Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[helmax]

if knc sell jupiter is  break network protection

[Phoenix1969]

Advice for friends from personal experience on "BitPlastic"....   don't do it!

[Phoenix1969]

if knc sell jupiter is  break network protection

Sorry, but that's bullshit.
We just had 30 and  20% diff increases without KVC delivering a thing, which totally negates the statement.

[RickJamesBTC]

if knc sell jupiter is  break network protection

Sorry, but that's bullshit.
We just had 15 and  20% diff increases without KVC delivering a thing, which totally negates the statement.

Helmet is just confused. Also, confusing to read. Network protection is silly, we all want more miners, they should be selling them to us. They could have destroyed the competition if they saturated the market with the original orders, and shipped from immediate stock thereafter. It's a competitive game, let us be competitive.

[Epoch]

if knc sell jupiter is  break network protection

Sorry, but that's bullshit.
We just had 15 and  20% diff increases without KVC delivering a thing, which totally negates the statement.

Helmet is just confused. Also, confusing to read. Network protection is silly, we all want more miners, they should be selling them to us. They could have destroyed the competition if they saturated the market with the original orders, and shipped from immediate stock thereafter. It's a competitive game, let us be competitive.

Rick, you have a frightening "arms race" mentality there. 

[Bogart]

Does anyone notice that their miners generally runs better until the first flushwork?

I get around 1% HW errors, and after a flushwork occurs, it shoots up to 3-4%. The HW ticker goes from 1-7 a jump to upwards of 50 a jump.

YES, I noticed that all along...   I think the flush-work....still needs work!
****
It seems to "Flush" with every single block detected, and not for just the pool you are on, which causes the errror rate to be higher than it has to be...drastically.
IMHO...that's the biggest tweak needed atm

You are way off on this one...

Flushwork has to run with every block detected on the network. Blocks are built on top of each other network wide, not just on your pool.

Hmm, I still respectfully disagree. Here's why...
I never had that problem mining with GPU's... and it never flushed anything other than our own "Stale" shares.

In pool mining...We don't solve blocks for other pools, we work on our own blocks, and by running flush-work every time a block is detected, you literally loose every workshare you are currently solving, even though your pool hasn't found it's block yet.

My pants are literally loose.

But no, all miners (and pools) are working to add a new block to the end of THE block chain.  Pools don't each work on their own separate chain.

Each time a new block is added to the chain, all miners (and pools) stop their current work, and begin new work, trying to extend the now longer chain.

The block trying to be added is unique to the pool, but the chain it is being added to is not.

(There are rare exceptions involving hostile miners, but let's not complicate the discussion with those cases.)

[CYPER]

Any news for new jupiter batch from knc ? Thanks.

Yes, it sold out today for under 10 minutes.

Were you just making this up? Or did it actually happen?

He's making it up.

It was under 8 minutes.

Btw the price KNC decided to sell them for today was very good. $2500 was a good call  

[RickJamesBTC]

if knc sell jupiter is  break network protection

Sorry, but that's bullshit.
We just had 15 and  20% diff increases without KVC delivering a thing, which totally negates the statement.

Helmet is just confused. Also, confusing to read. Network protection is silly, we all want more miners, they should be selling them to us. They could have destroyed the competition if they saturated the market with the original orders, and shipped from immediate stock thereafter. It's a competitive game, let us be competitive.

Rick, you have a frightening "arms race" mentality there. 

Guess what, that's reality.

[dhenson]

if knc sell jupiter is  break network protection

Sorry, but that's bullshit.
We just had 15 and  20% diff increases without KVC delivering a thing, which totally negates the statement.

Helmet is just confused. Also, confusing to read. Network protection is silly, we all want more miners, they should be selling them to us. They could have destroyed the competition if they saturated the market with the original orders, and shipped from immediate stock thereafter. It's a competitive game, let us be competitive.

Rick, you have a frightening "arms race" mentality there. 

What do you expect... He's Rick James.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuT7S-qpLfs

[Phoenix1969]

Does anyone notice that their miners generally runs better until the first flushwork?

I get around 1% HW errors, and after a flushwork occurs, it shoots up to 3-4%. The HW ticker goes from 1-7 a jump to upwards of 50 a jump.

