Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[fonzie]

CHOOOOOOOOOOOOCHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Bitfinex goin mad


MtGox givin back all USD with a premium??  

[cbutters]

I need train pictures STAT!

[sonofliberty]

[MAbtc]

IRS Says Bitcoin is Property, Not Currency
In a notice, the IRS said that it generally would treat Bitcoin held by investors much like stock or other intangible property. If the virtual currency is held for investment, any gains would be treated as capital gains, meaning they could be subject to lower tax rates.

http://stream.wsj.com/story/markets/SS-2-5/SS-2-490994/

[chilin_dude]

IRS Says Bitcoin is Property, Not Currency
In a notice, the IRS said that it generally would treat Bitcoin held by investors much like stock or other intangible property. If the virtual currency is held for investment, any gains would be treated as capital gains, meaning they could be subject to lower tax rates.

http://stream.wsj.com/story/markets/SS-2-5/SS-2-490994/

Behind paywall.
This is better:
http://www.businessinsider.com/irs-bitcoin-is-property-not-currency-full-release-2014-3


IRS Virtual Currency Guidance: Virtual Currency Is Treated as Property for U.S. Federal Tax Purposes; General Rules for Property Transactions Apply

IR-2014-36, March. 25, 2014

WASHINGTON – The Internal Revenue Service today issued a notice providing answers to frequently asked questions (FAQs) on virtual currency, such as Bitcoin. These FAQs provide basic information on the U.S. federal tax implications of transactions in, or transactions that use, virtual currency.

In some environments, virtual currency operates like “real” currency -- i.e., the coin and paper money of the United States or of any other country that is designated as legal tender, circulates, and is customarily used and accepted as a medium of exchange in the country of issuance -- but it does not have legal tender status in any jurisdiction.

The notice provides that virtual currency is treated as property for U.S. federal tax purposes.  General tax principles that apply to property transactions apply to transactions using virtual currency.  Among other things, this means that:

* Wages paid to employees using virtual currency are taxable to the employee, must be reported by an employer on a Form W-2, and are subject to federal income tax withholding and payroll taxes.

* Payments using virtual currency made to independent contractors and other service providers are taxable and self-employment tax rules generally apply.  Normally, payers must issue Form 1099.

* The character of gain or loss from the sale or exchange of virtual currency depends on whether the virtual currency is a capital asset in the hands of the taxpayer.

* A payment made using virtual currency is subject to information reporting to the same extent as any other payment made in property.

Further details, including a set of 16 questions and answers, are in Notice 2014-21, posted today on IRS.gov.

[windjc]

IRS Says Bitcoin is Property, Not Currency
In a notice, the IRS said that it generally would treat Bitcoin held by investors much like stock or other intangible property. If the virtual currency is held for investment, any gains would be treated as capital gains, meaning they could be subject to lower tax rates.

http://stream.wsj.com/story/markets/SS-2-5/SS-2-490994/

Behind paywall.
This is better:
http://www.businessinsider.com/irs-bitcoin-is-property-not-currency-full-release-2014-3

This is bullish but expected.

[keithers]

Good to see i'm not the only one starting to feel bullish when reading this thread. The sun is shining, summer is coming. Bitcoin u may rise now please.  

This is sad if Bitcoin price is dependent on how we feel about the weather.

Everyone knows that when it is raining in Zimbabwe, the prices go down...

[nakaone]

670.000 coins back to the market ? 

[windjc]

Any predictions what will happen if this is true?
https://twitter.com/CanarslanEren/status/448418452701974528

If its true and assuming they refund people's bitcoins, then what will happen is that there will be a lot of happy people. Beyond that, not much will happen. A few people might sell some, but most people will hold. And overall community sentiment will be more positive. Probably not much difference in regards to price.

[Tyson95]

With the ruling by the IRS does that mean Americans can start investing in Bitcoin with their 401K retirement plans?

[nakaone]

Any predictions what will happen if this is true?
https://twitter.com/CanarslanEren/status/448418452701974528

If its true and assuming they refund people's bitcoins, then what will happen is that there will be a lot of happy people. Beyond that, not much will happen. A few people might sell some, but most people will hold. And overall community sentiment will be more positive. Probably not much difference in regards to price.

imagine just 10% of the coins are sodled - I do not get the redditors who say that that is bullish

I am happy for the guys having coins in mtgox

[chriswilmer]

Any predictions what will happen if this is true?
https://twitter.com/CanarslanEren/status/448418452701974528

If its true and assuming they refund people's bitcoins, then what will happen is that there will be a lot of happy people. Beyond that, not much will happen. A few people might sell some, but most people will hold. And overall community sentiment will be more positive. Probably not much difference in regards to price.

imagine just 10% of the coins are sodled - I do not get the redditors who say that that is bullish

I am happy for the guys having coins in mtgox

It's bullish. Period. Either those coins are in the hands of thieves or they are in the hands of the "rightful" owners. The only thing that would have been more bullish is if we had proof the coins were irretrievably lost.

[gizmoh]

Any predictions what will happen if this is true?
https://twitter.com/CanarslanEren/status/448418452701974528

If its true and assuming they refund people's bitcoins, then what will happen is that there will be a lot of happy people. Beyond that, not much will happen. A few people might sell some, but most people will hold. And overall community sentiment will be more positive. Probably not much difference in regards to price.

