Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[fichtn12345]

and when you realise how absolutely corrupt and broken the fiat socialists ponzi scheme tax-prison farm really is then you go wtf and go all-in 100% adopt bitcoin.

This.

is gentleman?!

[grappa_barricata]

There's one simple counter to that, and I'm not the first one to make that observation:
Sometimes price runs ahead of adoption (and will eventually get back to reality). Sometimes adoption runs ahead of price (and it'll take a while before price reacts to that).
Last time that happened was late 2012/early 2013, when about 1.5 years of very impressive network growth explosively made themselves known to the market.
EDIT: But if your point is that from growing adoption we can't conclude that we're going to see rising price now-ish, then I agree of course.

Fair enough, it make sense. Maybe there is a adoption-price correlation that is not evident at these short timescales due to too much variance. We'll have to wait for some way to measure adoption to see this. Data mining on the blockchain can't be trusted: too easy to manipulate unique non-zero addresses, numbers of transactions (old coins can be transacted without fees, so they can be spammed), days destroyed and so on. Search trends tell us nothing useful. What else can we use? I'm out of ideas already.

[criptix]

@oda.kell: think of it in another way:

If we assume that adoption drive prices, then a metric of adoption would be the price itself. This will tell you that adoption has not grown in the past year.
If instead, we assume that adoption doesn't drive prices then the discussion is irrelevant for future prices.

Note that I intuitively believe that adoption has grown, but also that it is not linked to price at all.

Sometimes price runs ahead of adoption (and will eventually get back to reality).

you mean speculators? 

[mymenace]

and when you realise how absolutely corrupt and broken the fiat socialists ponzi scheme tax-prison farm really is then you go wtf and go all-in 100% adopt bitcoin.

This.

THis might happen, but will probably take years. I am sure even amongst us, there would be hardly anyone who would do this at this stage.

when you realise

[oda.krell]

@oda.kell: think of it in another way:

If we assume that adoption drive prices, then a metric of adoption would be the price itself. This will tell you that adoption has not grown in the past year.
If instead, we assume that adoption doesn't drive prices then the discussion is irrelevant for future prices.

Note that I intuitively believe that adoption has grown, but also that it is not linked to price at all.

Sometimes price runs ahead of adoption (and will eventually get back to reality).

you mean speculators? 

Yes, but there's also nothing wrong with that. I'll happily admit that at $350, there's still plenty of speculative valuation included. But how could it be any different? As long as there's a single person on an exchange having some faint hope that fundamentals will continue to grow and eventually price will reflect that, it's perfectly reasonable for him or her to buy a coin above the "pure" non-speculative value. And I'm pretty sure there's more than one person holding that belief

[lyth0s]

...
Also when I tell people that I can get up to 20% discounts on amazon (using purse.io) people are ecstatic about bitcoin. ...

Lol, "get up to 20%."  I actually checked it out, feel Rickrolled now
Technically, you can get up to 100% off.  Your discount depends on how much of a premium people are willing to pay for your BTC over market.

How it works

Firstly, when someone – Alice, say – wants to use bitcoin to purchase items for a discount from Amazon, she deposits bitcoin in her Purse.io account. Then, using a 'share' URL, she imports her Amazon 'wish list' into Purse.io and indicates what level of discount she would like for the items.

--Coindesk

Much hilarity ensues.

15-20% off happens very often, not sure what is entertaining about that though?

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[LFC_Bitcoin]

Go home Chart Buddy you're drunk.

[explorer]

and when you realise how absolutely corrupt and broken the fiat socialists ponzi scheme tax-prison farm really is then you go wtf and go all-in 100% adopt bitcoin.

This.

THis might happen, but will probably take years. I am sure even amongst us, there would be hardly anyone who would do this at this stage.

They are there.  Some vocal and crusading, some quiet.  But they are there, and I expect numbers are increasing rather than decreasing.  Just bear in mind that the masses are always wrong, always late. 

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[FatherBob]

...
Also when I tell people that I can get up to 20% discounts on amazon (using purse.io) people are ecstatic about bitcoin. ...

Lol, "get up to 20%."  I actually checked it out, feel Rickrolled now
Technically, you can get up to 100% off.  Your discount depends on how much of a premium people are willing to pay for your BTC over market.

How it works

Firstly, when someone – Alice, say – wants to use bitcoin to purchase items for a discount from Amazon, she deposits bitcoin in her Purse.io account. Then, using a 'share' URL, she imports her Amazon 'wish list' into Purse.io and indicates what level of discount she would like for the items.

--Coindesk

Much hilarity ensues.

15-20% off happens very often, not sure what is entertaining about that though?

I'm sure it does, my son, because Circle charges more than 20% when you buy BTC with credit cards there  

[Chalkbot]

...
Also when I tell people that I can get up to 20% discounts on amazon (using purse.io) people are ecstatic about bitcoin. ...

Lol, "get up to 20%."  I actually checked it out, feel Rickrolled now
Technically, you can get up to 100% off.  Your discount depends on how much of a premium people are willing to pay for your BTC over market.

How it works

Firstly, when someone – Alice, say – wants to use bitcoin to purchase items for a discount from Amazon, she deposits bitcoin in her Purse.io account. Then, using a 'share' URL, she imports her Amazon 'wish list' into Purse.io and indicates what level of discount she would like for the items.

--Coindesk

Much hilarity ensues.

15-20% off happens very often, not sure what is entertaining about that though?

