Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Lauda]

What i am saying is that this coin is totally different from BTC, but there are some markets that aren't covered by BTC (yet).

This is incorrect. BTC covers every part of the world, legal or not. For those where it is illegal, it is unlikely that this thing would be legal. Even if it becomes legal, those people will get conned by associating Libra with something that it isn't AND will get harmed once they find this our:
* Sent money with dangerous description? Flagged.
* Sent money to dangerous address? Flagged.
* Sent money to someone we don't like? Flagged.

Until then I am afraid we should rely on those subpar Libra- style solutions.

No, don't spread that or you will harm a lot of people.

I agree with you, obviously it is shit, I said it in a previous post, but there are many people who read us and we must give arguments so that they understand.

I needed to read one sentence to understand all the arguments against it. Heck, you need only to read 2 words to be against it: Facebook, Mastercard/Visa.  

[fillippone]

According to the technical White Paper there should be ways to remain pseudonymous

Account addresses.
An account address is a 256-bit value. To create a new account, a user
first generates a fresh verification/signature key-pair (vk, sk) for a signature scheme and uses the
cryptographic hash of the public verification key vk as an account address a = H(vk).¹
The new account is created in the ledger state when a transaction sent from an existing account invokes the
create_account(a) Move instruction. This typically happens when a transaction attempts to send
Libra to an account at address a that has not yet been created.
Once the new account is created at a, the user can sign transactions to be sent from that account
using the private signing key sk. The user can also rotate the key used to sign transactions from the
account without changing its address, e.g., to proactively change the key or to respond to a possible
compromise of the key.

The Libra protocol does not link accounts to a real-world identity. A user is free to create multiple
accounts by generating multiple key-pairs. Accounts controlled by the same user have no inherent
link to each other. This scheme follows the example of Bitcoin and Ethereum in that it provides
pseudonymity [19] for users.
¹ Concretely we instantiate hash functions with SHA3-256 [17] and digital signatures with EdDSA using the ed-
wards25519 curve [18].

https://developers.libra.org/docs/assets/papers/the-libra-blockchain.pdf

KYC is not at protocol leve, but at Wallet Level:

Is AML/KYC required?

Apparently not at the protocol level, but the Calibra wallet states that all users will be verified via government issued ID. It also sounds like the Calibra wallet will be the only available wallet at least for a while, so it’s unclear if developers and users can run apps on the Libra network that don’t abide by the same standards as Calibra.

https://medium.com/@lopp/thoughts-on-libra-blockchain-49b8f6c26372

Right and what if all the permissioned wallets i.e. wallets that are allowed to operate have KYC? What exactly does no-KYC at protocol level bring you? Don't get conned by the whitepaper. Most average Joes will be conned into the KYC wallet by FB anyways.

Maybe my broken English made me not clear: Libra is a KYC'd solution.
The KYC doesn't come from the protocol itself, but from the gateways used to access this protocol (wallets).

[fillippone]

What i am saying is that this coin is totally different from BTC, but there are some markets that aren't covered by BTC (yet).

This is incorrect. BTC covers every part of the world, legal or not. For those where it is illegal, it is unlikely that this thing would be legal. Even if it becomes legal, those people will get conned by associating Libra with something that it isn't AND will get harmed once they find this our:
* Sent money with dangerous description? Flagged.
* Sent money to dangerous address? Flagged.
* Sent money to someone we don't like? Flagged.

When I said market I didn't mean geographical markets (they are all covered by bitcoin), but use-case.

[Lauda]

Maybe my broken English made me not clear: Libra is a KYC'd solution.
The KYC doesn't come from the protocol itself, but from the gateways used to access this protocol (wallets).

Well it comes off as: Not at protocol level and thus can be bypassed. This statement would be incorrect. It's good that you clarified though.

What i am saying is that this coin is totally different from BTC, but there are some markets that aren't covered by BTC (yet).

This is incorrect. BTC covers every part of the world, legal or not. For those where it is illegal, it is unlikely that this thing would be legal. Even if it becomes legal, those people will get conned by associating Libra with something that it isn't AND will get harmed once they find this our:
* Sent money with dangerous description? Flagged.
* Sent money to dangerous address? Flagged.
* Sent money to someone we don't like? Flagged.

