Incoming Avalon News 8/9/2013

[bigbeninlondon]

Man, im tired to defend myself to people that doesnt even bother if their claims are true.

I wonder if this is exactly how Bitsyncom feels.  Don't mean to kick the hornet's nest, but there's a lot of speculation and accusation going on in this thread and others that is generally baseless as hell.  The only two gripes we REALLY have are that the chips weren't delivered on time and Yifu has been very begrudging with information on his side.  All this talk about reselling chips and making insane profits and mining with CHIPS that have to be SODERED ONTO A BOARD before they work is just that; talk.  Can we please maintain a level head in all of this?  Yifu has already stated he's looking into refunds.  That's an acknowledgement that shit went wrong and an attempt to rectify the situation.  Can all the crazy people take a break for a little while so the grownups can sort shit out please?

read thread carefully, search for tracking numbers, and then skip to page 80 to see chips from china.

Those chips on page 80 prove nothing.  Those chips were bought by a reseller for a client that never showed up.  How does that prove anything at all?  Everything on this thread is pure speculation.

[ecliptic]

Man, im tired to defend myself to people that doesnt even bother if their claims are true.

I wonder if this is exactly how Bitsyncom feels.  Don't mean to kick the hornet's nest, but there's a lot of speculation and accusation going on in this thread and others that is generally baseless as hell.  The only two gripes we REALLY have are that the chips weren't delivered on time and Yifu has been very begrudging with information on his side.  All this talk about reselling chips and making insane profits and mining with CHIPS that have to be SODERED ONTO A BOARD before they work is just that; talk.  Can we please maintain a level head in all of this?  Yifu has already stated he's looking into refunds.  That's an acknowledgement that shit went wrong and an attempt to rectify the situation.  Can all the crazy people take a break for a little while so the grownups can sort shit out please?

read thread carefully, search for tracking numbers, and then skip to page 80 to see chips from china.

Those chips on page 80 prove nothing.  Those chips were bought by a reseller for a client that never showed up.  How does that prove anything at all?  Everything on this thread is pure speculation.

Why the fuck are chips ordered in april, with an 8-10 week leadtime coming down with 2-3x that leadtime?

All the evidence points to the fact that the first batch was indeed ordered, but never showed up.  These very few chips that have begun to ship?  They were ordered from the fab 8-10 weeks ago from today.

They are fucking chips from TSMC.  They've already been made, the masks are good, it's simply a process of ordering more.  It's the simplest fucking thing in the world, there is no long and complicated supply chain for a PCB assembly.  There is the manufacturer of the chips, and the group buy / private party buying them.

[bigbeninlondon]

Man, im tired to defend myself to people that doesnt even bother if their claims are true.

I wonder if this is exactly how Bitsyncom feels.  Don't mean to kick the hornet's nest, but there's a lot of speculation and accusation going on in this thread and others that is generally baseless as hell.  The only two gripes we REALLY have are that the chips weren't delivered on time and Yifu has been very begrudging with information on his side.  All this talk about reselling chips and making insane profits and mining with CHIPS that have to be SODERED ONTO A BOARD before they work is just that; talk.  Can we please maintain a level head in all of this?  Yifu has already stated he's looking into refunds.  That's an acknowledgement that shit went wrong and an attempt to rectify the situation.  Can all the crazy people take a break for a little while so the grownups can sort shit out please?

Nobody gives a shit about "acknowledging" solmething went wrong.  That's self-evident, even a child can see that

What is desired, and what is purposely being withheld, covered up, and obfusciated is WHAT went wrong.

Ordering chips by a 10k reel from a fab and shipping them is orders of magnitude easier than selling their Batches #1 to #3

There is good evidence that a great deal of these chips EXISTED and WERE SHIPPED TOGETHER back in June to China.

Lots of talk on Chinese forums about backroom deals

Part of Avalon broke off at this time as well.  Did they take all the chips?   Why so secretive?

Are these new batches just the "OH FUCK" second order they had to make?

He said himself "NO BS" terms.  Bullshit happened, and it wasn't explained.

