASICMiner refund, then show me where you saw a block which generated 200 BTC in transactions fees. I want see with my own eyes if such block even exist...
It wasn't 200 BTC in fees but 2.7 BTC if Biomech is talking about the one i'm thinking of: http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/11731/anomalous-2-7-btc-transaction-fee-observed. It was talked about in this thread recently or at least on bitcointalk i think but i'm not going to search for it.


You may be correct. I haven't had a lot of sleep of late. I saw it about a week ago, either here or reddit.

At any rate, and this is to Augusto Croppo specifically and also a general thought.

I do NOT know a great deal of the technical aspects of bitcoin. I'm still learning, and I am not a mathematician so a lot of it is currently beyond me. That being said, I am well versed in economics, particularly Austrian school, but I have read and understood Keynes to the extent that anyone can understand that gobbledygook. I understand markets and money.

What I am proposing is simple on it's face, but somewhat complex in it's actions. This, I think, is one future avenue to gain widespread acceptance of bitcoin. Yes, it has unique properties that make it IN ITSELF a vehicle for monetary transactions, and yes, I understand that this does not in itself generate fees.

Therefore it is incumbent on the bitcoin community, and especially miners, to implement schemes that DO generate these fees. And yes, this scheme would require a form of banking. This is not egregious. Banking in and of itself is not harmful to economies. Fractional reserve banking is, because it "creates" units of currency that do not currently actually exist. In it's base form, it borrows against what a lender can repay ahead of time. That is dangerous, but not egregious. In it's more modern form, the "central bank" sees those loans as actual money and adjusts the supply accordingly. That's straight up theft in the form of debasing the currency. This we do want to avoid.

But a bank or similar institution issuing debit cards that transact with the network is not a problem, except for technical issues that are frankly minor. I'll say for the sake of speculation that Visa decides to issue the Visa-B bitcoin debit card, and they charge the seller around 1 percent of their transactions. This is normal, actually a bit low. Visa averages around 1.6 percent. Or did about 5 years ago. This does NOT cause a decline in transactions, as accepting Visa gives merchants a huge advantage over those who don't. So now, in this example, you have a bitcoin denominated visa card. Visa already does "currency equivalent" transactions, so this would be trivial to them. Now, let's say that they put 10 percent of their income to transaction fees to facilitate the network. See how this could work?

Further, on a slightly different angle, large merchants like Target or Walmart could issue bitcoin denominated gift cards, with a portion of every sale set as a transaction fee (sale of the g/c). This too would add to the network, and would be advantageous to the merchant as it would be yet another avenue of revenue for them. It costs them nothing, only slightly reduces THEIR income on the purchase fee.

These are just two possible schemes to add to the TX fees in the network. If the miners are participants in such a schema, then it benefits them far beyond just generating BTC via mining, and it helps the merchants to contribute to those who maintain the security of the network. Using personal advantage as a springboard, such cooperative ventures benefit everyone involved, including the consumer who now has another avenue of transaction.

This is somewhat complex, but not overly complicated. This is doable with existing structures and networks. There is NO reason that it shouldn't be done that I can see.

Mainstream adoption WILL increase the value of bitcoin over time due to it's deflationary nature AND the inflationary nature inherent in standard fiat currencies. As more people use the currency, the demand for it will drive it's value upward. This has nothing to do with the network itself, but everything to do with it's artificial scarcity. This is fairly basic economics. The more scarce a thing is that is in demand, the higher the purchasing power of it's owners.
Searing
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October 17, 2013, 06:51:07 AM
 #16742

#421x Saturn, saying "paid" after 16 fucking days of production.  HOSTED. Sent a love letter to knc last night. After 1hour received a reply with immediate change in status to "full refund pending". So yes, they are accepting refunds. Switching to Bitmine. 650GHs+1y hosting for $1000 more.

hopefully that applies to more then just the hosted folks

Searing

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Biomech
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October 17, 2013, 06:56:33 AM
 #16743

No of course, it's my prediction, based on my reasoning.

