Devcoin

[weisoq]

The same dynamic can work in reverse where Bitcoin wealthy wont ever want to go back to fiat and will do everything in their power to grow Bitcoin and bait people into it ...

 ...Let them try. But when the majority of businesses accept Bitcoin it isn't going to work. The reason it wont work is because people today are becoming millionaires from Bitcoin and eventually there will be billionaires. These billionaires will control the cryptocurrency industry, not random newcomers with new coins. I'm saying the early adopters in Bitcoin will be established, organized, and will be the big players in the cryptocurrency industry and the little coins will have a very difficult time changing the landscape. The old guard will have benefited from the deflationary aspects of Bitcoin and you're not going to be able to change the minds of people who became billionaires because they bought thousands or mined tens of thousands of Bitcoins in 2010 or 2011. These people will own hundreds of ASICminer shares and will own stocks in many other companies as well and as the shareholders these individuals may decide they like the deflationary aspect.

What will make matters even worse for you is that people right now are following the same path, buying Bitcoins, learning to appreciate the deflationary aspects of it, and in 2016 these people could be millionaires as well. What will happen is journalists are going to start interviewing more and more Bitcoin millionaires and billionaires and do you think these people who grew up poor or working class and through Bitcoin became rich are going to decide suddenly that Bitcoin has a flawed design? It never happens. And people who get in at 2016 will see what happened for people who got in at 2013, or 2011, or 2010, and they'll choose Bitcoin merely because by choosing Bitcoin they'll be better off.
I don't think anything can stop that trend from happening except making Bitcoin illegal. if Bitcoin is legal and people start becoming millionaires and billionaires overnight, then there can be other more stable coins, coins with better technology, stuff like Ripple with establishment support, but ultimately a billion dollars is cooler than a million. A thousand is cooler than a hundred. A hundred is cooler than ten. Ten is cooler than one.

You haven't addressed any practical element of how a transactional structure would work or grow, and I was going to write a response explaining what I mean by the "shitty side" of bitcoin credit, why deflation isn't good for business and diversifying interests, the nature of likely economic contraction and ruinous social progress (beyond that already written into demographic trends) to which a deflationary currency could pertain...

...until I kept reading and realised you've just done that yourself in genuinely, with zero irony, outlining a bubbly pyramid scheme. No mention of technological progress, a basis in state undermining, bypassing a parasitical financial sector...; just a pyramid with a new bunch of dumb cronies praying for salvation via continued mass ignorance? If you're going to take that view you at least have to concede the necessity of bringing in new blood ("bait people into it" as you put it). So really your whole argument (not necessarily the truth or other people's perspective) for Bitcoin's future and the failure of Devcoin and other alternatives rests on mass stupidity; that everybody else is incapable of coming to the same conclusion that you can reach i.e. that it's all bullshit except marketing and making a few people wealthy, ironically wealthy in fiat or other non-btc assets obviously?

Hilarious. If that's the basis of your efforts and investments I hope for your sake you're one of the very early bitcoin adopters with a significant holding, preferably already sold, because if that's all it is you're going to get mightily stuffed by a rolling reality as the music slows and stops. There's always somebody with bigger pockets but not always another fool.

[owsleybeatsbigcartel]

The same dynamic can work in reverse where Bitcoin wealthy wont ever want to go back to fiat and will do everything in their power to grow Bitcoin and bait people into it ...

 ...Let them try. But when the majority of businesses accept Bitcoin it isn't going to work. The reason it wont work is because people today are becoming millionaires from Bitcoin and eventually there will be billionaires. These billionaires will control the cryptocurrency industry, not random newcomers with new coins. I'm saying the early adopters in Bitcoin will be established, organized, and will be the big players in the cryptocurrency industry and the little coins will have a very difficult time changing the landscape. The old guard will have benefited from the deflationary aspects of Bitcoin and you're not going to be able to change the minds of people who became billionaires because they bought thousands or mined tens of thousands of Bitcoins in 2010 or 2011. These people will own hundreds of ASICminer shares and will own stocks in many other companies as well and as the shareholders these individuals may decide they like the deflationary aspect.

