Do you think Mr. President is right on this?

[Pablo-wood]

 Both sides have suffered losses, but Ukraine has borne the greater burden. From my stand point the Ukrainian haven't just lost soldiers; they have also lost countless civilians, immigrants, homes, land, and families. While the president may have his reasons for his speech, if it is intended as a mechanism to end the war, its effectiveness remains uncertain.

[franky1]

you might want to write the entire quote into your post

anyways. that land was not russian..
the battle is due to ukraine wanting to join the EU and thus NATO. but russia fears that where ukraine was the buffer land separating russia from most of the EU. that if ukraine joins EU there is no buffer.. and so he wants to carve out a piece of ukraines land via bombs and death to create a new no mans land buffer

russia, if truly afraid of eu neighbours, could peacefully and cheaply just compensate his own populous on russias western side to move X00km east and carve off a no mans land of his own on the russian side. with no death or destruction.. russia certainly has enough spare land to do this.

[Dunamisx]

This is not a time for us to join in debating whether on which party suffer on losses more than the other, what we hope for now is peace, for everything to return back to normalcy, the world leaders on countless attempts have made their stance towards settling it, but I think it's something beyond they could just interfere on, if Trump could just make his way in, then we anticipate to see the war ending by his influence and not to stir on any continuation.

[Fiatless]

Both sides have suffered losses, but Ukraine has borne the greater burden. From my stand point the Ukrainian haven't just lost soldiers; they have also lost countless civilians, immigrants, homes, land, and families. While the president may have his reasons for his speech, if it is intended as a mechanism to end the war, its effectiveness remains uncertain.

Ukraine and its European allies are powerless without the US. Trump has decided to please his friend Putin. Ukraine have no other option that to accept a US-Russia tailored deal or continue fighting. And without the support of the US, Ukraine is doomed to fail. Sadly, Ukraine is becoming the loser.

[coolcoinz]

you might want to write the entire quote into your post

anyways. that land was not russian..
the battle is due to ukraine wanting to join the EU and thus NATO. but russia fears that where ukraine was the buffer land separating russia from most of the EU. that if ukraine joins EU there is no buffer.. and so he wants to carve out a piece of ukraines land via bombs and death to create a new no mans land buffer

russia, if truly afraid of eu neighbours, could peacefully and cheaply just compensate his own populous on russias western side to move X00km east and carve off a no mans land of his own on the russian side. with no death or destruction.. russia certainly has enough spare land to do this.

That's just a bullshit claim by Russians. How is Ukraine separating Russia from the EU if Russians border Poland in the North?

Ukraine is a sovereign nation and has the right to do what it wants with its territory. If it wants to build a power plant, it can, if it wants to join a pact, it can. Russia along with the US and the UK guaranteed Ukraine that freedom when they all signed a nuclear treaty in 94. Ukraine gave up nukes and now we all know that it was a mistake because nukes would have saved lives in this scenario. Putin would not dare to start an all out war if Ukraine had a few strategic warheads ready to launch.

[LTU_btc]

I don'nt like Trump stance at all. It looks that he is implying that both Ukraine and Russia is equally responsible for this war. Like it's not that Russia is agressor that invaded another country. Peace negotiations didn't even started but Trump is already giving advantage for Russia.

This is not a time for us to join in debating whether on which party suffer on losses more than the other, what we hope for now is peace, for everything to return back to normalcy, the world leaders on countless attempts have made their stance towards settling it, but I think it's something beyond they could just interfere on, if Trump could just make his way in, then we anticipate to see the war ending by his influence and not to stir on any continuation.

In short term peace is good thing, but in longer term it could lead to another war. If this time they will show that Russia can do what they're doing now without any serious consequences, then what will stop them from starting another conflict in future again? We already saw that things like Budapest memorandum, Minsk agreement is pointless.

