[ANN][STD] StandardCoin - BUILT-IN EXCHANGE - Permanently Rising Rate

[flyboy665]

Only question I have is what is the configuration file for this wallet (nodes) since I can't seem to sync...

I am willing to take the risk even if it is a ponzi scheme whatever...

try these nodes:
addnode=85.3.43.4:60391
addnode=134.3.176.190:52847
addnode=101.167.59.225:62175
addnode=83.82.233.102:62096
addnode=112.81.142.180:50138

[jomay]

The earlier investor is investor A not investor 1. Investor A is the one who joined the Price Valuation Phase.
Investor 1 is just an example, he re-present for all the Initial Investors, who hold 100m STD.

You cannot describe a hypothetical "Investor 1" withdrawing his funds without explaining exactly what investment that very same person made in the first place, and how many STD they got for that investment.

The Investor 1 got his 100m STD in the Price Valuation Phase, which costs him 40 BTC.

And then 100 mil more are mined and sold for 40 btc (cause value is fixed). Using those 40 btc initial investment. Then investor 1 wants to sell back his 100mil std, which costed him 40 btc but OH WAIT no btc are left.

Not a scammer, just bad "quality" post :trollface:

Hi ghibly79,
you are incorrect regarding the 40BTC - the price guarantee does not guarantee the initial investment. In essence the investment of initial investors and other investors buying from the reserve is used to implement the guarantee of ALL investors and miners.

This coin is not a scam if the exchange and BTC reserve run by the dev is trustworthy and hopefully the BTC reserve is secured against hacking. But there are other concerns, as I have described in my original post https://asktom.cf/index.php?topic=522874.msg5908692#msg5908692 . Point 1) was addressed by the dev, but I believe the others remain.

I'm not endorsing this coin, I'm just having fun watching people struggling with math or full of greed, fanboys and all that jazz. Popcorn, please!

Point number 2: The stored STD is not just reduced, it can also be filled up by investors taking their profit, so if 90% of the stored STD are sold, the selling rate really makes no sense but if some of the investors are dumping their coins, the price will make sense.
Point number 3: AMC can not go up easily, that's why a help from multipool is very important. This pool will keep mining and increase AMC.
Point number 4: Yes, price can fall below GER if the dev is not trust worthy. Just like any exchange, when you entrust your money with them, there is a risk that they will take your money and run away, unless the income that fee generates is much more worthy for the exchange.

Well... you assume that people will actually sell using the rate offered by the "reserve exchange". I find that highly unlikely (unless there is a trust issue), because:

• if the free market price M >> GER then every trader will sell on the free market.
• if the free market price is very close to GER then a trader would buy STD, as the downside risk is almost zero. The GER works like an implicit PUT Option for the pricing of STD's, and this Option has a value >0.

In other words I doubt that anyone will sell at your exchange (at least if there is a secondary market) - unless the coin dies.

I haven't checked your update in detail, so some numbers in the following might be somewhat off, but the principle remains.
In the beginning STD's will trade between [1,2]*GER, or more generally [1,2/F]*GER where F is the fraction of the reserve left for sale. As/If the price of the coin rises the reserve will slowly be depleted. Now suppose the price rises to 10*GER, then obviously people will buy from the reserve till buying from the reserve is more expensive than 10*GER.

Hence we know that 2/F=10 and therefore F = 1/5. In other words if the price was to go up 10x then you'd have to find buyers for 80% of the reserve STD's. This is not easy.

Besides the trust/security issues I find this an interesting concept and way to increase the market cap of a coin as the demand increases.

[jomay]

Hi ghibly79,
you are incorrect regarding the 40BTC - the price guarantee does not guarantee the initial investment. In essence the investment of initial investors and other investors buying from the reserve is used to implement the guarantee of ALL investors and miners.

This coin is not a scam if the exchange and BTC reserve run by the dev is trustworthy and hopefully the BTC reserve is secured against hacking. But there are other concerns, as I have described in my original post https://asktom.cf/index.php?topic=522874.msg5908692#msg5908692 . Point 1) was addressed by the dev, but I believe the others remain.

