Buy the DIP, and HODL!

[JayJuanGee]

Furthermore, to prevent panic and emotional instability, this usually leads to an investor's mentality and attitude in interacting with their surroundings. Because if the surrounding environment always creates negative things that can influence the investor's thoughts and mentality, then one day the investor will definitely feel the pressure influenced by the surrounding environment which will cause bad things for him.

Yea, to an extent, the investor might panic if he or she heard of any bad news about Bitcoin, but that would be extremely hard for someone that invest only from his discretionary income because it's a money he can afford to lose, and since the investor is only thinking long term, he might not panic like someone that bought Bitcoin and be hoping for quick profit , so the motive of the investor will play a big role if he will panic in time of a dip or not.

I really don't know who told you people that Discretionary income is the money that you can afford to lose, your discretionary income is the money that is left after all your expenses that does not mean that is an income that you can afford to lose, a Discretionary income is very important in our life because it usually determine how your future will be after retirement, the reason why I'm saying so is that you can only start a business or an investment with the money you have saved from your discretionary income, you cannot be saving money you are supposed to use to feed or to pay your children school fees the only money you can be saving for any investment or business is your discretionary income so it is not a money that you can afford to lose, it is only in gambling that you can use money you can afford to lose not in Bitcoin investment.

We should be investing in bitcoin with money that we can afford to lose.

Sure, all discretionary income is not money that we can afford to lose, since discretionary income can be spent on 1) investment, 2) saving, 3) consumption.  Any money that we use for investing, including in bitcoin, is money that we might not get back.

[impulse709]

Furthermore, to prevent panic and emotional instability, this usually leads to an investor's mentality and attitude in interacting with their surroundings. Because if the surrounding environment always creates negative things that can influence the investor's thoughts and mentality, then one day the investor will definitely feel the pressure influenced by the surrounding environment which will cause bad things for him.

Yea, to an extent, the investor might panic if he or she heard of any bad news about Bitcoin, but that would be extremely hard for someone that invest only from his discretionary income because it's a money he can afford to lose, and since the investor is only thinking long term, he might not panic like someone that bought Bitcoin and be hoping for quick profit , so the motive of the investor will play a big role if he will panic in time of a dip or not.

I really don't know who told you people that Discretionary income is the money that you can afford to lose, your discretionary income is the money that is left after all your expenses that does not mean that is an income that you can afford to lose, a Discretionary income is very important in our life because it usually determine how your future will be after retirement, the reason why I'm saying so is that you can only start a business or an investment with the money you have saved from your discretionary income, you cannot be saving money you are supposed to use to feed or to pay your children school fees the only money you can be saving for any investment or business is your discretionary income so it is not a money that you can afford to lose, it is only in gambling that you can use money you can afford to lose not in Bitcoin investment.

I can understand both parties in this case, however, I believe that it is a matter of attitude and financial discipline. Then, discretionary income is not free money to roll dice with it is the money remaining after all necessities. That is why it can be used in long-term investments such as Bitcoin, but it cannot and must not jeopardize your family or life in general. Hypothetical anticipations or assessing decisions tend to result in panic. When you invest just the amount you can responsibly devote to it and are long-term oriented, market dips are opportunities and not threats. It is all about patience, planning, and not putting your emotions in it (HODL strategy).

[Mr_Brilliant$]

Investors is investor and trader is trader. two completely different things. Those who invest do not sell their investment assets until they can make a profit. Be it investing in Bitcoin or anything else. They are not afraid to wait for a long time. But those who are traders are panicking, they want to make a profit very quickly and want to roll over their budget frequently to get a lot of money quickly. So they cannot be thought of as investors. They are a kind of gambler. Investment is always long-term. And no one loses by investing in the long term.

But I have seen some investors who behave like traders. They invest according to the DCA method but sometimes sell in the hope of profit. Many times they sell without getting the right profit. Because they do not have enough financial flow to prolong the investment. But in the hope of profit, they suffer losses again and again.

Investing in Bitcoin is easy but keeping that investment active until the goal is reached is a challenging matter. To invest in Bitcoin, first of all, a financial flow is required. From that flowing money, some money should be kept to create an emergency fund and a reserve fund. If all this money is managed with proper planning, even an incompetent investor will become skilled.

I think the main problem with those kinds of people is that they say they are investors, but deep down they still operate with a traders mindset...   And once your mindset is still short term moves, you will always feel tempted to take profit quickly even when the whole plan was to hold long term…

An investor should not behave like a trader..  The moment you start mixing both approaches, you have already broken your own strategy..  And most times it is not because the person is weak, it is simply because they never built the right foundation from the beginning..  If you are investing with money you might need next week, or you do not have an emergency fund, or you are scared your income can not sustain the long hold… you will always end up touching your investment out of pressure..

That is why long term holding is actually a personal discipline thing. Using only discretionary income, building your emergency funds on the side, having a proper structure for your finances… all those things protect you from yourself. When you have planned well, you do not panic sell, you don’t touch your Bitcoin anyhow..

[Fara Chan]

I can understand both parties in this case, however, I believe that it is a matter of attitude and financial discipline. Then, discretionary income is not free money to roll dice with it is the money remaining after all necessities. That is why it can be used in long-term investments such as Bitcoin, but it cannot and must not jeopardize your family or life in general. Hypothetical anticipations or assessing decisions tend to result in panic. When you invest just the amount you can responsibly devote to it and are long-term oriented, market dips are opportunities and not threats. It is all about patience, planning, and not putting your emotions in it (HODL strategy).

