A trial that should have never existed

[GEMIN_M4]

This should have never happened in the first place, if is crazy how developers are facing trials all because they created a Bitcoin wallet that has privacy feature built in them, I am talking about samourai wallet devs who got arrested.



I am not a big FAN of trump and he hasn't been a perfect president for me so far but if he can make this happen and free these developers I will be very happy and change the way I look at Trump onward, war on privacy shouldn't be taking place, the war should be on those who don't want people to have their privacy, we deserve it.

[JiiBs]

I am not a big FAN of trump and he hasn't been a perfect president for me so far but if he can make this happen and free these developers I will be very happy and change the way I look at Trump onward, war on privacy shouldn't be taking place, the war should be on those who don't want people to have their privacy, we deserve it.

This is one of the downsides to the space as you can already see it. It’s obviously not going to stop anytime soon and just anyone could sue just any service with privacy feature at any point they feel a slight discomfort. It’s always going to seem okay though because, they often impede the process of an investigation which is why some of these services are used, to break the chain links.

[retaur]

Yeah I think there needs to be a grace period on innovations because deploying a lot of new features into wallets shouldn't be a reason for them to be prosecuted.

A lot of mixing is still traceable and thus it's quite unfair to go after the people who make it possible as crypto and blockchain generally have indelible recording history so audit trails are generatable for a long time.

[PrivacyG]

You can like a thing somebody says or does with out having to like the person too.  People seem to forget this these days.  It would be a good thing if they were pardoned but I do not believe it would help too much if pardon is the only solution.  It is only a relief for the people who are affected by the pardon itself while a clear and loud message is sent to the rest preventing others from becoming developers of Privacy solutions.

The war on Privacy has started a long time ago and it will probably get worse in time.  As I said a while ago here, I am surprised there are not many Anonymous developers yet considering the way the World is starting to treat Privacy.  Yes, this trial should have not existed.  Ross Ulbricht should have not served the long sentence either.  But again.  The pardon of Ross and the possible pardon of Samourai developers would not be a solution.  As much as I dislike Kruw who is a Coin Join coordinator, he does not deserve to be prosecuted either and his name already appeared in a document or two targeting him a while ago.  Does he need a pardon too or should we finally start looking for an actual solution to the war against Privacy?

[Justbillywitt]

I am not a big FAN of trump and he hasn't been a perfect president for me so far but if he can make this happen and free these developers I will be very happy and change the way I look at Trump onward, war on privacy shouldn't be taking place, the war should be on those who don't want people to have their privacy, we deserve it.

I am confident that president Trump will pardon them,  he seem to really understand that self custody and privacy is never a crime but our rights. Several times he has always maintained that people have the right to privacy and self custody. These sorts of illegal arrests and detention are only witnessed in a society were people who feels threatened by privacy are in power. The previous administration wasn't bitcoin friendly that's why this actually happened, if Trump was in power I don't think this arrest would have happened in the first place.

[Coinjoiner21]

Does he need a pardon too or should we finally start looking for an actual solution to the war against Privacy?

We will never solve the war against privacy by voting ourselves out of it.  Throughout time, the states have always shown interest in protecting themselves rather than their people, and this is why one of the gravest crimes have been counterfeiting of state-imposed money and evasion of tax.  Privacy enables people to resist the state's surveillance, which in consequence reduces its livelihood.  Therefore, it is absolutely against the fundamental nature of the government to not violate privacy.  It has to come from people like us, in a roundabout way. 

We are a team of anonymous activists who think they can help push the space into that direction.  We also run a WabiSabi coordinator:  https://asktom.cf/index.php?topic=5567276.msg66126348#msg66126348.  It has very little liquidity, but we try to do our best to create a monetary incentive for further privacy-related development in Bitcoin.

[Alphakilo]

I am not a big FAN of trump and he hasn't been a perfect president for me so far but if he can make this happen and free these developers I will be very happy and change the way I look at Trump onward, war on privacy shouldn't be taking place, the war should be on those who don't want people to have their privacy, we deserve it.