I'm not endorsing this coin, I'm just having fun watching people struggling with math or full of greed, fanboys and all that jazz. Popcorn, please!

Nope. Let's simplify even more, pushing it to 1+1 level.

Let's say scammer op gets 15 btc from the ipo ("price evaluation phase" like he calls it). The day this coin launches I'll buy 15 btc worth of STD, thus doubling the GER, cause I doubled AMC. Then immediately sell all back right after. I'll get 30 btc, effectively stealing 15 btc out of ipo bag holders.

This is probably what op is planning to do anyway, though probably not all in one go to keep this thing running a bit more, to steal some more.

The last to sell will be left with 0 value std.

Can't make it clearer than this.

You would make a certain loss with your "system". I think you are missing that you get less STD per BTC invested as the reserve gets depleted. Work the numbers and you'll see.

If you double the AMC (AMC=the BTC reserve) right after the IPO you get half the STD reserve - which has just been cut to 100Mio STDs. So you buy 50Mio STDs for 15 BTC, whilst initial investors bought 100Mio STDs for 15 BTC. Selling immediately loses you more than 1/2 your BTC.

If I was a scam-dev creating standardcoin I would not run with the BTC after the IPO - I would wait if STD's go up in value as that naturally gets more BTC into the reserve. Once that number is high enough (like 10.000 BTC?) I'd run...
...but I believe pulling such a scam actually has a pretty bad impact on my real-live job, so no-thank-you.

[tibbyte]

Need a new version of the wallet for Windows (I have windows 7). I'm not a programmer, so I don't know what I should do to make a purse began to synchronize.

[jomay]

Hi ghibly79,
you are incorrect regarding the 40BTC - the price guarantee does not guarantee the initial investment. In essence the investment of initial investors and other investors buying from the reserve is used to implement the guarantee of ALL investors and miners.

This coin is not a scam if the exchange and BTC reserve run by the dev is trustworthy and hopefully the BTC reserve is secured against hacking. But there are other concerns, as I have described in my original post https://asktom.cf/index.php?topic=522874.msg5908692#msg5908692 . Point 1) was addressed by the dev, but I believe the others remain.

I'm not endorsing this coin, I'm just having fun watching people struggling with math or full of greed, fanboys and all that jazz. Popcorn, please!

Nope. Let's simplify even more, pushing it to 1+1 level.

Let's say scammer op gets 15 btc from the ipo ("price evaluation phase" like he calls it). The day this coin launches I'll buy 15 btc worth of STD, thus doubling the GER, cause I doubled AMC. Then immediately sell all back right after. I'll get 30 btc, effectively stealing 15 btc out of ipo bag holders.

This is probably what op is planning to do anyway, though probably not all in one go to keep this thing running a bit more, to steal some more.

The last to sell will be left with 0 value std.

Can't make it clearer than this.

You would make a certain loss with your "system". I think you are missing that you get less STD per BTC invested as the reserve gets depleted. Work the numbers and you'll see.

If you double the AMC (AMC=the BTC reserve) right after the IPO you get half the STD reserve - which has just been cut to 100Mio STDs. So you buy 50Mio STDs for 15 BTC, whilst initial investors bought 100Mio STDs for 15 BTC. Selling immediately loses you more than 1/2 your BTC.

If I was a scam-dev creating standardcoin I would not run with the BTC after the IPO - I would wait if STD's go up in value as that naturally gets more BTC into the reserve. Once that number is high enough (like 10.000 BTC?) I'd run...
...but I believe pulling such a scam actually has a pretty bad impact on my real-live job, so no-thank-you.