What will make matters even worse for you is that people right now are following the same path, buying Bitcoins, learning to appreciate the deflationary aspects of it, and in 2016 these people could be millionaires as well. What will happen is journalists are going to start interviewing more and more Bitcoin millionaires and billionaires and do you think these people who grew up poor or working class and through Bitcoin became rich are going to decide suddenly that Bitcoin has a flawed design? It never happens. And people who get in at 2016 will see what happened for people who got in at 2013, or 2011, or 2010, and they'll choose Bitcoin merely because by choosing Bitcoin they'll be better off.
I don't think anything can stop that trend from happening except making Bitcoin illegal. if Bitcoin is legal and people start becoming millionaires and billionaires overnight, then there can be other more stable coins, coins with better technology, stuff like Ripple with establishment support, but ultimately a billion dollars is cooler than a million. A thousand is cooler than a hundred. A hundred is cooler than ten. Ten is cooler than one.

You haven't addressed any practical element of how a transactional structure would work grow, and I was going to write a response explaining what I mean by the "shitty side" of bitcoin credit, why deflation isn't good for business and diversifying interests, the nature of likely economic contraction and ruinous social progress (beyond that already written into demographic trends) to which a deflationary currency could pertain...

...until I kept reading and realised you've just done that yourself in genuinely, with zero irony, outlining a bubbly pyramid scheme. No mention of technological progress, a basis in state undermining, bypassing parasitic a parasitical financial sector...; just a pyramid with a new bunch of dumb cronies praying for salvation via continued mass ignorance. If you're going to take that view you at least have to concede to the necessity to bring in new blood ("bait people in it" as you put it). So really your whole argument for Bitcoin's future rests on mass stupidity, that everybody else is incapable of coming to the same conclusion that you can reach i.e. that it's all bullshit except marketing and making a few people wealthy, ironically wealthy in fiat or other non-btc assets obviously?

Hilarious. If that's the basis of your efforts and investments I hope for your sake you're one of the very early bitcoin adopters with a significant holding, preferably already sold, because if that's all it is you're going to get mightily stuffed by a rolling reality as the music slows and stops. There's always somebody with bigger pockets but not always another fool.

Drug trade and organized crime >> read above

[Vlad2Vlad]

Notabot, I can't find your post, it disappeared.

At any rate, good catch.  On one hand maybe its the same guy as 8 minutes apart is a bit fishy, especially for 3 names with similar opinions.

On the other hand, a lot of new people have joined lately, me included so maybe that's a coincidence.

Thing about luckybit, he's not flaming like this new owsley guy.  His arguments are well thought out and they make a lot of sense.  What he says may end up coming true - it's definitely at least a possibility.

I too think there has to be some change as the current model cannot thrive in its current form - its simply not sustainable as too many people are signing up too fast while the value is going the wrong way, so one would expect talent to really go south.

It's only a theory but it makes sense as this is what one would expect in real life.  I don't know the solution but I do agree we should have a healthy debate about it and perhaps we'll find a solution.  

Because for sure many more coins are coming and devcoin only has a limited window of opportunity to grow and get its name out before a landslide of alt coins come over us all and bury devcoin in an avalanche of obscurity and mediocrity.

Regards,

Vlad

Someone is trolling. Look at my profile. I did not register in June.

He corrected himself.  And I was actually standing up for you as not possibly being one of them as your arguments are too well thought out.  Thanks for posting.

Also, you said cookies are better than IP addresses.  Well, what if cookies are disabled or if cookies are erased or cleared?  TIA

[jasinlee]

Marticps is going to produce the animation for the devcoin video for the bitcoin education site. I suggest the bounty be distributed accordingly based on time necessary to produce it.

