Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[fonzie]

[dreamspark]

Not sure if this has been posted yet but it is a friend of a friend who owns this.

http://www.hackneygazette.co.uk/news/if_you_put_20_in_the_new_shoreditch_bitcoin_atm_three_years_ago_you_would_have_8_000_today_1_3429947

[Erdogan]

I exclude trust in the system here,

This is where you slip up. It is an IOU from the state which people trust enough to trade between themselves as if it had value.

No, if you trade one work hour for a dinner, indirectly using money, at the money stage the state does not owe you neither the work hour nor the dinner. The system trust I talk about, falls on the state, in case of fiat money, only because they produce the money and manage the supply. In other kinds of money, like gold or bitcoin, the state is not involved in the production or the management, therefore it is easier to see the difference between trust between traders, and trust to the system.

[dreamspark]

I exclude trust in the system here,

This is where you slip up. It is an IOU from the state which people trust enough to trade between themselves as if it had value.

No, if you trade one work hour for a dinner, indirectly using money, at the money stage the state does not owe you neither the work hour nor the dinner. The system trust I talk about, falls on the state, in case of fiat money, only because they produce the money and manage the supply. In other kinds of money, like gold or bitcoin, the state is not involved in the production or the management, therefore it is easier to see the difference between trust between traders, and trust to the system.

Could you clarify what you mean by indirectly using money? In the case of doing an hour work for dinner then there is no money involved and there is trust between both parties that the work will be completed and the dinner promise will be fulfilled.

[MoreFun]

Someone is regularly dumping in $640.

[Richy_T]

No, if you trade one work hour for a dinner, indirectly using money, at the money stage the state does not owe you neither the work hour nor the dinner. The system trust I talk about, falls on the state, in case of fiat money, only because they produce the money and manage the supply. In other kinds of money, like gold or bitcoin, the state is not involved in the production or the management, therefore it is easier to see the difference between trust between traders, and trust to the system.

But if I give it back to them when they come calling, I get to stay out of jail.

It's not unusual for debts to change form and ownership. I could buy somebody's poker markers and they might negotiate to pay me back by mowing my lawn. Of course, there's not much negotiating with the government.

[KeyserSoze]

Stolfi trying to argue the internet has less impact than French Revolution, World War II, or the end of Apartheid... almost as bad as Richy trying to persuade us the world doesn't need roads.

[MoreFun]

https://xapo.com
A new wallet service which offers an insurance for a 0.12% annual fee. Sounds interesting...

If they lose your coins and go backrupt your coins are still insured. Yea right...

[derpinheimer]

Despite the [small] dumps in the last hour, bid depth still getting better.

Before, ask was 7.6k to 700 and bid 8k to 600
now, ask is 7.7k to 700 and bid 9.2k to 600

[Serge]

Atlas Ceo on fox business
he said 1000s of signups yesterday

this new exchange coming up is a mega bullish news, hopefully few more spring up here in the states

[macsga]

[Erdogan]

Damn, all this philosophy in last 10-15 pages makes this thread boring  

I could make ChartBuddy repost "Favourite charts from the booms and busts of 2013" if you'd like

Chartbuddy's Greatest Hits. I like it.

Beats recent discussion on issue number one that never goes anywhere on public forums: political philosophy. Number two is religion.

gotta say i am impressed with our forum though, it has been about ten pages of this argument and Hitler has not been mention yet, correct? what's that fundemental rule of internet forums, all arguments eventually devolve into invoking of hitler?  but not here. : -)

Since the question of dictatorship is now drawn in, I would like to rant:

In computer models, it has been shown that in a population of beings, it is possible to have a balance between the "always attack" personality and a "try cooperation first, then fight if necessary". In the stable configuration, the "attack first" personality is in minority. A sociopath will attack always, but being smart about it and hide it to avoid retaliation from the others. We could live in such a society of a balance between nonviolent, self defending people and dominators. If we have a sociobiologist here, I would like her to comment.

