Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[threecats]

So much bullshit in this thread... $104   I wish some people would have moral and conscience...

what is immoral about placing a low bid?

You are spreading panic and suggesting people they should sell. I often lost money because I listened to some "guru´s" here.

1) Don't blame people on this forum for your mistakes.

2) Lighten up.

[billyjoeallen]

to which I say: WHERE THE HELL IS MY CHOICE TO LIVE WITHOUT A GOVERNMENT?

I am very curious what no government means to you, and why you'd want to live in a place without one. I mean, it's one thing to want less government intrusion, but are we talking less/no taxes, or are we talking no police department, no public schooling, no fire department. Where do you draw the line?

What is so difficult to imagine? People would shop for security, fire protection services and schools the same way they shop for anything else. The needy would be provided for by voluntary charity. We draw the line at the the initiation of force. Initiating or threatening violence is not what holds communities and society together.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[octaft]

to which I say: WHERE THE HELL IS MY CHOICE TO LIVE WITHOUT A GOVERNMENT?

I am very curious what no government means to you, and why you'd want to live in a place without one. I mean, it's one thing to want less government intrusion, but are we talking less/no taxes, or are we talking no police department, no public schooling, no fire department. Where do you draw the line?

What is so difficult to imagine? People would shop for security, fire protection services and schools the same way they shop for anything else. The needy would be provided for by voluntary charity. We draw the line at the the initiation of force. Initiating or threatening violence is not what holds communities and society together.

What is difficult for me to imagine is why anyone not wealthy would want to live in that sort of environment.

[oda.krell]

Is this normal to not show any lower bids?

Bitcoin Wisdom is just generally fucked and never reports the right volumes.

a) btcwisdom truncates the order book, for speed reasons as the owner says. seeing that his site is usually up during heavy trading days when the others go down, i'm inclined to follow his logic.

b) the way the order book information is displayed is unintuitive at first maybe, but before claiming it's all wrong, first understand how prices are grouped. explanation is in the btcwisdom thread in the service subforum.

c) never heard of volume being wrong. quick check matches volume shown on tradingview. care to find some evidence for your claim?

[TakeTheSkyRoad]

to which I say: WHERE THE HELL IS MY CHOICE TO LIVE WITHOUT A GOVERNMENT?

I am very curious what no government means to you, and why you'd want to live in a place without one. I mean, it's one thing to want less government intrusion, but are we talking less/no taxes, or are we talking no police department, no public schooling, no fire department. Where do you draw the line?

What is so difficult to imagine? People would shop for security, fire protection services and schools the same way they shop for anything else. The needy would be provided for by voluntary charity. We draw the line at the the initiation of force. Initiating or threatening violence is not what holds communities and society together.

If you haven't already I highly recommend reading the books by Ken MacLeod.

However the idealistic the dream the reality would probably put us back to the victorian age where the needy ended up in work houses and had to work for food but they didn't get anything else.  Just somewhere to sleep and food with no chance to improve their lot.

[billyjoeallen]

to which I say: WHERE THE HELL IS MY CHOICE TO LIVE WITHOUT A GOVERNMENT?

I am very curious what no government means to you, and why you'd want to live in a place without one. I mean, it's one thing to want less government intrusion, but are we talking less/no taxes, or are we talking no police department, no public schooling, no fire department. Where do you draw the line?

What is so difficult to imagine? People would shop for security, fire protection services and schools the same way they shop for anything else. The needy would be provided for by voluntary charity. We draw the line at the the initiation of force. Initiating or threatening violence is not what holds communities and society together.

What is difficult for me to imagine is why anyone not wealthy would want to live in that sort of environment.

Because they'd get to live around wealthy people.

[octaft]

to which I say: WHERE THE HELL IS MY CHOICE TO LIVE WITHOUT A GOVERNMENT?

I am very curious what no government means to you, and why you'd want to live in a place without one. I mean, it's one thing to want less government intrusion, but are we talking less/no taxes, or are we talking no police department, no public schooling, no fire department. Where do you draw the line?

What is so difficult to imagine? People would shop for security, fire protection services and schools the same way they shop for anything else. The needy would be provided for by voluntary charity. We draw the line at the the initiation of force. Initiating or threatening violence is not what holds communities and society together.

What is difficult for me to imagine is why anyone not wealthy would want to live in that sort of environment.

Because they'd get to live around wealthy people.

 

[TakeTheSkyRoad]

to which I say: WHERE THE HELL IS MY CHOICE TO LIVE WITHOUT A GOVERNMENT?

I am very curious what no government means to you, and why you'd want to live in a place without one. I mean, it's one thing to want less government intrusion, but are we talking less/no taxes, or are we talking no police department, no public schooling, no fire department. Where do you draw the line?

