Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Torque]

These businesses exist on our backs like parasites. What can I tell you. Trading fees are trading fees.

So what happens when these businesses move to only support a single version of Bitcoin that you don't believe in/support? Because 'trading fees'.

And oh yeah btw, it's not because of 'trading fees'. Bitcoin is turning into a settlement layer, and these businesses have to eventually settle up on the main chain and pay transaction fees to the miners. They want to pay the least fees possible of course, hence the lobbying for 2x. That's their true motivation. They could give a shit about future 'decentralization' of mining.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

So what happens when these businesses move to only support a single version of Bitcoin that you don't believe in/support? Because 'trading fees'.

You avoid them. What other option is there?

[fragout]

Im starting to slowly convert to the conspiracy camp. To see people involved in bitcoin and the crypto scene do everything in their power to kill or dilute the very thing they have claimed to support dosnt make any sense to me. I cant justify it by egos or self interest alone. Usually the simplest answer is the correct one-Big money dont want you messing with their toys

[surix]

My prediction for segwit 2x:
- In coming days exchanges and miners will start to show their "final position"; for sure some of them will leave NYA, but majority will remain in NYA;
- Major exchange will support both coins, for the safety of their customer's fund;
- Hardfork will happen as there is major miner support;
- The duel will then start:
          - In the beginning, the original chain will keep the name BTC; the challenger (segwit 2x) will have another name;
          - exchange will halt transaction for a period of time, so the opening price can be a big surprise to everyone;
          - Segwit 2x side with large amount of hash rate and low fees, but not yet a lot of nodes nor infrastructure support; number of transaction is low; But miners are all well funded and determined, so they insist on mining even at loss;
          - Split will happen @block 494784, difficulty adjustment @493920, so 864 blocks to go, which is roughly 6 days. If core coin lose 90% of hash power, it will last 60 days;
          - Core chain is practically not usable, expect core team find a magical soft fork solution, otherwise it will take one and half hour for one confirmation;
          - Core coin's fee will skyrocket because everyone wants to get their transaction in next block;
          - All commerce will have to start to implement support for alt coins and/or segwit 2x coins, otherwise they will not receive payment in time;
          - Exchanges resume the transaction, core coin price goes down;

- Commerce will be forced to start to support segwit 2x coin;
- After some time, core coin will die and BTC name will be given to 2x coin;
- Developers will go either to alt coin or btc1;
- After 60 days, core chain will have the difficulty adjustment (to 10%), miner's profitability change (if the core coin price is not yet 10% of original price), they come back for some quick profit, dump core coins till price re-balance, leave and go back to segwit 2x.

Sad ending.

Strategy: HODL, as usual. I would not recommend to diversify the portfolio too much though...

[AlcoHoDL]

What worries me is that our wallets may need to be modified to safely claim the new forked coins, just like BCH... New private keys, transfers from old to new keys, etc. We must be extra careful we don't send our BTC to outer space in the process...

[STT]

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence.   I dont have to believe in any conspiracy to derail bitcoin when the natural course is a great many upset and troubles along the way, doesnt mean it fails in some ways its better to be tested and to find the most capable path.   If a challenge doesnt come from within crypto I think we'll see great competition from ordinary FIAT but digital methods anyway.  I do wonder if a phone app will just take over or has already taken business Bitcoin should have captured.

[Gab0]

This is all corporate greed. Nothing more elegant than that.

So in your mind then, which 'corporation' is being greedy here and stands to gain from all of these forks? And how do they stand to gain?

I do know those who do not benefit. The boys of AXA Grup. they should not be very happy with this to increase the size of block and not be able to realize their plans of asphyxia and coercion to the blockchain of bitcoin (You did not know?, AXA with blockstream is part of all this great conspiracy to undermine bitcoin).

They want to pay the least fees possible of course, hence the lobbying for 2x.

You have no logic. The more space on the block, the more fees for the miners.
On the contrary,  in the second layer solutions transactions occur outside the chain.(Where?, in the hands of AXA Group? This is a conspiracy?)

Selling more forks of Bitcoin doesn't sound seem like a sound business model for future gains to me. Does it to you? Is their future goal to have like 5-10 forks of bitcoin available for buy/sell? Does that sound like a good strategy?

If bitcoin is not able to survive a hardfork, it simply is not strong enough to be a decentralized, incensurable, global economic system.

but, take it easy. Bitcoin is strong enough, do not underestimate it. Core has its days counted.

[Torque]

They want to pay the least fees possible of course, hence the lobbying for 2x.

You have no logic. The more space on the block, the more fees for the miners.
On the contrary,  in the second layer solutions transactions occur outside the chain.(Where?, in the hands of AXA Group? This is a conspiracy?)

Sure logically it may not make sense. But then riddle me this: Why are corporate suits working as heads of Bitcoin brokers (Coinbase, BitPay, Shapeshift, etc.) LOBBYING for a block size increase, which presumably only benefits the miners, a portion of the industry that these brokers supposedly have no direct involvement with? Why would they gather and collude in a hotel room to hash out the NYA, when they have no direct involvement in the Bitcoin development roadmap?

Why would they push this agenda? Why would they care so much?

For altruistic reasons? For the good of the network? Pffft. I highly doubt it.

And if second layer solutions like LN are outside the chain, then why are these brokers not announcing their firm support for LN? Their entire businesses (broker, trading, etc.) lie outside the chain.

