NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information

[CIYAM]

No. He was talking about other kind of transparency.

The "transparency" is that you can *know* which account can produce the *best* next block (so at least to some extent you can actually "predict" the forgers in advance).

Am also pretty sure that this is *already able to be known* but no "code to check this" has been currently coded.

[Jerical13]

I'm considering locking this thread on page 2100.  What are everyones' thoughts?

I don't want to interrupt communication, but I think we would make more progress if we were better organized.

Poll - https://forums.nxtcrypto.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=839

I don't know. When I first started using forums to find info about NXT I went to the NXTcrypto.org forum. It is more organized but it also by being more organized is more difficult to use and gain info from. The format here takes some getting used to but you have every post on the feed to access info from with out having to go through every topic. Not every post here ahs anything in it for me, some have a little bit of interest to me, others are fully engaging and I can choose to read what I want and it makes it easier to get a feel for what is going on across the whole community.  For instance, I know that when I see something posted by Ciyam, that it is probably over my head; and normally I just skim through his posts or scroll by without reading at all, but there have been posts or bits of his posts that were epiphanal, and brought light to something or made me think about something that I that I wouldn't have even thought to think about if I wouldn't have seen it; I understand that not every post was intended for me, and I am not going to understand every post, or even read every post, but with this format I have easier access to all of the info, and can choose the posts I read, or choose the parts of a post that I read. Maybe if there were a way to embed an indication of the type of post it would help people weed out unwanted posts. Maybe color coding the text? Black for general conversations, Purple for tech/dev posts, red for administrative announcements/posts, pink for Emule, ETC. it would help to save people who are actually pressed for time to use this thread more productively but still let everyone have access to all of the posts and preserve the feel and nature of the thread as a community. I like this thread better.

[swartzfeger]

I'm considering locking this thread on page 2100.  What are everyones' thoughts?

I don't want to interrupt communication, but I think we would make more progress if we were better organized.

Poll - https://forums.nxtcrypto.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=839

I don't know. When I first started using forums to find info about NXT I went to the NXTcrypto.org forum. It is more organized but it also by being more organized is more difficult to use and gain info from. The format here takes some getting used to but you have every post on the feed to access info from with out having to go through every topic. Not every post here ahs anything in it for me, some have a little bit of interest to me, others are fully engaging and I can choose to read what I want and it makes it easier to get a feel for what is going on across the whole community.  For instance, I know that when I see something posted by Ciyam, that it is probably over my head; and normally I just skim through his posts or scroll by without reading at all, but there have been posts or bits of his posts that were epiphanal, and brought light to something or made me think about something that I that I wouldn't have even thought to think about if I wouldn't have seen it; I understand that not every post was intended for me, and I am not going to understand every post, or even read every post, but with this format I have easier access to all of the info, and can choose the posts I read, or choose the parts of a post that I read. Maybe if there were a way to embed an indication of the type of post it would help people weed out unwanted posts. Maybe color coding the text? Black for general conversations, Purple for tech/dev posts, red for administrative announcements/posts, pink for Emule, ETC. it would help to save people who are actually pressed for time to use this thread more productively but still let everyone have access to all of the posts and preserve the feel and nature of the thread as a community. I like this thread better.

This is just my style, but I loathe going into a forum where there's an insane amount of granularity with everything splintered and organized into dozens of sub-fora. I don't feel like clicking about to get relevant info. Old dog, new tricks -- this style goes back to usenet, BBS, etc. Everything got dumped into massive threads.

Personally, I get the feel for what gets read (the vast majority) and what doesn't. Like you said, CIYAM's stuff goes right over my head but I read it anyway.

I hate to bang the decentralized drum, but having everything dumped in one thread *works*, and does for a lot of folks here. I think the problem is that it doesn't for a lot of people, and that's ok, too... the issue is they want (need) CfB, JL, CIYAM, James et al to participate in the more organized forum. Most people don't want to post and participate in two places.