What is so difficult to imagine? People would shop for security, fire protection services and schools the same way they shop for anything else. The needy would be provided for by voluntary charity. We draw the line at the the initiation of force. Initiating or threatening violence is not what holds communities and society together.

What is difficult for me to imagine is why anyone not wealthy would want to live in that sort of environment.

Because they'd get to live around wealthy people.

Sounds like they'd love that.... you could ask the poor people that do that now.



Edit : I appreciate you might not have been 100% serious.... well, I hope

[niothor]

to which I say: WHERE THE HELL IS MY CHOICE TO LIVE WITHOUT A GOVERNMENT?

I am very curious what no government means to you, and why you'd want to live in a place without one. I mean, it's one thing to want less government intrusion, but are we talking less/no taxes, or are we talking no police department, no public schooling, no fire department. Where do you draw the line?

What is so difficult to imagine? People would shop for security, fire protection services and schools the same way they shop for anything else. The needy would be provided for by voluntary charity. We draw the line at the the initiation of force. Initiating or threatening violence is not what holds communities and society together.

What is difficult for me to imagine is why anyone not wealthy would want to live in that sort of environment.

Because they'd get to live around wealthy people.

and so poor people became wealthy people best companions finally replacing dogs    and cats

[hlynur]

to which I say: WHERE THE HELL IS MY CHOICE TO LIVE WITHOUT A GOVERNMENT?

I am very curious what no government means to you, and why you'd want to live in a place without one. I mean, it's one thing to want less government intrusion, but are we talking less/no taxes, or are we talking no police department, no public schooling, no fire department. Where do you draw the line?

What is so difficult to imagine? People would shop for security, fire protection services and schools the same way they shop for anything else. The needy would be provided for by voluntary charity. We draw the line at the the initiation of force. Initiating or threatening violence is not what holds communities and society together.

i highly doubt that during the process of transformation towards such a system the whole problem with gobal monopolistic companies backing up their status by influencing politics would simply disappear. Privatization in certain economical sectors like water or electrical power supply has led to very ugly developments at the expense of citizens in a lot of countries around the world.

I recommend the book "postdemocracy" by colin crouch at this point.

[San1ty]

Is this normal to not show any lower bids?

Bitcoin Wisdom is just generally fucked and never reports the right volumes.

a) btcwisdom truncates the order book, for speed reasons as the owner says. seeing that his site is usually up during heavy trading days when the others go down, i'm inclined to follow his logic.

b) the way the order book information is displayed is unintuitive at first maybe, but before claiming it's all wrong, first understand how prices are grouped. explanation is in the btcwisdom thread in the service subforum.

c) never heard of volume being wrong. quick check matches volume shown on tradingview. care to find some evidence for your claim?

I'm the one claiming lot's of data that bitcoinwisdom is showing is fucked up:

MACD numbers are wrong, they do not match tradingview (and my own calculations at all).

Volumes are correct if you refresh the page, but if you keep it open for a couple of hours (without internet connection loss obv). It'll start showing some real messed up volumes for the past couple of candles. If you refresh the page after that the volumes will be correct again.

What seems to be correct however is:
Price, Orderbook

In the end I got tired of websites showing me wrong data, I wrote my own (private).

If you are looking for a better site tho, I can suggest tradingview (as far as I checked their numbers are correct).

[billyjoeallen]

to which I say: WHERE THE HELL IS MY CHOICE TO LIVE WITHOUT A GOVERNMENT?

I am very curious what no government means to you, and why you'd want to live in a place without one. I mean, it's one thing to want less government intrusion, but are we talking less/no taxes, or are we talking no police department, no public schooling, no fire department. Where do you draw the line?

What is so difficult to imagine? People would shop for security, fire protection services and schools the same way they shop for anything else. The needy would be provided for by voluntary charity. We draw the line at the the initiation of force. Initiating or threatening violence is not what holds communities and society together.

If you haven't already I highly recommend reading the books by Ken MacLeod.

However the idealistic the dream the reality would probably put us back to the victorian age where the needy ended up in work houses and had to work for food but they didn't get anything else.  Just somewhere to sleep and food with no chance to improve their lot.

I've read Dickens, thank you. Victorian work houses were Victorian, as in under the monarch Queen Victoria. Adjusting for changes in technology, I hardly see modern public housing as an improvement. When people have to get their limbs sawed off one by one because they can't get off their fat asses long enough to prevent diabetes, those limbs are just as gone as they would be if they were caught in the machinery.

[freebit13]

Not really. It can have two winners. I bought at 300$ and sell for 600$, because I want to buy a camera. Then the prices rises to 900$, like you predicted. So buyer and seller win.

Rather: the guy you bought from (if he got for free) won 300$, you won 300$, the chap you sold to won 300$, ahd the chap he sold to lost 900$.

