Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[Paladin69]

If KnC has 70% of the hashrate, then they were very irrisponsible in how much hashrate they brought online.  This trend will continue.

10TH next-gen miners sound awesome until you realize your piece of the 3600 per day coin lotto keeps getting smaller.  ASIC sure turned mining into a ponzi for the benefit of old money.

[CYPER]

Bar, there is a saying that perfectly fits the situation: "If you want to do something, you’ll find a way. If you don’t, you’ll find an excuse."
They found an excuse, I found a way 

Did they give you alternatives? Again your way might not have been viable.

You are close enough to them the RMA shouldn't take but a day or two max just send it in!

No alternatives were offered. Liam was very adamant over the phone, not even giving a reason why a BTC deposit is not a viable option. He just said: "we are not going to change our RMA procedures" in a way that made it clear they don't want to work with their customers.

Sending it back is a risk I am not willing to take: it can take 3 days, it can take a week. The lost revenue while my machine is offline will never get recouped back from the increased hashing performance. At least not at this stage.

[Bargraphics]

So KNC would not accept even Bitcoins as a security in order to send working boards first as to minimize downtime for customers.
From where I am standing it looks like they are trying hard to work against their customers by refusing to come up with a RMA solution that works for both sides.
I can not think of a single reason why they would not accept BTC as a security in order to send working boards first, apart from trying to discourage people from using the RMA service.

This has to do with people trying to "Game" the system.

Maybe they don't want to be liable with your BTC or want to deal with customers saying they never got the BTC back (Lieing to game the system)

RMA has always been, send it back and they send you a new one. This isn't a new concept. While I understand the frustration of potentially losing money while it is RMA'd that is the nature of the beast and their hands are tied.

That's fucking stupid.  Most tech companies have an advanced RMA process to charge a CC temporarily.

Yeah bar, your wrong here. KnC is the first tech company I have dealt with in a while that DOESNT offer an advanced RMA

Never have experienced this. My apologies.

However you believe that when providing "Money Printing Machines" there should be advanced RMA? Sorry blame human nature.

[Syke]

If KnC has 70% of the hashrate, then they were very irrisponsible in how much hashrate they brought online.  This trend will continue.

With the network roughly 4 TH/s, 70% would be 2.8 TH/s, or roughly 5000 Jupiters. But they shipped a lot of units slower than Jupiters. So lets say roughly 10,000 units shipped. Is that in line with their shipping announcements?

[Syke]

https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-63

The computing performance of Jupiter is 3600% higher than the closest commercial competitor.

WTF?

[Bargraphics]

If KnC has 70% of the hashrate, then they were very irrisponsible in how much hashrate they brought online.  This trend will continue.

With the network roughly 4 TH/s, 70% would be 2.8 TH/s, or roughly 5000 Jupiters. But they shipped a lot of units slower than Jupiters. So lets say roughly 10,000 units shipped. Is that in line with their shipping announcements?

4PH*

2.8PH*

That is quite a bit of Hashrate but understand they though each unit Jupiter would originally only do 350GH or 87.5GH/Chip

Let's assume they had 20,000 Chips - 1.75PH

https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-63

The computing performance of Jupiter is 3600% higher than the closest commercial competitor.

WTF?

I'm assuming they are talking about Chips

I believe BFL has the next "Most GH Per Chip" (Regardless of power consumption

https://products.butterflylabs.com/65nm-asic-bitcoin-mining-chip.html
BFL Chip - 4GH

550 / 4 = 137.5
KnC Chip - 137.5 GH

3437.5% increase

[greek_hephaestus]

https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-63


"Unbeknown to the community we are currently developing the next generation product in 20nm/16nm process with Alchip "

They have time to post such news, but don't have the time to participate in their own forums and help people out on their devilish products? They aren't thinking people are going to buy from them again, do they? Is making an announcement like that just a start of mind controlling techniques in the marketing world? Also, if you tried to visit that link www.ast.com that is IN their news publication it doesn't even work.

It is www.ast.co.il

[augustocroppo]

https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-63

The computing performance of Jupiter is 3600% higher than the closest commercial competitor.

WTF?

 

This new 28nm ASIC chip has revolutionized the Bitcoin mining industry. The computing performance of Jupiter is 3600% higher than the closest commercial competitor. The state of the art KnCMiner Jupiter is having a profound effect that’s resonated throughout the Bitcoin mining industry, since the completion of delivery of their first shipment this week.

Yeah, the "profound effect" was the sky-rocket of difficulty, a very important factor which should be made aware by them to every new customer. However, they are more interested to make this stupid statements and keep hidden the real facts, which in turn will guarantee the sales of more and more devices to misinformed customers.

