NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information

[Damelon]

Leave the thread as it is, please

Organising things isn't always the best thing to do. It can dilute the focus and frequently does.

I like to scroll through the thread and pick up diverse topics and sometimes they "click" together into something unexpected.
That wouldn't happen if things were in separate topics.

Also: people áre already making separate topics. Sometimes here, sometimes on the other forums.

And people are also doing loads off-thread in PM and Skype, Google Docs and IRC.

Loads of things aren't discussed here that get done in a quick PM and then results get posted here. We're not bound by this thread as it is!
as-needed" basis is much more fun. I think I follow about 15 threads both on this forum and others and also have docs and IRC open.

It may be like herding cats, but i líke cats! Also, we can herd ourselves

[abuelau]

On the thread topic, this is how I see it: If you want to discuss a topic that will drag for months and won't be discussed every day, then start a new thread somewhere and post the link here when necessary.

This thread is useful the way it is as a general place for short-lived discussions in different topics, announcements, questions, etc. Please don't close it.

[jl777]

DOGE gateway --

I sent 1.105 DOGE from my wallet to the gateway (precisely, I sent 1.10530904). Confirmations completed, so I checked my assets, and I received 1 DOGE and 105 milliDOGE. Very cool!

Minor question -- what happened to the remaining .00030904 DOGE? Were they 'rounded off' into the gateway's ether? Are they still somewhere but not shown due to lack of precision?

My wallet at dogevault does indeed show that -1.10530904 was sent, so I don't think they're rounding off anything...

This is why I rounded to .001, any fraction is a donation to gateway

The dust (or more like clods of dirt) is indeed in the gateway acct, I just have no way of crediting your NXT account without making microDOGE and nanoDOGE. Remember, there is no database, so I am not tracking anything cumulative. This is as stateless as possible to allow for clean consistent recovery from blockchain, plus I rarely do traditional databases

James

[rickyjames]

NXT FUNDING COMMITTEE VOTE IS NOW UNDERWAY UNTIL 12:01 AM MARCH 8 (UTC)

Nice execution rickyjames! Thanks for taking the time to organize this in such a professional way.

Hey, thank you.  This is important.

So far I have sent out 64 ballot access codes and I have had requests for 16 more who I don't recognize but that I am going to examine for their association with NXT via their posting history.  So if you're in that group, be patient, I'll get to you.  This is just more tedious than I thought and I need a break.

There's a lot of voting websites out there that are pretty crappy once you get into them and try to set something up.  Electionbuddy was actually the third one I tried.  I bought 500 ballot codes.  We stop the election at 500 votes (if we get that many).

I am gonna try to get these codes out to as many people as possible.  I have some ideas, but right now I need some caffeine and a shower.

LIVE ONGOING VOTE RESULTS:

https://www.electionbuddy.com/elections/12343/results/t34ayqhm2

If you  want to vote, send me a PM with just the word VOTE in the title.  I will respond with your password and the voting site URL.  I will know who voted but I will not know who you voted for.

[redsn0w]

On the thread topic, this is how I see it: If you want to discuss a topic that will drag for months and won't be discussed every day, then start a new thread somewhere and post the link here when necessary.

This thread is useful the way it is as a general place for short-lived discussions in different topics, announcements, questions, etc. Please don't close it.

+1440

[Isildur23]

Why do we need a domain?  asktom.cf is enough.

[Jerical13]

James,

I have a few more questions about your gateway, if you have time to answer. I am starting to realize what the capabilities of this gateway are. This understanding raised the question: If someone will be able to send an external asset to the gateway and it is then represented by an internal asset that can be traded on the AE, what happens to the external asset? Is it held in a collective wallet, like an escrow account or security account? Or is the external asset even transferred at all and the AE generated internal asset is just a promise to pay, and the holder of the External asset would still have to be trusted to deliver the asset once traded?  I know you are busy, and hate to keep bugging you, I just was pondering the implications of this.