Mmm.... no: GER=AMC/MMS
Right after ipo, in my example, AMC=15 btc, MMS=400 mils (TOTAL money supply, as the dev stated in one of his explanations, I'll go get the link if you missed it). So GER=15/400m=3.75 satoshi (will be rounded to 4 but let's skip that). If I buy 15 btc at 3.75 satoshi I'll get whatever amount of STD (depending on how fast the GER will rise during the buying order filling, but it's irrelevant to calculate), let's say X STD.
Now GER=30/400m=7.5 satoshi. Now I sell X STD back: price CAN'T DROP by design so the same X will be worth more btc now. Not exactly double, that was an oversimplification: with the underway rising GER during your buy order you practically bought initial STD for 3.5 then some more at let's say 4 then some more at 4.5 and so on, till 7.5, gradually. When you sell back you sell ALL at 7.5 so you'll get way more, cause you'll sell back the initial increments (bought at 3.5 .... 4 ...4.5....and so on) all at 7.5 too. You'll need to know the exact function and integrate for the exact figures, but it's unnecessary and given the average level of the comments I wanted to avoid it as the pest xD
Exact numbers are unnecessary, you will get more.

You don't buy new STD at GER from the reserve. You buy new STD at the upper bound as I derived it - in fact you'd buy it at a higher rate if you buy a large(r) chunk. It was the marginal cost of an infinitesimal additional investment in STD.

There's no need to integrate here, the dev also doesn't do it. There is also no gradual selling as you describe it - all of it is sold at once and at the GER. The GER does not change during selling, as it is AMC/MMS, i.e. guaranteed for all coins, even coins that will be mined in the future.

It would be good if the dev adds some formulas to his website and his example just as I did in my posting. That way mathematically inclined people could follow his arguments way easier.

[CombatVolcano]

still .. the catch is that if everyone wants to withdraw there will be at some point no BTC to withdraw anymore.. so it´s a risky run .. who stays in longer ..make profit and can get the money out and who stays to long there

kind of like the system

I don't see any risk in the long run here since everybody can take their money out at anytime they like without affecting the GER, in other word: not affecting other investors. When somebody take their BTC out, there will be more STD for new investors, the only effect this action causes is: benefit the future investors.

the risk is .. what happens if there are no new investors comming?. then you will have STD to sell but no one to buy them back so that the system freezes

Did you know what they say about Bitcoin? What if no one want to buy Bitcoin, Litecoin, etc.. anymore? If it happens, your coins will worth nothing. Its value is 0.
StandardCoin is different, at least you know that your StandardCoin has some value even if no one want to buy it anymore. And you also know that your coin's value is rising continously.
StandardCoin is not just a coin. It's a system where your money is protected.
Gold Standard System didn't work well in the past. But Bitcoin Standard System, with helps from modern technologies, may work.

Ok let's play your game a second, just to get some fun out of this mess.
Ok, I imagine that no one want to buy some BTC any more and unfortunately the value fall to 0. STD is backed with BTC right? so?. Are you saying you backed up the coin will real money/silver/gold? Unicorn dust?

I suggest you read through the system first. If there is something unclear, I'll be glad to answer your questions.

You cute. I understand it, don't worry.

I am not saying any bad thing about Bitcoin or the cryptocurrency community. BTC in crypto world is like Gold in the real world. It has value because people believe it is.
Yes, STD is backed up by BTC, if BTC worth nothing than STD will worth nothing. Any other coins will worth nothing. The crypto currency community will collapse.

Just want to point out that this is a common fallacy. Gold is an extremely useful natural resource. The purified form is many orders more valuable than the raw mineral. It is a noble metal and definitely has actual trade value independent (of any value assigned by an authority) in the ideal theoretical "commodities-only" form on which all of the free-market and/or capitalist theories are based.

From teeth to electronics it's gold gold gold everywhere. Pure gold is very valuable for goods production.

Cryptocoins of any type are the purest possible form of fiat money. There are a few very old terms for what they are including hobo nickels and my personal favorite, funny money. We should all be very clear on at least that last point. The US dollar itself is fiat money but this is not to confuse it with a commodity like gold which has actual real world value and a tangible trade value outside of any institution.

Any comparison of gold to cryptocoins is just like finding similarities between bricks and air. Even more so! More like comparing the value of bricks and the value of daydreaming about a cool breeze.

