Just-Dice.com : now with added CLAMs : Play or Invest

[dooglus]

The issue with your idea of holding coins locally is... what's to keep me from saying I have more than I do? Let's say you use 10% as the baseline. I have 30 coins. There's no way for you to know I don't really have 300, so I could just invest the 30 I have and claim I have 10x that.

There's nothing to stop you lying about how many coins you hold locally, but it would be fooling to claim you have more coins that you really do, because you'll end up risking too much and the volatility will bust you.

JD won't let you lose more than you actually deposit, so it's up to you.

I didn't work out all the details yet, but will be working on it for the next week or so.

[ranlo]

The issue with your idea of holding coins locally is... what's to keep me from saying I have more than I do? Let's say you use 10% as the baseline. I have 30 coins. There's no way for you to know I don't really have 300, so I could just invest the 30 I have and claim I have 10x that.

There's nothing to stop you lying about how many coins you hold locally, but it would be fooling to claim you have more coins that you really do, because you'll end up risking too much and the volatility will bust you.

JD won't let you lose more than you actually deposit, so it's up to you.

I didn't work out all the details yet, but will be working on it for the next week or so.

Yeah, someone had replied to me basically saying the same thing. I wasn't thinking about it from that perspective. It's an awesome idea to do and allows investors to choose their risk even better, as well as fabricate numbers and just buy in for the difference (i.e., I have 30 coins, I say I have 300, I lose the 30 I had, so I just use an exchange to buy more and reinvest).

[dooglus]

Yeah, someone had replied to me basically saying the same thing. I wasn't thinking about it from that perspective. It's an awesome idea to do and allows investors to choose their risk even better, as well as fabricate numbers and just buy in for the difference (i.e., I have 30 coins, I say I have 300, I lose the 30 I had, so I just use an exchange to buy more and reinvest).

I hadn't thought about it that way, but yeah that works too.

"I want to invest 10k CLAMs, but I don't actually want to buy them all yet. So I'll buy 100 and invest those, and hopefully I win and don't need to buy the rest, but if I lose I'll buy some more".

[ranlo]

Yeah, someone had replied to me basically saying the same thing. I wasn't thinking about it from that perspective. It's an awesome idea to do and allows investors to choose their risk even better, as well as fabricate numbers and just buy in for the difference (i.e., I have 30 coins, I say I have 300, I lose the 30 I had, so I just use an exchange to buy more and reinvest).

I hadn't thought about it that way, but yeah that works too.

"I want to invest 10k CLAMs, but I don't actually want to buy them all yet. So I'll buy 100 and invest those, and hopefully I win and don't need to buy the rest, but if I lose I'll buy some more".

Exactly. Dice Investments in Dice. It's a unique offering, too, .

[picolo]

The issue with your idea of holding coins locally is... what's to keep me from saying I have more than I do? Let's say you use 10% as the baseline. I have 30 coins. There's no way for you to know I don't really have 300, so I could just invest the 30 I have and claim I have 10x that.

There's nothing to stop you lying about how many coins you hold locally, but it would be fooling to claim you have more coins that you really do, because you'll end up risking too much and the volatility will bust you.

JD won't let you lose more than you actually deposit, so it's up to you.

I didn't work out all the details yet, but will be working on it for the next week or so.

If investments are marked are 10 times what they are and the players are lucky, most investors will not keep depositing and the bankroll will dry up.

[chilly2k]

The issue with your idea of holding coins locally is... what's to keep me from saying I have more than I do? Let's say you use 10% as the baseline. I have 30 coins. There's no way for you to know I don't really have 300, so I could just invest the 30 I have and claim I have 10x that.

There's nothing to stop you lying about how many coins you hold locally, but it would be fooling to claim you have more coins that you really do, because you'll end up risking too much and the volatility will bust you.

JD won't let you lose more than you actually deposit, so it's up to you.

I didn't work out all the details yet, but will be working on it for the next week or so.

If investments are marked are 10 times what they are and the players are lucky, most investors will not keep depositing and the bankroll will dry up.

  The investors will have that option.  For those that want less risk, then they should not claim more clams then they have, or just the amount they deposit.  

On a side note: Your claimed amount is also increasing the Max bet amount.  That means the more you claim the more you're increasing the chance that you bust.
 
  I don't know if Doog will implement a .5% or 99.5% limit (however you look at it.), on claimed amounts.  The max bet is .5% of the bankroll.  So claiming you have more then that would cause the max bet to increase more then your actual investment, and would cause others to potentially lose coins.    

interesting dilemma...    

[picolo]

The issue with your idea of holding coins locally is... what's to keep me from saying I have more than I do? Let's say you use 10% as the baseline. I have 30 coins. There's no way for you to know I don't really have 300, so I could just invest the 30 I have and claim I have 10x that.

There's nothing to stop you lying about how many coins you hold locally, but it would be fooling to claim you have more coins that you really do, because you'll end up risking too much and the volatility will bust you.

JD won't let you lose more than you actually deposit, so it's up to you.

I didn't work out all the details yet, but will be working on it for the next week or so.

If investments are marked are 10 times what they are and the players are lucky, most investors will not keep depositing and the bankroll will dry up.

  The investors will have that option.  For those that want less risk, then they should not claim more clams then they have, or just the amount they deposit.  

On a side note: Your claimed amount is also increasing the Max bet amount.  That means the more you claim the more you're increasing the chance that you bust.
 
  I don't know if Doog will implement a .5% or 99.5% limit (however you look at it.), on claimed amounts.  The max bet is .5% of the bankroll.  So claiming you have more then that would cause the max bet to increase more then your actual investment, and would cause others to potentially lose coins.    

interesting dilemma...    