By the way, the "state of the art" is another marketing bullshit. The firmware for their products is still under version 1.0. Moreover, as evidenced by this topic, many KnCminer customers had to open the "miner" cases and deal with internal components to guarantee the product would work as best as possible. The promise of a plug and play product never came to existence. There is not such thing as "state of the art" product among KnCminer offers.

Now, where the "3600%" statement come from, I have no idea...

[Paladin69]

So KNC would not accept even Bitcoins as a security in order to send working boards first as to minimize downtime for customers.
From where I am standing it looks like they are trying hard to work against their customers by refusing to come up with a RMA solution that works for both sides.
I can not think of a single reason why they would not accept BTC as a security in order to send working boards first, apart from trying to discourage people from using the RMA service.

This has to do with people trying to "Game" the system.

Maybe they don't want to be liable with your BTC or want to deal with customers saying they never got the BTC back (Lieing to game the system)

RMA has always been, send it back and they send you a new one. This isn't a new concept. While I understand the frustration of potentially losing money while it is RMA'd that is the nature of the beast and their hands are tied.

That's fucking stupid.  Most tech companies have an advanced RMA process to charge a CC temporarily.

Yeah bar, your wrong here. KnC is the first tech company I have dealt with in a while that DOESNT offer an advanced RMA

Never have experienced this. My apologies.

However you believe that when providing "Money Printing Machines" there should be advanced RMA? Sorry blame human nature.

Especially when they print less than what was spent.

Oh well.  You got yours, bar.  I'm sure if I was in your position with a Day1 order and everything luckily worked out, I would proudly lick my KnC kneepads too.

[timmmers]

The plain truth for most people is that without the current rise in the price of bitcoins we'd be crying. KNC will be doing well off that too, both from orders paid in BTC and from their own mining. They can't seem to lose...even fucking shipping made them a profit ffs. 

[Bargraphics]

The plain truth for most people is that without the current rise in the price of bitcoins we'd be crying. KNC will be doing well off that too, both from orders paid in BTC and from their own mining. They can't seem to lose...even fucking shipping made them a profit ffs.  

What is your problem man, they are the fucking company selling the shovels.

Why would you want them to lose, why would you assume they would lose after delivery, what do you not understand about this situation.

All ASIC Vendors that have a product to actually sell (And some that don't) Will Win regardless if miners do or not.

are you are suggesting KnC shouldn't get a profit even though they delivered around 70% of the BTC Hashrate?

[bobsag3]

So KNC would not accept even Bitcoins as a security in order to send working boards first as to minimize downtime for customers.
From where I am standing it looks like they are trying hard to work against their customers by refusing to come up with a RMA solution that works for both sides.
I can not think of a single reason why they would not accept BTC as a security in order to send working boards first, apart from trying to discourage people from using the RMA service.

This has to do with people trying to "Game" the system.

Maybe they don't want to be liable with your BTC or want to deal with customers saying they never got the BTC back (Lieing to game the system)

RMA has always been, send it back and they send you a new one. This isn't a new concept. While I understand the frustration of potentially losing money while it is RMA'd that is the nature of the beast and their hands are tied.

That's fucking stupid.  Most tech companies have an advanced RMA process to charge a CC temporarily.

Yeah bar, your wrong here. KnC is the first tech company I have dealt with in a while that DOESNT offer an advanced RMA

Never have experienced this. My apologies.

However you believe that when providing "Money Printing Machines" there should be advanced RMA? Sorry blame human nature.

No, I expect when my customers and I spend 10k+ on a machine, regardless of the industry, to have support to go with it. Ive been in the IT industry my entire life, and not even HP's RMA process (one of the worst in the industry) is on the ultra-low level of KnC. Ive never seen a RMA processes handled so poorly in my life. No communication, no flexibility, nothing. I would NOT buy another product from this company, not when they are too busy talking about the next thing to fix their current product. Im surprised paypal has not nuked their account from Orbit.

I expect advanced RMA when dealing with something time sensitive, let alone expensive. My dell's have a 24 hour turn around time, IE I get replacement parts within 24 hours or I get some serious compensation. Especially since KNC only sells to "businesses". You think any real business would put up with this kind of crap from one of its suppliers?

