Less Regulations Coming!

[zasad@]

@zasad@. Yes, however, every inflow of funds in the ETF for bitcoin would also be a direct purchase order for bitcoin because the company behind the ETF should hold bitcoin equivalent to the investment of the buyer.

Also, the ETF holder has the choice to redeem the bitcoin from his ETF holdings. This certainly is an indirect method of buying and holding bitcoin.

You're right that ETF issuers will buy Bitcoin, but I'm not sure we can verify whose coins they are.
https://bitcointreasuries.net/
 There's a theory that they're buying their own coins, which they mined many years ago and are making billions of dollars from it. To my knowledge, no one knows who owns half of the Bitcoin and how many coins are actually lost. You often see news stories about wallets that have been inactive for 10-15 years suddenly resurfacing.

[bbc.reporter]

@zasad@. You are correct that these companies behind ETFs are not forced to buy on the exchanges or the market, they can by through over the counter services, however, inflows are still inflows because those bitcoins will be sold either in the exchanges or the market if they are not sold over the counter.

I am shaking my head that you want to imply that the ETFs are not a potential source of good inflows towards bitcoin heheheheh.

[zasad@]

@zasad@. You are correct that these companies behind ETFs are not forced to buy on the exchanges or the market, they can by through over the counter services, however, inflows are still inflows because those bitcoins will be sold either in the exchanges or the market if they are not sold over the counter.

I am shaking my head that you want to imply that the ETFs are not a potential source of good inflows towards bitcoin heheheheh.

I don't dispute that ETFs facilitate the influx of funds into the crypto market.
My point is that I don't see any clear official statistics from companies about where their coins are stored and who is responsible for them.
If you look at the stock statistics of any well-known company, you can find all the shareholders and information about the number of shares traded on the exchange. The big problem with Bitcoin is that no one knows who owns 10 million Bitcoins and how many of them are lost forever.

[bbc.reporter]

@zasad@. What type of information are you looking for? Something similar to this website? It appears this is what you want to find hehehhe.

https://www.blackrock.com/us/individual/products/333011/ishares-bitcoin-trust

In any case, these companies are regulated and they are required to give everyone these types of information. It would be headshaking if you imply that these are scams.

Also, the ETF companies usually hire Coinbase custody or Bitgo to hold the bitcoins for them.

[zasad@]

@zasad@. What type of information are you looking for? Something similar to this website? It appears this is what you want to find hehehhe.

https://www.blackrock.com/us/individual/products/333011/ishares-bitcoin-trust

In any case, these companies are regulated and they are required to give everyone these types of information. It would be headshaking if you imply that these are scams.

Also, the ETF companies usually hire Coinbase custody or Bitgo to hold the bitcoins for them.

I searched for wallets and a list of responsible custodians.
I'm not arguing with you, but what happens if the custodian experiences a technical failure or hackers steal the coins? In my classic scenario, this should end in big losses for many participants, except for companies like Blackrock.

[bbc.reporter]

@zasad@. The problem of custodians and their failures is not my concern and you always keep changing the argument heheheeh. Are you okay? You appear to be looking for mistake after mistake and changing the subject of the discussion heheheh.

In any case, you can research all of your concerns through google.com and if you are having difficulty understanding what you have researched, I can help you. You can share everything you have not understood and we can find the answer together hehehehehehh.

[zasad@]

@zasad@. The problem of custodians and their failures is not my concern and you always keep changing the argument heheheeh. Are you okay? You appear to be looking for mistake after mistake and changing the subject of the discussion heheheh.

In any case, you can research all of your concerns through google.com and if you are having difficulty understanding what you have researched, I can help you. You can share everything you have not understood and we can find the answer together hehehehehehh.

I'm trying to look at the situation from different angles. We think differently.
If your Google knows who owns the remaining 10 million bitcoins, whose owners are officially unknown, and how many are definitely lost, then I'm willing to examine your arguments.

July 4–15, 2025 — Eight Satoshi‑era wallets moved a total of ~80,000 BTC (reported by Cointelegraph, Arkham analyses).
Aggregated totals vary by source because “old/dormant” definitions differ, but published trackers show tens of thousands to ~200,000+ BTC moved from long‑dormant addresses over 2025 when summing many incidents.

[bbc.reporter]

@zasad@. Heheheh this is only making it appear that you are not listening to the arguments given to you and you are not acknowledging them. We were talking about inflows through the ETFs and how this is good. I reckon we can agree that this is good, correct? Your answers are in the posts that have already been made.