Getting people to break habits is like herding cats.

[Jerical13]

James,

I have a few more questions about your gateway, if you have time to answer. I am starting to realize what the capabilities of this gateway are. This understanding raised the question: If someone will be able to send an external asset to the gateway and it is then represented by an internal asset that can be traded on the AE, what happens to the external asset? Is it held in a collective wallet, like an escrow account or security account? Or is the external asset even transferred at all and the AE generated internal asset is just a promise to pay, and the holder of the External asset would still have to be trusted to deliver the asset once traded?  I know you are busy, and hate to keep bugging you, I just was pondering the implications of this.

I am doing a nearly atomic exchange of the actual crypto with NXT asset. The only glitch could be during an internal transfer, the NXT asset issuance fails for some reason. I havent had a chance to implement full error handling, it is only 10 days old, but when all the error cases are handled, all the confirmed crypto deposits will match up to confirmed NXT asset transfers.

The actual crypto is put into a multisig account. That is why it took me so long to get the alpha release. I had to tediously construct rawtransactions based on looking at all of the unspent outputs, which I had to recreate since bitcoind (at least dogecoind) didnt seem to properly track multisig transactions.

The AE asset therefore represents not just a promise to pay, but there will be a publicly visible multisig acct with the funds there. There will be a gatewaychain.info analogous to blockchain.info where you can verify deposits and withdrawals and their intermediate state.

To add more weight to the promise to redeem the asset for the crypto, multiple (3) gateways are simultaneously monitoring the NXT blockchain for asset transfers back that are coming in for redemption. All gateways query their local bitcoind and generate a proposed rawtransaction and a signed rawtransaction. Every single byte of the raw transaction must be identical between all of the gateways, then the selected gateway signs the already signed rawtransaction from one of the other gateways and submits it to the network.

I will be creating NODEcoin 2.0, which in addition to rewarding people for forging, will be actively validating all gateway transactions and will generate alerts if it ever detects any funny business. As long as the gateway monitors are happy, all is well. I dont expect more than an occasional yellow alert, when there is a network glitch and a transaction has to be manually resent. With the malleability issue, we need to be careful about blindly trusting any request for manual payment.

As long as the NXT community operated gateways continue to function and two of the independent gateway operators dont collude, all the withdrawals are assured. In case the deposit balance in the multisig accounts get too big, we can always fragment them and have dozens of multisig accts, each with a small fraction of the overall balance. Minimize the size of the acct to remove temptation to steal it, and require cooperation of another party to pull of the withdrawal.

I would think that most people would assess the security of this setup as much more secure than trusting some centralized exchange from going rogue or being hacked (c-cex for 300 BTC, poloniex for 150 BTC both this past week) or going belly up (Mtgox, etc).

Properly implemented after thorough testing and review, there would be no practical difference between trading a NXT AE crypto asset or the real thing. We will get the automated gateway so reliable that we will be able to offer NDIC (NXT deposit insurance), max 10000 NXT per person 100000 NXT total. So if the gateway ever causes a loss, there will be the insurance to cover some of the losses.

James

P.S. Can some marketing types take all this and make it nice and presentable?

Hi jl777,

This marketing type would be honoured to take all of this and make it nice and presentable.  I will send it to salsacz for review this weekend before it goes back to the forums or out to the media.

Sincerely,  Brian Snyder aka NxtMinnow

I would help out with marketing too if I could help. Would love to.

And regarding the actual functioning of the gateway, if there is a holding account for these external assets, I was thinking: if it were possible to create a wallet client or modify the current wallet client to allow for holding and sending and receiving AE internal assets (both user created and the ones created by your gateway) it would be possible to kind of hijack the external assets and keep them in our network. I don't know if it would be possible, but if you would have time to download and check out the alt coin "bitgem" client to see an example of what I mean. basically this client allows for holding and sending and receiving multiple versions of coins with multiple values. I know that there is a lot you have going on, and that there is a lot going on with working out the basic functionality of NXT, but this might be something that could be implemented in the future, that would really strengthen our network. If people could spend there own self generated assets and spend NXTDoge on our network....

