E-Cash Concerns

[WillyAp]

Sweden and Norway are the forerunners when it comes to cashless societies.
They don't feel that comfy in face of the rising threat of cyber insecurity.

What that point not raised in the decision making circles? Wonderment it causes.

Sweden is not the only Nordic country backpedalling on plans for a cashless society. Last year Norway, which has a popular equivalent to Swish called Vipps MobilePay, brought in legislation that means retailers can be fined or sanctioned if they will not accept cash. The government has also recommended that citizens “keep some cash on hand due to the vulnerabilities of digital payment solutions to cyber-attacks”.

Norway’s former justice and emergencies minister Emilie Mehl put it in clear terms: “If no one pays with cash and no one accepts cash, cash will no longer be a real emergency solution once the crisis is upon us.”

Ultimately, when it comes to emergency planning, the world’s two most cashless societies are still banking on cash.

The entire article rises the point in a rather smallish proportion.



https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/mar/16/sweden-cash-digital-payments-electronic-banking-security

[takuma sato]

Young people, specially in these northern countries, have no concept of financial privacy, so they don't even think about the implications of not having any way to pay off the grid. They just think how convenient it is to pay with their phones (they don't even carry debit cards, it's just paying contactless with their phones). So basically, there is no demand for financial privacy, and thus no demand for cash, which is why these countries will be the first ones to ban all cash. They are just waiting for the old people to be gone to get their agenda in full motion, and nobody will be able to pay with cash. Southern EU countries seem to be more resistant to this war on cash, so what will happen is that they will ban cash from the higher amounts and they will slowly ban all the way down to 0. This is what is going on already, since payments exceeding certain quantities are banned, and so you don't realize and one day they go from 5000, to 1000, to 0 and you cannot pay with cash anymore. The good news with this is that BTC will be the only way to have any financial privacy and then you may see an actual usage of BTC as cash.

[NotATether]

It seems to me that the European Union countries have way too many payment methods at hand which they want people to use for paying for stuff with. And when I say this I mean there's about 5-10 of them.

It's almost like I the USA how there's PayPal/ Venmo / Zelle / Cash App but most of these are not forced on you, besides PayPal I guess.

[DrBeer]

Sweden and Norway are the forerunners when it comes to cashless societies.
They don't feel that comfy in face of the rising threat of cyber insecurity.

What that point not raised in the decision making circles? Wonderment it causes.

Sweden is not the only Nordic country backpedalling on plans for a cashless society. Last year Norway, which has a popular equivalent to Swish called Vipps MobilePay, brought in legislation that means retailers can be fined or sanctioned if they will not accept cash. The government has also recommended that citizens “keep some cash on hand due to the vulnerabilities of digital payment solutions to cyber-attacks”.

Norway’s former justice and emergencies minister Emilie Mehl put it in clear terms: “If no one pays with cash and no one accepts cash, cash will no longer be a real emergency solution once the crisis is upon us.”

Ultimately, when it comes to emergency planning, the world’s two most cashless societies are still banking on cash.

The entire article rises the point in a rather smallish proportion.



https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/mar/16/sweden-cash-digital-payments-electronic-banking-security

Any high-tech solutions have one common drawback - they are only workable in a “civilized environment”. Since they provide services when other “benefits of civilization” are available, and they require a significant number of certain conditions for their functioning.
So digital money - there is to consider a certain post-apocalyptic scenario, where there is no internet, no electricity - there will be no electronic money or ... cryptocurrencies !

[boyptc]

Before, many are enthusiastic about cashless society and now we're going back. I think that's why there is no need to completely remove paper money.

The good news with this is that BTC will be the only way to have any financial privacy and then you may see an actual usage of BTC as cash.

Even if we tell them that.

They have closed ears to anything that's related to BTC and even if it will be a better option, they won't just do it as how we're enthusiastic about it because of its decentralized nature and they'll yell about it being used for illegal transactions.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

OP, just FYI you might want to consider clarifying the title of this thread (or maybe it's just me), because when I saw "E-Cash" I immediately thought of XEC which isn't exactly the most popular shitcoin in the world, but it's almost in the top 100 out of thousands in existence.

As far as cashless societies go, I just had a conversation with a friend about that two days ago.  I said what I'd written here at least a few times--governments might well want to do away with physical money altogether for myriad reasons, but the average person isn't going to be putting up much resistance anytime soon.  I see everybody paying for stuff with their phones or credit/debit cards, and they're happy doing so.  And why not?  It's easy and you don't have to touch paper money that's probably been rolled up to sniff cocaine or shoved down a stripper's thong (or worse).  So the way I see it, cashless societies are inevitable; it's just a question of when, not if. 

IMO it'd be a mistake if cash were to be eliminated entirely instead of being allowed to exist alongside digital payment methods, but fortunately for me at least I doubt that'll happen in my lifetime.