Claiming more coins that you have will cause other to lose OR WIN more coins.

If you can deposit 100CLAM and have 20,000CLAM invested it will be pretty crazy because if you are lucky you can make a fortune

[Josepht]

I don't get this idea (tell them you have 30, while you have actually 300).

What if there is a lucky winner who wins 15% of the bankroll. You have invested 300, so you'll lose 45 coins. That is not possible, since you only have 30 coins.

Have you thought about this?

[pureelite]

nice to see that JD got new chat features

hoping to see a lot more!

[chilly2k]

I don't get this idea (tell them you have 30, while you have actually 300).

What if there is a lucky winner who wins 15% of the bankroll. You have invested 300, so you'll lose 45 coins. That is not possible, since you only have 30 coins.

Have you thought about this?

  If someone gets lucky, and your bankroll goes to zero (because your leveraged) your busted.  Once you lose your 30 coins, the other 270 that you claimed you had would be removed from the JD bankroll, and the maxbet would be adjusted to the new bankroll.  Just as if you lost the whole 300, but you only lost 30.   

[ranlo]

I don't get this idea (tell them you have 30, while you have actually 300).

What if there is a lucky winner who wins 15% of the bankroll. You have invested 300, so you'll lose 45 coins. That is not possible, since you only have 30 coins.

Have you thought about this?

  If someone gets lucky, and your bankroll goes to zero (because your leveraged) your busted.  Once you lose your 30 coins, the other 270 that you claimed you had would be removed from the JD bankroll, and the maxbet would be adjusted to the new bankroll.  Just as if you lost the whole 300, but you only lost 30.   

Actually, his question was a great one and something my mind skipped over. Let me help him illustrate the scenario better (a theoretical one, as it would be unlikely to work this way, BUT still possible nonetheless).

For this, we're going to use 2 investors and a max winning of 5% of the pot.

Investor A puts in 10 CLAM, claiming he has 100.
Investor B puts in 10 CLAM, claiming he has 900.

Someone puts in a bet and on the first time wins the 5%. This is 5% of 1000, or 50 CLAM.

The issue here, as you'll see, is that the winnable amount is more than there actually are. In other words, the person that just won 50 CLAM actually only won 20, while taking a much greater risk to do so.

This is where the issues come in. Now theoretically this wouldn't happen as most investors would keep on a 1:1 ratio and therefore it shouldn't be problematic. But if an investing whale comes in and boosts it (or a couple do), it could result in the majority of the bankroll, if not more than there are, being lost.

Dooglus, had you already considered this scenario and how it would be handled? Again, it's a small chance, but any chance should be accounted for because let's face it: things happen.

[dooglus]

Dooglus, had you already considered this scenario and how it would be handled? Again, it's a small chance, but any chance should be accounted for because let's face it: things happen.

Yes, you won't be allowed to risk more than you have on deposit.

If the max profit was 5% then it would be silly for JD to let you leverage by more than 20x.

[ranlo]

Dooglus, had you already considered this scenario and how it would be handled? Again, it's a small chance, but any chance should be accounted for because let's face it: things happen.

Yes, you won't be allowed to risk more than you have on deposit.

If the max profit was 5% then it would be silly for JD to let you leverage by more than 20x.

I get you now. For some reason, the math wasn't clicking properly with me, but after running it again, you're right.

[picolo]

Some heavy buying on poloniex!

[toddtervy]

Works pretty good with clams, fast confirm times.

[seuntjie]

Seuntjies DiceBot update:

Updates for v2.5.5
  added labouchere system
  slight gui redesign


Newest Version: 2.5.5
Complete download: http://sourceforge.net/projects/seuntjiejddb/files/Complete%20Release/DiceBot-2.5.5.zip/download
         alternate link: http://www.seuntjie.com/Downloads/DiceBot-2.5.5.zip
Update only: http://sourceforge.net/projects/seuntjiejddb/files/Update%20Only/DiceBot-2.5.5.exe/download (replace previous .exe with this one, requires v2.5 or newer)
         alternate link: http://www.seuntjie.com/Downloads/DiceBot-2.5.5.exe

Source available at: https://sourceforge.net/p/seuntjiejddb/code/ci/master/tree/

See Beginners guide! https://asktom.cf/index.php?topic=391870

Original thread: https://asktom.cf/index.php?topic=307425

[picolo]

Works pretty good with clams, fast confirm times.

It works very well but the investors have an exchange risk that they need to take into account.

[ranlo]

Works pretty good with clams, fast confirm times.

It works very well but the investors have an exchange risk that they need to take into account.

This. If you invested soon after the site came online, you'd have earned about 10-15% total by now... but the exchange rate has dropped by over 60% since then, so you've actually lost about half of what you started with (you have more coins but they are worth a fraction of what they used to be).

[picolo]

Works pretty good with clams, fast confirm times.

It works very well but the investors have an exchange risk that they need to take into account.

This. If you invested soon after the site came online, you'd have earned about 10-15% total by now... but the exchange rate has dropped by over 60% since then, so you've actually lost about half of what you started with (you have more coins but they are worth a fraction of what they used to be).

Soon after the site came online the price was 0.002-0.004, wasn't it? So you would be up.

[ranlo]

Works pretty good with clams, fast confirm times.

It works very well but the investors have an exchange risk that they need to take into account.

This. If you invested soon after the site came online, you'd have earned about 10-15% total by now... but the exchange rate has dropped by over 60% since then, so you've actually lost about half of what you started with (you have more coins but they are worth a fraction of what they used to be).

Soon after the site came online the price was 0.002-0.004, wasn't it? So you would be up.

0.007+ for a while. All for the first day or two it was ~0.006 with random spikes.