[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[smooth]

Considering xcoins max block subsidy was 500 and litecoins was 50 that makes sense.

The difficulty algorithm "int64 nSubsidy = (1111 / (pow((dDiff+1),2)))" would have clamped that down but the difficulty didn't raise fast enough (see point #1) to restrict total minting to more reasonable levels.

These are the facts. Code doesn't lie.

What you are missing is that:

1. Xcoin was specified to adjust difficulty every 60 minutes (12 5-minute blocks), and barring any other issue this would have slowed down mining reasonably quickly, as you said.

2. However, without explanation, the code that was actually released adjusted difficulty only once every 576 blocks, 48 times more slowly.

3. Xcoin also had a "bug" that greatly increased the amount of coins per block. It should have started at 100, not 500, and once the difficulty started to increase, it should have dropped lower still, not stayed at 500. This was not fixed until block 4500.

4. Subsequent supply cuts reduced the per-block reward to the current 3, which is <1/166 of the reward in most of the first 4500 blocks. By contrast LTC only recently reduced its per-block reward to 1/2 of the reward in the initial blocks.

These are the main reasons that the instamine ended up being so enormous, especially relative to the current supply, not the normal ramp up of difficulty that causes a very small instamine in most normal cases.

It's not an analogy. It's a flaw that many, many coins share. Xcoin was not unique in this regard.

Okay maybe not unique, but the scale of it is vastly larger in the case of Dash, and Dash had additional factors contributing to its instamine in addition to normal difficulty adjustment lag, wouldn't you agree?


References:

Is it me or difficulty is stuck at 1.00 for the last 2 hours? The network is around 100Mh/s, and we are solving blocks faster than every 5 minutes, shouldn't diff be higher?

I notice this too.  Why isn't diff increasing?

- 5 minute block target
- 6 Confirms per transaction
- Difficulty re-targets every 60 minutes
- Block reward controlled by moores law ( 1111 / (diff+1 ^ 2))

Block reward controlled by moores law ( 1111 / (diff+1 ^ 2))


( 1111 / (0.005+1 ^ 2)) = 92.54477301

( 1111 / (1.00001+1 ^ 2)) = 85.46147272

( 1111 / (3.44635085+1 ^ 2)) = 71.92637347

( 1111 / (5.44+1 ^ 2)) = 63.70412844

The block rewards should have start close to 100 coins per block and should have gotten smaller each time the difficulty goes up and the reward should increase as the difficulty goes down.

Difficulty just changed to 3.44635085, block reward is now: 1111 / (1 + 3.44635085)^2 = 56.1961549627. I guess there is little point in solo mining now.

If the block reward was supposed to be 56.1961549627, why is it showing 500 in both mining pools.....

I confirm that block reward with current difficulty is again 500, this is weird.

Everyone using the linux based version please update your source from GitHub! I fixed the code that is causing the strange block rewards and it goes active at block 4500! If you do not upgrade you'll be left behind!

Just update from GitHub here: https://github.com/evan82/xcoin

[pille]

Ignore-troll-template. Just do it, you will feel better. Have I missed any?

[toknormal]

Pleased to see we're discussing Dash's 'instamine' again.

The 'flaw' that created the pearl 

[smoothie]

Regarding XCoin/DarkCoin/Dash's "instamine":

The plain and simple fact is that big hash on a new coin always causes trouble when the difficulty adjustment only occurs over very large block intervals and when that difficulty adjustment has a limited maximum multiplier per interval.

Litecoins launch had similar difficulty readjustment issues with similar minting results.



There is no scam here, only inherited bad models.

Wrong. Here is the math below for a apples to apples comparison of mintage vs time:

I said nothing about number of coins minted, only the difficulty adjustment in respect to block count.

It's not an analogy. It's a flaw that many, many coins share. Xcoin was not unique in this regard.

