[XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency

[smooth]

Hi there,

I'm putting together an evaluation matrix of all notable Anonymous/Private cryptocurrencies, and could use your help clarifyiing Monero.    Feedback including reference to something official (website, whitepaper etc) or Dev comments (or devs themselves) would be very much appreciated.

Thank you!

https://asktom.cf/index.php?topic=2669844.0

Hi

The table does not reflect Bytecoin accurately, other than the fact it was the first Cryptonote which Monero forked from. Transaction privacy is protected by secure cryptographic algorithms. whereby no one can identify who sent the money, who the receiver was, and what amount of money was transferred. It utilises all the methods in your table: https://wiki.bytecoin.org/wiki/Main_Page

Bytecoin does not effectively obscure the amount, nor is its use of ring signatures protected against chain reaction attacks as described in the MRL papers and the 'MoneroLink' paper. The only privacy part of Bytecoin that is actually secure and effective is stealth addresses.

[Anon136]

The table does not reflect Bytecoin accurately, other than the fact it was the first Cryptonote which Monero forked from. Transaction privacy is protected by secure cryptographic algorithms. whereby no one can identify who sent the money, who the receiver was, and what amount of money was transferred. It utilises all the methods in your table: https://wiki.bytecoin.org/wiki/Main_Page

Monero is inflationary and is already vulnerable to intense network shocks which could lead to an economic crash. BCN is close to its emission limit and priced at $0.006 - This is the time to pull out of XMR while the going is good and reinvest into its ancestor: Bytecoin precisely when the market supply will restrict "dumping" of coins. 

Did you ever stop to wonder why the bytecoin community bailed on bytecoin and went with this fork instead? I was around and closely following cryptonote when all of this was happening. I went with the monero fork instead for the same reason as everyone else. Bytecoin is a premine scam.

[Hueristic]

Because it uses a more complex consensus algorithm than the Nakamoto longest-chain consensus method, there is a lot of testing and analysis that needs to be done. The benefits, however, are intriguing: an implementation could increase the block rate substantially without compromising the security of the network.

I See compromising security written all over that quote I placed above. I'm starting to think this project needs a chief Security Officer. These are the exact actions that a three letter agency would be doing to place compromised positions in the codebase.

I (also) see compromising security in "a more complex consensus algorithm". A Chief Security Officer is not really the solution. How do you know such a person isn't compromised, or such a hire used to inject a rat into the project. The best approach IMO is to continue with transparency and wide participation. It is also easier for 3 letter orgs to turn devs if they are known, and anyone that thinks anyone let alone a basic programmer cannot get turned is delusional.

Actually I was thinking the Devs would get together and nominate one of their own, But the easiest way to get a rat in the system is to have had it there for a period of time contributing and as it gains trust it's pushes get merged with much less scrutiny and then it can slip in a exploit that can then be used to make the entire chain transparent and that of course would completely destroy this project.

I would also like to know why we should care about ZK-Snarks when ZK-Starks which from what I understand is already Trustless is available.

ZK-Starks are resource-impractical at this time. Something like a megabyte per transaction.

All of these are directions to explore for the future.

Thanks, the math is so far beyond me I haven't even tried to research these methods other than broad explanations.

[birr]

Actually I was thinking the Devs would get together and nominate one of their own, But the easiest way to get a rat in the system is to have had it there for a period of time contributing and as it gains trust it's pushes get merged with much less scrutiny and then it can slip in a exploit that can then be used to make the entire chain transparent and that of course would completely destroy this project.

OMG a fluffymole 

[Anon136]

This just struck me. When we get range proofs a "queued transaction" option would be amazing. For those who are unaware with the introduction of rage proofs comes the scaling of transactions by number of outputs at log(n). This would massively reduce fees for a lot of users and atleast some amount of network load.  It would in a way allow monero to do micro transactions. Or something maybe pretty close to it.

So lets say we are talking about the gui. When you prepare a transaction right below the "send" button there could be a "queue" button.  Just queue up any sort of transaction that is non critical. If you want to make a donation to your favorite artist. Or you owe a friend some money but he isn't in a hurry to get paid back. Or you want to buy something but you aren't in a hurry to get it right away. Don't send it just queue it. Once you get a decent amount of things queued the fees would be drastically reduced. Up to 80% ontop of the already 80% savings being brought by range proofs.

And incentivizing people to queue in-order to save themselves money has the added benefit of saving everyone else who uses the network money too. Holy virtue cycle.

[birr]

I just noticed something very not good at the latest Monero Observer.  In the "Guides" section there's an entry US Lifed posted an article discussing the top 3 best Monero wallets for 2018.
The linked article lists Free Wallet as best mobile wallet!  PLEASE delete this listing from the Monero Observer.

This just struck me. When we get range proofs a "queued transaction" option would be amazing. For those who are unaware with the introduction of rage proofs comes the scaling of transactions by number of outputs at log(n). This would massively reduce fees for a lot of users and atleast some amount of network load.  It would in a way allow monero to do micro transactions. Or something maybe pretty close to it.

So lets say we are talking about the gui. When you prepare a transaction right below the "send" button there could be a "queue" button.  Just queue up any sort of transaction that is non critical. If you want to make a donation to your favorite artist. Or you owe a friend some money but he isn't in a hurry to get paid back. Or you want to buy something but you aren't in a hurry to get it right away. Don't send it just queue it. Once you get a decent amount of things queued the fees would be drastically reduced. Up to 80% ontop of the already 80% savings being brought by range proofs.