[Uniqueorn]

I'm considering locking this thread on page 2100.  What are everyones' thoughts?

I think this thread is historic and all, but I do think it's time we get A LOT more organized. Take 1 day off and you'll come back to 40+ pages of all kinds of topics. It's a mess.
It's very easy to miss out on "official decisions" and lose track of development of NXT in general.

I don't see why anyone would want to rather use this thread than a forum.

[Eadeqa]

I'm considering locking this thread on page 2100.  What are everyones' thoughts?

I think this thread is historic and all, but I do think it's time we get A LOT more organized. Take 1 day off and you'll come back to 40+ pages of all kinds of topics. It's a mess.
It's very easy to miss out on "official decisions" and lose track of development of NXT in general.

I don't see why anyone would want to rather use this thread than a forum.

No one is forcing anyone to use  this thread.

Don't LOCK THIS THREAD

That will be dumbest thing. People will not magically move to other forums just because this thread is locked. They will just spend times in other coins threads

[Jerical13]

No. He was talking about other kind of transparency.

The "transparency" is that you can *know* which account can produce the *best* next block (so at least to some extent you can actually "predict" the forgers in advance).

Am also pretty sure that this is *already able to be known* but no "code to check this" has been currently coded.

I was reading your posts about the fact that running 2 computers with the same account open as being a way to attack the network. I have been playing around with the AE and while doing so, I had my real NXT client running, plus I had opened my test network client. This raised the question: what happens if 1 computer is running 2 different real accounts simultaneously? would this be like adding an actual usable client to the network and help strengthen the network or would this be bad?

[redsn0w]

Don't lock this thread  

[antanst]

I'm considering locking this thread on page 2100.  What are everyones' thoughts?

I don't want to interrupt communication, but I think we would make more progress if we were better organized.

This colossal thread is unwieldy, I agree. But before closing it, you should create threads for every large topic (voting/AE gateway/forging) discussed here, so people know where to go to.

[antanst]

That will be dumbest thing. People will not magically move to other forums just because this thread is locked. They will just spend times in other coins threads

How about creating topic-specific threads in this forum? Wouldn't it be better?

[wesleyh]

New version of my Nxt client online at http://nxtra.org/nxt-client/

I will provide a downloadable version over the weekend that can be tested via localhost as well.

Lots of new enhancements.

- Everything updates automatically now, including the asset exchange. When a new block ccomes in the AE is refreshed to see if there are new bid or ask orders.
- Assets can be grouped, just right click on the asset column, and choose add to group (see screenshot below).
- Inclusion of "tentative" messages all over. These are shown until the transaction is confirmed.
- Contacts added. You can send to contacts as well.
- User info, just click on a user ID and you get to see transactions / aliases and assets owned.
- More stuff that I forgot.

Below are some screenshots, if you like this, please consider donating to 8189784314684138350  - thank you!

Error. You have typed an incorrect password or your account is too new.

Why i can not forge? i have my account severeal days active

Your testnxt account? Do not in
put your real password.

it is forging
it was because I had no funds

Ah ok, I'll adjust the message accordingly. thx!

[jl777]

I would help out with marketing too if I could help. Would love to.

And regarding the actual functioning of the gateway, if there is a holding account for these external assets, I was thinking: if it were possible to create a wallet client or modify the current wallet client to allow for holding and sending and receiving AE internal assets (both user created and the ones created by your gateway) it would be possible to kind of hijack the external assets and keep them in our network. I don't know if it would be possible, but if you would have time to download and check out the alt coin "bitgem" client to see an example of what I mean. basically this client allows for holding and sending and receiving multiple versions of coins with multiple values. I know that there is a lot you have going on, and that there is a lot going on with working out the basic functionality of NXT, but this might be something that could be implemented in the future, that would really strengthen our network. If people could spend there own self generated assets and spend NXTDoge on our network....