I like math too, let's do some:

litecoin has a 2.5 minute block target.
xcoin had a 5 minute block target

In 48 hours, 1152 blocks should occur for litecoin (48 * 60 / 2.5) and
In 48 hours, 576 blocks should occur for xcoin (48 * 60 / 5)

In the first 48 hours of litecoin (2011-10-13 02:59:41 -> 2011-10-15 02:55:24), 10897 blocks were minted.

In the first 48 hours of xcoin (2014-01-19 03:54:41 -> 2014-01-21 03:54:46), 5055 blocks were minted.

Both of these values are WELL ABOVE the intended minting rates.

litecoin was 945% over target
xcoin was 877% over target

This is the only point I made in the original post:  That the difficulty adjustment of both coins was insufficient.

--

More than 10 TIMES the amount of current supply (as a % comparison) was put into circulation in the first 8 hours than what was mined in the first 24 hours of litecoin's launch.

Considering xcoins max block subsidy was 500 and litecoins was 50 that makes sense.

The difficulty algorithm "int64 nSubsidy = (1111 / (pow((dDiff+1),2)))" would have clamped that down but the difficulty didn't raise fast enough (see point #1) to restrict total minting to more reasonable levels.

These are the facts. Code doesn't lie.

Oh really? You didn't mention anything about coins minted in any way?

You said "Litecoins launch had similar difficulty readjustment issues with similar minting results."

Your graph also does not show DIFFICULTY numbers in any way. Your graph says "Total SUPPLY LTC". Nor does your graph say anything about # of blocks mined.

 How do you expect to take a picture about # of LTC mined and talk about difficulty in any meaningful way?

Yeah well your red bolded comment about "minting results" does imply coins mined.

Also you said "no scam here"...which how would difficulty have anything to do (without the association of COINS/DASH/DRK) with a SCAM?

You don't sell difficulty nor accept difficulty as payment.

Your post sure does imply you are talking about coins in more than 1 way.

 

My post below shows that there is no "SIMILARITY" in minting results between LTC and DASH:

Wrong. Here is the math below for a apples to apples comparison of mintage vs time:

Litecoin current supply - 42,681,260 LTC

In the first 24 hours   504,650 LTC were mined
Block #10092          2011-10-14 03:08:59
LINK: http://explorer.litecoin.net/chain/Litecoin?hi=12095&count=2016
block link: http://explorer.litecoin.net/block/fca5b3100fe457c1642c914c45214b4860aacd265d8bfd1e4af0004fd89a9032


After 1 year 9 months later -  19,398,754  LTC were mined  
block #387,985
DATE & TIME - 2013-07-13 12:53:54
link: http://explorer.litecoin.net/chain/Litecoin?hi=390000&count=2016

504,650 / 19,398,754 = 0.02601455742982 OR 2.6% of supply


block link: http://explorer.litecoin.net/block/37c6b847bd3d433247cff941ed874786487715ff4fff9c2977bf273d1c967965


Dash current supply - 5,882,880 (~1 year 9 months)

1,625,000 DASH was mined in first 8 hours

1,625,000 DASH / 5,822,880 = 0.27622525021758 OR 27.62% of supply


link: http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=a_massive_investigation_of_instamines_and_fastmines_for_the_top_alt_coins#monero

Darkcoin
   ▪   derived from Quark
   ▪   type of algorithm: blake, bmw, groestl, keccak, jh, stein
   ▪   PoW and PoS
The following data and time stamps were collected from the Darkcoin blockchain 37).
   ▪   Block 1: 2014-01-19 Time: 3:54:41
   ▪   Block 1000 : 2014-01-19 Time: 4:33:39
   ▪   Block 2000: 2014-01-19 Time: 06:25:47
   ▪   Block 3000: 2014-01-19 Time: 09:10:16
   ▪   Block 3250: 2014-01-19 Time: 11:22:11
Looking at this data, we see that Darkcoin was mined with 500 DRK generated per block from the get go. From block 1 to at least block 3250, according to their blockchain, they were still producing 500 coins each block. The transition from 500 to 277 coins per block occurs between 3250 and 3500 but this author did not see the necessity of getting the exact moment of halving. Simple math shows that 3250 blocks multiplied by 500 coins a block is 1,625,000 Darkcoins created between the times of 3:54 and 11:22 on January 19th, 2014. As of today there are around 4,300,000 DRK in existence, making this a pretty hefty instamine. The Darkcoin website expects around 22,000,000 DRK to be created. That means in less than 8 hours, almost 5% of the Darkcoins that ever will be created spawned in that 1/3 of a day. It's safe to say Darkcoin has left it's investors in the dark on this one.

