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Author Topic: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information  (Read 2761756 times)
jl777
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March 05, 2014, 03:34:22 PM
 #40381

Instead of pooled forging, can you port over multisig? That is much more important than pooled forging, since there are alternate solutions for that. Multisig is pretty fundamental.

Why do we need 2 ways to do a multisig?
Redundancy and time to market.

I dont like using AT for multisig because that will cost extra to execute the AT. it also has more moving parts and maybe even a delay for a block waiting for AT. There is room for a simpler built in multisig and a flexible AT based supersig

If the code is there, might as well use it

James

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oldnbold
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March 05, 2014, 03:34:42 PM
 #40382

@jl777

i was thinking.. could you set up a gateway for krona and for auroracoin for when auroracoin is airdropped.. giving the people of iceland a decentralised way of trading auroracoin.. as far as i know they wont be able to sell it for USD and trade into krona due to the currency laws.. it would be big publicity for nxt.. and at worst you get 330,000 people who find out what nxt is even if they do just cash out and AUR collapses! it could go a very long way to helping the whole project work...!
As long as it is a bitcoind fork, I estimate a new coin can be added faster than you can download the blockchain. Well, maybe for a brand new coin it will be a close race. Just one file needs to be changed with the gateways addresses and public keys and a few other coin specific details.

Then of course, it has to be tested. Maybe somebody can keep a list of all the coins we should support? I cant do this all by myself.
Can somebody be the project manager? There are many parts of this, but you dont need to be technical, just organized and a little management experience. I know a lot of you are lurking and intimidated by the tech talk, but this is a task of keeping track of the things that need to be done and communicating. The more of this I can offload, the more time I will have for coding. Just saying.

James

As one of those lurkers I'd welcome the chance to contribute; so if you're still looking for someone to be project manager, I'd be very happy to get involved. I read the thread several times a day and have got the time. My communication skills and management experience should be ok, but I may have to ask some initial, elementary technical questions in order to fully understand what's required.

Fantastic. If you have been reading the thread, you know what needs to be done. Just jump in and start making things happen Smiley

I would be happy to answer any questions. The post with the blue headline had a good summary.

James


Apologies for the delay in responding.

I've reread your Plan for automated multisig gateway post  - relevant extract below:



Quote

...I need three independent and trustworthy server operators to install and run the gateway. You will have to promise not to release source code until approved to do so. The biggest task will probably be installing a couple dozen bitcoind forks.

I need web html person to make web interface for gateway. There is no need for people to have to compile a program just to get deposit address or change withdrawal address. Everyone is used to doing that from webpage. It does have to do local signing as we have to send AM to make gateway requests.

I also need somebody to write code for the equivalent of blockchain explorer, basically gateway transaction explorer. Correlating transactions, tracking balances, etc. [I could do this, but it is better if there are more people familiar with what the gateway is doing with AM]

I also would like to have somebody refactor the code. It is ~2500 lines of C code that uses no libraries other than curl. Everything else is custom code, it was just faster for me to write it from scratch than mess around with unfamiliar libraries.  I am sure my code can be improved.

Probably the most important, I need to hire Evil Bob. At least somebody who will do all sorts of Evil Bobness to the gateway.

After we are done with this project, NXT AE will have direct links to dozens of crypto wallets. All these cryptos will trade against NXT, making NXT the standard that the other coins are valued. We need to make sure the gateway code is secure before putting it into production. I will be setting aside 100000 NXT for a NDIC (nxt deposit insurance) fund, 10000 NXT per person and 100K max, for any gateway caused losses.

Please help us put some distance between us and the clones! Volunteers are most welcomed, but if you need some NXT to motivate you to participate, PM me and I will see what I can work out.

James
https://asktom.cf/index.php?topic=345619.msg5434195#msg5434195



And I've been following and trying to understand this thread (itself almost a full time job for a non techie like myself) but I don't know:

* whether the project management you envisage includes the areas of work listed in your Plan for automated multisig gateway post or just keeping track of the things that need to be done and communicating re the coins to be supported and coin testing of the gateway


Or

* apart from asking the questions below, how otherwise to 'start making things happen'


Would it be helpful to start a technical thread at http://www.nxtcoins.nl/bitcointalk-threads/  for people to post their results/comments re the
stress testing (hope that's an accurate description) of the gateway using dogecoin (or, more accurately (?), the dogeind gateway) and subsequent coins?