[BADecker]

you might want to write the entire quote into your post

anyways. that land was not russian..
the battle is due to ukraine wanting to join the EU and thus NATO. but russia fears that where ukraine was the buffer land separating russia from most of the EU. that if ukraine joins EU there is no buffer.. and so he wants to carve out a piece of ukraines land via bombs and death to create a new no mans land buffer

russia, if truly afraid of eu neighbours, could peacefully and cheaply just compensate his own populous on russias western side to move X00km east and carve off a no mans land of his own on the russian side. with no death or destruction.. russia certainly has enough spare land to do this.

However, Russian/Ukraine land change hands completely or in part many times over the last several hundred years... especially after the Jews started taking control ages ago.

[Cryptohygenic]

Both sides have suffered losses, but Ukraine has borne the greater burden. From my stand point the Ukrainian haven't just lost soldiers; they have also lost countless civilians, immigrants, homes, land, and families. While the president may have his reasons for his speech, if it is intended as a mechanism to end the war, its effectiveness remains uncertain.

 Bringing to account what effect damage the war has caused should ignite regrets why why war in the first place and then take a seat back and get questioned about accepting for dominance and testing power possessions while lives and properties are being lost in the process.
I don't know the intention of the Ukraine president towards his emphasis on the move to end the war but hope it get to an end because Russia as what defensive grounds it has acquired long ago will not hands up when Ukraine is still pulling the trigger. So in plus and minus it would be a good decision of him taking the bold step to end the war.
However, submission is not weakness which I know. The case of this war does not only affects the both region but has also brought about global economy inflation.

[BADecker]

Many of the intelligent Ukrainians tried to stop it thru their vote over a decade ago. The CIA under its own authority pushed Ukraine thru election fraud to do what Ukraine did. Millions of the intelligent Ukrainians, seeing what was happening, fled out of Ukraine... temporarily. What we have left in Ukraine is people too poor to flee, or people who were in favor of the war... and dead people.

Mistakes exist all over the place >>> Zelensky. Sometimes you get caught up in a mistake without really wanting to. The reality in this mistake is that Putin won, and Trump is trying to smooth things over for the Ukrainians. But it will cost the NOW Ukraine either way, as much as it cost them in the past... except for more dying in the future, maybe.

Ukraine, you lost. Simple as that. You will have to obey your new leaders to keep from losing more.


Is Z really gone as the video in https://asktom.cf/index.php?topic=5382794.msg65076252#msg65076252 suggests?


 

[DeathAngel]

I think that the war needs to end & Ukraine will never win without a constant flood of money from other countries. Zelensky is haemorrhaging billions & billions & billions of $ that are being fee to him. Ukraine can not win that war, there needs to be a settlement & if it means conceding some territory to Russia then so be it. Too many young men & women have died on both sides. I support Trump in his efforts to end this war, regardless of whether election denying, Zelensky gets upset or not.

[Accardo]

I think that the war needs to end & Ukraine will never win without a constant flood of money from other countries. Zelensky is haemorrhaging billions & billions & billions of $ that are being fee to him. Ukraine can not win that war, there needs to be a settlement & if it means conceding some territory to Russia then so be it. Too many young men & women have died on both sides. I support Trump in his efforts to end this war, regardless of whether election denying, Zelensky gets upset or not.

On the stance of the money issued to Ukraine by the US government, Trump already mentioned that they'll pay back, through their natural resources. He blamed Biden for funding Zelensky without asking for a dime. However, in a bargain Putin is a bolder body to convince to stop the war. Ukraine appear vulnerable and would want the peace, so I'd expect that US first off get the loyalty of Russia to end the war, Ukraine isn't a problem. The war wouldn't have started, Biden didn't make a great deal during his tenure, so it's best to end the fight and killings notwithstanding the method or strategy being implemented to get it done.

[Ucy]

The people whom the land belongs to are more important than the land. They ought to be more interested in them and their well-being. They have been fighting for independence, and their reason for fighting is reasonable.They were cheated, mistreated and seriously attacked even before Russia intervened. And those who did this are unwilling to change. They are more interesting in weakening Russia and her influence.
By the way, the former ukrainians are more related to Russia, but their enemy don't seem to like that. They want them disconnected from Russia

If they say they nolonger want to be part of Ukraine then they are free to go to protect themselves and their choices. And they have to leave with what belongs to them, including the land

[Fiatless]

On the stance of the money issued to Ukraine by the US government, Trump already mentioned that they'll pay back, through their natural resources. He blamed Biden for funding Zelensky without asking for a dime. However, in a bargain Putin is a bolder body to convince to stop the war. Ukraine appear vulnerable and would want the peace, so I'd expect that US first off get the loyalty of Russia to end the war, Ukraine isn't a problem. The war wouldn't have started, Biden didn't make a great deal during his tenure, so it's best to end the fight and killings notwithstanding the method or strategy being implemented to get it done.