[Bargraphics]

No, I expect when my customers and I spend 10k+ on a machine, regardless of the industry, to have support to go with it. Ive been in the IT industry my entire life, and not even HP's RMA process (one of the worst in the industry) is on the ultra-low level of KnC. Ive never seen a RMA processes handled so poorly in my life. No communication, no flexibility, nothing. I would NOT buy another product from this company, not when they are too busy talking about the next thing to fix their current product. Im surprised paypal has not nuked their account from Orbit.

I expect advanced RMA when dealing with something time sensitive, let alone expensive. My dell's have a 24 hour turn around time, IE I get replacement parts within 24 hours or I get some serious compensation. Especially since KNC only sells to "businesses". You think any real business would put up with this kind of crap from one of its suppliers?

Are you comparing a ~42 Billion Dollar company with a 10 Million Dollar company that just released it's first product?

Are you comparing a computer manufacturer who has hundreds of thousands of extra parts laying around to RMA with vs a company who might have a couple hundred?

Again you are comparing a Dell which has a fixed cost that doesn't fluctuate in the 24 hours that you RMA it, that doesn't have any sort of "Pre-Order" line that can be gamed tarnishing the image of the company.

I understand that you don't want to lose money while it is being RMA'd and they should as a company send some sort of compensation per Board that is sent back in based on current difficulty. This will be the only part that I agree with.

Is one of your boards completely dead or is it under performing?

[-Redacted-]

I have to second that.  It took me over a week of playing the game of "answering stupid questions one per day" before I finally managed to get an RMA-number.  Now that I've returned the defective module to them, I've heard nothing - zip - zero for another almost two weeks.

I should have had a replacement module in my hands the day after I reported it as being broken.  But no, it was "For today, try it under firmware version 96.1 and tell me what happens" - still doesn't work.  Next day "We'll be releasing firmware version .98 tomorrow, try it with than and see what happens" - still broken.  Next day "Try running it for 24 hours to see if the problem clears up" - still broken, and on and on, etc., etc, etc.

[Micky25]

RMA has always been, send it back and they send you a new one. This isn't a new concept. While I understand the frustration of potentially losing money while it is RMA'd that is the nature of the beast and their hands are tied.

BFSB did advance RMA for me, in exchange for a bitcoin deposit. Went flawless, for both. This isn't a big thing to do, but extraordinary well received by customers, especially in the time-critical ASIC-Business.

To cherish the idea of bitcoin and one of its main advantages, fast transfer of values, it would be an easy win for both KNC and their customers to establish a comfortable RMA process.

RMA request -> bitcoin deposit -> delivery of replacement item -> return of faulty item -> reception and verification -> release deposit.

win-win, easy-easy

[Bargraphics]

I have to second that.  It took me over a week of playing the game of "answering stupid questions one per day" before I finally managed to get an RMA-number.  Now that I've returned the defective module to them, I've heard nothing - zip - zero for another almost two weeks.

I should have had a replacement module in my hands the day after I reported it as being broken.  But no, it was "For today, try it under firmware version 96.1 and tell me what happens" - still doesn't work.  Next day "We'll be releasing firmware version .98 tomorrow, try it with than and see what happens" - still broken.  Next day "Try running it for 24 hours to see if the problem clears up" - still broken, and on and on, etc., etc, etc.

Wow,

Now we have actual timelines on the RMA process. Most people are complaining before they even send them in.

Thank you for including a time frame. Are there others out there that are having a similar wait time after sending in their unit?

It would be nice to collect actual data instead of conjecture and emotions.

[Bargraphics]

RMA has always been, send it back and they send you a new one. This isn't a new concept. While I understand the frustration of potentially losing money while it is RMA'd that is the nature of the beast and their hands are tied.

BFSB did advance RMA for me, in exchange for a bitcoin deposit. Went flawless, for both. This isn't a big thing to do, but extraordinary well received by customers, especially in the time-critical ASIC-Business.

To cherish the idea of bitcoin and one of its main advantages, fast transfer of values, it would be an easy win for both KNC and their customers to establish a comfortable RMA process.

RMA request -> bitcoin deposit -> delivery of replacement item -> return of faulty item -> reception and verification -> release deposit.

win-win, easy-easy

Send KnC and email with this information, explain how their competitor is doing business and maybe they will change.

However a 25GH bitfury module is a little less risky than a 130GH KnC Module.

[-Redacted-]

No, I expect when my customers and I spend 10k+ on a machine, regardless of the industry, to have support to go with it. Ive been in the IT industry my entire life, and not even HP's RMA process (one of the worst in the industry) is on the ultra-low level of KnC. Ive never seen a RMA processes handled so poorly in my life. No communication, no flexibility, nothing. I would NOT buy another product from this company, not when they are too busy talking about the next thing to fix their current product. Im surprised paypal has not nuked their account from Orbit.