Your "reasoning" is clouded by being a knc-fanboi. The hashrate is not going to "level out" for quite some time.

Hashrate will level out when peoples want/need for money/greed levels out.

I have to disagree. That's a bottomless well. It'll hit technical barriers long before that.
Biomech
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October 17, 2013, 07:04:02 AM
 #16744


Thanks for the video. Somehow I ended up watching the first episode of DS9 because of your two posts. Now, I'm hooked on DS9, a series I never got into prior.
I'm a trekkie. All series except "enterprise", and not a lot of love for voyager, but it was ok. DS9's first season was kind of 'eh'. From the second season to the finale it was really good.
Biomech
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October 17, 2013, 07:08:26 AM
 #16745

not everyone bothers to claim their merged mined Namecoins, so he gets to keep some of those at least...
It was my understanding that Luke also mines his own pool. I could be wrong, but it would make sense.
ur0pl
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October 17, 2013, 07:52:03 AM
 #16746

Wow the genesisblock calculator updated.  Very grim...mining equipment will be lucky to make half of their value back.

http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/

I think those who deny this will be very disappointed.  You aren't really competing against each other anymore hoping your neighbor drops out.  China is ramping up for their own large scale corporate farms.  http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/TheGenesisBlock/~3/W0-SZClMliA/

I see no reason to believe this won't keep expanding by small amounts of very wealthy people despite the average person bailing out.  You'll get far more BTC for your $ if just buying direct now.




Dude the hashrate is about to level out for a bit not, continue growing like this for a while. This has been the first shipment of a major die shrink. If anything it shows the genesis block was way off base all along, as I previously stated. This will be a huge step up over a couple of weeks and then there won't be anything in such a huge multiple in one go on to make such a marked effect on the hashrate again for sometime. More a plateau You certainly won't see a doubling of the current hashrate as it stands after the KnC delivery for a while yet, even during their November shipment. If they were to ship anywhere near what they shipped just now, it'll increase the current hashrate by a proportion, not a multiple due to the cumulative effect of this wave.

What about Hashfast? They are coming online with at least 550 orders. Their chip could probably be overclocked to 600 gh/s. So that means about 330 terahash added. then other companies too, there aren't a waiting period for new companies to come out with hardware, they are doing it right now
Puppet
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October 17, 2013, 07:59:53 AM
 #16747

What about Hashfast? They are coming online with at least 550 orders. Their chip could probably be overclocked to 600 gh/s. So that means about 330 terahash added.

330 TH is less than 15% of the current network, likely 10% by the time they ship.
Of course I do expect HF to ship considerably more than 550 babyjets.
ur0pl
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October 17, 2013, 08:11:04 AM
 #16748

KNCMINER hardware owns 20% of the network according to http://thegenesisblock.com/bitcoin-network-doubles-2-phs-four-weeks-first-1-phs-took-4-7-years/. What ever happened to "Network protection statement" ?

that article probably didn't calculate bitfury in, but whatever
ur0pl
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October 17, 2013, 08:12:33 AM
 #16749

I get my miner tomorrow, and I would be lucky if I make ROI. I wish I could turn a profit. I wish i could pay off debts.

financial ruin:
I thought bitcoin would make my life better, but it has turned out to put me in debt.

Just when I thought I could get ahead, I don't make it.
Nemo1024
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October 17, 2013, 08:13:20 AM
 #16750

KNCMINER hardware owns 20% of the network according to http://thegenesisblock.com/bitcoin-network-doubles-2-phs-four-weeks-first-1-phs-took-4-7-years/. What ever happened to "Network protection statement" ?

that article probably didn't calculate bitfury in, but whatever

What about Network protection statement? It's not KnC, but their hardware. The hardware itself is spread out among many players.

“Dark times lie ahead of us and there will be a time when we must choose between what is easy and what is right.”
“We are only as strong as we are united, as weak as we are divided.”
“It is important to fight and fight again, and keep fighting, for only then can evil be kept at bay, though never quite eradicated.”
demonmaestro
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Mining for the hell of it.