Volodymyr Zelenskyy failed to reach a deal with Donald Trump.  Trump wants to have access to the resources of Ukraine but Zelenskyy wants a security guarantee.  The US is not willing to give such a guarantee so Ukraine is not willing to grant them access to these rare mineral resources.  Maybe Trump had gotten a better deal from Vladimir Putin and Ukraine will have to bear the consequences. Trump just called Zelenskyya dictator because the Ukrainian said he believes Russian misinformation.

[franky1]

anyways. that land was not russian..
the battle is due to ukraine wanting to join the EU and thus NATO. but russia fears that where ukraine was the buffer land separating russia from most of the EU. that if ukraine joins EU there is no buffer.. and so he wants to carve out a piece of ukraines land via bombs and death to create a new no mans land buffer

That's just a bullshit claim by Russians. How is Ukraine separating Russia from the EU if Russians border Poland in the North?

you mean eastonia, latvia, belarus..

also in WW2 poland was allies with russia to fight against the nazi regime

after WW2 and into the 1990's poland and russia had a few skirmishes and poland switched sides..
poland from 1999-2003 then joined nato and then EU

since then russia has been on guard against the eu getting closer to russia.. and it was ukraine announcing it wanted to join EU/nato in 2014 that increased tensions where by putin didnt want EU so close to russian borders. and things escalated from there

this is not "BS claims" this is actual real world boots on the ground, documented troop movements, battles and negotiations

..
and the fight in the last 3 years is clearly over the land bordering between ukraine and russia. where ukraine cant enter the EU agreement unless it relinquishes the land and russia wont want ukraine to keep it and join eu.. so the tensions are over the sliver of land that eu+nato and putin all agree should exist as a separate buffer state imagine it as a "ukirus"(belarus2.0) to keep the sides separate

..
however if russia was truly not bull shitting about wanting a peace deal. russia could give up its land*.. though russia will and has said because russia was not the one trying to change from sovereign to state, russia shouldnt give up anything. and how its ukraine that due to wanting to join EU, it was ukraine that triggered the heightened tensions

*putin and trump cant do any land dispute deals and territory change deals of ukraine land without ukraine at the table. the only deal trump and putin can do is a territory  change of russian land where russia give up some of its land to become a no-mans-land buffer so that russia and eu dont rub shoulders any closer than already(poland<>belarus).

[BADecker]

^^^ Or the world could just change their maps to show the Black Sea Corridor as part of Russia.

[letteredhub]

Zelensky a pun in a chess game. After all the loss now Russia has to be given the trophy on a platter by the very country that was backing Zelensky making him to see no reason to go for a round table talk with Putin from the start. We all know who got the highest level of damage in the war but that's not what Trump thinks..

Reading the handwriting on the wall. Donald Trump interest and that of Zelensky doesn't align anymore than it is with Putin.  

[nagaechka]

Trump started talking nonsense, as if he didn't care about anyone.

[Hydrach]

Putin is Trump's main opponent, so Trump won't let him be the leader. This is a "business".

[Cryptohygenic]

Putin is Trump's main opponent, so Trump won't let him be the leader. This is a "business".

If you call that a business then be aware about the dirty games being a traditional activities in politics.
They will always compromise their integrities of good services for selfishness interests.
So as you said, if it's a business then they can always put their differences aside and get on that junk as colleagues in the main time while their goals are achieved.
So don't get it twisted because the both chef's are seriously cooking what we don't know what will be served for breakfast.

[BADecker]

Whatever happens to Ukraine and its people, "Might does not make right, but might DOES make what exists."