[kotajikikox]

This honestly confuses me. This is being made more complicated than it has to be.

I do not think cash should be banned to achieve a cashless society. In my country, e-cash or e-wallets have gotten popular over the years that merchants and businessmen had no other choice but to include it in their payment methods. But it does not mean that they would not accept paper cash. If they wanted to store the money digitally, they can do it themselves after the customer has given it to them. Customers should be given an option and eventually they would rather not bring paper cash and instead go for digital cash.

[Solosanz]

This honestly confuses me. This is being made more complicated than it has to be.

I do not think cash should be banned to achieve a cashless society. In my country, e-cash or e-wallets have gotten popular over the years that merchants and businessmen had no other choice but to include it in their payment methods. But it does not mean that they would not accept paper cash. If they wanted to store the money digitally, they can do it themselves after the customer has given it to them. Customers should be given an option and eventually they would rather not bring paper cash and instead go for digital cash.

If they still allow cash, cashless society will never ever achieved because people who prefer to cash will stick with cash, example myself.

I use both, but I use cash mostly, like 90% in cash and 10% in e-cash.

If I use e-cash everything would be recorded and my data can be sold, unlike using cash, I always use random name, random location or random phone number when the cashier ask it.

The concern of e-cash are: they charge fees per each transaction, they can sell our data and there could be bug or problem with the apps.

[Mia Chloe]

Sweden and Norway are the forerunners when it comes to cashless societies.They don't feel that comfy in face of the rising threat of cyber insecurity. What that point not raised in the decision making circles? Wonderment it causes.

I just glanced through this article about Sweden and Norway concerning this cashless society stuff and I'm not really surprised. They're actually backpedaling on their plans because of the rising threat of cyber insecurity. I mean it makes sense but it's surprising that they didn't consider this risk more seriously before pushing for a cashless society.

Now, Norway's government is even recommending that citizens keep some cash on hand just in case. And get this, it's like retailers can be fined if they don't accept cash. It's like they're saying "We love digital payments but let's not forget about the importance of cash in an emergency." It's a wake-up call really. We need to find a balance between convenience and security.

[shinratensei_]

This honestly confuses me. This is being made more complicated than it has to be.

I do not think cash should be banned to achieve a cashless society. In my country, e-cash or e-wallets have gotten popular over the years that merchants and businessmen had no other choice but to include it in their payment methods. But it does not mean that they would not accept paper cash. If they wanted to store the money digitally, they can do it themselves after the customer has given it to them. Customers should be given an option and eventually they would rather not bring paper cash and instead go for digital cash.

imho, seems like some countries just want to retain cash use case for the sake of contingency, and this article speaks exactly that.
they are encouraging the use of cash and I also think that cash and e-cash can be used altogether, but for cash to still be used by general population, government also need to think of solution to make cash more versatile.
like basically the reason most of youngsters nowaday use e-cash is because it's just convenient.

but I also think that the worry about cash not being a real emergency solution to a crisis as just paranoia, because cash at the end of the day is just paper and government can literally make currency out of anyhting.

[WillyAp]

I think the drive for a cashless society comes with the desire to eradicate crime or make it harder to even become a criminal.
The thought pushed away all other concerns.

Now confronted with the possibility of war, the apolitical scenarios come to mind. All of sudden. In war grey matter works better.

[Spaceman1000$]

It seems to me that the European Union countries have way too many payment methods at hand which they want people to use for paying for stuff with. And when I say this I mean there's about 5-10 of them.

It's almost like I the USA how there's PayPal/ Venmo / Zelle / Cash App but most of these are not forced on you, besides PayPal I guess.

Outside the fact that there is seemingly a war situation that might not really occur in Europe, there is always a need to have cash in hand because most times internet services could disappoint, so I enjoy the fact that for US they are not forcing it on you and this is the same approach I think Norway and Sweden should be moving towards, you can have a cashless policy limiting the amount of cash individuals withdraw in a particular period, I understand that the cashless policy is to easily monitor financial transactions and easy tax deductions but most times you still need the availability of cash in circulation.

[BenCodie]

Nice post, I wasn't aware that these countries were double-taking on their decision to go cashless. It's a good sign that they're backpedaling and recognizing threats over the goal for complete control. Hopefully while they are looking at how to avert cybersecurity threats, they pay closer attention to Bitcoin and blockchain (ideally, Bitcoin) and focus on educating their citizens on how to remain safe (as individual attacks are threats as well as nation attacks).

[pinggoki]

I think the drive for a cashless society comes with the desire to eradicate crime or make it harder to even become a criminal.
The thought pushed away all other concerns.

Now confronted with the possibility of war, the apolitical scenarios come to mind. All of sudden. In war grey matter works better.