Presumably the gateway will need to be tested each time a new coin is supported – correct?

What's the criterion/criteria for inclusion of a coin on the gateway?

You've said:

Quote
'The ONLY function of the gateway is to accept deposit and process withdrawal of an asset. I am only dealing with crypto gateways here, more specifically cryptos with multisig support like BTC.'
https://asktom.cf/index.php?topic=345619.34740 

and, more recently:


Quote
….a non-profit gateway for all the popular cryptos into NXT AE....



Other than the current stress testing of the the dogeind gateway which other of the areas of work listed in your Plan for automated multisig gateway post have been started and by whom?

I've seen nothing in the thread re this since the following posts were made:

Quote
February 28, 2014, 09:50:05 PM

Quote from: msin on February 28, 2014, 09:43:03 PM
Quote from: jl777 on February 28, 2014, 09:24:33 PM
Quote from: msin on February 28, 2014, 09:16:20 PM


@msin
You are organizational type, yes? Maybe you could manage automated gateway project? I want to add NXTcash to gateway instead of coordinating all the stuff from my post above.

James

Sure, I can help manage if you need me to.  In regards to server operators, what do you think about three separate hosted servers that one person can admin until code is released, assuming we will be on testnet.  Perhaps abctc.  Here is my suggestions for others:

I need web html person to make web interface for gateway - Wesleyh

I also need somebody to write code for the equivalent of blockchain explorer, basically gateway transaction explorer. - Nexern

I also would like to have somebody refactor the code. - Zahlen

Probably the most important, I need to hire Evil Bob.  - Jesse James or CIYAM

Opticalc, would you be interested in running one of the three DAC gateways? 
https://asktom.cf/index.php?topic=345619.40500


And


Quote
February 28, 2014, 10:26:45 PM

Quote from: opticalcarrier on February 28, 2014, 10:02:05 PM
Quote from: msin on February 28, 2014, 09:50:05 PM
Opticalc, would you be interested in running one of the three DAC gateways? 

I can *probably* manage one..  may have to ask lots of questions though...

Great, if anyone else in interested in the DAC projects listed by James, please post.

https://asktom.cf/index.php?topic=345619.40500



I'm not sure my low level of understanding will enable me to do justice to what the project management involves.

However I'd still happy to contribute what I could, provided I was confident my contribution was going to be effective and not waste other people's time.

Apologies for the length of this post.
jl777
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March 05, 2014, 03:37:50 PM
 #40383

<impressive wall of txt!>
I've PM'ed you

James

http://www.digitalcatallaxy.com/report2015.html
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Fatih87SK
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March 05, 2014, 03:43:53 PM
 #40384



Any updates on AE, what are we waiting for? can we set a date?


I am currently writing an AE audit program. It will make sure all asset balances are correct. I think we need to have this running while we have several active tradebots making all sorts of trades, big and small, from many computers.

If after a million trade brute force test, everything still reconciles, then it should be good to go

James

please tell me its not going to be luanched till after the 8th?Huh? i want to get my investment back from heavycoin to put into nxt! please wait lol

Which clients will support AE?

It's important that we show those clients at nxtcountdown.com

pinarello
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March 05, 2014, 03:45:48 PM
 #40385



Any updates on AE, what are we waiting for? can we set a date?


I am currently writing an AE audit program. It will make sure all asset balances are correct. I think we need to have this running while we have several active tradebots making all sorts of trades, big and small, from many computers.

If after a million trade brute force test, everything still reconciles, then it should be good to go

James

please tell me its not going to be luanched till after the 8th?Huh? i want to get my investment back from heavycoin to put into nxt! please wait lol

Which clients will support AE?

It's important that we show those clients at nxtcountdown.com

All clients support AE.

grandpa_seth
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March 05, 2014, 03:45:59 PM
 #40386

More I think about Pooled Forging, more I don't like it. Does anyone have any ideas where this could lead to? Won't we face the same problem as Bitcoin (GHash)?