I am doing a nearly atomic exchange of the actual crypto with NXT asset. The only glitch could be during an internal transfer, the NXT asset issuance fails for some reason. I havent had a chance to implement full error handling, it is only 10 days old, but when all the error cases are handled, all the confirmed crypto deposits will match up to confirmed NXT asset transfers.

The actual crypto is put into a multisig account. That is why it took me so long to get the alpha release. I had to tediously construct rawtransactions based on looking at all of the unspent outputs, which I had to recreate since bitcoind (at least dogecoind) didnt seem to properly track multisig transactions.

The AE asset therefore represents not just a promise to pay, but there will be a publicly visible multisig acct with the funds there. There will be a gatewaychain.info analogous to blockchain.info where you can verify deposits and withdrawals and their intermediate state.

To add more weight to the promise to redeem the asset for the crypto, multiple (3) gateways are simultaneously monitoring the NXT blockchain for asset transfers back that are coming in for redemption. All gateways query their local bitcoind and generate a proposed rawtransaction and a signed rawtransaction. Every single byte of the raw transaction must be identical between all of the gateways, then the selected gateway signs the already signed rawtransaction from one of the other gateways and submits it to the network.

I will be creating NODEcoin 2.0, which in addition to rewarding people for forging, will be actively validating all gateway transactions and will generate alerts if it ever detects any funny business. As long as the gateway monitors are happy, all is well. I dont expect more than an occasional yellow alert, when there is a network glitch and a transaction has to be manually resent. With the malleability issue, we need to be careful about blindly trusting any request for manual payment.

As long as the NXT community operated gateways continue to function and two of the independent gateway operators dont collude, all the withdrawals are assured. In case the deposit balance in the multisig accounts get too big, we can always fragment them and have dozens of multisig accts, each with a small fraction of the overall balance. Minimize the size of the acct to remove temptation to steal it, and require cooperation of another party to pull of the withdrawal.

I would think that most people would assess the security of this setup as much more secure than trusting some centralized exchange from going rogue or being hacked (c-cex for 300 BTC, poloniex for 150 BTC both this past week) or going belly up (Mtgox, etc).

Properly implemented after thorough testing and review, there would be no practical difference between trading a NXT AE crypto asset or the real thing. We will get the automated gateway so reliable that we will be able to offer NDIC (NXT deposit insurance), max 10000 NXT per person 100000 NXT total. So if the gateway ever causes a loss, there will be the insurance to cover some of the losses.

James

P.S. Can some marketing types take all this and make it nice and presentable?

Hi jl777,

This marketing type would be honoured to take all of this and make it nice and presentable.  I will send it to salsacz for review this weekend before it goes back to the forums or out to the media.

Sincerely,  Brian Snyder aka NxtMinnow

Minnow, if you need any help with this let me know. If you are planning to use target specific marketing it may help to have a few people working on this to break up the work load. Or if you are going to use a generic approach and need some help... either way I can help if you need it.

[swartzfeger]

DOGE gateway --

I sent 1.105 DOGE from my wallet to the gateway (precisely, I sent 1.10530904). Confirmations completed, so I checked my assets, and I received 1 DOGE and 105 milliDOGE. Very cool!

Minor question -- what happened to the remaining .00030904 DOGE? Were they 'rounded off' into the gateway's ether? Are they still somewhere but not shown due to lack of precision?

My wallet at dogevault does indeed show that -1.10530904 was sent, so I don't think they're rounding off anything...

This is why I rounded to .001, any fraction is a donation to gateway

The dust (or more like clods of dirt) is indeed in the gateway acct, I just have no way of crediting your NXT account without making microDOGE and nanoDOGE. Remember, there is no database, so I am not tracking anything cumulative. This is as stateless as possible to allow for clean consistent recovery from blockchain, plus I rarely do traditional databases

James

Perfect, makes sense.

