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Question: How far will this leg take us?
$110K - 9 (8.3%)
$120K - 19 (17.6%)
$130K - 17 (15.7%)
$140K - 9 (8.3%)
$150K - 19 (17.6%)
$160K - 2 (1.9%)
$170K+ - 33 (30.6%)
Total Voters: 108

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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 26919087 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (174 posts by 1 users with 9 merit deleted.)
bitserve
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December 17, 2020, 07:58:08 PM

25k is much too close for me to grab a LearJet and pop out right now....

Is it sad, or stupid, that I'm trying to rationalize buying a much larger strip of land for our ranch, and building a private runway, or helicopter landing pad, at the very least ?

..and a spaceport at $100K, right?

that said...if you work for a paycheck and your current work is not necessarily a dream job, when to retire?
options:
1. your btc is worth 10 year salary
2. your btc is worth 30 year salary
3. your btc is worth 100 year salary
4. (just for JJG) your btc is worth X year salary, but you consider btc price at a 200wk average, where X is 20-30 years.

3 at the very minimum to have some margin... other than that is pie in the sky.
HairyMaclairy
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December 17, 2020, 07:59:01 PM
Merited by Biodom (1)

that said...if you work for a paycheck and your current work is not necessarily a dream job, when to retire?
options:
1. your btc is worth 10 year salary
2. your btc is worth 30 year salary
3. your btc is worth 100 year salary
4. (just for JJG) your btc is worth X year salary, but you consider btc price at a 200wk average, where X is 20-30 years.

I think the often quoted number is close to or above 25. So your BTC is worth 25 years of your salary.

The more accurate number is actually 25 times your annual expenses. If you spend all of your salary, then it is your salary. If you spend less and save, this number can be lower. If you have debts, then you have to get rid of those first or include it in your calculations.

30 is a good fudge number to round up to. If you have that, you can retire.

Edit: This assumes your retirement money is invested in traditional markets and you are withdrawing a maximum of 4% annually.

For me, it is more money than my wife and I can earn in our remaining working lives.  In our relationship I couldn’t possibly retire without her retiring as well.  

And then I would want that fiat amount to be half or less of my current stack of Bitcoin.

So in all, this is quite a tall order.  
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December 17, 2020, 08:09:31 PM

I guess this feels similar to when we busted our 1k ATH...    Feels nothing like when we hit 20k last time.     I remember looking at 1k and thinking,  OK finally we can just put that behind us and really didn't think much about it again until we hit 3k and went through some serious 1k chops.      I think we will be feeling the pressure around 50k with 10k chops and it will be tough to not unload some.          At 100k,  I'll be in awe and feel like we did it..      Once we pass that,  I don't see why you would cash out at all,  BTC will be the store of value and you would then just borrow against it or loan and live off interest from it...    

#HODL' good times!

Surely, I would not consider cashing out small amounts of BTC (or maybe even large amounts -relatively speaking) along the way to be bad judgement, necessarily.  A lot of the considerations of whether a BTC HODLer is being prudent or practical will depend on a lot of individual factors including when s/he got into bitcoin and whether or not s/he feels that s/he is over-allocated in bitcoin. 

I find it a wee bit ironic that there are long term bitcoiners who are supposedly still stacking sats rather than either just waiting it out or cashing out small amounts on the way UPpity.. but hey, to each their own in terms of how to manage their monies.

Maybe an example might do, here?

Let's say for example someone got into bitcoin several years ago - like somewhere in the time-frame of 2013 to early 2017, so in essence his/her cost basis is in the three digit realm - and maybe even in the sub $500-ish realm for some HODLers of that era...

Anyhow such hypothetical person(s) accumulated BTC in the neighborhood of 10% of his/her total investment portfolio in BTC, and it was not as if the remaining 90% was any kind of small investment, it was a sufficiently large amount of an investment to sustain such person in the event that BTC were to go to zero... which surely has not happened, yet but seems to have been a BIGGER possible risk that should have been part of the considerations regarding allocations in that 2013 to early 2017 time-frame.