No, the last guy didn't lose $900, he got bitcoin...

[oda.krell]

Is this normal to not show any lower bids?

Bitcoin Wisdom is just generally fucked and never reports the right volumes.

a) btcwisdom truncates the order book, for speed reasons as the owner says. seeing that his site is usually up during heavy trading days when the others go down, i'm inclined to follow his logic.

b) the way the order book information is displayed is unintuitive at first maybe, but before claiming it's all wrong, first understand how prices are grouped. explanation is in the btcwisdom thread in the service subforum.

c) never heard of volume being wrong. quick check matches volume shown on tradingview. care to find some evidence for your claim?

I'm the one claiming lot's of data that bitcoinwisdom is showing is fucked up:

MACD numbers are wrong, they do not match tradingview (and my own calculations at all).

Volumes are correct if you refresh the page, but if you keep it open for a couple of hours (without internet connection loss obv). It'll start showing some real messed up volumes for the past couple of candles. If you refresh the page after that the volumes will be correct again.

What seems to be correct however is:
Price, Orderbook

In the end I got tired of websites showing me wrong data, I wrote my own (private).

If you are looking for a better site tho, I can suggest tradingview (as far as I checked their numbers are correct).

Didn't know about the volume error when not refreshing page. Sounds plausible, but seems benign to me if it's solved with a reload.

Re: MACD. Did you account for different MACD parameters? Both tradingview and btcwisdom allow you to set your own parameters, which in case of tradingview includes price source itself.

[hdbuck]

Not really. It can have two winners. I bought at 300$ and sell for 600$, because I want to buy a camera. Then the prices rises to 900$, like you predicted. So buyer and seller win.

Rather: the guy you bought from (if he got for free) won 300$, you won 300$, the chap you sold to won 300$, ahd the chap he sold to lost 900$.

No, the last guy didn't lose $900, he got bitcoin...

yea but then the price collapses back to $300.. 

[San1ty]

*SNIP TO AVOID SPAM*

Didn't know about the volume error when not refreshing page. Sounds plausible, but seems benign to me if it's solved with a reload.

Re: MACD. Did you account for different MACD parameters? Both tradingview and btcwisdom allow you to set your own parameters, which in case of tradingview includes price source itself.

Yes I did :-). I'm pretty sure it's a real issue.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[ErisDiscordia]

to which I say: WHERE THE HELL IS MY CHOICE TO LIVE WITHOUT A GOVERNMENT?

I am very curious what no government means to you, and why you'd want to live in a place without one. I mean, it's one thing to want less government intrusion, but are we talking less/no taxes, or are we talking no police department, no public schooling, no fire department. Where do you draw the line?

I draw no lines, I see a spectrum.

Let's forget the left-wing/right-wing spectrum - the important spectrum in my opinion stretches between authoritarianism/totalitarianism and anarchy.

I advocate the movement towards the anarchy part of the spectrum. Not in any violent, preferably not even sudden manner, because I think that would cause confusion and suffering. I do this because I am convinced that decentralized/voluntary/anarchistic forms of societal organization are far superior to centralized forms in terms of their efficiency. We can observe the same with technological solutions such as Bitcoin or P2P filesharing. They eliminate central points of failure (which in the case of societal institutions serve as corrupting power centers on people in their proximity), improve feedback and information accuracy (communication is only possible between equals aka. a man holding a gun to your head will only be told what his victim thinks won't make him pull the trigger) and boost resource usage efficiency (compare the cost of running even theoretically 1000x upscaled Bitcoin network to the cost of the current financial industry). I could go on about the practical reasons of why I advocate decentralization and anarchy. I leave the moral reasons to the moralists. I'd rather discuss my favorite band or writer, not my favorite set of morals

Besides all that, I simply think that "No thanks, I don't want to be governed by ANY of these choices present" is a legitimate position which should be honored just as much as the picking of a certain candidate. That this opinion is basically considered invalid by the current system makes me uneasy.

Oh yeah and about the eternal "what about the roads/fire department/schools/etc." - let's build them. Now that we have Blockchain technology and an increasingly stable currency on top of it we can build all sorts of things on a voluntary and decentralized basis at least for the reason that we don't want to be dependent on the government providing these services. Wouldn't that be a neat thing? Grow the institutions to replace the current system from the ground up. Let's plant some seeds.

[JorgeStolfi]

I'm the one claiming lot's of data that bitcoinwisdom is showing is fucked up:

[ ... ]

Volumes are correct if you refresh the page, but if you keep it open for a couple of hours (without internet connection loss obv). It'll start showing some real messed up volumes for the past couple of candles. If you refresh the page after that the volumes will be correct again.
[ ... ]

Ah!  Thanks...