[FinShaggy]

If you want Devcoins, I suggest selling things on Ebay and Craigslist, and linking people to it on Bitcoin talk and giving a DVC price.

It's the best way to earn Devcoins, and support the DVC economy ALL AT ONCE. While the person who uses the coins to buy something just found a new purpose for devcoin, and might try it themselves.

[Vlad2Vlad]

If you want Devcoins, I suggest selling things on Ebay and Craigslist, and linking people to it on Bitcoin talk and giving a DVC price.

It's the best way to earn Devcoins, and support the DVC economy ALL AT ONCE. While the person who uses the coins to buy something just found a new purpose for devcoin, and might try it themselves.

That's actually a pretty good idea.

[owsleybeatsbigcartel]

Notabot, I can't find your post, it disappeared.

At any rate, good catch.  On one hand maybe its the same guy as 8 minutes apart is a bit fishy, especially for 3 names with similar opinions.

On the other hand, a lot of new people have joined lately, me included so maybe that's a coincidence.

Thing about luckybit, he's not flaming like this new owsley guy.  His arguments are well thought out and they make a lot of sense.  What he says may end up coming true - it's definitely at least a possibility.

I too think there has to be some change as the current model cannot thrive in its current form - its simply not sustainable as too many people are signing up too fast while the value is going the wrong way, so one would expect talent to really go south.

It's only a theory but it makes sense as this is what one would expect in real life.  I don't know the solution but I do agree we should have a healthy debate about it and perhaps we'll find a solution.  

Because for sure many more coins are coming and devcoin only has a limited window of opportunity to grow and get its name out before a landslide of alt coins come over us all and bury devcoin in an avalanche of obscurity and mediocrity.

Regards,

Vlad

Someone is trolling. Look at my profile. I did not register in June.

He corrected himself.  And I was actually standing up for you as not possibly being one of them as your arguments are too well thought out.  Thanks for posting.

Also, you said cookies are better than IP addresses.  Well, what if cookies are disabled or if cookies are erased or cleared?  TIA

ie: how do you track scammers?

[owsleybeatsbigcartel]

If you want Devcoins, I suggest selling things on Ebay and Craigslist, and linking people to it on Bitcoin talk and giving a DVC price.

It's the best way to earn Devcoins, and support the DVC economy ALL AT ONCE. While the person who uses the coins to buy something just found a new purpose for devcoin, and might try it themselves.

Ebay and Craigslist = scammers meeting place

[FinShaggy]

If you want Devcoins, I suggest selling things on Ebay and Craigslist, and linking people to it on Bitcoin talk and giving a DVC price.

It's the best way to earn Devcoins, and support the DVC economy ALL AT ONCE. While the person who uses the coins to buy something just found a new purpose for devcoin, and might try it themselves.

That's actually a pretty good idea.

You can also use your Devtome earnings to buy things you need, but sometimes buy 2 and sell the extra the same way.

[owsleybeatsbigcartel]

If you want Devcoins, I suggest selling things on Ebay and Craigslist, and linking people to it on Bitcoin talk and giving a DVC price.

It's the best way to earn Devcoins, and support the DVC economy ALL AT ONCE. While the person who uses the coins to buy something just found a new purpose for devcoin, and might try it themselves.

That's actually a pretty good idea.

You can also use your Devtome earnings to buy things you need, but sometimes buy 2 and sell the extra the same way.

are you still yapping about your dirty ecstacy pills ?

[FinShaggy]

If you want Devcoins, I suggest selling things on Ebay and Craigslist, and linking people to it on Bitcoin talk and giving a DVC price.

It's the best way to earn Devcoins, and support the DVC economy ALL AT ONCE. While the person who uses the coins to buy something just found a new purpose for devcoin, and might try it themselves.

That's actually a pretty good idea.

You can also use your Devtome earnings to buy things you need, but sometimes buy 2 and sell the extra the same way.

are you still yapping about your dirty ecstacy pills ?

Still trolling?