In any case, it cannot be argued. The ETFs are helping in the growth of the market of bitcoin.



the most important chart to understand bitcoin's price movement from here

bitcoin ETFs are bringing in $5-10 billion every quarter of new buying pressure into bitcoin like clockwork. absolutely no signs of slowing down

this is the unstoppable secular trend that even the "4 year cycle" cannot stop and why the cycle will break this time

2026 is going to be an up year

Source https://x.com/hongkim__/status/1975728250761715936?s=12

[zasad@]

@zasad@. Heheheh this is only making it appear that you are not listening to the arguments given to you and you are not acknowledging them. We were talking about inflows through the ETFs and how this is good. I reckon we can agree that this is good, correct? Your answers are in the posts that have already been made.

In any case, it cannot be argued. The ETFs are helping in the growth of the market of bitcoin.



the most important chart to understand bitcoin's price movement from here

bitcoin ETFs are bringing in $5-10 billion every quarter of new buying pressure into bitcoin like clockwork. absolutely no signs of slowing down

this is the unstoppable secular trend that even the "4 year cycle" cannot stop and why the cycle will break this time

2026 is going to be an up year

Source https://x.com/hongkim__/status/1975728250761715936?s=12

I agree with you, and I already wrote this.

I don't dispute that ETFs facilitate the influx of funds into the crypto market.

If we look at your chart, we see an influx of 10 billion in the 1st quarter of 2025 and the price of Bitcoin during this period fell from 104,000 to 76,000.
You cannot deny this fact, so I can assume that the trend of Bitcoin ETF inflows cannot guarantee an increase in the BTC price

[bbc.reporter]

@zasad@. This is not my chart. This is a real chart from a firm that reports the inflows and outflows. This shows us that inflows are increasing every quarter which implies that this is helping on the growth of the bitcoin market.

Also, if you have listened to my argument, I am not talking about the price. I am talking about the growth of the market through the inflows from the ETF.

If you are speculating that this will not help with the price, yes, you are correct on the short term only. Longterm this will certainly help pump the price.

[zasad@]

@zasad@. This is not my chart. This is a real chart from a firm that reports the inflows and outflows. This shows us that inflows are increasing every quarter which implies that this is helping on the growth of the bitcoin market.

Also, if you have listened to my argument, I am not talking about the price. I am talking about the growth of the market through the inflows from the ETF.

If you are speculating that this will not help with the price, yes, you are correct on the short term only. Longterm this will certainly help pump the price.

I have no doubt about your chart. In my opinion, you're confusing the concepts. In the classic sense, "growth of the crypto market" means an increase in market capitalization, but according to coingecko, market capitalization has fallen by more than 10% today.
If you call these events local corrections and are looking at a 3-5 year range, then I agree with you.
Once again, Trump, with his announcement of tariff increases against China, has sent shockwaves through global markets.

[bbc.reporter]

@zasad@. It appears that you have not tried to understand what the argument was. I am not arguing that growth of the market is not an increase in market capitalization. What I said was the inflows from the bitcoin ETFs will help in the growth of of the cryptospace market because the inflows of fiat to enter the cryptospace has expanded.

It is very headshaking that you are trying to find something wrong where there is nothing wrong by creating a wrong argument hehehehe.

[zasad@]

@zasad@. It appears that you have not tried to understand what the argument was. I am not arguing that growth of the market is not an increase in market capitalization. What I said was the inflows from the bitcoin ETFs will help in the growth of of the cryptospace market because the inflows of fiat to enter the cryptospace has expanded.

It is very headshaking that you are trying to find something wrong where there is nothing wrong by creating a wrong argument hehehehe.

I'm not trying to find errors in your post, but I'm having trouble understanding your point, and I'll explain why.

In the classical sense: "Crypto market growth is usually defined as a period of increase in the overall market capitalization of all cryptocurrencies or a significant increase in the prices of individual cryptocurrencies."
You don't need to approve this because it's a definition. If you know another definition of cryptocurrency market growth, please write it down. Otherwise, I see a contradiction between the Bitcoin ETF inflow growth chart and the cryptocurrency market capitalization chart.

[bbc.reporter]

@zasad@. You are talking about the market capitalization and how high or how low this is. I am talking about the expansion of the market, the flows, the volume and the liquidity which will become more meaningful to support the high market capitalization of bitcoin.

This is a very simple concept and this is very easy to understand. The high market capitalization of a coin would be meaningless if the market underneath this has not expanded to support the value. This is certsinly why we witness some altcoins pump 20% or dump 20% in a few hours. It does not have a very liquid and expanded  market as support. We have also witnessed this on bitcoin before on 2015-2017.