More people helping is always good!

Not sure exactly what you mean, but the NXT AE "My Assets" is basically a wallet for all types of NXT assets including the ones that represent other crypto. If you mean directly sending DOGE to a different address, that would be possible, but I think opens up a security issue as there is no protection when using transfer asset.

Changing the withdraw address is currently only allowed by an AM with the NXT acct in the "sender" field, which I am pretty sure cannot be changed without invalidating the block.

James

[wesleyh]

New version of my Nxt client online at http://nxtra.org/nxt-client/

Hero.

And it is also workin on mobile, although not looking too good, yet.

Very nice job!! I would love to send some Nxt, but I am on mobile. I could send btc via blockchain, or fiat via paypal. There is a lon way to go for Nxt, but it looks promising!

I haven't focused on mobile yet, first priority is desktop. Afterwards it will be optimized for mobile also My btc address is: 1LZ2JeWodqbAh1e8CRGQNZwtQ1LnnM2Jj5 in case you can't send NXT. Thanks a ton

[bitcoinpaul]

This colossal thread is unwieldy, I agree. But before closing it, you should create threads for every large topic (voting/AE gateway/forging) discussed here, so people know where to go to.

All the topics we are discussing here are interweaved. To split them in separate topics is counter productive.

[Jerical13]

I'm considering locking this thread on page 2100.  What are everyones' thoughts?

I think this thread is historic and all, but I do think it's time we get A LOT more organized. Take 1 day off and you'll come back to 40+ pages of all kinds of topics. It's a mess.
It's very easy to miss out on "official decisions" and lose track of development of NXT in general.

I don't see why anyone would want to rather use this thread than a forum.

No one is forcing anyone to use  this thread.

Don't LOCK THIS THREAD

That will be dumbest thing. People will not magically move to other forums just because this thread is locked. They will just spend times in other coins threads

Just change the text color of dev/tech posts to something that would be easy to recognize. If you miss some time and come back to 15 new pages you would be able to skim through and read only your colored posts more easily and skip the chatter and this thread lives on. It would be easier for the developers to get in the habit of changing post color than to change everyones habits. just a thought.

[wesleyh]

New version of my Nxt client online at http://nxtra.org/nxt-client/

Not sure if it's a client bug or AE bug.  I placed an Asset sell order, cancelled the order, Asset returned to my account, then went to place another sell order for same Asset and it says "Not enough funds or incorrect password"

I assume that is an AE bug, I have had those insufficient funds messages in all clients.

[jl777]

This colossal thread is unwieldy, I agree. But before closing it, you should create threads for every large topic (voting/AE gateway/forging) discussed here, so people know where to go to.

All the topics we are discussing here are interweaved. To split them in separate topics is counter productive.

I agree. It will make it a lot more work for generalists who like to follow all the different things. Speciality subthreads get 1% the activity.

[Isildur23]

That will be dumbest thing. People will not magically move to other forums just because this thread is locked. They will just spend times in other coins threads

How about creating topic-specific threads in this forum? Wouldn't it be better?

We have:
[ANN] Anon136's Silver Bullion NXT Gateway

Nxt :: NXTcash - progress and discussion  

Nxt full feature clients - progress tracking thread  

Nxt marketing & promotion :: Infographics and Articles Bounties

Nxt web service providers - progress tracking thread

Nxt source code flaw reports

[bitcoinpaul]

I agree. It will make it a lot more work for generalists who like to follow all the different things. Speciality subthreads get 1% the activity.

It is not only more work. We maybe miss great ideas or interdependence problems if we don't have this big central thread.

If we split into different topics we adapt idea-creating methods of Microsoft and General Motors. But we should be Apple.

[salsacz]

Visit also: Nxt full feature clients, Nxt web service providers, Nxt security and user interface, Nxt open source code flaw report