I put refactoring on hold until the community decides that it's safe for Nxt.


Never liked pooled forging for nxt. If CFB put actual thought into it and doesn't like it then I say no for now at least. I believe there will be

natural incentives to forge as we grow. Worst case we can pool later if the issue becomes clearer.
pinarello
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March 05, 2014, 03:48:04 PM
 #40387


dont miss the NXT train ...

YUB and HODL


sepehr
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March 05, 2014, 03:48:50 PM
 #40388

Hey guys! I'm allwelder's friend.
If you want the price of NXT pumping up,
please go to https://asktom.cf/index.php?topic=501963.0 to vote NXT!!!
Www.btc38.com is the biggest Altcoins exchange in China.
It will be a great news to NXT if the site launch NXT!!!

Please!!!


Vote!

Sepehr, A Cryptocurrency Evangelist
ImmortAlex
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March 05, 2014, 03:49:14 PM
 #40389

I don't think we need pooled forging at all.

1. Pool doesn't change ROI in long run.

2. Comminity has strong opinion that fee must be no more than 0.1, so sooner or later ROI will fall in 10 time at least.

3. So small stakeholders will not get anything notable anyway.

4. So forging is not about money. We talk about that many times.

5. It's better to learn people how to setup node and register it on peerexplorer. And learn whales to support sponsoring in peerexplorer.

6. Forging is duty of service providers, so we just need to stand until there are many of it. We can snand with 500 nodes, I think. Nodes which active part of community will run anyway.

So it's better to program something useful and truly innovative.
Fatih87SK
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March 05, 2014, 03:49:50 PM
 #40390



Any updates on AE, what are we waiting for? can we set a date?


I am currently writing an AE audit program. It will make sure all asset balances are correct. I think we need to have this running while we have several active tradebots making all sorts of trades, big and small, from many computers.

If after a million trade brute force test, everything still reconciles, then it should be good to go

James

please tell me its not going to be luanched till after the 8th?Huh? i want to get my investment back from heavycoin to put into nxt! please wait lol

Which clients will support AE?

It's important that we show those clients at nxtcountdown.com

All clients support AE.

Ok, then we come to the same dilemma.

Is it an idea to promote Wesleyh's client at the countdown?

That is our moment to spam everyone with a simple client and a countdown. There is no better time to do that.

Fatih87SK
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March 05, 2014, 03:52:21 PM
 #40391

Hey guys! I'm allwelder's friend.
If you want the price of NXT pumping up,
please go to https://asktom.cf/index.php?topic=501963.0 to vote NXT!!!
Www.btc38.com is the biggest Altcoins exchange in China.
It will be a great news to NXT if the site launch NXT!!!

Please!!!


Vote!

Expect the question; How are we going to implement NXT at BTC38?

Or have we learned from the past and made an instruction?

mcjavar
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March 05, 2014, 03:52:38 PM
 #40392

More I think about Pooled Forging, more I don't like it. Does anyone have any ideas where this could lead to? Won't we face the same problem as Bitcoin (GHash)?

I put refactoring on hold until the community decides that it's safe for Nxt.


And how should community decide? We will have a big duscission again, while work is on hold.
Please continue working on it, like planned, as this is the only way small stakeholders have the opportunity to forge. It is very frustrating to invest thousands of dollars and then see that you will generate the next block in 2 months.

If you want the community to decide, put up a voting, or make it clear HOW the community should decide, otherwise it is pointless and will only lead to another function not getting implemented till april.

Just for the records: how do you want community to decide?
pinarello
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March 05, 2014, 03:53:58 PM
 #40393



Any updates on AE, what are we waiting for? can we set a date?


I am currently writing an AE audit program. It will make sure all asset balances are correct. I think we need to have this running while we have several active tradebots making all sorts of trades, big and small, from many computers.

If after a million trade brute force test, everything still reconciles, then it should be good to go

James

please tell me its not going to be luanched till after the 8th?Huh? i want to get my investment back from heavycoin to put into nxt! please wait lol

Which clients will support AE?