When I said market I didn't mean geographical markets (they are all covered by bitcoin), but use-case.

Such as?

[NeuroticFish]

Sadly, not worth the time to read that. Terrible shitcoin.

Great summary!
And for the first time in history, (almost) everybody at bitcointalk will agree with Lauda  

[VB1001]

What i am saying is that this coin is totally different from BTC, but there are some markets that aren't covered by BTC (yet).

This is incorrect. BTC covers every part of the world, legal or not. For those where it is illegal, it is unlikely that this thing would be legal. Even if it becomes legal, those people will get conned by associating Libra with something that it isn't AND will get harmed once they find this our:
* Sent money with dangerous description? Flagged.
* Sent money to dangerous address? Flagged.
* Sent money to someone we don't like? Flagged.

When I said market I didn't mean geographical markets (they are all covered by bitcoin), but use-case.

Forget, nobody will pay for coffees with Bitcoin, BTC is an asset, LN is a platform that will use other currencies.

[fillippone]

Maybe my broken English made me not clear: Libra is a KYC'd solution.
The KYC doesn't come from the protocol itself, but from the gateways used to access this protocol (wallets).

Well it comes off as: Not at protocol level and thus can be bypassed. This statement would be incorrect. It's good that you clarified though.

What i am saying is that this coin is totally different from BTC, but there are some markets that aren't covered by BTC (yet).

This is incorrect. BTC covers every part of the world, legal or not. For those where it is illegal, it is unlikely that this thing would be legal. Even if it becomes legal, those people will get conned by associating Libra with something that it isn't AND will get harmed once they find this our:
* Sent money with dangerous description? Flagged.
* Sent money to dangerous address? Flagged.
* Sent money to someone we don't like? Flagged.

When I said market I didn't mean geographical markets (they are all covered by bitcoin), but use-case.

Such as?

As an italian, I love pizza: when I go out to eat a pizza happens I have to pay for such a pizza: I never was able to pay with Bitcoin. Or split the total bill of the pizza with my friends using Bitcoin. Only few of them owns bitcoins, but all of them own Whatsapp.

This is the only one example I am going to give you: I am sure you are smart enough to extrapolate.

[fillippone]

Sadly, not worth the time to read that. Terrible shitcoin.

Great summary!
And for the first time in history, (almost) everybody at bitcointalk will agree with Lauda  

Theymos included, apparently!

[Lauda]

As an italian, i love pizza: when I go out to eat a pizza happens I have to pay for such a pizza: I never was able to pay with bitcoin. Or split the total bill of such pizza with my friends in Bitcoin. Only few of them owns bitcoins, but all of them owns Whatsapp.

This is the only one example I am going to give you: I am sure you are smart enough to extrapolate.

If you are willing to sell your data/privacy in order to be able to pay for pizza with a permissioned shitcoin, excuse me but why are you here? This thing will onboard crypto-less users, who can already pay for whatever they need using traditional methods. I can't think of any mainstream use-cases where this would be the superior tool to what we have now; maybe some extreme edge-cases, but who cares about that?

Sadly, not worth the time to read that. Terrible shitcoin.

Great summary!
And for the first time in history, (almost) everybody at bitcointalk will agree with Lauda 

Theymos included, apparently!

It's a rare day when I am not controversial.

[bitcoinPsycho]

As an italian, i love pizza: when I go out to eat a pizza happens I have to pay for such a pizza: I never was able to pay with bitcoin. Or split the total bill of such pizza with my friends in Bitcoin. Only few of them owns bitcoins, but all of them owns Whatsapp.

This is the only one example I am going to give you: I am sure you are smart enough to extrapolate.

If you are willing to sell your data/privacy in order to be able to pay for pizza with a permissioned shitcoin, excuse me but why are you here? This thing will onboard crypto-less users, who can already pay for whatever they need using traditional methods.

I believe roach and gembitz are on board

[NeuroticFish]

As an italian, i love pizza: when I go out to eat a pizza happens I have to pay for such a pizza: I never was able to pay with bitcoin.