As we largely can appreciate is that what happened in late 2017 is that BTC prices appreciated more than 20x (considering a 3 digit cost basis for this hypothetical person(s)), so if such person had not cashed out very many of his/her coins during such 20x price increase, that 10%-ish allocation would have gone into the 90%-ish area of that persons allocation of total value in his/her investment portfolio....

So yeah, sure it corrected back down 85%-ish but still is largely 3x-4x up from the cost basis, so it ends up being perhaps less than 50% of the allocation in late 2018 and even may have sunk to such petri values (of less than 50%-ish) during the March 2020 crashening of BTC prices...

However, now after all of this UP and down and even the going through the 2018 to 2020 correction period, the BTC price is largely back to late 2017 levels (and beyond), so assuming that such hypothetical person did not sell any meaningful amounts of his/her BTC between late 2017 and now, then such BTC allocation has returned to supra 90% allocation levels in his/her total portfolio...

So in that regard, I don't really understand why it is not o.k. or prudent for such person to shave off some BTC at any point.. I mean what is the point of NOT having any value invested in anything else except BTC when the 90% that such person already has has made him/her richie as fuck (relatively speaking when looking at his/her prior allocations of wealth (investments) that continues to just stagnate in comparison to the BTC component of the investment portfolio)? 

In other words, I don't even see any kind of meaningful reason to keep buying BTC or completely HODLing onto every single BTC under such circumstances.. except maybe just symbolically wanting to support the cause or buying some BTC on dips..   but really, what's the point?  How many BTC is enough? 

The reality of the matter is that if the BTC price keeps going up to $50k, $100k and beyond $100k as you suggest WastedLTC.. then that BTC value has already become a great amount of value of such hypothetical person that just becomes more (and maybe even too much) of the portfolio value of the BTC HODLer.. so it seems to me that shaving off some lil corns along the way or just consuming goods and services here and there does not really seem like a bad thing.. including the considerations of consuming some other kinds of investments if anything strikes the fancy of the HODLER who happens to have way more than 90%+ in bitcoin, largely due to BTC price appreciation rather than being irresponsible in any kind of way related to how such BTC HODLer had acquired such BTC in the earlier years.   
OutOfMemory
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December 17, 2020, 08:19:11 PM

Coinbase filed S-1 for an IPO.
https://www.theblockcrypto.com/linked/88293/coinbase-s-1-potential-ipo-filing

after what what one dex did, it is entirely possible that they would allocate some at IPO prices to those currently on exchange, at least it would be a trick to cause/entice a massive move of btc back to their "hodl".

What's that, exactly?
Coinbase going to Wall Street?
Serious question.
BobLawblaw
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December 17, 2020, 08:20:37 PM

the "buy-the-dip" meme became a beast of its own. dips last only an hour or so.  Cheesy
Some expect there to be "corrections" and I think that's normal. But it's very hard to predict these. The best you can do is put some buy orders and just wait for it.

FWIW, assuming FIFO cashing out of Bitcoin, I'm not ever likely to cash out any of the dip I'm buying now.

It'll all go to the nieces and nephews upon Rick and I deciding we've had enough of this strange planet, and go back home.
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December 17, 2020, 08:28:20 PM

..... :-D weeeeeee

For some strange reason I always mistake your posts for some malfunctioning spam bot.
I cant imagine why...must be just me....
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December 17, 2020, 08:31:38 PM

I guess this feels similar to when we busted our 1k ATH...    Feels nothing like when we hit 20k last time.    ........
#HODL' good times!

....

I agree with you -- For the most part I was referring to the current sentiment.   I feel like this 20k is closer to when we broke 1k ATH and we have much more room to grow.   Let's say we remove the need to sell for living expenses and the original goal was to one day exchange corn to fiat.   I feel that as BTC continues to grow, people's urge to swap to fiat will drop.    

