NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information

[zman910]

Nxt seems so promising. Looking forward to joining and buying some coins.

[igmaca]

Who is currently working on the Decentralized Marketplace / Auction system?

I don't believe anyone, there were talks about using a torrent style system to distribute marketplace which could be loaded to client.  If you are interested in developing, there would be quite a large bounty available.

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Re: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information
February 17, 2014, 01:37:11 AM
Reply with quote  #35839
Quote from: bitcoinpaul on February 16, 2014, 11:06:41 PM
Quote from: bitmadaboutcoin on February 16, 2014, 10:58:30 PM
but isnt part of bcexts plan to lower fees and stop greedy hoard and forge? makin it not worth while?


His idea. We don't have to follow it.
I am following BCNext's plan! He is clearly much smarter than me, who am I to second guess his recommendations.
In any case it makes a lot of sense to me that NXT itself should be as close to free to use as possible. Think how much it costs to use the Internet, or normal cash. If using the internet had a per minute fee (like Compuserve did), it would never have become what it is. Most people dont seem to under stand this. Elasticity of price demand, eg. lower cost -> more volumes.

I suggest that everybody just IGNORE any amount that comes in from forging. If it comes in, great, if not, dont worry. NXT is about building an economy. What sort of economy would it be if everybody just sat around waiting and staring at their money waiting for it to magically and spontaneously spit out more money?? The fact that NXT actually does this every once in a while is fantastic, but it is NOT the reason to own NXT. [answer to my rhetorical question is "massive economic depression"]

The reason to own NXT is to be able to build a livelihood around it. Create a product like Anon's silver bars, create a service like many people have already done. You have to do something to get something. Its not really that strange that it works this way is it?

Unless you have 100 BTC and can buy 1 million NXT, you gotta work. Even if you have 1 million NXT, it would be much better if you invested in the best ideas and allow others to make a living.

I am in the process of coming up with ways normal people can make a living by building stuff on top of NXT, but the more people that contribute such ideas the better. I cant be the only one who has ideas on how to make money with NXT.

Let's play a game. post a way you can think of that somebody can make money with NXT, using the tech that is currently being developed. The best idea as measured by (estimated revenues divided by estimated costs to implement) will win 500 NXT bounty. If there is no consensus as to what idea has the best revenue/cost ratio, i will flip a coin and pick the one I like the best.

Deadline is before I sign off tonight, probably 6 to 8 hrs

James

At the dawn of electricity in the late nineteenth century was Thomas Edison envisioned a decentralized system with many small companies competing for generators installed near the point of consumption. Since the electricity distribution cables were still rare , the Edison Electric Lighting Company focused most of his first business in installing generators in small factories, shops, hotels and homes .
In 1888 , Edison had installed 1,700 small plants . In the early twentieth century , more than half of U.S. electricity It was self-produced by industries that took advantage of the waste heat and excess electricity sold to nearby customers.

Would it be possible to implement Nxt platform under the distributed energy market or better distributed green energy market ?

Is a market where producers and consumers of energy would cross their sales orders and purchase orders simultaneously.

Today a small community of neighbors or landowners can generate and sell energy through solar PV , mini wind power, etc. .

For example an owner decide to install in his home to energy consumption solar pv but at certain times of day to spare and is now selling the excess energy in the Nxt platform.

At one point he needs same energy and buys his deficit in the Nxt platform.

both buyer and seller should obviously pay transport costs to distribution companies but the market for the generation and consumption of energy would peer ( peer to peer) .

This would link with the colored coins and the contract system like Ethereum .

Does anyone dare with the idea ?

If anyone dares I'm interested to collaborate .




I might have to start riding a subforum within nxt  and capture programming experts, renewable energy experts (Here you may include me) experts on markets, marketing, etc. and start brainstorming.

Nxt I think will make sense when it is full of content.

I'm thinking about the war that was with standard video players as they left. There was a video player launched by Philips that was technically the best but in the end won the battle Sony with beta system because it was the first to incorporate all hollywood movies in their system.

in substance filled it with contents

I propose to create a thread for every idea that the community is considered feasible and start brainstorming. 

[ChuckOne]

What I proposed few posts above, is a PoW asset build on top of NXT.

This is possible (and what James is working on) but securing the Nxt network needs to be done in Nxt not in a layer above it.

I disagree. NXT is PoS and this ensures a green infrastructure.

If for some forgers the block fees aren't enough, they should go with the PoW-Coin on top of NXT.