[killerstorm]

This is exactly one of the solutions I mentioned in a previous post on here. I asked why can't Devcoins be destroyed via a Freicoin style demurrage to cap the rate of inflation and people flamed me for it. They hated the idea of destroying Devcoins for any reason but I do think this solution has a chance to work and should be implemented robustly.

It makes no sense to have demurrage in devcoin because inflation already has similar effect.

What makes sense is destruction of fees which normally go to miners... In this case higher trade volume will make coins more valuable. You can't get same kind of behavior via demurrage.

[TaxReturn]

Fin, just put him on ignore, it's pointless.

[owsleybeatsbigcartel]

This is exactly one of the solutions I mentioned in a previous post on here. I asked why can't Devcoins be destroyed via a Freicoin style demurrage to cap the rate of inflation and people flamed me for it. They hated the idea of destroying Devcoins for any reason but I do think this solution has a chance to work and should be implemented robustly.

It makes no sense to have demurrage in devcoin because inflation already has similar effect.

What makes sense is destruction of fees which normally go to miners... In this case higher trade volume will make coins more valuable. You can't get same kind of behavior via demurrage.

Devcoin  exploits your system via spybot

[owsleybeatsbigcartel]

Fin, just put him on ignore, it's pointless.

ignore the obvious noobs

[kibu]

DVC has becoming less and less valuable, is nobody buying this coin anymore?

[Luckybit]

One of the writers on devtome, Wiser, posted this article outlining their experience and ideas for the project. I think it's definitely worth a read and some thinking through:  http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=on_writing_and_market_forces

I just realized I need to add a section about number of words rewarded per month.  I will post it once I do.

Also, I know I am missing details about how shares are divided up.  If anyone has an article which clarifies that and is more accurate, please pm me and I will link to it  

I think I have a solution to determine a pay structure. We should go with a meritocracy based around a badge system. These badges would act as rank and determine how much each writer gets paid.

This way you would have granularity, merit, reward for quality, and reward for work. This badge system could also apply to programmers, musicians, or anything else. In order to get a basic level badge an individual would have to pass an exam. This exam should cost some coins and this would prevent spammers. The exam process would make it easier for Fuzzybear or whomever to review works. Perhaps eventually let random community members or even pay individuals to review them. The initial badge would declare that the individual meets the minimum qualification to be recognized as a writer, a programmer, or whatever.

Then over time reward with different higher level badges. These different badges will act as rank and as long as the writer continues to write their pay grade will be a bit higher based on the quality of their previous work as recognized by their badge. There should be different sorts of badges passed around throughout the community which recognize different kinds of competency.

Integrity for example is very valuable no matter if you're a writer, programmer or anything else and a lot of us would rather see the rewards go to community members with proven integrity. This would act similar to ebay or amazon where people maintain a good reputation and can get business but scammers and cheats don't. The better the reputation and integrity of the artist, developer, etc, the greater the portion of shares they should get.

This would allow for the community to reward qualities not just of the work itself, but of the author or developer themselves and factor that into how much they get paid. For instance if Fin Shaggy is known to be a man of honor and integrity then he eventually will receive a badge and that badge will allow him to be recognized for that in pay rank. If Fin Shaggy is also known to be very competent at writing then he could get a badge for that and be recognized for that and get the $50 per share rate but the next person who does not have that badge or who isn't known as being a very competent writer, they'll have to focus more on earning the badge than on just pumping out low quality content. This will force them to actually care about the quality of their work for the badge.

The badge should be difficult to revoke if it's an integrity badge. If it's a competency badge then it should be permanent for writers because if a writer proves they can produce a good piece of art work or software that should be enough. The next step would be to create ranks which are even higher than badges which I'll call medals. Give the medals out to the truly exceptional people. It works very well in sports such as professional boxing or basketball where the champions and gold medalists are recognized as being the best and get the sponsorships.

