Mixer restrictions

[WhyFhy]

Well this is a blow. But understandable, Not being able to talk about them in general and the consequence is being banned is a bit weird.
We don't ban or delete ponzis, obvious scams or cross reference IP's for multiple accounts. But lets put the hammer on mixers.
I guess I get it though, theymos has probably been approached about this.

[Don Pedro Dinero]

Who knows, maybe promoting gambling that uses Bitcoin deposits is next in line to be banned?

Or casinos that allow you to bet a single satoshi without having done a KYC beforehand, as is the case with fiat casinos. Crypto gambling in one form or another is next in line. Just look at how it has evolved: in the beginning it was all unlicensed casinos with no KYC, now they have rubbish licenses from Curacao or a similar place and almost all of them have some form of KYC. It's clear where the evolution is going.

[yenerbatmaz]

I don't anticipate the need for major new restrictions in the next couple of years, but it could indeed happen. Maybe Bitcoin will be banned in the US someday, and then I'll have to either shut down asktom.cf or find a way of moving it to some remaining territory of freedom in the world. That's the problem with centralized forums. I wish that more work was being done on creating decentralized, uncensorable, but also usable forums. I would love nothing more than to be able to shut down asktom.cf due to some decentralized solution making it obsolete. Find me a 501(c)(3) nonprofit working on this, and I'll donate to it.

You are one of the weakest actors I've ever encountered in crypto, can you tell the story of how Satoshi entrusted this forum to you ? Is this because you are a tepid "yes man" akin to a passive AI ?..

If you are afraid US government might shut down Bitcointalk, move to servers where US has no jurisdiction, if you are concerned about your personal safety, officially "resign" as forum admin, and hand it over to an anonymous entity.

Caving into corrupt government pressure, curbing decentralization and privacy, is the very antithesis of why crypto assets emerged in the first place.

Have you ever stood up for anything in your life, what exactly do you stand for, if all you do is agree with all government orders and regulations, no matter how broken and corrupt they might be, sometimes even before they are served to you, just out of pure fear and apprehension...

Shame on you @theymos, you have sunk this forum to a new low with this subservient behavior.

In any case, forum views and engagements have been on an undeniable decline since many years, without signature incentives, I predict many intellectual people simply won't be bothered to even post here anymore, as only a handful of people are checking to read their msgs in the first place, thanks to your provably ineffectual management over the years. Congrats bro...

[Woodie]

Just thinking outside the box...

Considering the forum has a name to it for the person managing it in general, what would happen if this was transferred to a non US citizen to manage

the domain and all which would make it technically outside the jurisdiction of the US government, would this rescind this decision of mixers being banned?

[dkbit98]

I believe you are reading into it way too literally. All I see is that it's about mixers, which is a specific service as per the OP.

Maybe, I could be wrong, but remember this talk we had, and let's see what is going to happen in few months.

Isn't that similar to being allowed to discuss the effects of drugs, but not where to buy them?

Difference is that nowhere in the rules you can find that we can't speak about drugs, and that is not the case here with mixers.

[Synchronice]

But it does seem a bit like Theymos is jumping the gun on this. Advertising ban, I understand. But merely talking about specific mixers is not allowed? What is this, China?

Is it legal on any website to talk not about darknets but about specific vendors? No, right? That's the case. It might be okay to talk about specific mixers but mixer owners will abuse topics, they may bump and post many posts to keep ann thread alive and when bitcointalk is the only website where people actively discuss about mixers, this can become a reason of closing this website down. Theymos tried to allow maximum freedom as long as possible but there was a red line crossed, time to step back and don't cross the line.

Government 1:0 Bitcoin community

theymos what next? Non-KYC casinos and DEX Exchanges getting the hammer soon? Because the government do not have control over them?

If we start giving in to every government request and start opposing Decentralisation and privacy on a Bitcoin forum, everything Satoshi established and ideology would be for naught.

And what do you have to offer? Are you responsible that this forum won't shut down and Theymos won't have legal issues? Are you a guarantor? Go outside, start a riot, let's try!

There is a high chance that account FIODNederland is legit because: The account was created 2.5 hours before fiod.nl published this article, and posted about it 6 minutes after publication. [Quote from archived post, posted by LoyceV]

[hopenotlate]

There is a high chance that account FIODNederland is legit because: The account was created 2.5 hours before fiod.nl published this article, and posted about it 6 minutes after publication. [Quote from archived post, posted by LoyceV]

and theymos cashed their copper membership fee 

[Bitcoin SV]

I don't give a damn what happens to your mixers. I think it’s also necessary to block all signature companies - then the DT system will be cleared of parasites

[mindrust]

I don't know a casino that's completely KYC free anymore. freebitco.in used to be one but they even get to them so, they will indeed ask for your papers when the gov wants it from them. Mixers on the other hand weren't doing any KYC for the obvious reasons. Casinos will survive this mess probably since it is not really different than selling domains online... They sell entertainment. If the casinos also go down, then no legitimate business can sell any products for bitcoins... and just like that crypto dies.

[Lafu]

Who knows, maybe promoting gambling that uses Bitcoin deposits is next in line to be banned? As things turned out, maybe we will have discussions in codes, so we will have to come up with code words for mixers, Bitcoin, transactions, mining...

I dont think so that this will be happend or coming but yeah who knows.
Discussions about Mixers as far i understand it right is allowed , just not write links and where you can use them.

There is a high chance that account FIODNederland is legit because: The account was created 2.5 hours before fiod.nl published this article, and posted about it 6 minutes after publication.

