U.S. prosecutors want 5 years for Samourai Wallet founders

[Z-tight]

Those who live in the US, what's the charge for helping multiple people move millions of dollars in illegal funds? I ask this because I want to understand whether 5 years sentence is a normal sentence or too low. If it's too low and prosecutors demand that, then they don't have a strong case or it's a plea deal to my mind.

The maximum sentence for operating an unlicensed money transmitting business in the U.S. is 5 years in prison. And prosecutors are pushing for the maximum sentence for Keonne Rodriguez and William Lonergan.

As I browsed the web (not being a law expert too) - it said about 20 years at maximum.. and much more in fines or twice the amount of the illicit funds.

That should be for money laundering which carries a maximum sentence of 20 years in prison. The money laundering charge and other more severe charges were dropped in the plea deal. So they are getting 5 years in prison or less.

[AmoreJaz]

Those who live in the US, what's the charge for helping multiple people move millions of dollars in illegal funds? I ask this because I want to understand whether 5 years sentence is a normal sentence or too low. If it's too low and prosecutors demand that, then they don't have a strong case or it's a plea deal to my mind.
By the way, logically, Samourai wallet founders can't be arrested and sentenced for what they are accused of because that accusation is wrong. In order for Samourai Wallet to act as a money transmitter, they should have a sufficient control over the money that's transferred. Since Samourai Wallet is a non-custodial wallet and users control their own keys, the accusation of Samourai Wallet founders for that is wrong and should be discharged.
Just my opinion, nothing else. I'm not a law expert.

Whether there is samourai wallet or not, people who want to move fiat illegally will always find a way how to do it. Do remember moving funds illegally has been done since time immemorial. So it is not new that this will happen in crypto as well. But those business owners should also know such possible repercussions especially if they are  operating in a strict country. So I would say, I am not blaming the owners here but they should have at least do their due diligence because they are holding money of their clients. Unless, they want to operate as a fly-by-night trading platform/wallet. And that means, they do not care much about their customers' funds.
 

[FortuneFollower]

Whether there is samourai wallet or not, people who want to move fiat illegally will always find a way how to do it. Do remember moving funds illegally has been done since time immemorial. So it is not new that this will happen in crypto as well.

Yep. The real deal will be whether those people will be able to outmaneuver the system or get them paid enough to do so.

[N9_Ninja]

Yeah, it’s getting harder for any project focused on privacy to survive these days.
Governments seem to treat privacy as a threat instead of a right.
Samourai was far from perfect, but it offered users real control — something we’re losing fast in crypto.

[NotATether]

Even if they didn’t actually “invite” those sanctioned groups, it’s still possible that the platform was used for money mixing since it’s open to everyone. Once it’s public and anyone can access it, the devs can’t really control who uses it.

So in that sense, yeah, they can still be charged, especially if the authorities see that the service was knowingly allowing transactions linked to sanctioned entities. That’s how governments build their case, not necessarily because the devs invited anyone, but because they didn’t prevent it.

Where is all the support I saw for Tornado Cash for these guys?

Bank of America, JP Morgan, Citibank, Capital One, loads of other regional banks and even Paypal, Cash App etc are regularly used for fraud and money laundering, but nobody really seems to care to investigate these platforms because they have a ton of lobbyists in Washington.

Maybe it's time we start funding privacy lobbyists in DC too. Playing their own game.

[FortuneFollower]

Yeah, it’s getting harder for any project focused on privacy to survive these days.
Governments seem to treat privacy as a threat instead of a right.
Samourai was far from perfect, but it offered users real control — something we’re losing fast in crypto.

Yeah. They want all of the control if they can have it, and eliminate those that are in the other camps.

[m2017]

This makes no sense to me, if this privacy thing is a problem why are they allowing zcash CEO to shill privacy coin? Right now Dash, Zcash and many others are pumping while everything else is dumping even Bitcoin.

Maybe because these coins were launched under the supervision of intelligence agencies (like in the story with the anonymous smartphone Anom) ?

Samurai did have a mixing feature if I remember correctly, maybe that's why they are after them or what? The use of mixer, can we call it privacy? If yes they have no right to go after this company, this is a display of misusing power.

Power always has more RIGHTS. And they will abuse this until they completely deprive us of privacy.

So they've abused their power once again, and how did the people react? None at all. The deprivation of privacy will continue, tacitly agreed upon.