The HODL strategy is long-term because the key thing to consider is the size of our discretionary income for the strategy to truly work in the long term. Furthermore, any investor who has invested in Bitcoin or anything else is certainly well-prepared, as they wouldn't want to go hungry just because they're investing for the long term. And I hope that at the beginning of next year, the Bitcoin price conditions will be very different from the current conditions so that the enthusiasm of old investors can increase again, which may result in the birth of investors in Bitcoin, even though at this time there are already many new investors who are interested in buying Bitcoin.

[JayJuanGee]

Furthermore, to prevent panic and emotional instability, this usually leads to an investor's mentality and attitude in interacting with their surroundings. Because if the surrounding environment always creates negative things that can influence the investor's thoughts and mentality, then one day the investor will definitely feel the pressure influenced by the surrounding environment which will cause bad things for him.

Yea, to an extent, the investor might panic if he or she heard of any bad news about Bitcoin, but that would be extremely hard for someone that invest only from his discretionary income because it's a money he can afford to lose, and since the investor is only thinking long term, he might not panic like someone that bought Bitcoin and be hoping for quick profit , so the motive of the investor will play a big role if he will panic in time of a dip or not.

I really don't know who told you people that Discretionary income is the money that you can afford to lose, your discretionary income is the money that is left after all your expenses that does not mean that is an income that you can afford to lose, a Discretionary income is very important in our life because it usually determine how your future will be after retirement, the reason why I'm saying so is that you can only start a business or an investment with the money you have saved from your discretionary income, you cannot be saving money you are supposed to use to feed or to pay your children school fees the only money you can be saving for any investment or business is your discretionary income so it is not a money that you can afford to lose, it is only in gambling that you can use money you can afford to lose not in Bitcoin investment.

I can understand both parties in this case, however, I believe that it is a matter of attitude and financial discipline. Then, discretionary income is not free money to roll dice with it is the money remaining after all necessities. That is why it can be used in long-term investments such as Bitcoin, but it cannot and must not jeopardize your family or life in general. Hypothetical anticipations or assessing decisions tend to result in panic. When you invest just the amount you can responsibly devote to it and are long-term oriented, market dips are opportunities and not threats. It is all about patience, planning, and not putting your emotions in it (HODL strategy).

There is no guarantee that you are going to get your invested money back.

Sure you can cash out of your bitcoin at any time while it is still either worth something close that you invested into it or at various points along the way, in the even that the bitcoin price were to go spiraling down to $20k, and at the same time, you are not guaranteed to get your money back, so you should not be approaching bitcoin as an investment as if you had some minimum return amount guaranteed, when you do not..

You are likely in a wrong mindset if you are investing with money that you "need" or you are relying upon.

Sure, of course, no one invests into anything, whether bitcoin or anything else with an expectation that they are going to lose money, so likely the purpose of the investment is to both give you more options in the future and perhaps even to have your money gain in value with the passage of time.. and so what?  You expect to get a return on your money.. That is why you invested into bitcoin rather than some shitcoin, yet even though you thought that you were investing into a solid investment, you still are not guaranteed any minimum level of return.

From my perspective, people who proclaim that the better mindset is to consider that you are locking money away that you won't need for a long time.  I think that those people are living in a fantasy with their way of framing matters, yet sure, they are free to tell themselves whatever they like and they can also panic sell too, if bitcoin goes below some price point that they thought that it would never go.  I personally think that it is better and easier to both HODL through tough periods and/or to keep buying bitcoin during the tough times if you realize that there is a possibility that bitcoin could go to zero.  I also think that it is better to hold back on part of your investment into bitcoin with a mindset that bitcoin is not guaranteed to go up... so then in that regard, there are possibilities that we will tray to make sure that we are not totally damaged if we had put all of our wealth into bitcoin and then we end up both financially and psychologically damaged forever because we created too high of expectations as if the future is guaranteed in some kind of a way.

[Bigjoe33]

 I also think that it is better to hold back on part of your investment into bitcoin with a mindset that bitcoin is not guaranteed to go up... so then in that regard, there are possibilities that we will tray to make sure that we are not totally damaged if we had put all of our wealth into bitcoin and then we end up both financially and psychologically damaged forever because we created too high of expectations as if the future is guaranteed in some kind of a way.

''Bitcoin is not guaranteed to go up'', yea, and that should be a good for thought and a beach mark for all investors as to how we invest and/or high hopes we put or rely on Bitcoin to turn up positively. The thing is, the understanding and/or mentality we carry into Bitcoin investment is the big factor that controls or thinking and investment pattern, which either determines whether we go all in blindly with all our income or we do some reservations as to build ourselves properly with less hope and total dependency on Bitcoin in a short while.

Bitcoin promises financial stability in the future if you Hodl for long, no doubt, but such an investor must also put in mind that there is no GUARANTEE as to when you will reap these gains as the price swings aren't predictable. Therefore, to avoid feeling and/or been considered damaged as you pointed out earlier because the price keeps dropping, while investing, you must ensure your discretionary income is doing the work and not your entire earnings, so that alongside you can also build up back up funds for your day to day life demands. Investors can also get involved in personal businesses or get extra work to earn extra income, all these will ensure that you don't hang all your hopes in Bitcoin since its gains and continuous upwards movement is not guaranteed.