Yea sure! Goxxers who bought coins at 100-300 (huge volume happened in this range) will not sell for 500-600.
Rather they will sacrifice the 2x-6x profit to spare the anemic bid sum of $12 million: a typical perma-bull fantasy..

[windjc]

Any predictions what will happen if this is true?
https://twitter.com/CanarslanEren/status/448418452701974528

If its true and assuming they refund people's bitcoins, then what will happen is that there will be a lot of happy people. Beyond that, not much will happen. A few people might sell some, but most people will hold. And overall community sentiment will be more positive. Probably not much difference in regards to price.

imagine just 10% of the coins are sodled - I do not get the redditors who say that that is bullish

I am happy for the guys having coins in mtgox

Since the history of bitcoin time, people have been constantly speculating about "what if so and so sells or dumps so and so coins."  

People aren't going to mindlessly dump coins. For most of us, we already wrote these losses off in our minds. So no ones going to be selling their coins to party like its 1999.

Look, I can play this "imagine" game too:

"Imagine if everyone is so happy to get their lost investment back that they buy more coins! What if every Mtgox account holder buys just 1 more coin. That literally hundreds of thousands of coins being bought!"

[akujin]

gox returning coins won't stop other exchanges from stealing coins 

[windjc]

Any predictions what will happen if this is true?
https://twitter.com/CanarslanEren/status/448418452701974528

If its true and assuming they refund people's bitcoins, then what will happen is that there will be a lot of happy people. Beyond that, not much will happen. A few people might sell some, but most people will hold. And overall community sentiment will be more positive. Probably not much difference in regards to price.

Yea sure! Goxxers who bought coins at 100-300 (huge volume happened in this range) will not sell for 500-600.
Rather they will sacrifice the 2x-6x profit to spare the anemic bid sum of $12 million: a typical perma-bull fantasy..

Right. Because people dump aimlessly all the time.  

The only reason to buy cheap coins is to dump them higher.  

[windjc]

Any predictions what will happen if this is true?
https://twitter.com/CanarslanEren/status/448418452701974528

If its true and assuming they refund people's bitcoins, then what will happen is that there will be a lot of happy people. Beyond that, not much will happen. A few people might sell some, but most people will hold. And overall community sentiment will be more positive. Probably not much difference in regards to price.

Yea sure! Goxxers who bought coins at 100-300 (huge volume happened in this range) will not sell for 500-600.
Rather they will sacrifice the 2x-6x profit to spare the anemic bid sum of $12 million: a typical perma-bull fantasy..

I am more than happy to make this bet with you: 5 BTC in escrow.

If Mtgox gives a 80%-100% refund in coins, the price of Bitcoin will not decrease on increased volume more than $100 less than the day of the refund within 2 weeks of the refund.

[Adrian-x]

I think that we are really starting to see adoption on a grand scale.   [ ... ] large wave of companies starting to accept bitcoin.   Everyday you jump on the internet, you see a new company starting to accept bitcoin.   It is simple logic that as more companies accept it, the more people will need bitcoin.   

People investing in something should try to have a realistic and accurate picture of its value, market etc.  Focusing only on positve side of news is not good for businesses.

I have seen a few anecdotes about companies starting to accepting payment in USD through BitPay, mostly from customers who already own bitcoins.  And BitPay's CEO said that they do not keep bitcoins themselves; they sell them as soon as they get them.

There seems to be no statistics on

   (a) how many stores really accept payment in Bitcoin, rather than USD through BitPay-like services.  (Many retailers work with rather tight
   profit margins; I don't see how they could post prices in BTC with the current volatility of the latter.)

  (b) how many people buy bitcoin for the purpose of paying for goods and services (as opposed to speculating, giving gifts, etc.), and how
  many dollars that amounts to.

  (c) how many stores have stopped accepting payment in bitcoins (directly or through BitPay-like services).

Overstock once or twice posted how much they sold through bitcoin.  Were there any updates?

I suppose that BitPay publishes some data regularly on their volume.

People should only invest in Bitcoin for 1 of 2 reasons.
1) you understand these intellectuals position of how money functions and can directly relate it to Bitcoin.
2) beleve Bitcoin is a technology going through a hype cycle allowing traders / marketers to proffit via the greater fool theory of investing.  

Jorge you skepticism is predisposed to providing the greater fool theory.
You are overlooking Bitcoin as a " risk distribution virus"  it is a distributed socialized voluntary p2p wealth preservation system.

It only works if you beleve in 1 above that is your insurance (the cure to buying high and selling low) . And secondary if you invest your excess wealth in the system, which changes your behavior aligning your self intrest with that of the community.

You drew a metaphor to accepting Bitcoin is like accepting addictive and destructive drugs. It is but it isn't destructive it's like choosing to live in civilization as opposed to living like a self sufficient cave man under the control of the dinosaurs, once you try it the benefits are obvious.

Dinosaurs are on the verge of extinction and higher levels of consciousness is about to evolve in smaller mammals.

If you invest for reason 2 above you will lose your money over the long run here the price fixing greater fools will try guarantee a greater fool with a price fixing mechanism.

Bitcoin is unstoppable if it is eventually controlled by type 2 investors type 1 investors take the proffit and invest in a new cryptocurrency.  

[KeyserSoze]

will the 598 slowly creep down, pushing price along with it, then suddenly disappear while the owner buys up to 600?

[roslinpl]

670.000 coins back to the market ? 

Well seems like it is going a good way like I predicted today ! but we will see tomorrow and later on.