YES, I noticed that all along...   I think the flush-work....still needs work!
****
It seems to "Flush" with every single block detected, and not for just the pool you are on, which causes the errror rate to be higher than it has to be...drastically.
IMHO...that's the biggest tweak needed atm

You are way off on this one...

Flushwork has to run with every block detected on the network. Blocks are built on top of each other network wide, not just on your pool.

Hmm, I still respectfully disagree. Here's why...
I never had that problem mining with GPU's... and it never flushed anything other than our own "Stale" shares.

In pool mining...We don't solve blocks for other pools, we work on our own blocks, and by running flush-work every time a block is detected, you literally loose every workshare you are currently solving, even though your pool hasn't found it's block yet.

My pants are literally loose.

But no, all miners (and pools) are working to add a new block to the end of THE block chain.  Pools don't each work on their own separate chain.

Each time a new block is added to the chain, all miners (and pools) stop their current work, and begin new work, trying to extend the now longer chain.

The block trying to be added is unique to the pool, but the chain it is being added to is not.

(There are rare exceptions involving hostile miners, but let's not complicate the discussion with those cases.)

hmm, ok...
Try this....   look/watch the error rate jump @ flushwork times.
Given the jumps, why would the dumped/flushed shares contribute to errors if the pool didn't want them?
You will also notice the lack of a jump in errors during the flushwork when your pool is finding the block.
I hear what you are saying, but the errors I monitored over the course of mining say otherwise.
I can point my Raedon card at the same pool, on a separate account, and physically see the difference.
Flushwork on it has no bearing on error rates on the card, and certainly shouldn't on a knc machine either, but it does, which proofs a glitch in flushwork imho
I'd rather get rejected shares at the appropriate time than have it flushed at every single block sniffed on the chain, or at least try it.
The machines also solve shares quicker than flushwork is performed it looks to me.
This needs tested... no flushwork at all  /vs/ flushwork
The higher the diff your shares are, the more relevant it becomes
This is all irrelevant really if your pool pays for stale shares.... every flushed share is a loss!

[dhenson]

I'm no expert and I haven't been following the conversation, but doesn't it have to do with the way the device is handling the flush?

Scenario:
The pool issues lets say 512 shares to you for Block A.  Part way through processing the hashes on those shares, Block A is found and the pool tells you to flush and also gives you 512 additional shares for Block B.  If you turn around and submit the hashes you've completed for Block A, they would be errors as they are for the previously (already completed) block.

Depending on the firmware for your device, the flush work may be handled in different ways.  It seems to me that the way KNC has/is handling the flush work has been problematic from the beginning (based on little tidbits I've read without a deep understanding of the process).

I would actually like to know if my understanding is flawed so please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Phoenix1969]

I'm no expert and I haven't been following the conversation, but doesn't it have to do with the way the device is handling the flush?

Scenario:
The pool issues lets say 512 shares to you for Block A.  Part way through processing the hashes on those shares, Block A is found and the pool tells you to flush and also gives you 512 additional shares for Block B.  If you turn around and submit the hashes you've completed for Block A, they would be errors as they are for the previously (already completed) block.

Depending on the firmware for your device, the flush work may be handled in different ways.  It seems to me that the way KNC has/is handling the flush work has been problematic from the beginning (based on little tidbits I've read without a deep understanding of the process).

I would actually like to know if my understanding is flawed so please correct me if I'm wrong.

if your pool pays for stale/rejected shares....yes, something like that, but some others don't pay for them
and yes... Flushwork was problematic from beginning...   they improved the situation by shortening the flushtime... but I really think no flush at all would be faster, and if your pool pays for rejected/stale shares, you LOOSE all those btc with every flush, because your pool would have paid you for them!

[dhenson]

I'm no expert and I haven't been following the conversation, but doesn't it have to do with the way the device is handling the flush?

Scenario:
The pool issues lets say 512 shares to you for Block A.  Part way through processing the hashes on those shares, Block A is found and the pool tells you to flush and also gives you 512 additional shares for Block B.  If you turn around and submit the hashes you've completed for Block A, they would be errors as they are for the previously (already completed) block.

Depending on the firmware for your device, the flush work may be handled in different ways.  It seems to me that the way KNC has/is handling the flush work has been problematic from the beginning (based on little tidbits I've read without a deep understanding of the process).