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October 17, 2013, 08:13:58 AM
 #16751

I get my miner tomorrow, and I would be lucky if I make ROI. I wish I could turn a profit. I wish i could pay off debts.

financial ruin:
I thought bitcoin would make my life better, but it has turned out to put me in debt.

Should of gotten coins instead of mining equiptment.



I wonder how long it will sit "in progress"

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Nemo1024
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October 17, 2013, 08:14:46 AM
 #16752

I get my miner tomorrow, and I would be lucky if I make ROI. I wish I could turn a profit. I wish i could pay off debts.

financial ruin:
I thought bitcoin would make my life better, but it has turned out to put me in debt.

This has been said before. May times over. Do not invest more than you can comfortably lose. And never, ever borrow money to put into high-risk investments.


Should of gotten coins instead of mining equiptment.

Even that can potentially give you a nice large negative ROI. Be prepared to lose.

“Dark times lie ahead of us and there will be a time when we must choose between what is easy and what is right.”
“We are only as strong as we are united, as weak as we are divided.”
“It is important to fight and fight again, and keep fighting, for only then can evil be kept at bay, though never quite eradicated.”
ur0pl
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October 17, 2013, 08:17:48 AM
 #16753


This has been said before. May times over. Do not invest more than you can comfortably lose. And never, ever borrow money to put into high-risk investments.


Different mining calculators said that I couldn't lose and this was not high risk.
frankenmint
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October 17, 2013, 08:20:33 AM
 #16754


This has been said before. May times over. Do not invest more than you can comfortably lose. And never, ever borrow money to put into high-risk investments.


Different mining calculators said that I couldn't lose and this was not high risk.



Should have looked at it likethis:

Hardware is a PC. Its pretty much a sunk cost...period.  Don't buy them with expectation of gaining anything.  This is like the same thing as Nuclear winter.  Can't start a hot war because then everyone who breathes the same air is now poisoned...just like how now that everyone has access to mondoloads of hashpower your sliver of that same size of pie is now going to be smaller than crumbs upon crumbs upon crumbs

Searing
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October 17, 2013, 08:21:43 AM
 #16755

KNCMINER hardware owns 20% of the network according to http://thegenesisblock.com/bitcoin-network-doubles-2-phs-four-weeks-first-1-phs-took-4-7-years/. What ever happened to "Network protection statement" ?

that article probably didn't calculate bitfury in, but whatever

will be interesting to see when KNC gets its next lot out after Nov 15th if they will really halt production until feb/march to protect the network...they had a disclaimer thou if the others still ship in mass they would match...but KNC says they will never mine more then 5% I think it was of what they sell...so the question is ....do they sit back and mine  at lower difficulty and take their time on next gen mining equip and skip this whole flood from nov thru feb and just sit back and mine....perhaps really pulling something even better out of the old 'tech shed' and/or..getting kudos from the knc customers and pre-orders for their next run of machines....by being not quite so blantant in their approach to this business (ie we want repeat customers) ..or do they try to keep up with everyone else and keep/expand market share...trying to stamp out BFL and others before they re-coup?

(hmmm.....will probably be more drama and such with these ASIC miners then a season of Game of Thrones...."To play the game of ASIC Mnfg you win or you die!"



see the below clip all sorts of sayings from the series correspond with asic mining ..the use of power and such...heh...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dku_Uya8Ygc

Searing

Old Style Legacy Plug & Play BBS System. Freeware! Get it from www.synchro.net. Updated 3/3/25. It also works with Windows 11 and Linux. Allows 16 bit DOS game doors on the same Win 11 Machine in Multi-Node! Five Minute Install! Look it over it uninstalls just as fast, if you simply want to look it over. Freeware! Full BBS System! It is a frigging hoot!:)
ur0pl
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October 17, 2013, 08:23:06 AM
 #16756

it would be nice if bitcoin went over 200 again or i could sell my equipment on ebay for 10k or so
ur0pl
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October 17, 2013, 08:24:15 AM
 #16757