I don't believe anything anymore in this crypto space, most of the time every steps taken is a power struggle, I pity those who still believe that crypto space is the same as the 2018 days, it's more like political driven now.

Everything changes. That's the meaning of progress (and regression). It can't be otherwise. The crypto space also can't remain unchanged, and what was relevant in 2018 will never be the same. As bitcoin's popularity and prevalence grows, the regulator's influence will be felt ever more strongly. This is inevitable.

But this is no reason to give up the right to privacy and confidentiality. I hope the creators of future services similar to Samurai Wallet realize that disclosing their identities could have extremely negative consequences for them.

[Pmalek]

The US government with its agencies don't have anything against privacy tools...as long as they have a backdoor entrance or someone they can call to get the right information on people of interest. If that is missing, then it's illegal. Samourai Wallet didn't serve Big Brother. Big Brother wasn't pleased so they have to go. It's a message to those who will come next. We did it to the Samourai developers and we will do it to you too, unless...   

[Abiky]

https://cryptonews.com/news/us-prosecutors-seek-maximum-five-year-prison-term-for-samourai-wallet-founders/

Honestly, it’s not even surprising anymore that privacy wallets and mixers like Samourai are being targeted. The U.S. prosecutors are now asking for 5 years in prison for the founders, saying their app helped move over $200M in illegal funds.

Thing is, Samourai was non-custodial, users kept their own keys. But still, the devs got charged for running an unlicensed money transfer service, just because the tool was used by people trying to stay private.

It’s kinda funny how the government keeps saying they support “financial freedom,” yet they go after anything that gives users real privacy.
At this point, it feels like if you build anything that hides transactions, you’re automatically labeled as helping criminals.

Not shocked at all, just another example of how crypto privacy is slowly being crushed.

Well, Samourai founders were convicted during the Biden administration. But Trump has been pro-crypto lately, so maybe his administration will change their minds about this? I mean, President Trump already pardoned Ross Ulbricht and CZ (two prominent figures in the crypto industry). Samourai, while being a privacy-oriented wallet solution, might get the attention of Trump and his team. If the President pardons Samourai's founders, it would most likely be a result of a deal made between both.

I hope Trump pardons Samourai's founders, as it would set a whole new precedent for privacy-preserving crypto protocols within the country. It would open new doors, further boosting innovation within the sector. The odds are slim, but anything's possible. Even without a pardon, I think 5 years jail time is manageable. Fingers crossed things turn out for the better in the long run.

[gmaxwell]

Samourai Wallet didn't serve Big Brother.

They were logging all users' xpubs.

[Pmalek]

They were logging all users' xpubs.

Apparently that wasn't enough otherwise they wouldn't be in this mess now, and looking at five years in prison and who knows how high a financial fine. Information on someone's xpubs is, as you know, privacy-infringing, but not a security threat to your bitcoin. Being able to freeze and confiscate assets is the endgame for those in power, and they will work with those who can make that a reality.

[Synchronice]

Those who live in the US, what's the charge for helping multiple people move millions of dollars in illegal funds? I ask this because I want to understand whether 5 years sentence is a normal sentence or too low. If it's too low and prosecutors demand that, then they don't have a strong case or it's a plea deal to my mind.

The maximum sentence for operating an unlicensed money transmitting business in the U.S. is 5 years in prison. And prosecutors are pushing for the maximum sentence for Keonne Rodriguez and William Lonergan.

They'll push it for maximum because as they claim, Samourai Wallet helped to move over $200M in illegal funds. This is a huge amount of money and there is definitely an issue with the law but they'll still try to convict them and make an example out of them. It will basically be a demonstration of the abuse of loopholes will be punished.

Where is all the support I saw for Tornado Cash for these guys?

Bank of America, JP Morgan, Citibank, Capital One, loads of other regional banks and even Paypal, Cash App etc are regularly used for fraud and money laundering, but nobody really seems to care to investigate these platforms because they have a ton of lobbyists in Washington.

Maybe it's time we start funding privacy lobbyists in DC too. Playing their own game.

That's how the justice works. If you have money, you can buy it and if you control money, it's all yours unless you mess up with the group and they'll try to get revenge on you, then it's a battle. Samourai Wallet founders are more or less ordinary people compared to the associated names with big banks. Samourai basically tried to mess up with big guys.