Don't even start with "conspiracy" talk either.  These are plain facts, most of these yifu / avalon / etc admitted themselves. 

Until we get some real answers, nobody is going to trust Avalon.  I'm not sure why they're even bothering with a 2nd gen while they leave these unanswered.

The 'answers' we have gotten about customs simply do not line up with the facts, and don't account for what we have seen.

Sure, don't trust them.  Sure, don't bother with 2nd gen.  But can we stop assuming these baseless accusations of shady backroom dealings and mining with chips (that would have to be mounted to boards before mining, which would be easy to see on the chips themselves) and all of this baseless nonsense?  There are real issues here that I'm not discounting.  I just hate all the extra bullshit that slips in and then is repeated over and over until everyone assumes it's the truth.  The truth is: A) Chips are late as fuck B) Yifu is very withholding of crucial information and C) He's offering refunds.  Everything else is speculation and should be treated as such.

[ecliptic]

Man, im tired to defend myself to people that doesnt even bother if their claims are true.

I wonder if this is exactly how Bitsyncom feels.  Don't mean to kick the hornet's nest, but there's a lot of speculation and accusation going on in this thread and others that is generally baseless as hell.  The only two gripes we REALLY have are that the chips weren't delivered on time and Yifu has been very begrudging with information on his side.  All this talk about reselling chips and making insane profits and mining with CHIPS that have to be SODERED ONTO A BOARD before they work is just that; talk.  Can we please maintain a level head in all of this?  Yifu has already stated he's looking into refunds.  That's an acknowledgement that shit went wrong and an attempt to rectify the situation.  Can all the crazy people take a break for a little while so the grownups can sort shit out please?

Nobody gives a shit about "acknowledging" solmething went wrong.  That's self-evident, even a child can see that

What is desired, and what is purposely being withheld, covered up, and obfusciated is WHAT went wrong.

Ordering chips by a 10k reel from a fab and shipping them is orders of magnitude easier than selling their Batches #1 to #3

There is good evidence that a great deal of these chips EXISTED and WERE SHIPPED TOGETHER back in June to China.

Lots of talk on Chinese forums about backroom deals

Part of Avalon broke off at this time as well.  Did they take all the chips?   Why so secretive?

Are these new batches just the "OH FUCK" second order they had to make?

He said himself "NO BS" terms.  Bullshit happened, and it wasn't explained.

Don't even start with "conspiracy" talk either.  These are plain facts, most of these yifu / avalon / etc admitted themselves.  

Until we get some real answers, nobody is going to trust Avalon.  I'm not sure why they're even bothering with a 2nd gen while they leave these unanswered.

The 'answers' we have gotten about customs simply do not line up with the facts, and don't account for what we have seen.

Sure, don't trust them.  Sure, don't bother with 2nd gen.  But can we stop assuming these baseless accusations of shady backroom dealings and mining with chips (that would have to be mounted to boards before mining, which would be easy to see on the chips themselves) and all of this baseless nonsense?  There are real issues here that I'm not discounting.  I just hate all the extra bullshit that slips in and then is repeated over and over until everyone assumes it's the truth.  The truth is: A) Chips are late as fuck B) Yifu is very withholding of crucial information and C) He's offering refunds.  Everything else is speculation and should be treated as such.

Yes, How fucking crazy to think that a possible 10 - 50,000,000$ profit in the hands of a dozen people or less classifies as a "conspiracy".

They're not mining with your chips and shipping them to you

They took your chips and ordered "your" chips 10+ weeks LATER, AGAIN, after SOMEONE took the first batch.

1. You order chips from TSMC
2. TSMC ships them 8-10 weeks later
3. You ship them to the customer

So what the fuck went wrong?

And stop with this fucking stupid ass strawman of "they took the chips, mounted them, then UNMOUNTED them and shipped them!"

No you asshole

They ordered the chips with your money, SOMEONE acquired them, used and still is using them for mining, and then they had to order another run of chips from TSMC after this happened.  That's why the chips are so late.