I am confident that president Trump will pardon them,  he seem to really understand that self custody and privacy is never a crime but our rights. Several times he has always maintained that people have the right to privacy and self custody. These sorts of illegal arrests and detention are only witnessed in a society were people who feels threatened by privacy are in power. The previous administration wasn't bitcoin friendly that's why this actually happened, if Trump was in power I don't think this arrest would have happened in the first place.

Even if Trump were to grant them pardon, am sure it would come down with an agreement to comply to regulatory policies or else either remain in jail or pay huge fines with probably deportation for any of them who is not by right a permanent citizen of U.S.
Privacy is a very huge concern for many governments of the world these days due to terrorism and other nefarious acts that could be sponsored by money launderers and of whom are anonymous by using the most sophisticated privacy tools custom built by some of these developers.

[GEMIN_M4]

I am not a big FAN of trump and he hasn't been a perfect president for me so far but if he can make this happen and free these developers I will be very happy and change the way I look at Trump onward, war on privacy shouldn't be taking place, the war should be on those who don't want people to have their privacy, we deserve it.

I am confident that president Trump will pardon them,  he seem to really understand that self custody and privacy is never a crime but our rights. Several times he has always maintained that people have the right to privacy and self custody. These sorts of illegal arrests and detention are only witnessed in a society were people who feels threatened by privacy are in power. The previous administration wasn't bitcoin friendly that's why this actually happened, if Trump was in power I don't think this arrest would have happened in the first place.

Even if Trump were to grant them pardon, am sure it would come down with an agreement to comply to regulatory policies or else either remain in jail or pay huge fines with probably deportation for any of them who is not by right a permanent citizen of U.S.
Privacy is a very huge concern for many governments of the world these days due to terrorism and other nefarious acts that could be sponsored by money launderers and of whom are anonymous by using the most sophisticated privacy tools custom built by some of these developers.

Yes, I think so too.

The case with Trump standing for you isn't going to be for free, it's always like " what will I get in return " , this is part of the reasons why I don't like politicians.

When it comes to justice you pay for it, even though they have the power to fight for you for free.

When it comes to war they make money from it, it's always not free on their terms.

There is no one as dirty as politicians.

[hugeblack]

The pardon of Ross and the possible pardon of Samourai developers would not be a solution.  As much as I dislike Kruw who is a Coin Join coordinator, he does not deserve to be prosecuted either and his name already appeared in a document or two targeting him a while ago.  Does he need a pardon too or should we finally start looking for an actual solution to the war against Privacy?

At least the Trump administration seems less crazy than what happened during the Biden administration, but it seems that the war on privacy will not stop except with a political system that respects the privacy of users, and until that happens, we will be at one time with a more extreme side and at another time with a less extreme side.

[ultrloa]

The pardon of Ross and the possible pardon of Samourai developers would not be a solution.  As much as I dislike Kruw who is a Coin Join coordinator, he does not deserve to be prosecuted either and his name already appeared in a document or two targeting him a while ago.  Does he need a pardon too or should we finally start looking for an actual solution to the war against Privacy?

At least the Trump administration seems less crazy than what happened during the Biden administration, but it seems that the war on privacy will not stop except with a political system that respects the privacy of users, and until that happens, we will be at one time with a more extreme side and at another time with a less extreme side.

This is fair observation knowing the actions done by past administration, but regardless on which administration is sitting the situation still the same since we could see those things happening and they still have less respect on individuals privacy.

Until they  treat privacy as core principle rather than a bargaining chip for their political advantage, we are going like to swing between on more or less extreme versions which still cause same problems. But in fairness to Trump he made several lot of thing to boost the popularity of Bitcoin in US, but still people should not trust politicians since there's still chance that they might change their policy which is  favorable to us.

[macson]

I am confident that president Trump will pardon them,  he seem to really understand that self custody and privacy is never a crime but our rights. Several times he has always maintained that people have the right to privacy and self custody. These sorts of illegal arrests and detention are only witnessed in a society were people who feels threatened by privacy are in power. The previous administration wasn't bitcoin friendly that's why this actually happened, if Trump was in power I don't think this arrest would have happened in the first place.