[Makus]

I suppose that distinction might somewhat fit with my own sense of one of the distinguishing areas, even though surely I know in practice the two will frequently overlap.. so in common parlance, some of their practices and/or mindsets (as black boss put it) are likely to overlap.

I do tend to gravitate towards my own definition, yet I am not going to proclaim that my own ideas are not going to clash, from time to time, with various definitions that I read and also sometimes cause tensions that might not always be necessary to have since ultimately there is still quite a bit of latitude in what guys do and how they describe what they are doing. 

I recall one time a few years ago, I was explaining my own practice of selling on the way up  and buying on the way down as portfolio management rather than trading, since I was selling without any expectation of buying back, yet if the BTC price drops below a certain amount, then I end up buying back, yet I don't give a shit if the price drops or not, and I would prefer that the price would not drop, so I am selling such a small amount and with an expectation that the BTC price will continue to go up and I will be forever locked out from being able to buy the sold amount at an equal or lower price than what I had sold it at, and therefore I make sure that my sell amounts are sufficiently small and also within amounts of BTC that I consider to be extra amounts that I own.

I am not even going to proclaim that my own perception of the matter, my attempts to distinguish between investing and trading, and my practice around my own bitcoin holdings is unambiguously clear even though I proclaim that within my own system of my BTC portfolio management I am not trading when I sell BTC as the price goes up.

I get your point, and viewing from your angle there is a bit of clash between  investing and trader. But here is what I think, just as every business and investment has a specific time of reaping profits, bitcoin is not an exception and you're definitely not a trader for taking some portion of a long term profit that you've held for a long time even when you still end up accumulating, and that's where it gets a bit messy and clashes with the ideology behind trading but again there is still a bit of difference that completely separate this from actual trading. Traders don't have the ability and patience to hold an asset for years, left alone holding for few cycles without repeatedly selling off a larger portion(or everything) at the peak price and buying again at the dip. 

However if there is another distinction between investing and trading then it's,  traders sell off their profits as well as their capital when price gets to a peak within short time span while investors only sell a fraction of their profit after a long term holding of bitcoin when necessary and still ends up encouraging the accumulation journey, and this is where your sustainable withdrawal method comes in. But after a long term investment, if the investors sell off everything then i think he has drifted from being an investor to a businessman.

Furthermore, to prevent panic and emotional instability, this usually leads to an investor's mentality and attitude in interacting with their surroundings. Because if the surrounding environment always creates negative things that can influence the investor's thoughts and mentality, then one day the investor will definitely feel the pressure influenced by the surrounding environment which will cause bad things for him.

Yea, to an extent, the investor might panic if he or she heard of any bad news about Bitcoin, but that would be extremely hard for someone that invest only from his discretionary income because it's a money he can afford to lose, and since the investor is only thinking long term, he might not panic like someone that bought Bitcoin and be hoping for quick profit , so the motive of the investor will play a big role if he will panic in time of a dip or not.

I would have agreed with you because there is no certainty that price will continually go up, but for an asset class like bitcoin, if anyone  panics then it's obvious they still have a trader's instincts and has not seen the big picture yet or attian the required investment span to be called an investor. Though people starting their early accumulation journey often falls in this category and this is where the need of a mentor comes in play. When they see their mentor not negatively responding to the market but rather excited to see price dip they might as well feel a bit of relief and confused at the same time until they realize the opportunity that lies within the dip acting as a leverage for buying more at cheaper rates.

[Crytohillss]

Furthermore, to prevent panic and emotional instability, this usually leads to an investor's mentality and attitude in interacting with their surroundings. Because if the surrounding environment always creates negative things that can influence the investor's thoughts and mentality, then one day the investor will definitely feel the pressure influenced by the surrounding environment which will cause bad things for him.

Yea, to an extent, the investor might panic if he or she heard of any bad news about Bitcoin, but that would be extremely hard for someone that invest only from his discretionary income because it's a money he can afford to lose, and since the investor is only thinking long term, he might not panic like someone that bought Bitcoin and be hoping for quick profit , so the motive of the investor will play a big role if he will panic in time of a dip or not.

I really don't know who told you people that Discretionary income is the money that you can afford to lose, your discretionary income is the money that is left after all your expenses that does not mean that is an income that you can afford to lose, a Discretionary income is very important in our life because it usually determine how your future will be after retirement, the reason why I'm saying so is that you can only start a business or an investment with the money you have saved from your discretionary income, you cannot be saving money you are supposed to use to feed or to pay your children school fees the only money you can be saving for any investment or business is your discretionary income so it is not a money that you can afford to lose, it is only in gambling that you can use money you can afford to lose not in Bitcoin investment.

I can understand both parties in this case, however, I believe that it is a matter of attitude and financial discipline. Then, discretionary income is not free money to roll dice with it is the money remaining after all necessities. That is why it can be used in long-term investments such as Bitcoin, but it cannot and must not jeopardize your family or life in general. Hypothetical anticipations or assessing decisions tend to result in panic. When you invest just the amount you can responsibly devote to it and are long-term oriented, market dips are opportunities and not threats. It is all about patience, planning, and not putting your emotions in it (HODL strategy).