KNCMINER hardware owns 20% of the network according to http://thegenesisblock.com/bitcoin-network-doubles-2-phs-four-weeks-first-1-phs-took-4-7-years/. What ever happened to "Network protection statement" ?

that article probably didn't calculate bitfury in, but whatever

will be interesting to see when KNC gets its next lot out after Nov 15th if they will really halt production until feb/march to protect the network...they had a disclaimer thou if the others still ship in mass they would match...but KNC says they will never mine more then 5% I think it was of what they sell...so the question is ....do they sit back and mine  at lower difficulty and take their time on next gen mining equip and skip this whole flood from nov thru feb and just sit back and mine....perhaps really pulling something even better out of the old 'tech shed' and/or..getting kudos from the knc customers and pre-orders for their next run of machines....by being not quite so blantant in their approach to this business (ie we want repeat customers) ..or do they try to keep up with everyone else and keep/expand market share...trying to stamp out BFL and others before they re-coup?

(hmmm.....will probably be more drama and such with these ASIC miners then a season of Game of Thrones...."To play the game of ASIC Mnfg you win or you die!"



see the below clip all sorts of sayings from the series correspond with asic mining ..the use of power and such...heh...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dku_Uya8Ygc

Searing

you are lucky that you could get a refund
ur0pl
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October 17, 2013, 08:26:14 AM
 #16758

What are KNCMiner's plans on being able to upgrade units?
ur0pl
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October 17, 2013, 08:35:18 AM
 #16759

God I hope bitcoin soars up to 160 by the end of the month.
Searing
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October 17, 2013, 08:37:50 AM
 #16760

KNCMINER hardware owns 20% of the network according to http://thegenesisblock.com/bitcoin-network-doubles-2-phs-four-weeks-first-1-phs-took-4-7-years/. What ever happened to "Network protection statement" ?

that article probably didn't calculate bitfury in, but whatever

will be interesting to see when KNC gets its next lot out after Nov 15th if they will really halt production until feb/march to protect the network...they had a disclaimer thou if the others still ship in mass they would match...but KNC says they will never mine more then 5% I think it was of what they sell...so the question is ....do they sit back and mine  at lower difficulty and take their time on next gen mining equip and skip this whole flood from nov thru feb and just sit back and mine....perhaps really pulling something even better out of the old 'tech shed' and/or..getting kudos from the knc customers and pre-orders for their next run of machines....by being not quite so blantant in their approach to this business (ie we want repeat customers) ..or do they try to keep up with everyone else and keep/expand market share...trying to stamp out BFL and others before they re-coup?

(hmmm.....will probably be more drama and such with these ASIC miners then a season of Game of Thrones...."To play the game of ASIC Mnfg you win or you die!"



see the below clip all sorts of sayings from the series correspond with asic mining ..the use of power and such...heh...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dku_Uya8Ygc

Searing

you are lucky that you could get a refund

not sure about the refund yet..a guy posted he got such for hosting...not sure if it applies in that I think 'everyone' in now in processing mode rather then paid at knc we will see
if they send it i'll keep it..if they don't prob best to wait till this madness is over the next couple months (then again i'm always wrong feel free to re-post this which ever way it goes.it will be useful in proving me clueless yet again...) also yeah refund did not learn that lesson with BFL (maybe this time?)

(if I get refund btc will go to 500 a coin...if I don't get  a refund it will go to 50 bucks a coin....the ASIC gods hate me imho)

Searing

Old Style Legacy Plug & Play BBS System. Freeware! Get it from www.synchro.net. Updated 3/3/25. It also works with Windows 11 and Linux. Allows 16 bit DOS game doors on the same Win 11 Machine in Multi-Node! Five Minute Install! Look it over it uninstalls just as fast, if you simply want to look it over. Freeware! Full BBS System! It is a frigging hoot!:)
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