[dmcdad]

But can we stop assuming these baseless accusations of shady backroom dealings and mining with chips (that would have to be mounted to boards before mining, which would be easy to see on the chips themselves) and all of this baseless nonsense?

Again, it isn't baseless. We don't have all the information but there are lots of facts you apparently refuse to acknowledge. Until Yifu provides more information, or sets things right (refund, etc.), the accusations will continue.

[pajak666]

you can buy overpriced chips "in stock" at chinese market, chips pre-funded by bitcointalk community.
we have no chips, meanwhile chinese resellers have chips in stock with production date corelating with our orders.
troll harder

[Ytterbium]

Looks like yifu is pushing for full refunds for chip orders:

https://asktom.cf/index.php?topic=177827.msg3035535#msg3035535

Group buys should be okay, but someone is going to need to eat the cost of the PCB's and components.

I want my chips... Not a refund...
I hope it's still possible to receive chips and yofu will NOT refund just all orders...

Take your refund money and order a KnC or something.  Or bitfury.

[Dunkelheit667]

Yifu, to exercise professionalism fill out this form:

I will deliver all April chip orders until...
I will deliver all May chip orders until...
I will deliver all June chip orders until...
I will deliver all July chip orders until...

[bigbeninlondon]

They ordered the chips with your money, SOMEONE acquired them, used and still is using them for mining, and then they had to order another run of chips from TSMC after this happened.  That's why the chips are so late.

Who acquired them?  When?  How do you know these chips are the same as the chips we ordered?  This is exactly what I am talking about.  You have no information to back any of these accusations up except "I saw a picture!!!".

[bigbeninlondon]

you can buy overpriced chips "in stock" at chinese market, chips pre-funded by bitcointalk community.
we have no chips, meanwhile chinese resellers have chips in stock with production date corelating with our orders.
troll harder

Yea, because it's impossible that those chips were ordered by a Chinese reseller whose interested in bitcoin and got there before the group buys did.  Right?  There's no way that could possibly happen, right?

[ecliptic]

They ordered the chips with your money, SOMEONE acquired them, used and still is using them for mining, and then they had to order another run of chips from TSMC after this happened.  That's why the chips are so late.

Who acquired them?  When?  How do you know these chips are the same as the chips we ordered?  This is exactly what I am talking about.  You have no information to back any of these accusations up except "I saw a picture!!!".

Tracking Info

Manufacturer Silkscreen and timestamping on the chips themselves (Why the fuck are they ordered months after you had the money?)

Occam's Razor

Need I go on?

Unless there is concrete proof these chips were ordered within a few weeks of when the money was received, Avalon is lying.

[ProfMac]

Can all the crazy people take a break for a little while so the grownups can sort shit out please?

ROTFL.

Thanks.

[bigbeninlondon]

They ordered the chips with your money, SOMEONE acquired them, used and still is using them for mining, and then they had to order another run of chips from TSMC after this happened.  That's why the chips are so late.

Who acquired them?  When?  How do you know these chips are the same as the chips we ordered?  This is exactly what I am talking about.  You have no information to back any of these accusations up except "I saw a picture!!!".

Tracking Info

Manufacturer Silkscreen and timestamping on the chips themselves (Why the fuck are they ordered months after you had the money?)

Occam's Razor

Need I go on?

Unless there is concrete proof these chips were ordered within a few weeks of when the money was received, Avalon is lying.

Which is possible.  I'm not saying anything concrete.  I'm just saying can we quit with the crazy ass theoreticals for just a little while?

[spiccioli]

They ordered the chips with your money, SOMEONE acquired them, used and still is using them for mining, and then they had to order another run of chips from TSMC after this happened.  That's why the chips are so late.

Who acquired them?  When?  How do you know these chips are the same as the chips we ordered?  This is exactly what I am talking about.  You have no information to back any of these accusations up except "I saw a picture!!!".

Tracking Info

Manufacturer Silkscreen and timestamping on the chips themselves (Why the fuck are they ordered months after you had the money?)

Occam's Razor

Need I go on?

Unless there is concrete proof these chips were ordered within a few weeks of when the money was received, Avalon is lying.

