Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[Biomech]

A bunch of naive, idealistic blather

The first thing you fail to understand is that this is a business, not a charity.  Get that through your head and the rest of it will make sense.

If you want to buy a miner for me, I will happily point it at any pool of your choosing.   As long as I'm spending MY money on equipment, then I'll point MY equipment on whatever fucking pool I see fit.  If smaller pools want to attract more miners, they should get their asses in gear and improve the pools to make them more attractive for use.  Things like extended stats, DDoS protection, and consistently working payouts (I'm looking at you, Eligius).

If you are so concerned about decentralization, I sure hope you are solo mining.  If you can't walk the walk, then stop trying to talk the talk.

... a comment on this post.  I am not sure a post could have been more skillfully crafted to drive home my point.

This next comment is not meant to be inflammatory, although I understand if you take is so.  It is meant for you to take into account, as a data point while making and employing your business plan.

Centralization is the enemy of this experiment.  "Business men" that mine for profit without regard for the network are not a friend to the experiment if their efforts result in too much centralization (usually a goal of a for-profit company).

Those of us that see this as a threat (such as ASICminer & a couple of other Chinese companies) to the eco system, are working hard to drive up the diff with de-centralized hashing in an effort to make your business less-viable.  The hope is that this will cause fewer people to sink huge sums of money into centralized operations such as yours if the returns are simply not there.

I hope it works.  I am doing my part.

If the project cannot stand on its own two feet without special care and feeding, it will die and deservedly so.  So as to loop this to an on-topic tangent...taking KnC miners into consideration the fact that anyone with a large enough capital base can purchase such a device (or multiples of devices) means that no longer is bitcoin given the luxury of being coddled by nurturing hobbyists who will do anything (including sacrificing their own profit margin) in order to make sure the network survives.  Bitcoin is now in the limelight of the world, and the Big Boys are entering the game wearing their Big Boy Pants and playing by Big Boy Rules.  ASIC companies such as KnC will fill whatever demand is out there in order to line their pockets (and rightfully so if you believe in free enterprise).  People buying these machines will implement them in such a way as to maximize their returns on investment (classical definition).  Those who stand in the way of that will get squished.  Those who work towards filling niches that are complimentary to that will be rewarded (ie alternative pools that people actually want to use, developing a less cumbersome way to use p2pool-type technologies that appeal to the masses, etc).  That's the reality, and trying to pontificate from some "moral high ground" about some kind of socialistic operational theory is less than helpful.  That type of input, if actually a majority-held one in the community, would only hasten bitcoin's demise as the people putting in the capital that is making bitcoin relevant would stop doing so and the whole house of cards would collapse.  Bitcoin only has value because people THINK it has value.  If you tell people it only has value as long as they are willing to lose money (either directly or through less-than-optimal operations that decrease potential profits versus other investments) through participating in it...how long until it stops having value?

So again..want to help?  Work on those things that are symbiotic with the large-scale capitalism that bitcoin is meant to help foster beyond the bounds of government oversight and regulation.  Telling people they shouldn't be trying to maximize their investment in it is the same as telling people that they shouldn't invest, period...which is not helpful.  

Now that KnC has a proven ASIC design, I expect them to begin flooding the market in 2014 with as many as they can churn out in order to cash in before the big difficulty crunch where average power costs equal expected fiat-converted returns and extending that run with a transition to a more power-efficient gen2 product.  Ditto bitfury and their distribution outlets.  That's the trajectory of the market...the only thing an individual can do is choose on which side of the bullet he wants to stand.  The best thing for the overall market is to encourage more (and bigger) investment that will drive the price of BTC upwards to extend the useful life of the individually-owned miner, as well as encourage more mainstream adoption of the currency as a storage of value.

And as for "centralized operations such as mine"...in the bitcoin mining realm I'm just another guy with miners at home trying to get them to pay for themselves and maybe a little extra to the greatest extent that I can manage. The "big business" portion is in the markets which should be outside your moral concern.  I've already left a lot of potential gains on the table by mining in the first place instead of just using those funds to buy more bitcoin directly and you want me (and others) to sacrifice even MORE for some "code of ethics" or whatever.  LOL.