There is no guarantee that you are going to get your invested money back.

Sure you can cash out of your bitcoin at any time while it is still either worth something close that you invested into it or at various points along the way, in the even that the bitcoin price were to go spiraling down to $20k, and at the same time, you are not guaranteed to get your money back, so you should not be approaching bitcoin as an investment as if you had some minimum return amount guaranteed, when you do not..

You are likely in a wrong mindset if you are investing with money that you "need" or you are relying upon.

Sure, of course, no one invests into anything, whether bitcoin or anything else with an expectation that they are going to lose money, so likely the purpose of the investment is to both give you more options in the future and perhaps even to have your money gain in value with the passage of time.. and so what?  You expect to get a return on your money.. That is why you invested into bitcoin rather than some shitcoin, yet even though you thought that you were investing into a solid investment, you still are not guaranteed any minimum level of return.

From my perspective, people who proclaim that the better mindset is to consider that you are locking money away that you won't need for a long time.  I think that those people are living in a fantasy with their way of framing matters, yet sure, they are free to tell themselves whatever they like and they can also panic sell too, if bitcoin goes below some price point that they thought that it would never go.  I personally think that it is better and easier to both HODL through tough periods and/or to keep buying bitcoin during the tough times if you realize that there is a possibility that bitcoin could go to zero.  I also think that it is better to hold back on part of your investment into bitcoin with a mindset that bitcoin is not guaranteed to go up... so then in that regard, there are possibilities that we will tray to make sure that we are not totally damaged if we had put all of our wealth into bitcoin and then we end up both financially and psychologically damaged forever because we created too high of expectations as if the future is guaranteed in some kind of a way.

the mind set we carry as investors it's gives a lot by our surrounding and it's easy to underestimate how much outside negativity can get into our heads staying focus and keeping emotions in check is not  about discipline it's about protecting your mental space when you are surrounded by constant doubt or pressure it definitely affect our decision. creating a stable positive environment is good as having a nice plan.

[JayJuanGee]

I also think that it is better to hold back on part of your investment into bitcoin with a mindset that bitcoin is not guaranteed to go up... so then in that regard, there are possibilities that we will tray to make sure that we are not totally damaged if we had put all of our wealth into bitcoin and then we end up both financially and psychologically damaged forever because we created too high of expectations as if the future is guaranteed in some kind of a way.

''Bitcoin is not guaranteed to go up'', yea, and that should be a good for thought and a beach mark for all investors as to how we invest and/or high hopes we put or rely on Bitcoin to turn up positively. The thing is, the understanding and/or mentality we carry into Bitcoin investment is the big factor that controls or thinking and investment pattern, which either determines whether we go all in blindly with all our income or we do some reservations as to build ourselves properly with less hope and total dependency on Bitcoin in a short while.

Bitcoin promises financial stability in the future if you Hodl for long, no doubt, but such an investor must also put in mind that there is no GUARANTEE as to when you will reap these gains as the price swings aren't predictable. Therefore, to avoid feeling and/or been considered damaged as you pointed out earlier because the price keeps dropping, while investing, you must ensure your discretionary income is doing the work and not your entire earnings, so that alongside you can also build up back up funds for your day to day life demands. Investors can also get involved in personal businesses or get extra work to earn extra income, all these will ensure that you don't hang all your hopes in Bitcoin since its gains and continuous upwards movement is not guaranteed.

A strange and/or ironic thing is that so many guys seem to have difficulties holding more than one thought in their head at the same time, since the future is not guaranteed.

There are a lot of ways that we can make sure that we are sufficiently and/or adequately prepared for up without presuming that UP is guaranteed.

And, yeah, maybe this is a bit of an argument about linquistics rather than mindset, since there is already is a well known statement that makes sense regarding investment, and that is don't invest more than you can afford to lose, and that applies to bitcoin too.. yet so many guys come in and they want to argue that the statement needs to be changed to say something like "don't invest more than you can afford to lock up for a long time," as if there is some kind of guarantee that they are going to get their money back or experience at least some minimal amount of performance.

Sure, each of us can take a large number of actions in order to attempt to protect our investment from execution risk, yet I think at the same time, we likely either have to ride the price out or to keep buying if the BTC price goes spiraling down, and sure maybe at some point we run out of money to keep buying and yeah maybe at some point we have to take out some money so that we are more financialy prepared and psychologically prepared in case the spiraliing down scenario plays out.. yet at the same time, there are a lot of guys who turn chicken shit and they pull out portions of their bitcoin investment rather than just letting the whole thing ride and keep adding too it until it gets to a point that maybe we might start to feel that it starts to become o.k. to start to pull some value out.. otherwise it seems to me that each of us should be able to figure out ways to invest enough into bitcoin, while at the same time not investing more than we are able to lose.

Another aspect of the asymetric bet is that if bitcoin performs well, we do not necessarily need to invest a lot into bitcoin in order to still be able to profit stupendously from having had invested into it at whatever level we had chosen to invest.