I mean that can be the primary concern that's been the reason why cashless society is being pushed but I think that it's more on the resources side of things more than anything, less people using physical currency means less paper money or metal currency is being minted which means that we can use the unused material for minting on more things that don't involve money especially metals, there's also the fact that there's more convenience on that part compared to cash, cash is cumbersome to carry around compared to a credit card and I think the crime prevention concern is valid, less people doing crime is a plus to me.

The only problem with cashless society is that our equipments and implementations of the instruments aren't that perfect yet, for such dreams, we got to make sure that fraudulence isn't going to be a problem in a cashless society because if we can't fix that, we can't have people be on board with the idea because risks are still present.

[avikz]

The great of cyber attacks will always be there in every online services. E-cash is no exception. But in a centralized system, it is easy to manage. I am sure these countries are not planning to make it decentralized! Also there are many renowned cyber security companies who can make themselves available to prevent majority of the attacks.

Achieving 100% cashless society is not possible and also not advisable. But it's certainly possible to reduce ancillary costs related to cash through promoting e-cash.

[boyptc]

I think the drive for a cashless society comes with the desire to eradicate crime or make it harder to even become a criminal.
The thought pushed away all other concerns.

There's always the gray area that should be seen into that concern. While the progress and futuristic approach of being cashless has been in the books for decades.

But now, it's starting to materialize on how useful it is but some problems that have to appear needs to be dealt as well. We will see on how they'll lessen the risks that it has to be with its usefulness.

[Smartprofit]

In my opinion, non-cash money is more convenient than cash. Previously, I always carried several paper bills and metal change with me. I practiced cash payments with sellers of goods, works and services.

However, now I usually use non-cash payments. In addition, this allows you to receive financial benefits. Firstly, you can get cashback, and secondly, an increased rate on the deposit, which is also very important.

However, only cash payments are anonymous and confidential. People in the modern world forget about anonymity and confidentiality in favor of convenience. This is not very good.

However, this trend is difficult to break. And in the future, people will increasingly refuse cash.

[WillyAp]

However, this trend is difficult to break. And in the future, people will increasingly refuse cash.

No doubt and even you will see the downsides ones there is no more electricity, No or hardly any wifi.
Cash is your friend, convenience is is not your friend in hard times.

[Fortify]

Sweden and Norway are the forerunners when it comes to cashless societies.
They don't feel that comfy in face of the rising threat of cyber insecurity.

What that point not raised in the decision making circles? Wonderment it causes.

Sweden is not the only Nordic country backpedalling on plans for a cashless society. Last year Norway, which has a popular equivalent to Swish called Vipps MobilePay, brought in legislation that means retailers can be fined or sanctioned if they will not accept cash. The government has also recommended that citizens “keep some cash on hand due to the vulnerabilities of digital payment solutions to cyber-attacks”.

Norway’s former justice and emergencies minister Emilie Mehl put it in clear terms: “If no one pays with cash and no one accepts cash, cash will no longer be a real emergency solution once the crisis is upon us.”

Ultimately, when it comes to emergency planning, the world’s two most cashless societies are still banking on cash.

The entire article rises the point in a rather smallish proportion.

We should be careful about moving too quickly towards a digital cash only society, because there are some segments of society that still rely on it heavily - the elderly, the less fortunate like the homeless and even children who might not be allowed accounts due to age limits. There must be a fair middle ground with potentially a path towards a fully cashless society, but it must allow every citizen to purchase items without hassle. I can understand why certain segments of the government are pushing back against businesses who unilaterally refuse to accept customers who want to pay in cash, they might seem progressive but they have to keep it fair and not discriminate against different groups.

[Mr Reporter]

It seems to me that the European Union countries have way too many payment methods at hand which they want people to use for paying for stuff with. And when I say this I mean there's about 5-10 of them.

It's almost like I the USA how there's PayPal/ Venmo / Zelle / Cash App but most of these are not forced on you, besides PayPal I guess.

Outside the fact that there is seemingly a war situation that might not really occur in Europe, there is always a need to have cash in hand because most times internet services could disappoint, so I enjoy the fact that for US they are not forcing it on you and this is the same approach I think Norway and Sweden should be moving towards, you can have a cashless policy limiting the amount of cash individuals withdraw in a particular period, I understand that the cashless policy is to easily monitor financial transactions and easy tax deductions but most times you still need the availability of cash in circulation.

This is an thoughtful perspective on the roles of cash in the society well you are 100%right having a cash at hand is also helpful and essential and even developing countries that have higher levels of economic growth are still dependent on cash at hand, just as you have mention unreliable to the internet service ot connectivity meant not be strong or meant be weak or it meant be life and death issue, well Northway and Sweden's are still having se reevaluation of their cashless system right now to me their plans seem to be a step in the right direction acknowledging the facts of the importance a balance between digital and cash at hand payments.