The notion that I should somehow sacrifice "for the greater good" when it's clear that any concession that I might make would just be pocketed as profit by somebody else is ludicrous. But hey, if that's your bag...go for it.  The rest of us thank you for your contribution.  And make sure and buy as many KnC rigs as you possibly can to keep them out of the hands of those evil profit-mongers like me.  I'm sure KnC might even send you a Christmas card if you buy enough

Well stated. Aside from the snark, I think you've described my position fairly well. I don't think that SeanRaney is wrong altogether, but I do think he's seeing a small piece of a big thing.

All things done by living beings are done for perceived profit. Whether that perception is ACCURATE is open for debate, but nobody does something deliberately to harm themselves unless they are disturbed or defective. Even then, often, it's to profit in some manner. The cutter gains the profit of attention. The "altruist" gains the profit of adulation, and the capitalist gains tangible wealth. That is not in any way an exhaustive list. When profits are regulated by fiat and other control mechanisms, two things happen. Those with the pull and wherewithal buy the regulators, and those without either stop producing or go somewhere more conducive to doing business.

The pools themselves ARE the result of such capitalistic forces. CPU mining became too difficult, so people found a way to pool their resources. That this led to additional problems and possibilities is just the way things are. We do not invent advanced technologies in one step. It took us millennia to go from writing to computers. Every advancement creates new problems, some anticipated, some not. Free markets eventually solve the problems, as they cry out for solution!

In this particular instance, as has already been pointed out, you already have p2pool, which my knowledge of is not good. But it does address the problem of pools being centralized (to the extent that they are). If this becomes significantly a problem, other solutions or variations of that one will supplant the "pool" model, or compete with it on equal footing. As I mentioned, I do know one strength of p2pool over the poolserver model, but I do not know it's other strengths and weaknesses. I am certain, however, that it has not AS YET reached a point where the miners in general think it's benefits outweigh it's deficits. I know this because the vast majority of miners are mining from the pools.

Frankly, since the mining community at large IS aware of the issue, and because at least so far the major pool operators have proven to be honorable men, I don't see where there is much impetus to go beyond that model right now. On the other hand, with newer and faster devices coming in waves, that could change overnight. Given the talent pool that I have personally observed in this thread alone, I don't see a realistic chance of a successful 51 percent attack on the bitcoin network ever again. I am very new to mining. I am more of a student at the moment. I think I could change pools without having a failover set in CGminer in under a minute. Can't comment to the other miners because I haven't used them. While the pools have a lot of perceived power, it is illusory. A pool with no-one connected to it is a waste of electricity, nothing else. The very fact of that is a built in safety and check on the greed of the operators.

I think SeanRaney's concerns are valid, but I think they have been adequately addressed, both by his way of doing things, and by the way this market is working.

Edit for bold. Mistyped the tag. Oops.

[Biomech]

Make a Windows GUI front end for p2pool, then maybe computer-illiterate Windows users will use it, which will be good for everyone.

Maybe you could even sell it, since Windows users are often actually used to paying for software and maybe even prefer stuff they paid for to free stuff.

-MarkM-

Not all of us are computer illiterate. I like windows. I also like linux, but find it cumbersome for a great many things that windows is easy on. Both have their strengths and weaknesses. \

NOT having a Windows GUI based p2pool interface is a weakness of that protocol. Because no matter how much the linux and/or Mac fanboys would like this to be untrue, the vast majority of home computers are running windows. Excluding the biggest market out of prejudice or idealism is very akin to shooting yourself in the foot.

I personally like the donationware model for such things. "register for .xx and this nag goes away and I continue development" kind of thing.