I guess that the FIOD have known that already longer what they will be doing , and dont know if that Account is legit or not.
So as long that there is not a notice on there official Website that this Account belongs to them i have my doubts.

[Bitcoin SV]

Are you all saw now that how much this forum is decentralized?  

[virasog]

Government 1:0 Bitcoin community

The game isn't over yet. The first goal by the government does not mean that they have won the match. We have plenty of time to come back and beat the Government

theymos what next? Non-KYC casinos and DEX Exchanges getting the hammer soon? Because the government do not have control over them?

It's bitcoin as told by theymos already.

Maybe Bitcoin will be banned in the US someday, and then I'll have to either shut down asktom.cf or find a way of moving it to some remaining territory of freedom in the world. That's the problem with centralized forums.

[satscraper]

"KYC" and "mixers" in the same sentence makes it sound like an oxymoron.

Agreed.

There is a  mixing technique which is 100% KYC- free, namely JoinMarket.

This is in fact a decentralized mixer that works on the maker-taker principle. Makers provide liquidity for mixing while takers consume it.

One can act as both a maker and a taker at the same time, and earn money.

Commissions depend on the filling of the order book and market conditions.

A good interface for JoinMarket is  Jam ..

Current order book:

[Rikafip]

3. The service does not collect KYC-type info from all users.

So what's next?
Are you going to ask all members to perform KYC on bitcointalk?  
There are plenty of legit websites you can use without kyc, virtual cards, vpn services, casinos, etc.

I don't know if I misunderstood him, but he said that's just one of the requirements when deciding whether something is mixer and that all 3 have to be met, meaning webiste not collecting KYC info and not meeting one of those two criteria won't be considered mixer, therefore no problem. At least for now, but the way things are developing it makes you wonder how long it will take before that changes too and other services that don't ask for KYC get prohibited too.  

Are you all saw now that how much this forum is decentralized?  

Calm your tits, no one that knows how forums work thought that bitcointalk is decentralized.


Just the other day after what has happened with Sinbad I speculated on our local board that theymos might ban mixer campaigns all together if this practice of mixers getting busted continues but I didn't expect him to act on it so fast. It sucks big time, but it is what it is.

[Faisal2202]

I read almost every reply till now on this thread and agreed with this decision, Let's face the dark night to see another shining morning. Ups and downs will always be there in our life (bitcointalk) Well, I am still hoping for them to be continued (only the ones which are not ML) but it is what it is and now we have to face the night.

And another thing, what exactly was the meaning of last line of theymos, that platforms providing privacy services along with other features are allowed here? That's why icopress said this?

In case anyone missed it:   https://asktom.cf/index.php?topic=5476162.0

Cheers, everyone.  It was fun while it lasted.  My sincere thanks to icopress and UniJoin (soon to be redacted, I assume).

Yes, I hope UniJoin will add a non-custodial wallet soon. 

Just asking.

[mindrust]

There is a high chance that account FIODNederland is legit because: The account was created 2.5 hours before fiod.nl published this article, and posted about it 6 minutes after publication. [Quote from archived post, posted by LoyceV]

They probably paid the membership fee to post that damn pic lmao

Otherwise they'd look like noobs  

Another thing is, Vod might be right. (he specifically said that this community is being observed for a long time)  The Feds are among us

At this point the forum may not survive for long just sayin

  This community has been under the radar for quit a while, and I know places (like stake.com and nonakip's employer) are going to be taken down by the criminal investigation that follows.

R.I.P stake.com is next.

[digaran]

Are you all saw now that how much this forum is decentralized?  

Yeah, now do you have an alternative to offer or you know only how to fork a coin and scam people without actually spending anything of your own?  I guess you lack originality in every area, you don't even have a forum, you are leeching on this one.
Everyone has to start from somewhere, you betrayed Bitcoin by forking, scamming people, and theymos is about to betray Bitcoin's community by being a good boy.🤐

[stompix]

There is a  mixing technique which is 100% KYC- free, namely <snip>

Friendly reminder that talking about this unlawful criminal terrorist immoral service will be banned from Jan 1st, so my advice would be reconsider encouraging criminal genocidal nefarious behaviors on this peaceful forum and limit yourself to gambling, drugs and community friendly topics  like:
God smiles when Americans die, 2(now 3) more U.S. mass shootings

LE:
Oh F***, I forgot, is sarcasm still allowed?

[shahzadafzal]

And another thing, what exactly was the meaning of last line of theymos, that platforms providing privacy services along with other features are allowed here? That's why icopress said this?

In case anyone missed it:   https://asktom.cf/index.php?topic=5476162.0

Cheers, everyone.  It was fun while it lasted.  My sincere thanks to icopress and UniJoin (soon to be redacted, I assume).

Yes, I hope UniJoin will add a non-custodial wallet soon.  

Just asking.

Well I was also wondering on this specially coin-join because as far as I know CoinJoin is also a privacy-enhancing technique. It combines multiple payments from different sources or users into a single transaction, right? which like mixers also makes it harder to trace the origin and destination of each coin.

However Non-custodial wallets are different, in non-custodial wallets you have full control and ownership of your private keys. Like hardware wallets or a software wallet like Electrum.

[DYING_S0UL]

Guys, I had a small confusion. Can anyone give some clarity to it.

As theymos stated mixers and mixing related things will be banned after December. And if anyone try to advertise or talk about it might also be banned (as far as I understood).

So suppose if I say specifically, "I was part of mixtum signature campaign, but after the ban of sinbad I had to move on to different campaign".

Will it get me banned? (Since I indirectly, mentioned a mixer service)