[standardcoin]

I thought Tomatocage was a reasonable guy so I sent him a message regarding his feedback and how ghibly79 couldn't understand the system. But instead of going through the system and try to understand it, he choosed to ignore me. What a shame!

But nevermind, the system will still go on as planned.

[CombatVolcano]

I thought Tomatocage was a reasonable guy so I sent him a message regarding his feedback and how ghibly79 couldn't understand the system. But instead of going through the system and try to understand it, he choosed to ignore me. What a shame!

But nevermind, the system will still go on as planned.

Or maybe, just maybe, he understoods it perfectly just like me
It's a "possibility".

Must be a case all seasoned members here are telling it's a ponzi while jr members are defending you.

The frequency of their posts on this forum in no way speaks about the experience or intellect of the user posting. I very rarely have a reason to post here, usually just reading ann threads but read much more somewhere else. In fact I'd be more likely to believe that someone who has thousands of posts here has a fucking agenda that they feel they need to spread around and is less to be trusted than someone who rarely posts here.

Case-in-point: assholes of this forum trust-bombed standardcoin even though they likely have never, ever traded coins with that user. This is an absolute abuse of the system and is the result of assholes pushing their own agendas or ideas about things instead of using an internet forum for what it actually is fucking for. Shitheads easily turn this into a trollbox instead of a discussion forum. Everyone who un-trusted standardcoin is a fucking douchebag for the simple reason that they are abusing the intent of that system.

[BTCspoon]

Nope, number of posts doesn't necessary mean anything, but some more experience with all the frauds going on here may just give you that edge. Also Tomatocage is pretty good at spotting scammers, he showed it over a long period of time.

Beside that I provided extensive (overextensive.... given the simplicity of the problem) explanation. No need to trade coins with him, his scam isn't based on trading trust. It's a ponzi, another thing. Matematically proved ponzi.

It's like saying "hey, send me your btc, I'll give you back (1-1)*(15-45sqrt9/4^(4/3)*13-2) btc"
"but that's zero btc..."
"shut up u noob you don't understand the system"
"scammer.... -6 trust..."
"omg abusing the system"

You guys are CUTE.

Over. For real this time.

They got enough warning. If they want to try...so be it.
Some are ready to trade their common sense and integrity for the fairy money..., you and some are not, that's a good news.

[b¡tco¡n]

This is what it has come to. 

Now they can't be arsed to scam people the old fashioned way, creating a shitcoin and getting it listed on cryptsy.

Now it is just hand over your cash fools!

What next? Payment in USD$ for fairycoins, you bring the bag of cash (or hash) to OP's house!

[jomay]

..........

I buy apples.
First apple costs me 1$.
Second apple 2$.
3rd 3$.
And so on.
Last apple 10$.

Now I sell all apples back at 10$. Will I be getting more or less $ back?

And if I get more (obvious) who is paying for those extra $?

No need for formulas either, really. It's that simple....

Yes, no need for formulas, you probably don't understand them.
It's obvious you did not read through the mechanics at all, and you don't even care how it works. You could criticize obviously flawed/dangerous aspects, e.g. the centralized nature. Instead you go on rambling about sth. you don't understand.

Again, you CANNOT buy STD's at the GER - that's only possible on the secondary market if at all.

Your apples example would look more like that:
buy apples at 1$, 2$, ..., 10$ and then sell for 1.5$. Are you going to make a profit?

Think about this: a similar effect happens when you buy stocks. By buying stocks you push up the price. By your argument if you buy a lot, push up the price a lot and then sell you automatically make a profit. Believe me, this is not the case. I work in this field.

So you are saying the system calculate the new GER when executing your order, then gives you BTC/newGER in STD? In this case initial investors 100mil will be worth 2x after that (30 btc total in my example). If they now sell back, new investors are the bag holders ^^'
Last seller will be holding the bag either way you do the calculation, cause it's a Ponzi ^^'

That is closer to the true nature of the system, although you don't buy at GER, neither at oldGER nor at newGER. You buy at 2*newGER up to 10*newGER.