[texaslabrat]

A bunch of naive, idealistic blather

actually you are being naive and short sighted but thankfully it is mostly bark and not bite concerning bitcoin...  lest we all practice strip mining, deforestation, toxic dumping, etc all to make a few more shekels before the other guy

you speak of someone who dreams of being rich, but no idea of wealth

LOL um ok.  Without comparing balance sheets here, I speak of reality.  Unless you want to completely ignore what is happening, you had better open your eyes as to what is going on and what is coming in the very near future.  There's no crying in bitcoin..those who want to hang on to some "gentleman's agreement" methodology for the "greater good" are just lining the pockets of someone else who has no such scruples.  Once you make exchange easy with "real" money, the mister nice guy days are over.  It's just going to get worse as bigger and bigger fish are introduced into the pond.

As for the "lest we practice yadda yadda"...the ONLY reason those things aren't a regular occurrence in most of the Western Industrialized world is because CENTRALIZED REGULATORY ENTITIES prevent it.  You know, the kind of thing that bitcoin prides itself in not having.  I encourage you to take a trip to China sometime and see what having next to no environmental regulations looks like in the modern world.

So, in summary....if you don't want a centralized organization calling the shots...be prepared for bare-knuckle no-hold-barred capitalism to rule the day and all that entails.  Appealing to some moral high ground "for the greater good" is going to do exactly dick when there is money to be made.  If the bitcoin network ultimately fails because of folks treating it as an actual investment vehicle with all the profit optimization strategies that implies...then it was not suitable to be used on the open market and deserves to die.  Simple as that.

[opentoe]

I think the days of hobby mining are coming to an end. Everything got so commercial and much more expensive. The days of using a plastic crate, wooden sticks, velcro, and duct tape I will surely miss. These days it's all commercial driven hardware coming from big game players. Seriously, in 2014 you will seriously need a huge amount of hashing power to make anything. There will always be that segment of people that have free electricity and space. Those are the ones that will keep upgrading and buying more hashing power. And even then its still like being addicted to drugs..you are always just chasing the high. You never really "cash out" and make good money. If only I bought tons of bitcoin a couple years ago. I have the money to buy another miner, but I don't trust KNC's hardware from all the issues I've been reading about. Right now where can you buy a miner and have it in your hands a few days later? You can't. Even now its still a completely pre-order business. Will we ever get the day we can browser a website and order a miner and actually have it ship the next day? Will that ever happen? Has hashfast started shipping? I want to buy another miner, but seriously there's not one company I trust out there or who has anything available soon. I was checking out Hashfast and their miner protection program...its nonsense because you are just paying extra up front for hardware you may need later on. I'm on the fence with making an order with KNC, but right now I may not break even with the Saturn I have now. Who would you order a miner from? Any real quality ones out there?

[CMMPro]

Anyone else not happy with 0.98 on a Saturn?

I ran it for a few days and my temperatures were slightly higher and my hashrate was lower. (252gh instead of 284gh)

I switched back just now and within an hour I am back up to 284gh.

[Mogumodz]

Make a Windows GUI front end for p2pool, then maybe computer-illiterate Windows users will use it, which will be good for everyone.

Maybe you could even sell it, since Windows users are often actually used to paying for software and maybe even prefer stuff they paid for to free stuff.

-MarkM-

Not all of us are computer illiterate. I like windows. I also like linux, but find it cumbersome for a great many things that windows is easy on. Both have their strengths and weaknesses. \

NOT having a Windows GUI based p2pool interface is a weakness of that protocol. Because no matter how much the linux and/or Mac fanboys would like this to be untrue, the vast majority of home computers are running windows. Excluding the biggest market out of prejudice or idealism is very akin to shooting yourself in the foot.

I personally like the donationware model for such things. "register for .xx and this nag goes away and I continue development" kind of thing.

Setting up a p2pool on windows is really easy. If it's a struggle then simply ask for help in the P2pool thread, or find a solid pool node and stick with it until you feel happy running a node. I'd even be up for getting as many people running P2Pool nodes as possible on Windows or Linux if they have dedicated hardware laying around.

But really, as with any pool, it's not just as simple as set it up and forget. It's all fine running a node only for yourself and losing money because your cat tripped over a cable or bitcoind crashes and you're away from the server, but just ask any pool operator what happens when anything looks or behaves out of the ordinary in their users minds.