[Jean-Luc]

can someone tell me how to access admin/alias/message/update html pages when using 0.8.1e?  I cant seem to nav to them.  I can forge though

Try port 7876.
http://localhost:7876/

[ChuckOne]

Nxt seems so promising. Looking forward to joining and buying some coins.

So, do it. You could also run a node to secure the network and familiarize yourself with the technology.

[martismartis]

Thank you for update, trying my stick for public node. To be sure, do I need to change something in nxt-default.properties or I can use from previous 0.8.0e?

I added two more properties to the defaults:
nxt.apiServerEnforcePOST=false
nxt.uiServerEnforcePOST=true

So for this reason I get error nxt.uiServerEnforcePOST not defined, assuming false. This is big issue on my node or I need use properties file from 0.8.1e. It's a little bit of work to put parameters in properties with radio mouse pushing buttons on TV

[wesleyh]

can someone tell me how to access admin/alias/message/update html pages when using 0.8.1e?  I cant seem to nav to them.  I can forge though

Try port 7876.
http://localhost:7876/

btw jean luc, sha_worker256.js should be in tools directory (for update checking).

[opticalcarrier]

can someone tell me how to access admin/alias/message/update html pages when using 0.8.1e?  I cant seem to nav to them.  I can forge though

Try port 7876.
http://localhost:7876/

duh.  ok thanks.  now, if we use SSL on API port, will we lost update.html functionality?  I seem to remember that in previous release the update could only work without SSL.

Im going to go ahead and start writing up on wiki the updates for 0.8 train for configs/SSL

[verymuchso]

Can someone please send some (test) Nxt my way?

12790521293207104739

Thank you!

[antanst]

I will be testing more today with 0.8.1e and switching GET to POST before pushing a new version, but it should be up tonight or tomorrow.

Thanks for your work in polishing the official client UI, this really needs to go in as default. Donated 500 NXT.

[Come-from-Beyond]

I've restarted the testnet. We have to wait for the next block to start sending testcoins.

[marek3ball]

Once it will exist portal NXT -> EUR, would it be possible to get some kind of invoice (in EU)? Or will it be my problem to explain it before government will ask me.

This will be important question for all potential eshops too.

[bitcoinpaul]

I will be testing more today with 0.8.1e and switching GET to POST before pushing a new version, but it should be up tonight or tomorrow.

Thanks for your work in polishing the official client UI, this really needs to go in as default. Donated 500 NXT.

Why not integrate wesleys into the 'official' java client? Possible? I think his GUI is better.

[redsn0w]

I've restarted the testnet. We have to wait for the next block to start sending testcoins.

ok .. u are really a good person

[BrianNowhere]

Can you define (in simple terms) the math model and the question about it that you need answered?  I'm a mathematician (Probability/Stochastic processes), but understand little how cryptocurrencies actually work, I have to confess that I understand almost nothing of the tech talk over here...

I will try my best (math is not my strength - logic is).

Basically the way that TF works is that there is a crypto hash for each block which was calculated from the previous' block hash and the "forgers" account.

This hash then determines who's account is the "best" to forge the next block so in a perfect situation if we consider that the max. "weight" of a block is 100 then you would see a blockchain like this:

A(100) B(100) C(100) D(100)

but things aren't perfect as some people won't forge (or pass on their forging right) so the network allows other "less perfect" blocks to be announced and each node will accept the best one that they see to try and keep building on the chain.

A(80) B(90) C(50)

The problem of "forking" is because each node can't see everything in the network (due to latency) so you could also end up with:

A(80) B(95) C(10)

with these "forks" ending up becoming "ignored" because a longer "better" chain has been noticed by the node.

So the problem we are dealing with is that B(95) could "hide" their block and then announce it *after* B(90) which would at least for 1 block make it a "better chain".

But as others will build upon what they see then it won't necessarily *matter* that B(95) was better than B(90) because C(50) is better than C(10) and so B's attempt to "create a fork" will fail.

If though someone has the ability to produce a better B, C, D, E, etc. then they could replace a large number of blocks. This is known in Bitcoin as the >50% attack.

We need to work out the probabilities of all this including how "penalising" a node for "not forging" changes this.

OK, let's try to make the notations more clear. Who are A,B,C,D? Blocks, right (not nodes)? Shall we write "A(80) B'(95) C'(10)" in your example then?

Maybe, define it this way:

- assume for now that we have a static picture (no transactions between accounts), and there are accounts (nodes) 1,...,N with balances M_1,...,M_N on them;

- the time is discrete, and at each moment k each (active) node j calculates its current weight W_k as a (randomized?) function of M_j and B^j_{k-1} (the previous block in the blockchain that the node j thinks to be "official")

- the network then chooses j_0 such that W_{j_0}>W_i for all i not equal to j_0, and lets the node j_0 forge the block B_k; then L_k=W_{j_0} is the weight of this block.