Your argument about bagholders actually holds for every crypto-currency. The last BTC buyer holds the bag. (if the dev is trustworthy and no hacks happen) this bag in theory has some value in terms of BTC for STD's, but that value can also be pretty small.

[CombatVolcano]

Holy shit people. A pump and dump is when you artificially inflate the price to cause others to panic-buy and then dump what you bought. If enough other people buy in you make money. If they don't then you cut even or lose or maybe lose a lot if when rising the price you cause someone else to dump. You don't magically make money just by being able to bust down the sell walls.

[jomay]

[EDIT] by the way you were right on one point, too bad this favors my thesis even more.

[...]

So investor 2 just bought 100 mil STD for 40 btc and now the GER is 20 satoshi, so he can sell them back for 100mil*20satoshi=20 btc and the value will stay like that if no new investors come, so investor 2 just INSTANTLY LOST 20 BTC (went to initial investors, practically) so I was partially wrong: THE SCAM IS EVEN MORE EVIDENT than I initially thought. OP's not even going to cover it up xD haahahaah dying laughing.

Now, isn't that interesting. You finally realize that you were wrong.

Small side remark: investor 2 did not necessarily instantly lose 20 BTC. I would expect that there is a secondary market for STD's (at cryptsy etc) and the price there will be >GER. he did not lose 20 BTC unless the secondary market immediately drops to the GER.
But yes, I've been saying since my first post that the GER (or lower bound) only guarantees a fraction of the price STD's are bought for (unless they happen to be traded at GER on the secondary market). And that the GER becomes ineffective as the price rises and the STD reserve is being depleted.

Another op paid sockpuppet in disguise. I hope you are, or go study more, you really really need.
Tired. Now bye.

I'd suggest you stop dragging discussions onto an emotional and insulting personal level if you cannot convince with intelligence and facts. That is unworthy of a 34 year old.

Take a breather, look at the facts and be objective. There's no shame admitting that you didn't understand the system in detail first - that's the way we learn! And if you cared to read my posts you'd see enough instances where I criticize this coin.

[madmartyk]

Then again there are those of us who just mined the coin, we are really out nothing but electric and what we would have gotten mining something else.  Personally I would never buy into an IPO on an altcoin.  I have seen way too many here go bad.  But I'll mine the coin and sell it back when the market opens, or it hits an exchange..

[madmartyk]

Then again there are those of us who just mined the coin, we are really out nothing but electric and what we would have gotten mining something else.  Personally I would never buy into an IPO on an altcoin.  I have seen way too many here go bad.  But I'll mine the coin and sell it back when the market opens, or it hits an exchange..

Yep. I'm just mining it. Worst I can lose is some time.

IMO all these country coins, airdrop coins and IPO coins are here just to make the DEVs money.  But that won't stop me from throwing some hashrate their way!!  But I will never throw BTC to them.  I also think it's wrong for the exchanges to let you buy votes.  Coming from Chicago where people have been buying politics forever it shouldn't bother me, but it just does...

[kache]

So, any exchange? Bittrex normally jumps on all new coins, why hasn't it jumped on this?

[standardcoin]

Then again there are those of us who just mined the coin, we are really out nothing but electric and what we would have gotten mining something else.  Personally I would never buy into an IPO on an altcoin.  I have seen way too many here go bad.  But I'll mine the coin and sell it back when the market opens, or it hits an exchange..

Yep. I'm just mining it. Worst I can lose is some time.

You should wait for the multipool and mine at it. This way you will get more STD and bring value to the coin itself.

[trdiablo]

I thought Tomatocage was a reasonable guy so I sent him a message regarding his feedback and how ghibly79 couldn't understand the system. But instead of going through the system and try to understand it, he choosed to ignore me. What a shame!

But nevermind, the system will still go on as planned.

Tomatecage is probably his lover

[gsmax27]

My wallet is out of sync. Says "No block source available ..." (129 weeks behind). Any suggestions what is wrong?

[Iced]

My wallet is out of sync. Says "No block source available ..." (129 weeks behind). Any suggestions what is wrong?

Got the same problem on the windows version and I added the nodes