I'm sure it does, my son, because Circle charges more than 20% when you buy BTC with credit cards there  

He's right. 15-20% is not hard to get at purse.io. Seriously, go try it.

[NotLambchop]

^Bitcoiner logic:

>bitch about 3% credit card fees they never actually have to pay
>pay 20% too much for Bitcoin AND buy it with credit card

[janos666]

3% credit card fees they neveractually have to pay

Who pays it then?
I know a PC shop owner who directly charges the exact VISA/Mastercard fees over the cash ticker prices if you draw out your plastic instead of your paper. (No, he doesn't accept BTC or gold/silver, it's a different story.)

--

LoL. What's this?
~1000 BTC sold on Bitstamp -> no price move anywhere (not even on stamp)
~100 BTC sold on Bitfinex -> price falls on finex and also starts dropping everywhere else on similarly low volume

[Chalkbot]

^Bitcoiner logic:

>bitch about 3% credit card fees they never actually have to pay
>pay 20% too much for Bitcoin AND buy it with credit card

That might be the case (it's really a mystery to me) although I find it more likely that it simply becomes a good buying opportunity for people with Prime accounts (no shipping costs), Amazon rewards cards, and/or affiliate discounts, or people who accumulate credit with Amazon Mechanical Turk or gift cards which are hard to liquidate otherwise. Essentially people are exchanging their discounts/credits for bitcoin.

There's probably some level of credit card fraud, or people who don't WANT to sign up at circle or the like for a plethora of reasons, or simply not intending to pay the credit debt, and maybe even some charity going on here, but I find all of these scenarios more likely than they are simply eating the 20% markup on coins because they can't find a better place to buy them.

[NotLambchop]

^Bitcoiner logic:

>bitch about 3% credit card fees they neveractually have to pay
>pay 20% too much for Bitcoin AND buy it with credit card

Who pays it then?
I know a PC shop owner who directly charges the exact VISA/Mastercard fees over the cash ticker prices if you draw out your plastic instead of your paper. (No, he doesn't accept BTC or gold/silver, it's a different story.)

The merchant pays it (passing it on to the consumer by inflating the price).  This means that if you shop with cash or BTC without getting a discount, you're subsidizing my CC use.  
It also means that Bitcoiners buying coin through purse.io are paying 20% more because they hate paying 3%.

Of course, the alleged 20% savings is actually a loss if you buy your coin through purse.io, amiright?

[lyth0s]

...
Also when I tell people that I can get up to 20% discounts on amazon (using purse.io) people are ecstatic about bitcoin. ...

Lol, "get up to 20%."  I actually checked it out, feel Rickrolled now
Technically, you can get up to 100% off.  Your discount depends on how much of a premium people are willing to pay for your BTC over market.

How it works

Firstly, when someone – Alice, say – wants to use bitcoin to purchase items for a discount from Amazon, she deposits bitcoin in her Purse.io account. Then, using a 'share' URL, she imports her Amazon 'wish list' into Purse.io and indicates what level of discount she would like for the items.

--Coindesk

Much hilarity ensues.

15-20% off happens very often, not sure what is entertaining about that though?

I'm sure it does, my son, because Circle charges more than 20% when you buy BTC with credit cards there  

You're obviously new to the bitcoin scene. Try purse.io and get your 15-20% off before you try to knock it down.

You have to remember that services like coinbase/circle only work in certain countries/states. Countries that need bitcoin the most, like Argentina, usually can't use them and when they try to buy bitcoin off their local legal exchanges/services they pay the countries "official" USD rate, which is basically 20% more than what the bitcoin actually cost AND on top of that the services/ATM's take an extra 5-7% AND the country will later tax them (now their btc address is known) if their value of bitcoin rises against the countries currency.

Welcome newbie, you have a lot to learn.


Also guys please don't quote trollchop. Credit cards do charge a fee for their services, usually a base fee + percent, IE $0.25 + 2-3%. Sometimes the retailer actually doesn't consider having a "credit card fee" since they instead pay a middle man a set rate for their services which comes bundled as the CC machines + network + repair + support and then the middle man turns around and pays the CC visa/mastercard fees.

[adamstgBit]

massive wall down on virtex.

[janos666]

^Bitcoiner logic:

>bitch about 3% credit card fees they neveractually have to pay
>pay 20% too much for Bitcoin AND buy it with credit card

Who pays it then?
I know a PC shop owner who directly charges the exact VISA/Mastercard fees over the cash ticker prices if you draw out your plastic instead of your paper. (No, he doesn't accept BTC or gold/silver, it's a different story.)

The merchant pays it (passing it on to the consumer by inflating the price).

Wait a minute...
Naturally, this was the obvious answer but ... weren't you supposed to be a troll and sh|t and thus deny this answer?
Ah! I guess you finally managed to troll me by reverse-trolling. Nice.

[podyx]

I've been surprised at the degree of correlation between XBTUSD and CL1.  Still and all,
Monkey is telling me to try buying oil again between Monday and Wednesday, but doesn't expect XBT up until late next week.

Mostly, Monkey just expects me to shut up and stay short SPUs until roughly Wednesday.

USDJPY unlikely to see any upside until mid-to-late next week.
EURNOK going *up* through Tuesday or Wednesday.

Monkey expects a lot of turning points next week.  First to turn might be US long bonds.  Monkey actually made me sell, because risk was picking up too much.

Monkey made you sell BTC or US long bonds??