Yifu said those chips went into batch #3 which was made up of 600 units.

But there is another thing I was pondering on... chips had to be paid in local currency, so they had to take 50-100K BTC and convert them into local currency... maybe this step is where things went south.

Just a thought.

spiccioli

[ecliptic]

They ordered the chips with your money, SOMEONE acquired them, used and still is using them for mining, and then they had to order another run of chips from TSMC after this happened.  That's why the chips are so late.

Who acquired them?  When?  How do you know these chips are the same as the chips we ordered?  This is exactly what I am talking about.  You have no information to back any of these accusations up except "I saw a picture!!!".

Tracking Info

Manufacturer Silkscreen and timestamping on the chips themselves (Why the fuck are they ordered months after you had the money?)

Occam's Razor

Need I go on?

Unless there is concrete proof these chips were ordered within a few weeks of when the money was received, Avalon is lying.

Which is possible.  I'm not saying anything concrete.  I'm just saying can we quit with the crazy ass theoreticals for just a little while?

There is no simple theory, maybe not even a complex theory, that explains the massive delay that absolves Avalon of guilt.

The simplest theory, that perfectly explains the delay, is they had to order a second batch of chips.

How the fuck is it a crazy theoretical?

What do you think is a "sane" theoretical explanation for the delays?  Because this bullshit about "customs" is certainly not it.

[dmcdad]

Yifu said those chips went into batch #3 which was made up of 600 units.

600 Avalons is less than 150K chips. 150K chips != 1M+ chips.

[bigbeninlondon]

I'm saying people are citing this theory as fact, when we don't actually know what is happening at all.  The real problem at this moment is a lack of full information.  We don't know if there was a second batch or not.  What if a first batch was contracted privately before the chips were offered to group buys?  We don't know.  I'm just asking people not state as fact what they don't know.  Some people read this and assume the crazytalk is well researched analysis.  It's misleading and it isn't helpful.

[ecliptic]

I'm saying people are citing this theory as fact, when we don't actually know what is happening at all.  The real problem at this moment is a lack of full information.  We don't know if there was a second batch or not.  What if a first batch was contracted privately before the chips were offered to group buys?  We don't know.  I'm just asking people not state as fact what they don't know.  Some people read this and assume the crazytalk is well researched analysis.  It's misleading and it isn't helpful.

Again, occam's razor.  Saying you know nothing is bullshit.  You should have at least the simpliest theory that explains it to go from.  Sadly, there's none that make sense that account for what we are seeing AND paint avalon in a good light


Why the fuck did Avalon splinter while chips were being delivered?  Custom's doesn't explain that

[bigbeninlondon]

I'm saying people are citing this theory as fact, when we don't actually know what is happening at all.  The real problem at this moment is a lack of full information.  We don't know if there was a second batch or not.  What if a first batch was contracted privately before the chips were offered to group buys?  We don't know.  I'm just asking people not state as fact what they don't know.  Some people read this and assume the crazytalk is well researched analysis.  It's misleading and it isn't helpful.

Again, occam's razor.  Saying you know nothing is bullshit.  You should have at least the simpliest theory that explains it to go from.  Sadly, there's none that make sense that account for what we are seeing AND paint avalon in a good light


Why the fuck did Avalon splinter while chips were being delivered?  Custom's doesn't explain that

Nothing has been explained yet.  That's my point.  Yifu has offered refunds.  Let's see how that plays out, and in the interim everyone calm down.

[dmcdad]

bigbeninlondon and ProfMac: I get it. You all don't like the noise, speculation, accusation, talk about Yifu's chi being damaged, whatever. But no amount of pleading is going to stop the dozens of people (representing hundreds) that are wondering where the millions of dollars they spent went. The only thing that will stop that, as I said, is for Yifu to make the situation right (refund, etc.), or provide a detailed and believable explanation as to WTF happened. That's it. Nothing else is going to make it stop.

In fact, look what happened when you pleaded for it to stop? We get a dozen more messages talking about the theories and accusations. See? It doesn't help.