There are a lot of guys who pull out a lot of their bitcoin investment when it appreciates and they proclaim that they are reallocating and rebalancing, yet I think that is a bad way of dealing with your investment into bitcoin, and it is likely better to mostly allow your winner to continue to ride rather than taking out money from your winner (which is likely going to be bitcoin) and put it into your losers (under the assumption that the rest of your investment portfolio had under performed bitcoin). 

So, yeah guys have to figure out their mental framework and how to deal with it, yet I doubt that changing that statement is the right mental framework rather than the original statement which is don't invest any more than you are willing to lose, and that does not mean that any of us are investing in bitcoin and considering our bitcoin investment as if it were a shitcoin.

I suppose that distinction might somewhat fit with my own sense of one of the distinguishing areas, even though surely I know in practice the two will frequently overlap.. so in common parlance, some of their practices and/or mindsets (as black boss put it) are likely to overlap.

I do tend to gravitate towards my own definition, yet I am not going to proclaim that my own ideas are not going to clash, from time to time, with various definitions that I read and also sometimes cause tensions that might not always be necessary to have since ultimately there is still quite a bit of latitude in what guys do and how they describe what they are doing. 

I recall one time a few years ago, I was explaining my own practice of selling on the way up  and buying on the way down as portfolio management rather than trading, since I was selling without any expectation of buying back, yet if the BTC price drops below a certain amount, then I end up buying back, yet I don't give a shit if the price drops or not, and I would prefer that the price would not drop, so I am selling such a small amount and with an expectation that the BTC price will continue to go up and I will be forever locked out from being able to buy the sold amount at an equal or lower price than what I had sold it at, and therefore I make sure that my sell amounts are sufficiently small and also within amounts of BTC that I consider to be extra amounts that I own.

I am not even going to proclaim that my own perception of the matter, my attempts to distinguish between investing and trading, and my practice around my own bitcoin holdings is unambiguously clear even though I proclaim that within my own system of my BTC portfolio management I am not trading when I sell BTC as the price goes up.

I get your point, and viewing from your angle there is a bit of clash between  investing and trader. But here is what I think, just as every business and investment has a specific time of reaping profits, bitcoin is not an exception and you're definitely not a trader for taking some portion of a long term profit that you've held for a long time even when you still end up accumulating, and that's where it gets a bit messy and clashes with the ideology behind trading but again there is still a bit of difference that completely separate this from actual trading. Traders don't have the ability and patience to hold an asset for years, left alone holding for few cycles without repeatedly selling off a larger portion(or everything) at the peak price and buying again at the dip. 

There are long term and short term traders, and for sure in bitcoin there are a decent number of folks who think that they are so smart as to play the 4 year wave, and this is not the first time that they have tried to play such 4-year wave, and perhaps some of them are more successful (or lucky) than others.  I still consider longer wave folks as traders since they are purposefully selling with intentions of buying back cheaper.

However if there is another distinction between investing and trading then it's,  traders sell off their profits as well as their capital when price gets to a peak within short time span while investors only sell a fraction of their profit after a long term holding of bitcoin when necessary and still ends up encouraging the accumulation journey, and this is where your sustainable withdrawal method comes in.

Sure, any of us can hybridize our approach so that we are doing both.

We are trading with one part of our holdings and investing with the other part, and I would not be completely arguing against some kind of a hybrid approach as a personal compromise, yet surely in this thread we are not really talking about trading, so it gets dangerous to go down that path of discussion in regards to trying to mostly stay on topic.

But after a long term investment, if the investors sell off everything then i think he has drifted from being an investor to a businessman.

I think that bitcoin investing is something that a person should plan to do for life, unless they are thinking that their death is coming soon, and if their death is coming soon, maybe they want to spend everything before they die.

Furthermore, to prevent panic and emotional instability, this usually leads to an investor's mentality and attitude in interacting with their surroundings. Because if the surrounding environment always creates negative things that can influence the investor's thoughts and mentality, then one day the investor will definitely feel the pressure influenced by the surrounding environment which will cause bad things for him.

Yea, to an extent, the investor might panic if he or she heard of any bad news about Bitcoin, but that would be extremely hard for someone that invest only from his discretionary income because it's a money he can afford to lose, and since the investor is only thinking long term, he might not panic like someone that bought Bitcoin and be hoping for quick profit , so the motive of the investor will play a big role if he will panic in time of a dip or not.

I would have agreed with you because there is no certainty that price will continually go up, but for an asset class like bitcoin, if anyone  panics then it's obvious they still have a trader's instincts and has not seen the big picture yet or attian the required investment span to be called an investor. Though people starting their early accumulation journey often falls in this category and this is where the need of a mentor comes in play. When they see their mentor not negatively responding to the market but rather excited to see price dip they might as well feel a bit of relief and confused at the same time until they realize the opportunity that lies within the dip acting as a leverage for buying more at cheaper rates.

You seem to be having trouble talking about bitcoin in investing frameworks too, since you seem to think that there is some value in selling bitcoin with an intention of buying back cheaper.

[Omj1014]

Personal I think the difference between investing and trading is based on the mindset and income flow of the individual there is very a slim Chance that someone with low income flow to invest fully in Bitcoin because he might easily be in position where he needs money and will be tempted to touch his Bitcoin from time to time.

So investing in Bitcoin, for low income earners requires extra Amount of discipline, that's where mindset comes in.
So most time relying on quick results looks like a better plan.
On the other hand high income earners have more resources and discretionary money to for the long-term.