I would actually like to know if my understanding is flawed so please correct me if I'm wrong.

if your pool pays for stale/rejected shares....yes, something like that, but some others don't pay for them
and yes... Flushwork was problematic from beginning...   they improved the situation by shortening the flushtime... but I really think no flush at all would be faster, and if your pool pays for rejected shares, you LOOSE all those btc with every flush, because your pool would have paid you for them!

I've never heard of a pool paying for rejected shares.  I've heard of pools paying for orphaned blocks but not rejected shares.

Can you give me an example so I can look into it?

[Phoenix1969]

Henson...   http://imgur.com/w3XpJuy  (50BTC)

**Maybe a simple "flushwork checkbox option" on the GUI would help things until the rest is figured out.
We could then check/uncheck the box depending on how your pool pays out.

sry to go on and on about it... but I'm thinking just a minor code/config tweak could increase our income potential here.  

[merv77]

what I thought 'network protection' meant is to protect your share (existing KNC customer share) of the network.

in other words if your share of the network is 1TH, and the network rose 20% you should add 20% to your existing 1TH which would add up to be 1.2TH.
therefore the BTC you generate stays the same.  This is my opinion of how 'network protection' should work.  And this should only apply to existing customers who actually own miners only and shouldn't be sold to the general public for it to work.  If a 'network protection' batch were to be sold to anyone that wouldn't protect your share of the network but in fact make it worse for existing customers that own miners.  I know this sounds like an expensive exercise but this is the theory behind the 'network protection' statement. 

Also I think why KNC have not or are hesitant in selling Jupiters is because they don't want existing Neptune customers asking for refunds just to buy Jupiters.  If KNC did offer Jupiters again then they should remove the refund option on Neptunes.  Or if this sounds to drastic for some, then KNC should say we will not sell Jupiters to people who have asked for refunds in the past.

[RickJamesBTC]

if knc sell jupiter is  break network protection

Sorry, but that's bullshit.
We just had 15 and  20% diff increases without KVC delivering a thing, which totally negates the statement.

Helmet is just confused. Also, confusing to read. Network protection is silly, we all want more miners, they should be selling them to us. They could have destroyed the competition if they saturated the market with the original orders, and shipped from immediate stock thereafter. It's a competitive game, let us be competitive.

Rick, you have a frightening "arms race" mentality there. 

What do you expect... He's Rick James.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuT7S-qpLfs

Cocaine is a hell of a drug.

[derekleong75]

Any news for new jupiter batch from knc ? Thanks.

Yes, it sold out today for under 10 minutes.

Were you just making this up? Or did it actually happen?

He's making it up.

It was under 8 minutes.

Btw the price KNC decided to sell them for today was very good. $2500 was a good call  

What the hell?  I was looking out for a newsletter for the next batch of Jups as I really wanted to buy another one.    Well done, KNC.

[merv77]

Any news for new jupiter batch from knc ? Thanks.

Yes, it sold out today for under 10 minutes.

Were you just making this up? Or did it actually happen?

He's making it up.

It was under 8 minutes.

Btw the price KNC decided to sell them for today was very good. $2500 was a good call  

What the hell?  I was looking out for a newsletter for the next batch of Jups as I really wanted to buy another one.    Well done, KNC.

don't beleive these dudes...  IT'S A JOKE... a bad joke really..    LOL
this is what you call pommy humor, not funny for everyone 

[de_ixie]

Any news for new jupiter batch from knc ? Thanks.

Yes, it sold out today for under 10 minutes.

Were you just making this up? Or did it actually happen?

He's making it up.

It was under 8 minutes.

Btw the price KNC decided to sell them for today was very good. $2500 was a good call  

What the hell?  I was looking out for a newsletter for the next batch of Jups as I really wanted to buy another one.    Well done, KNC.

don't beleive these dudes...  IT'S A JOKE... a bad joke really..    LOL
this is what you call pommy humor, not funny for everyone 

yeahh - exactly - a joke... *cough...*

[Searing]

Any news for new jupiter batch from knc ? Thanks.

Yes, it sold out today for under 10 minutes.

heh..you almost had me there..almost...(jeez I need to take a chill pill and just concentrate on the Neptunes this is just ridiculous ...watching this thread for "possible" Jupiter sightings...its like we are all the folks on the hillside from the movie "close encounters of a third kind" ....(ps to self I need a life ..then again it is like 30 below wind chill outside..maybe not having a life is better)

Searing