P2pool does and has had windows binaries for a long time now. The front end you speak of is simple a webpage for the stats which multiple people now have tweaked and suited to their own needs with simple html tricks.

[texaslabrat]

Anyone else not happy with 0.98 on a Saturn?

I ran it for a few days and my temperatures were slightly higher and my hashrate was lower. (252gh instead of 284gh)

I switched back just now and within an hour I am back up to 284gh.

I've been extremely happy with .98, to be honest (though on jupiter, not saturn).  Are you sure your hashrate is actually lower at the pool (you need to watch it for 12+ hours to eliminate variance) or are you comparing the values as reported by cgminer and/or the gui page.  Because if it is the latter...you need to realize that the numbers reported there pre-.98 are including the hardware errors and I believe the rejected shares and therefore is artificially high compared to what is being submitted to the pool.

[CMMPro]

Identical at the pool....very strange that it was seemingly worse for me.

I ran for 48 hours on 0.98, my error rate was 4% at 252gh.

I just switched back to 0.97 and I have 2.5% at 284gh.

Both rates were very steady....the temperature was 2-3 degrees hotter on 0.98 but I don't see that as a big difference.

I fully power cycled the unit each time I changed the firmware.

[kronut]

Identical at the pool....very strange that it was seemingly worse for me.

I ran for 48 hours on 0.98, my error rate was 4% at 252gh.

I just switched back to 0.97 and I have 2.5% at 284gh.

Both rates were very steady....the temperature was 2-3 degrees hotter on 0.98 but I don't see that as a big difference.

I fully power cycled the unit each time I changed the firmware.

It's not just you, I had to go back to .97 with cgminer 3.6.6 to regain performance on my Saturn.

.98 disabled 7 of my cores constantly, gave 1% higher HW errors and dropped my WU considerably, the pool also showed 8-10gh/s less avg.

[DPoS]

A bunch of naive, idealistic blather

actually you are being naive and short sighted but thankfully it is mostly bark and not bite concerning bitcoin...  lest we all practice strip mining, deforestation, toxic dumping, etc all to make a few more shekels before the other guy

you speak of someone who dreams of being rich, but no idea of wealth

LOL um ok.  Without comparing balance sheets here, I speak of reality.  Unless you want to completely ignore what is happening, you had better open your eyes as to what is going on and what is coming in the very near future.  There's no crying in bitcoin..those who want to hang on to some "gentleman's agreement" methodology for the "greater good" are just lining the pockets of someone else who has no such scruples.  Once you make exchange easy with "real" money, the mister nice guy days are over.  It's just going to get worse as bigger and bigger fish are introduced into the pond.

As for the "lest we practice yadda yadda"...the ONLY reason those things aren't a regular occurrence in most of the Western Industrialized world is because CENTRALIZED REGULATORY ENTITIES prevent it.  You know, the kind of thing that bitcoin prides itself in not having.  I encourage you to take a trip to China sometime and see what having next to no environmental regulations looks like in the modern world.

So, in summary....if you don't want a centralized organization calling the shots...be prepared for bare-knuckle no-hold-barred capitalism to rule the day and all that entails.  Appealing to some moral high ground "for the greater good" is going to do exactly dick when there is money to be made.  If the bitcoin network ultimately fails because of folks treating it as an actual investment vehicle with all the profit optimization strategies that implies...then it was not suitable to be used on the open market and deserves to die.  Simple as that.

you blur my words into another argument... what I said, was all your talk of 'free market vs centralization' doesn't affect bitcoin as much as other industry practices that you ballyhoo about

which in itself is liberating for bitcoin

and you're head is stuck pretty deep if you think there are a lot of free markets anywhere these days. The 'open market' you are talking about is cronyism not capitalism.
 

 

[texaslabrat]

you blur my words into another argument... what I said, was all your talk of 'free market vs centralization' doesn't affect bitcoin as much as other industry practices that you ballyhoo about

which in itself is liberating for bitcoin

and you're head is stuck pretty deep if you think there are a lot of free markets anywhere these days. The 'open market' you are talking about is cronyism not capitalism.
 