This way established writers with good reputations for producing quality work will have badges, medals, and other qualifications and these should determine the worth of their shares. This way it's not marketing, it's not word count, it's not equally distributed like communism,  it's merit and competency and these badges could stay with the developer no matter what coin they use in the future. If Ethicoin, Devcoin, Bitcoin, Litecoin or Futurecoin becomes popular these badges will still have established the merit and rank and would persist throughout all of that.

This way I'll immediately know which among you are talented at whatever, which among you are knowledgeable or skilled, and which among you are honorable.

[owsleybeatsbigcartel]

DVC has becoming less and less valuable, is nobody buying this coin anymore?

DVC virus isn't delisted yet i'm surprised = exploit detected

[Vlad2Vlad]

DVC has becoming less and less valuable, is nobody buying this coin anymore?

Too much merged mining - my guess the pools and miners just dump it for whatever they can get.  There's also thousands of people (developers, writers, etc) who earn these coins and need the money so they're dumping as well.  I haven't sold any of my devcoins and I'm now down about 70%.  Ouch!

[owsleybeatsbigcartel]

One of the writers on devtome, Wiser, posted this article outlining their experience and ideas for the project. I think it's definitely worth a read and some thinking through:  http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=on_writing_and_market_forces

I just realized I need to add a section about number of words rewarded per month.  I will post it once I do.

Also, I know I am missing details about how shares are divided up.  If anyone has an article which clarifies that and is more accurate, please pm me and I will link to it 

I think I have a solution to determine a pay structure. We should go with a meritocracy based around a badge system. These badges would act as rank and determine how much each writer gets paid.

This way you would have granularity, merit, reward for quality, and reward for work. This badge system could also apply to programmers, musicians, or anything else. In order to get a basic level badge an individual would have to pass an exam. This exam should cost some coins and this would prevent spammers. The exam process would make it easier for Fuzzybear or whomever to review works. Perhaps eventually let random community members or even pay individuals to review them. The initial badge would declare that the individual meets the minimum qualification to be recognized as a writer, a programmer, or whatever.

Then over time reward with different higher level badges. These different badges will act as rank and as long as the writer continues to write their pay grade will be a bit higher based on the quality of their previous work as recognized by their badge. There should be different sorts of badges passed around throughout the community which recognize different kinds of competency.

Integrity for example is very valuable no matter if you're a writer, programmer or anything else and a lot of us would rather see the rewards go to community members with proven integrity. This would act similar to ebay or amazon where people maintain a good reputation and can get business but scammers and cheats don't. The better the reputation and integrity of the artist, developer, etc, the greater the portion of shares they should get.

This would allow for the community to reward qualities not just of the work itself, but of the author or developer themselves and factor that into how much they get paid. For instance if Fin Shaggy is known to be a man of honor and integrity then he eventually will receive a badge and that badge will allow him to be recognized for that in pay rank. If Fin Shaggy is also known to be very competent at writing then he could get a badge for that and be recognized for that and get the $50 per share rate but the next person who does not have that badge or who isn't known as being a very competent writer, they'll have to focus more on earning the badge than on just pumping out low quality content. This will force them to actually care about the quality of their work for the badge.

The badge should be difficult to revoke if it's an integrity badge. If it's a competency badge then it should be permanent for writers because if a writer proves they can produce a good piece of art work or software that should be enough. The next step would be to create ranks which are even higher than badges which I'll call medals. Give the medals out to the truly exceptional people.

This way established writers with good reputations for producing quality work will have badges, medals, and other qualifications and these should determine the worth of their shares. This way it's not marketing, it's not word count, it's not equally distributed like communism,  it's merit and competency and these badges could stay with the developer no matter what coin they use in the future. If Ethicoin, Devcoin, Bitcoin, Litecoin or Futurecoin becomes popular these badges will still have established the merit and rank and would persist throughout all of that.

This way I'll immediately know which among you are talented at whatever, which among you are knowledgeable or skilled, and which among you are honorable.

badges will be involved yes lol