[Tungbulu]

I also think that it is better to hold back on part of your investment into bitcoin with a mindset that bitcoin is not guaranteed to go up... so then in that regard, there are possibilities that we will tray to make sure that we are not totally damaged if we had put all of our wealth into bitcoin and then we end up both financially and psychologically damaged forever because we created too high of expectations as if the future is guaranteed in some kind of a way.

''Bitcoin is not guaranteed to go up'', yea, and that should be a good for thought and a beach mark for all investors as to how we invest and/or high hopes we put or rely on Bitcoin to turn up positively. The thing is, the understanding and/or mentality we carry into Bitcoin investment is the big factor that controls or thinking and investment pattern, which either determines whether we go all in blindly with all our income or we do some reservations as to build ourselves properly with less hope and total dependency on Bitcoin in a short while.

Bitcoin promises financial stability in the future if you Hodl for long, no doubt, but such an investor must also put in mind that there is no GUARANTEE as to when you will reap these gains as the price swings aren't predictable. Therefore, to avoid feeling and/or been considered damaged as you pointed out earlier because the price keeps dropping, while investing, you must ensure your discretionary income is doing the work and not your entire earnings, so that alongside you can also build up back up funds for your day to day life demands. Investors can also get involved in personal businesses or get extra work to earn extra income, all these will ensure that you don't hang all your hopes in Bitcoin since its gains and continuous upwards movement is not guaranteed.

A strange and/or ironic thing is that so many guys seem to have difficulties holding more than one thought in their head at the same time, since the future is not guaranteed.

There are a lot of ways that we can make sure that we are sufficiently and/or adequately prepared for up without presuming that UP is guaranteed.

And, yeah, maybe this is a bit of an argument about linquistics rather than mindset, since there is already is a well known statement that makes sense regarding investment, and that is don't invest more than you can afford to lose, and that applies to bitcoin too.. yet so many guys come in and they want to argue that the statement needs to be changed to say something like "don't invest more than you can afford to lock up for a long time," as if there is some kind of guarantee that they are going to get their money back or experience at least some minimal amount of performance.

Sure, each of us can take a large number of actions in order to attempt to protect our investment from execution risk, yet I think at the same time, we likely either have to ride the price out or to keep buying if the BTC price goes spiraling down, and sure maybe at some point we run out of money to keep buying and yeah maybe at some point we have to take out some money so that we are more financialy prepared and psychologically prepared in case the spiraliing down scenario plays out.. yet at the same time, there are a lot of guys who turn chicken shit and they pull out portions of their bitcoin investment rather than just letting the whole thing ride and keep adding too it until it gets to a point that maybe we might start to feel that it starts to become o.k. to start to pull some value out.. otherwise it seems to me that each of us should be able to figure out ways to invest enough into bitcoin, while at the same time not investing more than we are able to lose.

Another aspect of the asymetric bet is that if bitcoin performs well, we do not necessarily need to invest a lot into bitcoin in order to still be able to profit stupendously from having had invested into it at whatever level we had chosen to invest.

There are a lot of guys who pull out a lot of their bitcoin investment when it appreciates and they proclaim that they are reallocating and rebalancing, yet I think that is a bad way of dealing with your investment into bitcoin, and it is likely better to mostly allow your winner to continue to ride rather than taking out money from your winner (which is likely going to be bitcoin) and put it into your losers (under the assumption that the rest of your investment portfolio had under performed bitcoin). 

So, yeah guys have to figure out their mental framework and how to deal with it, yet I doubt that changing that statement is the right mental framework rather than the original statement which is don't invest any more than you are willing to lose, and that does not mean that any of us are investing in bitcoin and considering our bitcoin investment as if it were a shitcoin.

People sure do have different ways of diluting the meaning of “don’t invest more than you can afford to lose.” the whole essence of this principle is to keep investor’s mind grounded in reality and not to give anyone a comforting excuse to believe that market downsides ain’t real. The moment that folks begin to redefine the idea as don’t invest more than you can afford to lock away, then they automatically shift their mindset to a place where their only expectations is for Bitcoin to keep going upwards without considering the potential for the downsides, and this has its own way of removing the actual psychological and mental discipline that’s required to invest in an asset that is as volatile as Bitcoin.

It’s crucial to always acknowledge the both sides simultaneously because Bitcoin has an extraordinary asymmetric potential but potentials like we know are far from being certainty, and not many people are able to have this at the back of their minds, it’s either they allow themselves to be paralyzed by fear or filled with blind optimism which are most likely to push them into making the wrong decisions, either by taking profits or diversifying into a weaker part of their portfolio simply because it fees a lot more safer.

And the ironic thing about this situation is that, some investors at first are pretty much confident about riding on an asymmetric asset like bitcoin, but when it actually behaves like one, they start to panic and land themselves into making some mistakes that could’ve been easily avoided. Rather than allowing the strength of the investment to compound overtime, they decide to compromise by attempting to trim it, not due to strategy but out of emotional relief.