I doubt Trump will pardon the app developer. Trump isn't someone who cares about privacy and self-custody. He only favors what benefits himself and his family, he doesn't truly care about your privacy. As long as he sees the potential to generate profits, he'll do it. Although he did pardon Changpeng Zhao, if you look deeper, the pardon wasn't because he cared about the crypto world, but because CZ is the boss of Binance.

We don't need to be too innocent, he did it all for his needs.

[SuperBitMan]

In a right sense why will keeping yourself private in an exchange be a problem to government, and why will they be arresting people that created exchange that keep there customers private and secure their privacy, those this really make sense and i think this attitude is against human right law, a person should have the right to protect his privacy or make it public in online or exchange, is a personal right that every citizen should have but the government has taken it away from us and people are not even protesting against it, I'm sure as time goes on the government will bring more restrictions to our personal life style, things that are supposed to be private won't be private anymore.
The government can't say they are doing this to prevent crime because there are a lot of ways to prevent crime online, they are doing all this because they still want to have control over our funds.

[Justbillywitt]

I am confident that president Trump will pardon them,  he seem to really understand that self custody and privacy is never a crime but our rights. Several times he has always maintained that people have the right to privacy and self custody. These sorts of illegal arrests and detention are only witnessed in a society were people who feels threatened by privacy are in power. The previous administration wasn't bitcoin friendly that's why this actually happened, if Trump was in power I don't think this arrest would have happened in the first place.

Privacy is a very huge concern for many governments of the world these days due to terrorism and other nefarious acts that could be sponsored by money launderers and of whom are anonymous by using the most sophisticated privacy tools custom built by some of these developers.

When people cites terrorism as the major reason why government who don't want people's privacy as they reason why they are fighting any privacy tools that are being developed, I tend to disagree because before these tools were developed terrorism has been there, how were they being funded back then? So if they are thinking that by stopping privacy and self custodial tools that they will eliminate terrorism that's a big lie that was created to make the people believe their lies think that they are fighting a just course. The government are greedy they don't care about the people. All they want is to eliminate anything that will reduce their influence and authority. Privacy or no privacy terrorism and money laundering will keep taking place.

[Catenaccio]

I am not a big FAN of trump and he hasn't been a perfect president for me so far but if he can make this happen and free these developers I will be very happy and change the way I look at Trump onward, war on privacy shouldn't be taking place, the war should be on those who don't want people to have their privacy, we deserve it.

Trump administration is more friendly with blockchain, cryptocurrency, projects and developers but his Presidency lasts only four years and he will have about three more years in the White House as the USA President. With what he has treated with this industry in his first year so far, I think next three years will be promising for this industry, at least in legal aspect.

I am really unsure and doubtful about stance and policy of a next President after Donald J. Trump in 2028, and I see nothing can be sure that the next President will have similar stance and policies on this industry.

[Pablo-wood]

I just visited their website only to find out their domain has been seized. The fight against privacy might not end in Trumps administration, in as much as they are crypto enthusiast they won't want to give their citizens that leverage. If we watch closely the administration is more focused on pushing their coin other than adopt Bitcoin officially. This trial might last longer than we might assume or predict.

[Zlantann]

I am not a big FAN of trump and he hasn't been a perfect president for me so far but if he can make this happen and free these developers I will be very happy and change the way I look at Trump onward, war on privacy shouldn't be taking place, the war should be on those who don't want people to have their privacy, we deserve it.

I am not also a fan of any politician because they are like chameleons. They can change within within a short period. However, in terms of Bitcoin awareness and moderate crypto laws the current US government has done far better than the previous government. Congressman Warren Davidson's argument is very valid. You cannot hold a developer responsible for what people do with the service he has developed. Social media has been an avenue or platform for many illegal activities but their owners have not been sent to prison. They are either fined or sanctioned using different punishment. Keonne Rodriguez sentence deserves to be reviewed.