 

I'm speaking specifically of bitcoin as a free market in case you missed it (which you apparently did).  And it is..for now.  Hence, the cutthroat profit-at-all-costs tactics that are beginning to surface and will continue to do so.  And no, I didn't blur anything..you made an analogy, and I pointed out how the analogy you gave actually proved my point.  So, thanks for that

Liberating..sure...if you are willing to participate with the same attitude as all the other sharks now entering the pool.  Guppies will be eaten.

[DPoS]

Liberating..sure...if you are willing to participate with the same attitude as all the other sharks now entering the pool.  Guppies will be eaten.

Don't forget that I'm the one who keeps reminding people of all the 'cost basis' tricks the higher stakes brings into mining.  The old BTC in / BTC out ROI is dead.

But you keep saying it is some pure capitalism at play when it isn't... that's the fairytale for the students.  It is high level financial acrobatics on good days, and pure scam/thief on bad ones that bring the new players cost basis well below the old guard

My point was that bitcoin survives either way..  other industries can go to hell pretty quick in that regard

 

[texaslabrat]

Liberating..sure...if you are willing to participate with the same attitude as all the other sharks now entering the pool.  Guppies will be eaten.

Don't forget that I'm the one who keeps reminding people of all the 'cost basis' tricks the higher stakes brings into mining.  The old BTC in / BTC out ROI is dead.

But you keep saying it is some pure capitalism at play when it isn't... that's the fairytale for the students.  It is high level financial acrobatics on good days, and pure scam/thief on bad ones that bring the new players cost basis well below the old guard

My point was that bitcoin survives either way..  other industries can go to hell pretty quick in that regard

 

But that's exactly the point you seem to be missing....at the moment the bitcoin ecosystem IS the textbook example of pure capitalism.  There are no constraints on entry into the market beyond the ability to pay.  What's your definition of capitalism that bitcoin doesn't fit?    It's those who pine for the "let's all do what's right for the network" who are tying to resist that reality.  Those days are over. They died when bitcoin spiked during the Cyprus panic and the Big Boys took notice. If bitcoin survives despite this..then it was suitable for use as a decentralized global currency.  If its treatment in this pure capitalism environment causes it to implode due to over-centralization in the pursuit of profit, then it was always destined to fail due to human nature.  Only if by doing the "right thing" that profit can be maximized at the same time will bitcoin survive.  It's possible, but it will take a lot of work to de-incentivize the consolidation of hashing power and the production of mining equipment.  And the work needed to accomplish THAT should ideally be profitable itself to make sure someone actually does it.

And by "survive" I mean bitcoin remains meaningfully relevant in the global economy.  There are plenty of examples of technically "functioning" alt-coins which are not relevant and thus have "died".

[CMMPro]

Identical at the pool....very strange that it was seemingly worse for me.

I ran for 48 hours on 0.98, my error rate was 4% at 252gh.

I just switched back to 0.97 and I have 2.5% at 284gh.

Both rates were very steady....the temperature was 2-3 degrees hotter on 0.98 but I don't see that as a big difference.

I fully power cycled the unit each time I changed the firmware.

It's not just you, I had to go back to .97 with cgminer 3.6.6 to regain performance on my Saturn.

.98 disabled 7 of my cores constantly, gave 1% higher HW errors and dropped my WU considerably, the pool also showed 8-10gh/s less avg.

Thanks for the info! I was wondering why it was just me....seems like 99% of people are happy with 0.98.

[arousedrhino]

Why don't you just admit you were wrong, and stop this nonsense?  It is clear that who gets the reward for a block, and who "solves" it are two different questions.  In pool mining, a group of people agree to share block rewards regardless of which individual miner solved the block.  That agreement obviously has no bearing on who actually solved a given block.

If you think "that who gets the reward for a block, and who "solves" it are two different questions", then I am certain you do not comprehend that even in pool "mining" there must be an entity to receive the reward, what is not the pool participant. The reward needs to be transmitted (first transaction) to the entity which "solves" the block. You are failing to understand that the receiver (thus the "solver") it is not the pool participant.