I also completely agree with you in the part that a person’s mental and financial preparedness are the main factors that helps them to withstand the pressures that comes with market fluctuations and help them keep their emotions in check, in order not to jump into impulsive decisions and actions. When folks understand their true risk tolerance level and strategically position themselves within that level, there’ll be absolutely no need to want to sell part of their assets simply because they feel like doing so. And again, the asymmetric nature of Bitcoin means that your expectations shouldn’t just be on the potential for upside. Like they’ll always say, “it’s better to hold a modest amount of bitcoin with conviction than to hold a much larger amount with fear”.

[Barikui1]

Personal I think the difference between investing and trading is based on the mindset and income flow of the individual there is very a slim Chance that someone with low income flow to invest fully in Bitcoin because he might easily be in position where he needs money and will be tempted to touch his Bitcoin from time to time.

So investing in Bitcoin, for low income earners requires extra Amount of discipline, that's where mindset comes in.

Wether you are a low income earner or and average income earner, or even if you are a rich investor, if you are not discipline or committed in your accumulation and investment, you are never going to be successful in your investment because committed and consistency is a must if you want to be successful in your Bitcoin investment, so as a low income earner, as long as you can figure out your discretionary income, then their is nothing stopping you from investing in Bitcoin since figuring out your discretionary income is the key component an investor must have in other to invest in Bitcoin.

So most time relying on quick results looks like a better plan.

It may looks like a better plan till you lose your money trying to trade the market, so my only advice to you is that don't be deceive by quick profit that may not even have a significant impact on your finances, just buy, accumulate and hold for the future, that's the only ideal way to make a fortune from your Bitcoin investment.

[barisbilgili]

Personal I think the difference between investing and trading is based on the mindset and income flow of the individual there is very a slim Chance that someone with low income flow to invest fully in Bitcoin because he might easily be in position where he needs money and will be tempted to touch his Bitcoin from time to time.

So investing in Bitcoin, for low income earners requires extra Amount of discipline, that's where mindset comes in.
So most time relying on quick results looks like a better plan.
On the other hand high income earners have more resources and discretionary money to for the long-term.

It all depends on the plan. I don't think someone with a low income can't invest in Bitcoin. As long as they only use discretionary income, I don't think their investments will be affected. However, it all comes back to their desires and planning. We also see that there are significant differences between investing and trading.

The most important thing is to avoid greed and consistently implement the plan, regardless of anything else. When the time comes, continue accumulating Bitcoin with discretionary income. I'm confident that if you do this repeatedly, you will reap the rewards in the future. It's quite easy, in my opinion.

[Joeboy]

Personal I think the difference between investing and trading is based on the mindset and income flow of the individual there is very a slim Chance that someone with low income flow to invest fully in Bitcoin because he might easily be in position where he needs money and will be tempted to touch his Bitcoin from time to time..

Do you think long term investments is only for those with high income? With the right system in place( like using small amount of discretionarybincome that you can comfortably afford to set aside, having an emergency funds, having a Do Not Sell rule, etc...), you can be a low income earner and still be able to invest in Bitcoin for long term .....So stop using income flow/ level as a determinant for the differences between investing and trading.... Low income does not prevent anyone from being a long term investor and high income doesn't automatically give someone a long term vision. Mindset and behavior is actually what separates a long term investor from short term traders

[As-Soon-As]

I can understand both parties in this case, however, I believe that it is a matter of attitude and financial discipline. Then, discretionary income is not free money to roll dice with it is the money remaining after all necessities. That is why it can be used in long-term investments such as Bitcoin, but it cannot and must not jeopardize your family or life in general. Hypothetical anticipations or assessing decisions tend to result in panic. When you invest just the amount you can responsibly devote to it and are long-term oriented, market dips are opportunities and not threats. It is all about patience, planning, and not putting your emotions in it (HODL strategy).

The HODL strategy is long-term because the key thing to consider is the size of our discretionary income for the strategy to truly work in the long term. Furthermore, any investor who has invested in Bitcoin or anything else is certainly well-prepared, as they wouldn't want to go hungry just because they're investing for the long term. And I hope that at the beginning of next year, the Bitcoin price conditions will be very different from the current conditions so that the enthusiasm of old investors can increase again, which may result in the birth of investors in Bitcoin, even though at this time there are already many new investors who are interested in buying Bitcoin.

Not only old investors but also new investors will take more opportunities, because new investors are following the DCA method to succeed. Investing in Bitcoin according to the DCA method is the ideal method, because if the Bitcoin DCA method is followed every week, then that investor will definitely reach the peak of success. And to protect his Bitcoin investment, an emergency fund will be formed, every investor will take all kinds of steps to achieve his success. However, the lower the price of Bitcoin, the more investors will take more buying opportunities, because moving forward, the future of Bitcoin will be much brighter and they will get great success by holding it for a long time.

[Razmirraz]

Snip

Do you think long term investments is only for those with high income? With the right system in place( like using small amount of discretionarybincome that you can comfortably afford to set aside, having an emergency funds, having a Do Not Sell rule, etc...), you can be a low income earner and still be able to invest in Bitcoin for long term .....So stop using income flow/ level as a determinant for the differences between investing and trading.... Low income does not prevent anyone from being a long term investor and high income doesn't automatically give someone a long term vision. Mindset and behavior is actually what separates a long term investor from short term traders

It should be emphasized that long-term investment is not only for those with high incomes because they also have no guarantee of becoming long-term investors. The most important thing to carry out a long-term plan is to have the right mindset and behavior, such as a mature plan, having an emergency fund, and not panic selling when the market goes down.
Low income is not an obstacle to implementing long-term investment plans because as long as you are able to accumulate investments consistently, are patient and have the ability to not be affected by short-term market fluctuations, then anyone can become a successful long-term investor (regardless of their income level).