It works, and works well. Not to sound hyperbolic, but I got a rush using it, like I did as a kid when I tinkered with my friend's VIC-20. If the crypto community doesn't dig this, they don't have a pulse.

[Mario123]

NXT FUNDING COMMITTEE VOTE IS NOW UNDERWAY UNTIL 12:15 AM MARCH 8 (UTC)

Here is a badge. Should be sufficient for winning!

[Emule]

NXT FUNDING COMMITTEE VOTE IS NOW UNDERWAY UNTIL 12:01 AM MARCH 8 (UTC)

Nice execution rickyjames! Thanks for taking the time to organize this in such a professional way.

Hey, thank you.  This is important.

So far I have sent out 64 ballot access codes and I have had requests for 16 more who I don't recognize but that I am going to examine for their association with NXT via their posting history.  So if you're in that group, be patient, I'll get to you.  This is just more tedious than I thought and I need a break.

There's a lot of voting websites out there that are pretty crappy once you get into them and try to set something up.  Electionbuddy was actually the third one I tried.  I bought 500 ballot codes.  We stop the election at 500 votes (if we get that many).

I am gonna try to get these codes out to as many people as possible.  I have some ideas, but right now I need some caffeine and a shower.

LIVE ONGOING VOTE RESULTS:

https://www.electionbuddy.com/elections/12343/results/t34ayqhm2

If you  want to vote, send me a PM with just the word VOTE in the title.  I will respond with your password and the voting site URL.  I will know who voted but I will not know who you voted for.

oh i see people can vote based on YOUR selection. vote is tricked.

i see people voting for salsa dude, you all deserve to get ripped off once again by him! crazy world, maybe i should have bin candidate

[rickyjames]

NXT FUNDING COMMITTEE VOTE IS NOW UNDERWAY UNTIL 12:01 AM MARCH 8 (UTC)

Nice execution rickyjames! Thanks for taking the time to organize this in such a professional way.

LIVE ONGOING VOTE RESULTS:

https://www.electionbuddy.com/elections/12343/results/t34ayqhm2

If you  want to vote, send me a PM with just the word VOTE in the title.  I will respond with your password and the voting site URL.  I will know who voted but I will not know who you voted for.

oh i see people can vote based on YOUR selection. vote is tricked.

i see people voting for salsa dude, you all deserve to get ripped off once again by him! crazy world, maybe i should have bin candidate

Folks, I sent Emule a ballot password.  Enjoy the right to vote, Emule.

[xyzzyx]

I'm considering locking this thread on page 2100.  What are everyones' thoughts?

I don't want to interrupt communication, but I think we would make more progress if we were better organized.

Poll - https://forums.nxtcrypto.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=839

...
Please dont kill this thread. Its cool. Its history.
...

He may have no choice:
https://asktom.cf/index.php?topic=438043.0

[Uniqueorn]

NXT FUNDING COMMITTEE VOTE IS NOW UNDERWAY UNTIL 12:01 AM MARCH 8 (UTC)

Nice execution rickyjames! Thanks for taking the time to organize this in such a professional way.

LIVE ONGOING VOTE RESULTS:

https://www.electionbuddy.com/elections/12343/results/t34ayqhm2

If you  want to vote, send me a PM with just the word VOTE in the title.  I will respond with your password and the voting site URL.  I will know who voted but I will not know who you voted for.

oh i see people can vote based on YOUR selection. vote is tricked.

i see people voting for salsa dude, you all deserve to get ripped off once again by him! crazy world, maybe i should have bin candidate

Folks, I sent Emule a ballot password.  Enjoy the right to vote, Emule.

You are doing great work Ricky. Really professional and thorough.