Now, sosiopaths exist plenty, but they are really not a problem as long as you can see it and therefore not give them power over yourself or give them your resources (and make sure you tell others and protect his victims). So if freedom, that is sovereignty over yourself, knowledge and saying no! is prevalent in a society, a sociopath can not rise to be a tyrant. If people generally are willing to give away freedoms and money, someone is sure to rise to be a dictator.

This is why vigilance about freedom and the principle of self defense is so important to keep a free society. This goes both for a society with no rulers, and a society which is relatively free.

[cbutters]

Atlas Ceo on fox business
he said 1000s of signups yesterday

this new exchange coming up is a mega bullish news, hopefully few more spring up here in the states

Anyone here sign up on this exchange? I did just to check things out and see how it looks. Looks promising, not much volume yet, I'm not verified or anything yet so I couldn't tell you how it is to trade on. Everything looks TOO simple on the site though. I can state that 2 factor authentication and api enable disable controls are there and easy to use with little confusion.

However, It is nice to see a list of about 15 people with their profiles, actual names and credentials on an exchange.
Doesn't really feel like bitcoin if I'm not sending my coins to an invisible mysterious entity.....

[hdbuck]

since its quite boring in here go have a look at this thread..

-> https://asktom.cf/index.php?topic=20336.0

EPIC BUMP

[smiley123]

Someone is regularly dumping in $640.

It's Bill Gates.  He said 640 is enough for everyone.

[PoolMinor]

Welcome to Bitcoinia!

[Spaceman_Spiff]

In particular, I cannot understand why some bitcoiners still believe that crypto-currency in general, and bitcoin in particular, will free them from governments or banks.  If that is what you expect from bitcoin, prepare to be severely disappointed.  Governments can render cyptocurrencies useless with a single stroke of the pen; we saw that happen in China and other countries.

More generally, one cannot expect that a technological invention, by itself, will bring fundamental social, political or economic change.  The people whose wealth and power could be threatened by such change will fight it, with all the resources that their wealth and power gives them.  In particular, technology cannot give to the people of a country any freedoms that their government is denying them.

Are you honestly suggesting that black markets don't exist?

Are you really ignoring that the internet fundamentally changed society and is the reason the protests and revolutions from 2011 on are even possible despite the wishes of local dictators?

Posting about government in a way that reads "government is omnipotent" between the lines, and mentioning the French Revolution in the same post seems quite ironic indeed.

[David M]

Steady bitcoin, steady.   Have patience...

[adamstgBit]

Atlas Ceo on fox business
he said 1000s of signups yesterday

poeple need to be prepared to answer why its better then fiat.

the naysayers say things like "a currency has to be back by the full faith and credit of a government"

the appropriate response to that is

" bitcoin is backed by all the poeple who chose to use it...
it has value because it has specific properties that make it desirable

bitcoin is:
1. Scarce
2. Durable
3. Portable
4. Divisible
5. Impossible to counterfeit
6. Fungible ( any 1 BTC has the same value as any other )
7. Easy to keep safe ( contrary to popular belief, it easy to print out a paper wallet...)
8. Shiny ( yes the digital bits that make up a bitcoin are VERY shiny)
9. all of the above. + very shiny

Fiat is:
1. Definitely not  Scarce, ( mage inflation in the money supply is monumental )
2. Not Durable
3. NOT Portable... compare it to bitcoin, ( try sending 1 million dollars across the globe, try sending 10 cents. then try again but with bitcoin AHhhhh you starting to get it now eh )
5.  Impossible to counterfeit LMAO
6. Fungible... ya maybe...
7. Easy to keep safe? ya all it required is huge banks, and even then....  the only reason it works is the fact the government has no problem printing (out of thin air ITS MAGIC!) as much money as they need to be solvent any time they need it, you do know what a bailout is right?
8. Shiny? Its has cocaine allover it so no... not shiny

the only thing that fiat  has going for it is that its widely accepted, for now!
"

in short:

[dreamspark]

since its quite boring in here go have a look at this thread..

-> https://asktom.cf/index.php?topic=20336.0

EPIC BUMP

Lol I posted in this thread yesterday and seem to have sparked off the hilarity of being able to find out how much the transfer was for and then getting the OP's whole trade history from the gox database dump. I hadnt seen the replies so cheers for posting it