[Catenaccio]

It should be emphasized that long-term investment is not only for those with high incomes because they also have no guarantee of becoming long-term investors. The most important thing to carry out a long-term plan is to have the right mindset and behavior, such as a mature plan, having an emergency fund, and not panic selling when the market goes down.
Low income is not an obstacle to implementing long-term investment plans because as long as you are able to accumulate investments consistently, are patient and have the ability to not be affected by short-term market fluctuations, then anyone can become a successful long-term investor (regardless of their income level).

There is no need of such emphasize. As DCA is an investment strategy for bitcoin accumulation with time, and everyone can use it if they have money. It's only different from how they manage their finance, life spending, emergency and risk before and during their investment practice. With bigger and smaller finance and investment capital, if two investors buy bitcoins at same prices, they will have same investment ROIs later at the same time. The difference at the end is only how much profit they get compare with each other, while ROIs are the same.

So, forget about investment capital barrier to use DCA strategy as it does not exist. Don't let that rumor restricts your DCA practice.

[Futurexxx]

Do you think long term investments is only for those with high income? With the right system in place( like using small amount of discretionarybincome that you can comfortably afford to set aside, having an emergency funds, having a Do Not Sell rule, etc...), you can be a low income earner and still be able to invest in Bitcoin for long term .....So stop using income flow/ level as a determinant for the differences between investing and trading.... Low income does not prevent anyone from being a long term investor and high income doesn't automatically give someone a long term vision. Mindset and behavior is actually what separates a long term investor from short term traders

Yes, you are right and I also share the same sentiment with you about all you said here bro, because an individual is a low income earner doesn't mean that he can't invest in Bitcoin and be successful while at it, the most important thing is if the low income earner can figure out his discretionary income to invest with.
Once he can do that, no matter how small it is, he can invest in Bitcoin on a consistent basis and accumulate a reasonable stash of Bitcoin, if he can do that for more than ten years, because with determination and resolves, their is nothing that is unachievable, the key thing he just needs is consistent accumulation and patient.

[Graph001]

Personal I think the difference between investing and trading is based on the mindset and income flow of the individual there is very a slim Chance that someone with low income flow to invest fully in Bitcoin because he might easily be in position where he needs money and will be tempted to touch his Bitcoin from time to time.

So investing in Bitcoin, for low income earners requires extra Amount of discipline, that's where mindset comes in.
So most time relying on quick results looks like a better plan.
On the other hand high income earners have more resources and discretionary money to for the long-term.

Look, I don't agree with your idea, low income is not a barrier to Bitcoin. If you can ensure proper financial management, then you can invest here even if you have a low income. There is no requirement that you have to own a large capital to invest in Bitcoin. You can start with a small amount and continue investing by managing your finances properly. If you don't have proper budgeting, you will keep taking money from your investment money for emergencies. You should understand that proper financial planning ensures your long-term investment more. It is true that if your income is high, you will have confidence, but financial management is also necessary here.

On the other hand, another thing is that trading can be more risky for people with low income. Because experience and self-control are very important for this and these never come all at once. Most people with low income who try trading, most of them suffer financial losses. Especially those who are new, they make decisions based on emotions. It would not be right to say that people with low income have discipline. Discipline is a personal skill that people can develop through practice.  You may be forgetting that profits come in the short term and then run out in the short term, they do not last long. Those who invest in Bitcoin hoping for quick profits end up disappointed. Those who have been able to be patient in investing have been rewarded. It is not possible to profit from it in the short term.

Only high income does not ensure your investment, for this you need to ensure proper financial management, otherwise even if you earn a million dollars, you will not be able to use it in the right place. Investment success comes from consistency, patience, self-control and education, it does not depend on your level of comfort.

[Shineup]

Personal I think the difference between investing and trading is based on the mindset and income flow of the individual there is very a slim Chance that someone with low income flow to invest fully in Bitcoin because he might easily be in position where he needs money and will be tempted to touch his Bitcoin from time to time.

So investing in Bitcoin, for low income earners requires extra Amount of discipline, that's where mindset comes in.
So most time relying on quick results looks like a better plan.
On the other hand high income earners have more resources and discretionary money to for the long-term.

This very part of your post among others got my attention and which I don't agree with to a reasonable length, the major difference between investing and trading is approach not mindset and income flow of the individual, trading and investing are approached differently, trading talks about for short term profit while investing has a bigger picture of what is in the long term through holding and not selling over the short term,  individual cash flow doesn't differentiate trading and investing but the approach to how you manage or use your cash flow determines if you are trading or investing, the money that can be use for trading can also be invested it all depends on what the individual want to do with his cash flow. Some one that has a low income flow can decide to trade or invest the same as those who has a higher income flow provided they both have discretionary income, is all about decision and what you want to do and not the level of your income flow. We have poor traders and rich traders the same as we have rich investors and poor investors they are all based on their level of income flow, your income doesn't determine if you are going to be a trader or an investor it is your decision.