More than 10 TIMES the amount of current supply (as a % comparison) was put into circulation in the first 8 hours than what was mined in the first 24 hours of litecoin's launch.

Hardly a comparable equivalent to use as an analogy. Laughable at best.

[smoothie]

my conclusion, there has never been a coin with a perfect launch including bitcoin.

Litecoin had a really good launch.

Just ask anyone who was around prelaunch before it was put out in the wild by Charlie Lee.

[illodin]

my conclusion, there has never been a coin with a perfect launch including bitcoin.

Litecoin had a really good launch.

Just ask anyone who was around prelaunch before it was put out in the wild by Charlie Lee.

I missed the launch. Therefor it's a scam. 

[toknormal]

Litecoin had a really good launch.

Shame it didn't do its long term valuation any good. (No 'good launch' ever does because it's not the reason people buy coins, but feel free to keep trying to convince me    )

[smoothie]

...
April 23, 2014, 03:57:02 PM
comment #5
"Before this thread is too big, I would like to state that a bug has been identified in the emission curve and we are currently in the process of fixing it (me, TFT, and smooth).
Currently coins are emitted at double the rate that was intended.  We will correct this in the future," Tacotime
https://asktom.cf/index.php?topic=582080.msg6362559#msg6362559

how many coins spilled out during the monero double emission rate instamine bug?

Here perhaps you should take what smooth says to heart...look at the block explorer and source to see that the emission of Monero was correct and is still correct until today. Tacotime misunderstood. You are welcome to contact him and ask him directly.

@coins101

I suggest you look at a block explorer, or better yet the blockchain itself. The rate is exactly what was intended and published (unlike the coin that is the topic if this thread).  Tacotime misunderstood, but you are making a fool of yourself.

[smoothie]

my conclusion, there has never been a coin with a perfect launch including bitcoin.

Litecoin had a really good launch.

Just ask anyone who was around prelaunch before it was put out in the wild by Charlie Lee.

I missed the launch. Therefor it's a scam. 

Your trolling attempts are actually not even that good.

Never did I say that Dash is a scam because I missed the launch.

But you can conjecture whatever you want as in this thread many appear to suffer from evanduffield-ism.

I truly feel sorry for you. 

[smooth]

pretend breakaway's from bytecoin with 'new' devs.

ROFL

Please, keep that myth going. We could use a little mystery behind Monero to attract people with a tendency toward conspiracy theories.

[BrainShutdown]

[smoothie]

pretend breakaway's from bytecoin with 'new' devs.

ROFL

Please, keep that myth going. We could use a little mystery behind Monero to attract people with a tendency toward conspiracy theories.

No worries son, sorry that the truth cuts to the bone and has to make you crawl out from your burrow to defend.

LOL just because you say something, doesn't make it true. 

[AzzAz]

Smoothie, on page 10 of this thread there's a list of IP's that where up and running in the first hours of launch, had a look at them? There's also several posts by established altcoin miners with large blocks of 10 and 20 k xcoin for sale a little later in the thread and there's a common trend of them jumping on coins at launch and getting large stashes at low difficulty, imho they got the vast majority of xcoin and sold them off as soon as a price was established, there's even a fair number of posts fishing for what folks where willing to pay.

No point  to explain, it is clear even for dumb newb. They are not here to clear it, but to revert newbies.
 It is just sad that moderators are watching this same shit all the time...