I expect advanced RMA when dealing with something time sensitive, let alone expensive. My dell's have a 24 hour turn around time, IE I get replacement parts within 24 hours or I get some serious compensation. Especially since KNC only sells to "businesses". You think any real business would put up with this kind of crap from one of its suppliers?

Are you comparing a ~42 Billion Dollar company with a 10 Million Dollar company that just released it's first product?

Are you comparing a computer manufacturer who has hundreds of thousands of extra parts laying around to RMA with vs a company who might have a couple hundred?

Again you are comparing a Dell which has a fixed cost that doesn't fluctuate in the 24 hours that you RMA it, that doesn't have any sort of "Pre-Order" line that can be gamed tarnishing the image of the company.

I understand that you don't want to lose money while it is being RMA'd and they should as a company send some sort of compensation per Board that is sent back in based on current difficulty. This will be the only part that I agree with.

Is one of your boards completely dead or is it under performing?

I'm going to swipe bobsag3's response and respond...

Depends on what you call "under performing."  My module would run for almost exactly 30 minutes at 70 Gh/s and then shut the machine down.  Period.  Had to power off and back on to get the Jupiter to come back up.  30 minutes later, dead again.  I isolated the problem to one particular module, even swapped it into another machine - 30 minutes later, machine dead.  Running the module by itself - 70-80 Gh/s, and machine dead after 31 minutes.  Tried every version of firmware - same result, module would run for 30 minutes about, then kill the machine it was in.  Every time.  Every version.  Every machine.

I couldn't seem to get the point across to customer service that the module would run for almost exactly 30 minutes, and then kill the machine it was running on.  I spent a week trying to explain the problem, then finally got fed up with it and "strongly requested an RMA" after playing "what happens if" games for a week and a day.  Returned the module, and it has disappeared - no acknowledgement of it arriving, no status, no return shipping info TWO WEEKS after the tracking number shows it was in their hands.

[Bargraphics]

I'm going to swipe bobsag3's response and respond...

Depends on what you call "under performing."  My module would run for almost exactly 30 minutes at 70 Gh/s and then shut the machine down.  Period.  Had to power off and back on to get the Jupiter to come back up.  30 minutes later, dead again.  I isolated the problem to one particular module, even swapped it into another machine - 30 minutes later, machine dead.  Running the module by itself - 70-80 Gh/s, and machine dead after 31 minutes.  Tried every version of firmware - same result, module would run for 30 minutes about, then kill the machine it was in.  Every time.  Every version.  Every machine.

I couldn't seem to get the point across to customer service that the module would run for almost exactly 30 minutes, and then kill the machine it was running on.  I spent a week trying to explain the problem, then finally got fed up with it and "strongly requested an RMA" after playing "what happens if" games for a week and a day.  Returned the module, and it has disappeared - no acknowledgement of it arriving, no status, no return shipping info TWO WEEKS after the tracking number shows it was in their hands.

That is unfortunate,

I'm sure you've tried to reach out to them and they can't find it?

Send Bitcoinorama a PM and see if he might be able to look into it, also email sam directly as I'm positive he would want to remedy something like this asap as I imagine this isn't how they would like to do business.

[Bitcoinorama]

I'm going to swipe bobsag3's response and respond...

Depends on what you call "under performing."  My module would run for almost exactly 30 minutes at 70 Gh/s and then shut the machine down.  Period.  Had to power off and back on to get the Jupiter to come back up.  30 minutes later, dead again.  I isolated the problem to one particular module, even swapped it into another machine - 30 minutes later, machine dead.  Running the module by itself - 70-80 Gh/s, and machine dead after 31 minutes.  Tried every version of firmware - same result, module would run for 30 minutes about, then kill the machine it was in.  Every time.  Every version.  Every machine.

I couldn't seem to get the point across to customer service that the module would run for almost exactly 30 minutes, and then kill the machine it was running on.  I spent a week trying to explain the problem, then finally got fed up with it and "strongly requested an RMA" after playing "what happens if" games for a week and a day.  Returned the module, and it has disappeared - no acknowledgement of it arriving, no status, no return shipping info TWO WEEKS after the tracking number shows it was in their hands.

That is unfortunate,

I'm sure you've tried to reach out to them and they can't find it?

Send Bitcoinorama a PM and see if he might be able to look into it, also email sam directly as I'm positive he would want to remedy something like this asap as I imagine this isn't how they would like to do business.

Everything that's come in has gone out. What's the RMA? I'll look into it.