It's important that we show those clients at nxtcountdown.com

All clients support AE.

Ok, then we come to the same dilemma.

Is it an idea to promote Wesleyh's client at the countdown?

That is our moment to spam everyone with a simple client and a countdown. There is no better time to do that.


I personally consider wesleys client as standard client, when it is implemented in the code from J-L, and with the installer from mistafreeze this is the best we can get.

easy to use one click installation. AFAIK wesleyh and J-L are in the proces of integrating the client as we speak.

so lets put our effort to promote that.

morigu777
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March 05, 2014, 03:54:34 PM
 #40394

Hey guys! I'm allwelder's friend.
If you want the price of NXT pumping up,
please go to https://asktom.cf/index.php?topic=501963.0 to vote NXT!!!
Www.btc38.com is the biggest Altcoins exchange in China.
It will be a great news to NXT if the site launch NXT!!!

Please!!!


Vote!

Expect the question; How are we going to implement NXT at BTC38?

Or have we learned from the past and made an instruction?

Whoever is our Chinese rep for NXT(I believe we have one right?) should work with opticalc or someone along those lines to help btc38 implement it if it comes to that.
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March 05, 2014, 03:54:59 PM
 #40395

BTC38 is asking about which coin to add next on their exchange. Please take a few minutes to let them know about Nxt:

https://asktom.cf/index.php?topic=501963.msg5525645#msg5525645



Done!

done
mcjavar
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March 05, 2014, 03:55:13 PM
 #40396



Any updates on AE, what are we waiting for? can we set a date?


I am currently writing an AE audit program. It will make sure all asset balances are correct. I think we need to have this running while we have several active tradebots making all sorts of trades, big and small, from many computers.

If after a million trade brute force test, everything still reconciles, then it should be good to go

James

please tell me its not going to be luanched till after the 8th?Huh? i want to get my investment back from heavycoin to put into nxt! please wait lol

Which clients will support AE?

It's important that we show those clients at nxtcountdown.com

All clients support AE.

Ok, then we come to the same dilemma.

Is it an idea to promote Wesleyh's client at the countdown?

That is our moment to spam everyone with a simple client and a countdown. There is no better time to do that.


I personally consider wesleys client as standard client, when it is implemented in the code from J-L, and with the installer from mistafreeze this is the best we can get.

easy to use one click installation. AFAIK wesleyh and J-L are in the proces of integrating the client as we speak.

so lets put our effort to promote that.

Yes, that is what I am telling here for hours Smiley
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March 05, 2014, 03:55:18 PM
 #40397

I don't think we need pooled forging at all.

1. Pool doesn't change ROI in long run.

2. Comminity has strong opinion that fee must be no more than 0.1, so sooner or later ROI will fall in 10 time at least.

3. So small stakeholders will not get anything notable anyway.

4. So forging is not about money. We talk about that many times.

5. It's better to learn people how to setup node and register it on peerexplorer. And learn whales to support sponsoring in peerexplorer.

6. Forging is duty of service providers, so we just need to stand until there are many of it. We can snand with 500 nodes, I think. Nodes which active part of community will run anyway.

So it's better to program something useful and truly innovative.

We'll need pooled forging in the future when switch to 1000 tps mode.
Come-from-Beyond
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March 05, 2014, 03:55:52 PM
 #40398

Just for the records: how do you want community to decide?

Voting. We have VS.
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March 05, 2014, 03:56:43 PM
 #40399

BTC38 is asking about which coin to add next on their exchange. Please take a few minutes to let them know about Nxt:

https://asktom.cf/index.php?topic=501963.msg5525645#msg5525645



Done also.
bitcoinpaul
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March 05, 2014, 03:57:26 PM
 #40400

I personally consider wesleys client as standard client, when it is implemented in the code from J-L, and with the installer from mistafreeze this is the best we can get.

easy to use one click installation. AFAIK wesleyh and J-L are in the proces of integrating the client as we speak.

so lets put our effort to promote that.

Yes, that is what I am telling here for hours Smiley

+1 for Wesleys as standard. But this one click installation - is this open source and necessary?
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