[Zahlen]

ON BEHALF OF CIYAM (China firewall-censorship issues):

a) using a good password create a SHA256 of it
b) publish a hash that is the hash from a hashed “x” times
c) lock your account then after that is confirmed send a tx from your account to another (won’t be able to actually transfer any funds even after confirmed)
d) send a tx that provides the “x-1” hash (i.e. if you hash that you get the hash that was sent in b)
result is that tx from c can now *occur* and also the locking hash has now been changed

lol wut

I think Ian was describing this from the AT thread: https://asktom.cf/index.php?topic=463731.120

In the convo that followed from that, we discussed variants and some implications (but ignore my post where I got Fry's idea completely in reverse  )

Someone was talking about protection against quantum computing (I lost the post). As I understand (and not very well, please correct me if I'm wrong): Basically QC can quickly solve some math problems like integer factorization and discrete logarithms, which are not believed to have anywhere near quick solutions via classical computing methods. Trouble is the difficulty of these math problems are the basis of many "smart" mathy crypto algos like Curve25519 and ECKDSA, which Nxt uses. But QC doesn't help with "dumb" crypto algos like SHA256 (which is just a controlled mess of basic bitwise operations), and since Nxt also uses SHA256, QC alone cannot break Nxt accounts and/or fake signatures.

Edit: Thanks for the fix atanst, BBCode not agreeing with me tonight.

[Zahlen]

I'm considering locking this thread on page 2100.  What are everyones' thoughts?

I don't want to interrupt communication, but I think we would make more progress if we were better organized.

Poll - https://forums.nxtcrypto.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=839

...
Please dont kill this thread. Its cool. Its history.
...

He may have no choice:
https://asktom.cf/index.php?topic=438043.0

The Doom of Theymos

I don't want this thread to die, I'd prefer it live on as a pub that's always having happy hour. But I'd like the ideas to sprout and grow elsewhere (like in the thread 2Kool started on nxtcrypto, in a non-headache-inducing manner.

[Damelon]

NXT FUNDING COMMITTEE VOTE IS NOW UNDERWAY UNTIL 12:15 AM MARCH 8 (UTC)

Here is a badge. Should be sufficient for winning!

I'm sold!

[Zahlen]

Vote for Mario

1up

[antanst]

I think Ian was describing this from the AT thread:  DO NOT POST SESC LINKS

In the convo that followed from that, we discussed variants and some implications (but ignore my post where I got Fry's idea completely in reverse  )

Someone was talking about protection against quantum computing (I lost the post). As I understand (and not very well, please correct me if I'm wrong): Basically QC can quickly solve some math problems like integer factorization and discrete logarithms, which are not believed to have anywhere near quick solutions via classical computing methods. Trouble is the difficulty of these math problems are the basis of many "smart" mathy crypto algos like Curve25519 and ECKDSA, which Nxt uses. But QC doesn't help with "dumb" crypto algos like SHA256 (which is just a controlled mess of basic bitwise operations), and since Nxt also uses SHA256, QC alone cannot break Nxt accounts and/or fake signatures.

Fixed it for you: https://asktom.cf/index.php?topic=463731.120

[gs02xzz]

I'm considering locking this thread on page 2100.  What are everyones' thoughts?

I don't want to interrupt communication, but I think we would make more progress if we were better organized.

Poll - https://forums.nxtcrypto.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=839

We should be very careful about this decision. We have built a good reputation and a significant thread at bitcointalk. It has been our most effective advertisement and marketing and ideal exchange tool and platform. We need to thouroughly think what we will lose if we close it now. We don't want lose visitors and communication and new blood by moving it to other place. Once the committees are formed, each committee will have a thread in the new place and gradually we will have a other way to organize projects. But the main thread in BTT should stay for as long as it can. Let it grow naturally.

[MintPal-Jay]

Hi Guys,

Just an update on the NXT market at MintPal. We really regret to say that we won't be able to add it. While our scripts were largely working, we simply didn't have the confidence or understanding required for it, in comparison to Bitcoin and other altcoins, especially when it comes to handling trading.

We will be refunding all voting payments in 48 hours automatically, though you can contact us if you require an alternative arrangement.

Full announcement here - https://support.mintpal.com/index.php?module=announce&sec=view&id=7