How does Eligius pay out directly from the block then if it must receive the block first???

[arousedrhino]

Centralization is the enemy of this experiment.  "Business men" that mine for profit without regard for the network are not a friend to the experiment if their efforts result in too much centralization (usually a goal of a for-profit company).

Centralization of what?

 

The reason this is not off-topic, is because this forum is about mining.

If you are mining, especially with powerful units, you should understand:

1.  The decentralized nature, design and intent of the BTC network.

2.  The cause and effect of a 51% attack.

3.  The responsibility of miners and pools in maintaining balance.

Don't take my word for it, do your own research.

The argument was made that the large pools have checks put in place to mitigate such a disaster.  Simply making that statement is an acknowledgement that they have the _ability_ to tip the scale (hence the countermeasure).  Why would you or I ever want to give one person or entity that much power and control over _our_ Bitcoin network?  Has anyone here ever heard of a countermeasure failing (BP Oil in the Gulf)?

There are so many viable pools to choose from, and if you are a business it is more profitable to build your own pool (fees go to you).  If you pack heavy hash power, which most in this forum do, it makes so much more sense to  be a part of the solution rather then a part of the problem.

The irony is that in the end the pay is the same.

This FORUM is about mining this THREAD is about KNC Mining Hardware, go start your own thread to discuss your OWN topic.

[texaslabrat]

This is also a great post, and I agree with most of it.  I do not agree that we are in a pure capitalism scenario regarding mining, due to a lot of external influence on the physical goods required from the non-BTC world.  The ASIC problem is a great example of this.  CPU (and less so GPU) mining was much more "pure capitalism" in the sense the resources had the same availability to everyone with the same dollar bill.  These resource availability problems are artifacts of a corrupted/centralized resource system that mining is now dependent on.  The minute we diverged from commodity hardware, that was when the dollar bills became unequal in a big way, this is an external influence that probably cannot be avoided or corrected for at this point without changing the PoW - I have seen no indications that any Bitcoin dev has even considered this a major problem.

I think if we mapped cryptocurrencies from most to least likely to centralize money creation/creating an eventual monetary hierarchy it would go Bitcoin (PoW is ASIC friendly) ---> Litecoin (somewhat ASIC resistant PoW) (some unknown CPU x86/ARM-only PoW, no GPU/ASIC) --> Peercoin (PoW declines into a proof of stake system)

This is a really interesting topic, sorry to poop in the KnC thread though.

But this is just a transition from utilizing non-scarce resources to utilizing scarce resources.  The apropos of "capitalism" does not change...capitalism does not imply fairness.  It only implies the ability of capital to be brought to bear in a market unfettered by forces outside that market.  The market itself then shapes the effectiveness of that capital depending on the conditions at play at that time. Throughout the process of moving to an ASIC world, money talked.  If you had enough money, you could get equipment pretty much at any point.  Taking it to extreme..if you had a LOT of cash sitting around, you could have commissioned your very own ASIC device from scratch.  Whether or not taking such actions would be wise or profitable is irrelevant..the fact is that there was no law or other artificial constraint to keep you from doing so.  Only market forces (price of bitcoin, price of semiconductor fabrication, time to market, etc) dictate on whether that is the best use of your capital.  

In the case of gpus'..there was no scarcity except that which was artificially created by AMD (and to a lesser degree nvidia) via set price per item thus in that vein the GPU era was actually less "pure capitalism" since there was no supply/demand curve at play within the narrow scope of the mining community. The term that is more applicable to this era (and CPU) is "democratized" since everyone had the same ability to enter the market for the same price per machine, not "pure" capitalism.  Scaling that to multiple machines and farms..then yes, it becomes a bit more capitalistic as it rewarded the availability of additional capital resources with additional hash power and ostensibly greater revenue and profit (assuming profit margin being equal or greater due to economy of scale). Later, in the transition to ASICs (and FPGA to a large degree) true scarcity was a factor thus at a fixed price for equipment you had more money chasing a fixed number of devices.  The dollar bills never became "unequal"..rather the availability of mining hardware at price points that were deemed "acceptable" became scarce thus queue position and/or "cronyism" became the tie-breakers..  If one was willing to up the bid price (following simple supply/demand curve theory), you could have as much mining equipment as you wanted even if it was second hand or created custom just for you.