Now, what I don't really understand, is how a node really determines, which branch is "official"? By looking who has the majority among its neighbors in the network?

I'm so glad to see a real math person on the case. I just tipped you 10 Nxt. Please stick around to help sort though all this madness.

[jl777]

It seems to me that forging is important to a healthy nxt network.

But, forging coins is like trying to find a bitcoin block individually. The small guy does not have much of a chance. Therefore he will not do it.

I have seen talk of NXT forging pools.

Would it not be possible to incorporate some of the mining pool code into NXT? Then the NXT network itself would be a mining pool. I am not a programmer and have no idea what would be necessary.

NXT itself is PoS. It is a complete system. We do not need PoW code in it.

What I proposed few posts above, is a PoW asset build on top of NXT.

If a node can prove its service to the network, an associated account could receive a portion of that coin.

I think that this is one way of encouraging people to set-up nodes.

Forging does not need to be changed.

Forging is only for spam prevention.

I will be coming out with "coins" that are actually NXT AE assets that can be mined by CPU. Every miner will need to be running a NXT node. If there is any level of market for such a coin the miners will start mining by the droves. Since the market for it is AE, we can always jump start the market by subsidizing the prices during the early days in order to ensure enough network capacity

I finally got automated gateway deposits working pretty decently, it even handles simultaneous deposits to multiple deposit addresses for a single NXT acct. Making it resume properly after a shutdown was tricky, still might have some cases where a deposit is stuck, but at least there will be a trail of txid's, deposits, etc. I stumbled into a way that I believe gives us atomic exchange of the deposited *coin for NXT AE asset, as long as there are no network failures when issuing the Transfer Asset call to NXT. Dealing with all these error cases might be best done manually as there should be pretty rare and human judgement as to what should be done in <1% of cases is a decent tradeoff.

I also finished coding the withdrawal side, multisig and all, but the testnet is down so I cant test it...

Still need to deal with resuming when there is a pending withdrawal. I have no atomic solution for that, which means I will need to track it somehow. Probably best to recalculate the expected balances based on all the transactions and reconcile any differences on startup. Is there a way to get a list of all the NXT accts with a specific Asset?

I want to get all the basic bugs out and then have it code reviewed for any security issues I am not aware of. I think the gateway_AM's need to have a signature so that Evil Bob can't feed in bogus withdraw addresses. As soon as someone gets me a C fragment that invokes the Java API for this, I can add signing to all the AM's. With all these transaction malleability issues and the complexity of bitcoind transactions, I think it is wise to get the gateway logic really scrutinized.

James

P.S. Let me know what altcoins you would like to have an automated multisig gateway for, I know DOGE doesnt get many of you excited, it was just the cheapest test currency that I had some of.

[ChuckOne]

NXT itself is PoS. It is a complete system. We do not need PoW code in it.

What I proposed few posts above, is a PoW asset build on top of NXT.

If a node can prove its service to the network, an associated account could receive a portion of that coin.

I think that this is one way of encouraging people to set-up nodes.

Forging does not need to be changed.

Forging is only for spam prevention.

Not quite. It's for finding consensus.

I will be coming out with "coins" that are actually NXT AE assets that can be mined by CPU. Every miner will need to be running a NXT node. If there is any level of market for such a coin the miners will start mining by the droves. Since the market for it is AE, we can always jump start the market by subsidizing the prices during the early days in order to ensure enough network capacity

+1

Great.

[jl777]

What I proposed few posts above, is a PoW asset build on top of NXT.

This is possible (and what James is working on) but securing the Nxt network needs to be done in Nxt not in a layer above it.

If a NXTcoin miner has to run a NXT node, arent they "in NXT"?

[verymuchso]

Once it will exist portal NXT -> EUR, would it be possible to get some kind of invoice (in EU)? Or will it be my problem to explain it before government will ask me.

This will be important question for all potential eshops too.

That depends on the gateway company. Reading your post there clearly is demand for a gateway that offers that.

[ChuckOne]

I will be coming out with "coins" that are actually NXT AE assets that can be mined by CPU. Every miner will need to be running a NXT node. If there is any level of market for such a coin the miners will start mining by the droves. Since the market for it is AE, we can always jump start the market by subsidizing the prices during the early days in order to ensure enough network capacity

This is another great service on top of NXT (besides the NXTopia) that stimulates the AE. +1