[zasad@]

@zasad@. You are talking about the market capitalization and how high or how low this is. I am talking about the expansion of the market, the flows, the volume and the liquidity which will become more meaningful to support the high market capitalization of bitcoin.

This is a very simple concept and this is very easy to understand. The high market capitalization of a coin would be meaningless if the market underneath this has not expanded to support the value. This is certsinly why we witness some altcoins pump 20% or dump 20% in a few hours. It does not have a very liquid and expanded  market as support. We have also witnessed this on bitcoin before on 2015-2017.

I need to clarify. I'm saying that cryptocurrency market growth, for me, is usually associated with an increase in overall market capitalization. Recently, the price of Bitcoin fell by more than 20%, and I don't even want to talk about the decline in altcoins. The price of some altcoins instantly dropped from a few dollars to tens of cents. The current collapse was much more painful for the crypto market than similar events in 2015-2017.

You're talking about flows, volume, and liquidity, but to be honest, these are market makers' tools. And exchanges act as market makers. That's why we recently saw a huge drop in the price of many altcoins. Market makers pulled liquidity from the market just in time
For example, ATOM on Binance

A market maker can inflate any volume on the exchange and add liquidity to the order book, but this doesn't indicate growth in the crypto market.

I hope my explanations make it clear why I disagree with your arguments.

[bbc.reporter]

@zasad@. You are not understanding what I have said. You are only describing the market capitalization which is based on the price of these coins as your source of the growth. This is headshaking because if a memecoin has pumped to $1 billion market capitalization and the liquidity of this memecoin has not increased and has stayed on $10k, would you really consider that the market for this memecoin has increased?

This is a very headshaking if this is what you are implying heheheheh.

[zasad@]

@zasad@. You are not understanding what I have said. You are only describing the market capitalization which is based on the price of these coins as your source of the growth. This is headshaking because if a memecoin has pumped to $1 billion market capitalization and the liquidity of this memecoin has not increased and has stayed on $10k, would you really consider that the market for this memecoin has increased?

This is a very headshaking if this is what you are implying heheheheh.

I suggest you not to confuse memecoin and altcoin ATOM.
https://www.coingecko.com/en/coins/cosmos-hub

Look at the statistics on this coin and liquidity; due to market makers manipulation price on the exchange dropped to 0.001 cents.

________
I'm talking about market capitalization, which is estimated by services such as coingecko. I myself can make a memcoin with a capitalization of 1 billion, but until this memecoin has a listing on well-known exchanges, liquidity, distribution among wallets, but not one service will even add this memecoin to its website and will not take into account this fake capitalization.

Hundreds of memcoins appear on the pump&fan platform every day. I’m not saying that the growth of the crypto market has begun

[bbc.reporter]

@zasad@. I suggest you do not confuse liquidity and market capitalization of any cryptcoin because it will certainly not matter if your cryptocoin has trillions in market capitalization but the liquidity is only $1 million which certainly very much implies the market is very small for this cryptocoin.

Similar to the example of your atom heheheheh. This coin has a big market capitalization compared to many cryptocoins in the cryptospace, however, it dumped to $0.001 on Binance because the liquidity for this coin is very low, the market size is very small.

[zasad@]

@zasad@. I suggest you do not confuse liquidity and market capitalization of any cryptcoin because it will certainly not matter if your cryptocoin has trillions in market capitalization but the liquidity is only $1 million which certainly very much implies the market is very small for this cryptocoin.

Similar to the example of your atom heheheheh. This coin has a big market capitalization compared to many cryptocoins in the cryptospace, however, it dumped to $0.001 on Binance because the liquidity for this coin is very low, the market size is very small.

Atom coin has no liquidity issues on other exchanges; the price has never dropped below $0.001 except for Binance.
I'll explain the entire scam on this exchange. Traders can leave their assets as collateral and trade on margin. When liquidation occurred, the exchange sold the collateral. But the exchange's market makers, being no fools, withdrew their liquidity from the order book and placed buy orders at the lowest possible price. Other traders were unable to buy, as the exchange was undergoing maintenance. As a result, the total losses of traders on the exchanges amounted to approximately 20 billion.

Using this example, I want to explain that liquidity on a centralized exchange is a fake indicator, just like trading volume. A market maker will produce any statistics you want, but during periods of sharp rise or fall, there will be no liquidity on the exchange.

[bbc.reporter]

@zasad@. I am not talking about liquidity issues, I am talking about total liquidity on each of these coins. If there is not enough liquidity to support the market capitalization then how can you say that the size of the market is based only on market capitalization?

On the argument on bitcoin ETF market, this adds more liquidity on bitcoin which expands the market and supports this. On smaller cryptocoins there is not.