That's about as clear cut capitalism as it gets, IMHO.

Anyway, yeah I agree we've probably hijacked the thread for long enough.  I'll just close by saying that folks need to assume that everyone is going to act in a way that maximizes their own personal gain....and plan accordingly.  If they don't and wind up getting burned for trying to be "nice"...they only have themselves to blame at this point.

[timmmers]

Centralization is the enemy of this experiment.  "Business men" that mine for profit without regard for the network are not a friend to the experiment if their efforts result in too much centralization (usually a goal of a for-profit company).

Centralization of what?

 

The reason this is not off-topic, is because this forum is about mining.

If you are mining, especially with powerful units, you should understand:

1.  The decentralized nature, design and intent of the BTC network.

2.  The cause and effect of a 51% attack.

3.  The responsibility of miners and pools in maintaining balance.

Don't take my word for it, do your own research.

The argument was made that the large pools have checks put in place to mitigate such a disaster.  Simply making that statement is an acknowledgement that they have the _ability_ to tip the scale (hence the countermeasure).  Why would you or I ever want to give one person or entity that much power and control over _our_ Bitcoin network?  Has anyone here ever heard of a countermeasure failing (BP Oil in the Gulf)?

There are so many viable pools to choose from, and if you are a business it is more profitable to build your own pool (fees go to you).  If you pack heavy hash power, which most in this forum do, it makes so much more sense to  be a part of the solution rather then a part of the problem.

The irony is that in the end the pay is the same.

This FORUM is about mining this THREAD is about KNC Mining Hardware, go start your own thread to discuss your OWN topic.

+1

Reason ? Because some people come here thinking they may find help on the KNC miners this thread is about and all they see in the last few pages is idealistic banter waaaay off topic which makes the information they came to find bloody hard to find.

As for the question of compensation for late delivery, you won't hear a word from them until they want to dell you something else. Then they will be back bragging about how awesome they were this time round and lessons learned. Two parts to this company, the back room boys who know their stuff and delivered, and the KNC guys who are snake oil salesmen and have fucked up every aspect they were involved in...and their main speciality according to their website would make me laugh if it hadn't been so wrong. Communication and troubleshooting are far from their strengths.

If it's  true that they started shipping November units...that's a knife in the back for all of us who paid so much more on the basis we'd at least get a month grace period. Some people here won't even have had a full week.

[shmadz]

Ouch, hard to follow some random wall of text that I didn't bother to read. Apologies in advance.

I cannot seem to get consistent results of more than 490 with my Jupiter. Temps in the long term do not seem to matter much.

I have heard of a enable cores thing, could someone quickly link me to some info on that so I don't have to read through 200 pages of this crap?




---- better yet, if anyone can link me to a consolidated, frequently updated thread specifically about increasing the performance of your Jupiter please PM me. This thread is ridiculous.

==== better still, a sticky with links to firmware downloads, FAQs, and all that!

[jmevz]

Ouch, hard to follow some random wall of text that I didn't bother to read. Apologies in advance.

I cannot seem to get consistent results of more than 490 with my Jupiter. Temps in the long term do not seem to matter much.

I have heard of a enable cores thing, could someone quickly link me to some info on that so I don't have to read through 200 pages of this crap?




---- better yet, if anyone can link me to a consolidated, frequently updated thread specifically about increasing the performance of your Jupiter please PM me. This thread is ridiculous.

==== better still, a sticky with links to firmware downloads, FAQs, and all that!

I just raised a specific thread for Mercury for this purpose. I think it's a good idea to have separate threads per device for performance, setup, etc discussion and yes, this thread is getting ridiculous to follow. I'm too lazy to link my thread though lol, it's in mining/hardware forum