Years ago or just asking a nocoiner what they think they need to retire, the typical answer is in fiat terms.   I see this changing over time as BTC grows.   Still far from that at the moment but that is the direction I see things moving.   I assume it won't be in BTC terms either...   maybe a basket of digital assets that return a predictable rate.  

tdlr;   hodl.

Smiley




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December 17, 2020, 08:39:05 PM
Last edit: December 17, 2020, 09:12:16 PM by sirazimuth

.....
What's that, exactly?
Coinbase going to Wall Street?
Serious question.



Damn! I was gonna be a dick (as usual) and call you out on that heycooo.... Grin
Biodom
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December 17, 2020, 08:39:47 PM

Coinbase filed S-1 for an IPO.
https://www.theblockcrypto.com/linked/88293/coinbase-s-1-potential-ipo-filing

after what what one dex did, it is entirely possible that they would allocate some at IPO prices to those currently on exchange, at least it would be a trick to cause/entice a massive move of btc back to their "hodl".

What's that, exactly?
Coinbase going to Wall Street?
Serious question.

yea, once SEC deems S-1 effective, a company can sell shares in the IPO and began trading on Nasdaq or NYSE.
Probably going to be either COIN or BASE.
CBAS is too weird (almost sea bass, lol).
OutOfMemory
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December 17, 2020, 08:43:33 PM
Merited by sirazimuth (1)

.....
What's that, exactly?
Coinbase going to Wall Street?
Serious question.



Damn! I was gonna be a dick (as usual) and call you out on that heycooo.... Grin

LMFAO  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
This wasn't even supposed to be a haiku!  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
Seems to become a habit, though.

You want it, you get it:

What's that, exactly?
Coinbase going to Wall Street?
A serious question.

#haikuremix


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December 17, 2020, 08:49:54 PM

I guess this feels similar to when we busted our 1k ATH...    Feels nothing like when we hit 20k last time.     I remember looking at 1k and thinking,  OK finally we can just put that behind us and really didn't think much about it again until we hit 3k and went through some serious 1k chops.      I think we will be feeling the pressure around 50k with 10k chops and it will be tough to not unload some.          At 100k,  I'll be in awe and feel like we did it..      Once we pass that,  I don't see why you would cash out at all,  BTC will be the store of value and you would then just borrow against it or loan and live off interest from it...    

#HODL' good times!

Surely, I would not consider cashing out small amounts of BTC (or maybe even large amounts -relatively speaking) along the way to be bad judgement, necessarily.  A lot of the considerations of whether a BTC HODLer is being prudent or practical will depend on a lot of individual factors including when s/he got into bitcoin and whether or not s/he feels that s/he is over-allocated in bitcoin. 

I find it a wee bit ironic that there are long term bitcoiners who are supposedly still stacking sats rather than either just waiting it out or cashing out small amounts on the way UPpity.. but hey, to each their own in terms of how to manage their monies.

Maybe an example might do, here?

Let's say for example someone got into bitcoin several years ago - like somewhere in the time-frame of 2013 to early 2017, so in essence his/her cost basis is in the three digit realm - and maybe even in the sub $500-ish realm for some HODLers of that era...

Anyhow such hypothetical person(s) accumulated BTC in the neighborhood of 10% of his/her total investment portfolio in BTC, and it was not as if the remaining 90% was any kind of small investment, it was a sufficiently large amount of an investment to sustain such person in the event that BTC were to go to zero... which surely has not happened, yet but seems to have been a BIGGER possible risk that should have been part of the considerations regarding allocations in that 2013 to early 2017 time-frame.

As we largely can appreciate is that what happened in late 2017 is that BTC prices appreciated more than 20x (considering a 3 digit cost basis for this hypothetical person(s)), so if such person had not cashed out very many of his/her coins during such 20x price increase, that 10%-ish allocation would have gone into the 90%-ish area of that persons allocation of total value in his/her investment portfolio....