In Europe it's not as widely spread as in the States. Give it a little more time. LN could make the things easy and fast; if not other companies enter the BTC payment processing field too.

Or split the total bill of such pizza with my friends in Bitcoin. Only few of them owns bitcoins, but all of them owns Whatsapp.

Are you sure they'll keep money locked in the app? Are you sure that coin will pay for the pizza? Are you sure your expectations are not too big, too fast?

[Lauda]

I believe roach and gembitz are on board

Backed by garbage metals maybe?
To add fuel to this fire, even their Github description is dishonest:



https://github.com/libra/libra

[machasm]

I believe roach and gembitz are on board

Backed by garbage metals maybe?
To add fuel to this fire, even their Github description is dishonest:



https://github.com/libra/libra

I guess it depends on their description of decentralised. If they mean that the ledger is spread over two servers then I am sure it's not centralised /s

[HI-TEC99]

There are a lot of use case where I can give up a little of privacy for convenience

If you're OK with that, then you can use the credit card that you already have and:
 - Get x% back
 - Use your ordinary fiat currency instead of a weird amalgamation
 - Have your payment accepted at pretty much every retailer on earth

There's a huge market for KYC payments, but it's already filled by credit cards etc. I see zero market for Facebook's KYC cryptocurrency: it's the worst of all worlds.

I cannot send Money from my credit Card to my young son, or I cannot send to an unbanked person.

...

I don't understand how libra will help the unbanked if they have to go to a bank or money exchange to buy it with cash. Surely all banks and money exchanges will want to see ID like a passport. How can the unbanked get a passport with some earning less than $2 USD per day?

Even if money exchanges will do business without a passport facebook is demanding a passport scan for KYC.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/06/18/tech/facebook-libra-cryptocurrency/index.html

One of the aims of the project is to help the 1.7 billion people around the world who don't have bank accounts access a stable currency and financial services.

But Libra will still face a hurdle to get widely adopted.

To get Libra, users will need to go to their local bank or money exchange to trade local currency for it.

[VB1001]

https://twitter.com/aantonop/status/1140953685809348608

#LibreNotLibra

[LFC_Bitcoin]

If Libra is set to be a stable coin then why is it even a topic of conversation, why’s it being reported on so much?
Nobody is going to make any money from it apart from Zuckerberg, pointless waste of time.

[AlcoHoDL]

Best piece of advice you'll ever get.

[fillippone]

There are a lot of use case where I can give up a little of privacy for convenience

If you're OK with that, then you can use the credit card that you already have and:
 - Get x% back
 - Use your ordinary fiat currency instead of a weird amalgamation
 - Have your payment accepted at pretty much every retailer on earth

There's a huge market for KYC payments, but it's already filled by credit cards etc. I see zero market for Facebook's KYC cryptocurrency: it's the worst of all worlds.

I cannot send Money from my credit Card to my young son, or I cannot send to an unbanked person.

...

I don't understand how libra will help the unbanked if they have to go to a bank or money exchange to buy it with cash. Surely all banks and money exchanges will want to see ID like a passport. How can the unbanked get a passport with some earning less than $2USD per day?

Even if money exchanges will do business without a passport facebook is demanding a passport scan for KYC.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/06/18/tech/facebook-libra-cryptocurrency/index.html

One of the aims of the project is to help the 1.7 billion people around the world who don't have bank accounts access a stable currency and financial services.

But Libra will still face a hurdle to get widely adopted.

To get Libra, users will need to go to their local bank or money exchange to trade local currency for it.

I don't want to sound blasphemous, but: 1 Libra= 1 Libra

If I  am unbanked somewhere in the world, and I am able to receive and spend Libra without touching FIAT, because everyone can send and receive Libra, why should I convert it to my Local even shittier FIAT currency? I can stay inside libra forever.

Yes: this is premature, but this is the final outcome od 2.7 Billions users.

[JayJuanGee]

So back to the topic. Where to hold 1000k party and what fun things to do? ? ?

If you keep moving the goal posts - as to what price will be the "party", then NO party will be happen.   


 

[DeathAngel]

Best piece of advice you'll ever get.

I just stared at this for about 30 seconds before figuring out what it means

+ 1 WO Merit, sadly I’m out at the moment.