[toknormal]

I truly feel sorry for you. 

Looks to me like you feel sorry yourself smoothie.

If your bags are getting so heavy that you feel the need to post in here every day for comfort value then maybe you'd better think again about what matters most to markets and invest accordingly.

[smoothie]

Smoothie, on page ?? of this thread there's a list of IP's that where up and running in the first hours of launch, had a look at them? There's also several posts by established altcoin miners with large blocks of 10 and 20 k xcoin for sale a little later in the thread and there's a common trend of them jumping on coins at launch and getting large stashes at low difficulty, imho they got the vast majority of xcoin and sold them off as soon as a price was established, there's even a fair number of posts fishing for what folks where willing to pay.

EDIT: Not page 10, looking for it now.

No I did not see that list.

But how does that list prove anything other than people were mining back then?

Evan says there was hundreds of miners mining XCOIN in the first few hours based upon the Q&A of his latest presentation. How does he know this to make such a statement?

yeah i looked and didnt see it on page 10 either....

[AzzAz]

BUMP

[smoothie]

Smoothie, on page 10 of this thread there's a list of IP's that where up and running in the first hours of launch, had a look at them? There's also several posts by established altcoin miners with large blocks of 10 and 20 k xcoin for sale a little later in the thread and there's a common trend of them jumping on coins at launch and getting large stashes at low difficulty, imho they got the vast majority of xcoin and sold them off as soon as a price was established, there's even a fair number of posts fishing for what folks where willing to pay.

No point  to explain, it is clear even for dumb newb. They are not here to clear it, but to revert newbies.
 It is just sad that moderators are watching this same shit all the time...

There's seem to be a fair number in tight ranges and I'm curious about them, smoothie may have seen them before.

Yes I see the list.

My first question would be then how does that prove what each ip's hash rate is on the dash network? All this proves is there was more than a couple people mining at the launch. Maybe...

For all we know many of those ips could be evans.

Wasn't there no windows miner but only linux miner at first?

There appear to be very similar ip addresses in that list... for example "54.202.162.56" or "137.135.103.204"

At least a dozen of them there.

[smoothie]

pretend breakaway's from bytecoin with 'new' devs.

ROFL

Please, keep that myth going. We could use a little mystery behind Monero to attract people with a tendency toward conspiracy theories.

No worries son, sorry that the truth cuts to the bone and has to make you crawl out from your burrow to defend.

LOL just because you say something, doesn't make it true.  

Just ignore what i say then and don't respond. Just words............but you kind of have to respond don't you guys  

You sure do have an imagination. No one should stomp on your sand castle because it would be childish to do so.

Keep playing in your sandbox. 

[tungfa]

The Final Leaked TPP Text is All That We Feared

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2015/10/final-leaked-tpp-text-all-we-feared
 

[smooth]

Smoothie, on page ?? of this thread there's a list of IP's that where up and running in the first hours of launch, had a look at them? There's also several posts by established altcoin miners with large blocks of 10 and 20 k xcoin for sale a little later in the thread and there's a common trend of them jumping on coins at launch and getting large stashes at low difficulty, imho they got the vast majority of xcoin and sold them off as soon as a price was established, there's even a fair number of posts fishing for what folks where willing to pay.

EDIT: Not page 10, looking for it now.

No I did not see that list.

But how does that list prove anything other than people were mining back then?

Evan says there was hundreds of miners mining XCOIN in the first few hours based upon the Q&A of his latest presentation. How does he know this to make such a statement?

yeah i looked and didnt see it on page 10 either....

Any running client would have been able to list connections and folks where having trouble getting nodes to connect to so folks where listing known good nodes at that point. It's here:
https://asktom.cf/index.php?topic=421615.msg4595573#msg4595573

At first glance, most of those look like AWS (54.x) or Azure (137.x, 138.x, 168.x) addresses to me. I haven't gone through the whole thing, but nothing about the list strikes me as evidence of hundreds of miners. Could be a very small number of people running a bunch of instances.