[Ucy]

First of all, Bitcoin solves an important problem that some people try to circumvent or are circumventing already — it allows transactions on its Blockchain to be transparent and trackable while protecting users identities (which is the actual privacy that should be mostly protected in this case). If a coin is stolen, its account/address should be blacklisted, with proof to show that the asset it contains is actually stolen, then people will be aware and avoid such addresses.
It's quite unnatural or dangerous to have both features at thesame time, that is: hidden users identities and hidden transactions. Example, If you want to buy something in the physical world, you go to a shop and you are seen by the public but they may not know what you are buying and how much you are paying for it, however your identity is not hidden(and you don't seem to be buying something dangerous) so there is lesser need to be concerned. No one will care too much about your identity if you are not buying something like gun, sword, or any dangerous thing. But if you are masked and enter a gun store, the seller will likely not sell it for you, he may request for your ID or that you unmask so that your identity is known and/or captured by their surveillance camera.

So, Bitcoin handles this issue by allowing anyone to track suspicious or criminal activities. This is what makes Bitcoin more acceptable to governments even though they may not like the idea of an independent currency system.
Unfortunately, there are people who build applications that make it difficult to handle potential issues like tracking crime money or activities. Evil do not deserve to be hidden or private, only the innocent ones deserve that. You can simply reconcile the fact that both innocent and criminal funds will pass through the application by making activities transparency while users IDs are hidden until they nolonger deserve to be hidden.. Or you collect their IDs, in privacy friendly manner, while you allow them to hide or make their coins difficult for prying eyes to track. If proven that a crime coin passed through the application, they can vote to reveal the ID of the owner. But ofcourse, this works well on a decentralized application, but could be easily abused on a centralized one hence the need to make them accountable..

Nevertheless, the court should allow them to logically and morally prove that their application/business is safe for society. If they can, then they deserve to be free with no need for pardon. Pardon, as far as I can tell should be for people who did something wrong but have changed for good

[uche6215]

This is a welcome development to us in the crypto community seeing someone who was trying to add value to what he does by creating a privacy Wallet. I don't know the criterias and the charges that were used to condemned these people but there should have been no case because privacy is one thing that governments all over the world is trying hard to fight. Any anything that can win against the war on privacy the essence of peer to peer payment methods which is built on privacy will be destroyed, so for trump to consider this case shows that he truly has love for the future of crypto currency. Because it's in this types of things which has the ability of defining the future of crypto that you see a leader with vision and love for crypto currency.

[nakamura12]

I think it's because they don't want people to have full privacy or even stronger privacy security that's why they arrested the developers of that wallet. If the government isn't like that then they should have pardon the devs then it will show that he really values people's wanting to have privacy. If trump didn't want to pardon them then it might be because it wouldn't have benefits for him but we'll know it in the future if he really will pardon the devs.

[Miles2006]

I am confident that president Trump will pardon them,  he seem to really understand that self custody and privacy is never a crime but our rights. Several times he has always maintained that people have the right to privacy and self custody. These sorts of illegal arrests and detention are only witnessed in a society were people who feels threatened by privacy are in power. The previous administration wasn't bitcoin friendly that's why this actually happened, if Trump was in power I don't think this arrest would have happened in the first place.

I doubt Trump will pardon the app developer. Trump isn't someone who cares about privacy and self-custody. He only favors what benefits himself and his family, he doesn't truly care about your privacy. As long as he sees the potential to generate profits, he'll do it. Although he did pardon Changpeng Zhao, if you look deeper, the pardon wasn't because he cared about the crypto world, but because CZ is the boss of Binance.

We don't need to be too innocent, he did it all for his needs.

Well, it’s quite unfortunate politicians don’t get trusted. You might be surprised if Trump grants freedom just to buy more minds like yours also op mentioned liking Trump if he ever agrees with privacy. Definitely nothing is free and getting a good name in return along side other benefits will be an easy access for Trump, privacy will always stand as a threat to all government basically they want to control every system likewise governments who intend to embrace bitcoin, privacy etc. Firstly they’re aware of the benefit attach with holding bitcoin and as a nation it stands as a hedge against inflation etc, few politicians still want more private means for their self gain.