[jojo69]

completely unaware of Bitcoin's sorted history and bad actors.

Sorry to be that guy Torque, but you mean "sordid" in this context, just trying to help.

[Gab0]

They want to pay the least fees possible of course, hence the lobbying for 2x.

You have no logic. The more space on the block, the more fees for the miners.
On the contrary,  in the second layer solutions transactions occur outside the chain.(Where?, in the hands of AXA Group? This is a conspiracy?)

Sure logically it may not make sense. But then riddle me this: Why are corporate suits working as heads of Bitcoin brokers (Coinbase, BitPay, Shapeshift, etc.) LOBBYING for a block size increase, which presumably only benefits the miners, a portion industry that these brokers supposedly have no direct involvement with? Why would they gather and collude in a hotel room to hash out the NYA, when they have no direct involvement in the Bitcoin development roadmap?

Why would they push this agenda? Why would they care so much?

For altruistic reasons? For the good of the network? Pffft. I highly doubt it.

And if second layer solutions like LN are outside the chain, then why are these brokers not announcing their firm support? Their entire businesses (broker, trading, etc.) lie outside the chain.

Maybe for the same reasons that I support a block size increase? because they understand the incentives and economic principles of bitcoin?

Obviously for you it is easier to understand what happens by arguing that everything is part of a conspiracy.


PD:Sometimes I do not know if you're serious or extremely ironic ....
    (insert fry futurama meme)

[Torque]

Maybe for the same reasons that I support a block size increase? because they understand the incentives and economic principles of bitcoin?

You couldn't have nailed the logical fallacy in a better way.

[fluidjax]

Another one left 2x

https://twitter.com/nvk/status/915229987401273349

[Karartma1]

one can't be unaware of bitcoin prices for too much. It looks like ages that I don't see the charts and actually is 1 day only. Jeez...
Our Choo Choo friend needs more coal. It looks like we are running out of steam.
Hopefully $4000 is there to stay but we can't never be sure here. I noticed a bottom at 4212 on Stamp, let's see if it confirms.

[Torque]

Obviously for you it is easier to understand what happens by arguing that everything is part of a conspiracy.

For one, I don't believe everything in life is a conspiracy.
But hey, maybe you're right that conspiracies don't exist at all and it's all in people's minds.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/10/03/irs-involved-in-5-million-push-to-press-americans-to-buy-obamacare.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/taibbi-is-libor-crucial-financial-benchmark-a-lie-w497305

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio

[JimboToronto]

Good morning Bitcoinland.

Down a couple of benjamins I see, but over a third of the way back... currently $4300USD/$5378CAD (Bitcoinaverage).

Most alts also down... AltCash currently at $399USD/$499CAD (Coinmarketcap).

I don't see any immediate reason for this strange dip but it's not that deep, certainly not worth buying. We're basically back to where we were the day before yesterday. Strange stuff.

[jojo69]

Something I find most amusing is the process whereby a given hypothesis goes from being patently absurd to irrelevant truth overnight.

One day the theory is so ludicrous that anyone espousing it is clearly insane, then the revelation comes out and suddenly the truth of what yesterday was proof of lunacy is suddenly old news, or just no big deal.

I have had many opportunities to be amused by this.

[Torque]

Something I find most amusing is the process whereby a given hypothesis goes from being patently absurd to irrelevant truth overnight.

One day the theory is so ludicrous that anyone espousing it is clearly insane, then the revelation comes out and suddenly the truth of what yesterday was proof of lunacy is suddenly old news, or just no big deal.

I have had many opportunities to be amused by this.

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.”

― Ron Paul, The Revolution: A Manifesto

[free-bit.co.in]

Good morning Bitcoinland.

Down a couple of benjamins I see, but over a third of the way back... currently $4300USD/$5378CAD (Bitcoinaverage).

Most alts also down... AltCash currently at $399USD/$499CAD (Coinmarketcap).

I don't see any immediate reason for this strange dip but it's not that deep, certainly not worth buying. We're basically back to where we were the day before yesterday. Strange stuff.

Yup, really strange stuff happening with Ethereum, Monero, ETC too. Constantly going down but bitcoin is sustaining pretty good.

But hey, its time to buy some ETC/ETH/XMR, they can't go more down!

Altcoins are going down because of the sell pressure of the big investors, they want to accumulate BTC, so they can get a free airdrop from BTCgold....  

[Gab0]

Obviously for you it is easier to understand what happens by arguing that everything is part of a conspiracy.

For one, I don't believe everything in life is a conspiracy.
But hey, maybe you're right that conspiracies don't exist at all and it's all in people's minds.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/10/03/irs-involved-in-5-million-push-to-press-americans-to-buy-obamacare.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/taibbi-is-libor-crucial-financial-benchmark-a-lie-w497305

I have not said that conspiracies do not exist. You get lost.

Rather, I am pointing out how simplistic your understanding of different femonemos is.
It is like trying to explain the earthquake happened in Mexico as a work of the wrath of the gods. It seems to me that problem and the discussion is much, much more complex of the caricature that you try to argue.

On the other hand, and following your logic, it is perfectly possible that AXA Group. be part of a perverse plan to take control of Bitcoin through Blockstream. Can you deny speculation like that? Of course not.

[megashira1]

Bitcoin Gold is the equivalent of BCH but for small blockers. When the core chain dies out as a result of 2x this is where the majority of core developers will defect too.