So yeah, sure it corrected back down 85%-ish but still is largely 3x-4x up from the cost basis, so it ends up being perhaps less than 50% of the allocation in late 2018 and even may have sunk to such petri values (of less than 50%-ish) during the March 2020 crashening of BTC prices...

However, now after all of this UP and down and even the going through the 2018 to 2020 correction period, the BTC price is largely back to late 2017 levels (and beyond), so assuming that such hypothetical person did not sell any meaningful amounts of his/her BTC between late 2017 and now, then such BTC allocation has returned to supra 90% allocation levels in his/her total portfolio...

So in that regard, I don't really understand why it is not o.k. or prudent for such person to shave off some BTC at any point.. I mean what is the point of NOT having any value invested in anything else except BTC when the 90% that such person already has has made him/her richie as fuck (relatively speaking when looking at his/her prior allocations of wealth (investments) that continues to just stagnate in comparison to the BTC component of the investment portfolio)? 

In other words, I don't even see any kind of meaningful reason to keep buying BTC or completely HODLing onto every single BTC under such circumstances.. except maybe just symbolically wanting to support the cause or buying some BTC on dips..   but really, what's the point?  How many BTC is enough? 

The reality of the matter is that if the BTC price keeps going up to $50k, $100k and beyond $100k as you suggest WastedLTC.. then that BTC value has already become a great amount of value of such hypothetical person that just becomes more (and maybe even too much) of the portfolio value of the BTC HODLer.. so it seems to me that shaving off some lil corns along the way or just consuming goods and services here and there does not really seem like a bad thing.. including the considerations of consuming some other kinds of investments if anything strikes the fancy of the HODLER who happens to have way more than 90%+ in bitcoin, largely due to BTC price appreciation rather than being irresponsible in any kind of way related to how such BTC HODLer had acquired such BTC in the earlier years.   

But what if a hodlr simply believes in BTC JJG?

What if.. I believe in the future of BTC, and it’s ability to withstand future events, more than any fiat currency of any country, any government, or any companies in anY of these countries?

And, on top of that, maybe I don’t trust any government not to steal any of my assets within the reach of their grubbby fingers?
What else can I invest in that a government can’t just snatch from me at any moment they desire? And would easily be able to skip town on any such oppressive country/government without leaving my assets behind?
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December 17, 2020, 08:51:37 PM

I guess we're going down now, after traditional AYH on Dec 17.
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December 17, 2020, 08:52:48 PM

....
This wasn't even supposed to be a haiku!  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
....



LOL, For whatever reason, I actually suspected that, which is why I checked.
Yup, haiku indeed, no need to edit it my friend!  Cheesy
LFC_Bitcoin
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December 17, 2020, 08:58:43 PM

I guess we're going down now, after traditional AYH on Dec 17.

Bitcorn iz ded, sel everyfink!

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December 17, 2020, 09:05:58 PM
Merited by LFC_Bitcoin (1)

Omg mug corns r only worth 22713 Sad
LFC_Bitcoin
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December 17, 2020, 09:14:12 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)

Omg mug corns r only worth 22713 Sad

Muh corns r onli worth over 5 x what they wer during the covid dump in March

#mindrust2020
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December 17, 2020, 09:16:35 PM

...
What else can I invest in that a government can’t just snatch from me at any moment they desire? .....

The power to think rationally.
Trust in real science...etc.
I know that's intangible and not monetary, but the government cannot steal it anyway.
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December 17, 2020, 09:17:45 PM




Toxic2040
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December 17, 2020, 09:25:04 PM

noon charts at 1:24pm



#dyor

4h



D

#stronghands
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BTC or BUST


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December 17, 2020, 09:30:29 PM

Omg mug corns r only worth 22713 Sad

Muh corns r onli worth over 5 x what they wer during the covid dump in March

#mindrust2020

MuH corns ore only still worth a little over 100x what dei wuz..
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