And incentivizing people to queue in-order to save themselves money has the added benefit of saving everyone else who uses the network money too. Holy virtue cycle.

Even better:  build a decentralized app where participants pool or aggregate their transactions in order to reap the benefits of log scaling.  So your tx would get propagated right away, and your fee would be negligibly small (with enough participants).

[Anon136]

This just struck me. When we get range proofs a "queued transaction" option would be amazing. For those who are unaware with the introduction of rage proofs comes the scaling of transactions by number of outputs at log(n). This would massively reduce fees for a lot of users and atleast some amount of network load.  It would in a way allow monero to do micro transactions. Or something maybe pretty close to it.

So lets say we are talking about the gui. When you prepare a transaction right below the "send" button there could be a "queue" button.  Just queue up any sort of transaction that is non critical. If you want to make a donation to your favorite artist. Or you owe a friend some money but he isn't in a hurry to get paid back. Or you want to buy something but you aren't in a hurry to get it right away. Don't send it just queue it. Once you get a decent amount of things queued the fees would be drastically reduced. Up to 80% ontop of the already 80% savings being brought by range proofs.

And incentivizing people to queue in-order to save themselves money has the added benefit of saving everyone else who uses the network money too. Holy virtue cycle.

Even better:  build a decentralized app where participants pool or aggregate their transactions in order to reap the benefits of log scaling.  So your tx would get propagated right away, and your fee would be negligibly small (with enough participants).

It would be cool if possible to do this in a way that is secure and retains privacy but it isn't clear that this is possible. Any super smart guys who wanna chime in on the potential viability of such a thing would be welcomed.

[dEBRUYNE]

This just struck me. When we get range proofs a "queued transaction" option would be amazing. For those who are unaware with the introduction of rage proofs comes the scaling of transactions by number of outputs at log(n). This would massively reduce fees for a lot of users and atleast some amount of network load.  It would in a way allow monero to do micro transactions. Or something maybe pretty close to it.

So lets say we are talking about the gui. When you prepare a transaction right below the "send" button there could be a "queue" button.  Just queue up any sort of transaction that is non critical. If you want to make a donation to your favorite artist. Or you owe a friend some money but he isn't in a hurry to get paid back. Or you want to buy something but you aren't in a hurry to get it right away. Don't send it just queue it. Once you get a decent amount of things queued the fees would be drastically reduced. Up to 80% ontop of the already 80% savings being brought by range proofs.

And incentivizing people to queue in-order to save themselves money has the added benefit of saving everyone else who uses the network money too. Holy virtue cycle.

Note that queuing is more difficult in Monero as change outputs are locked for 10 blocks. You could, however, queue some transactions if you have multiple inputs. 

[birr]

Do the inputs all have to come from the a single wallet?
And does monero-wallet-cli or the monero gui have an option for sending multiple outputs, like the pay-to-many function in electrum?

[Anon136]

This just struck me. When we get range proofs a "queued transaction" option would be amazing. For those who are unaware with the introduction of rage proofs comes the scaling of transactions by number of outputs at log(n). This would massively reduce fees for a lot of users and atleast some amount of network load.  It would in a way allow monero to do micro transactions. Or something maybe pretty close to it.

So lets say we are talking about the gui. When you prepare a transaction right below the "send" button there could be a "queue" button.  Just queue up any sort of transaction that is non critical. If you want to make a donation to your favorite artist. Or you owe a friend some money but he isn't in a hurry to get paid back. Or you want to buy something but you aren't in a hurry to get it right away. Don't send it just queue it. Once you get a decent amount of things queued the fees would be drastically reduced. Up to 80% ontop of the already 80% savings being brought by range proofs.

And incentivizing people to queue in-order to save themselves money has the added benefit of saving everyone else who uses the network money too. Holy virtue cycle.

Note that queuing is more difficult in Monero as change outputs are locked for 10 blocks. You could, however, queue some transactions if you have multiple inputs.  

I only mean saving the intention of making the transaction for later. It really would be sort of an aesthetic thing. Not very different from having a todo list in a text file and adding addresses and amounts to it to save for combining later. I'm just imagining that it saves the address that you want to send to and the amount that you want to send and then adds those, with your permission, as outputs on your next pertinent transaction.

You might say that it isn't really the job of the monero core team to code something that could be done with a text file in another window. But, if people were provided a nice little convenient tool for doing this, it would have the effect of explaining to everyone that this is a good practice and help the network scale more since more people would naturally engage in this good practice more often.

Or am I missing something? Is it actually difficult to produce a transaction with say 1 input and 5 outputs?

[temmuz]

Monero, the least moving of the big coins, will you make a pump in the near future?

[Anon136]

Monero, the least moving of the big coins, will you make a pump in the near future?

Here you go https://asktom.cf/index.php?topic=753252 ask over there.

[dEBRUYNE]

Do the inputs all have to come from the a single wallet?
And does monero-wallet-cli or the monero gui have an option for sending multiple outputs, like the pay-to-many function in electrum?

Yes, you can't use inputs from different wallets.

The CLI allows this, i.e., you can send to multiple recipients in the same transaction. Type "help" to see the specific instructions.

[OWZ1337]

This just struck me. When we get range proofs a "queued transaction" option would be amazing. For those who are unaware with the introduction of rage proofs comes the scaling of transactions by number of outputs at log(n). This would massively reduce fees for a lot of users and atleast some amount of network load.  It would in a way allow monero to do micro transactions. Or something maybe pretty close to it.

So lets say we are talking about the gui. When you prepare a transaction right below the "send" button there could be a "queue" button.  Just queue up any sort of transaction that is non critical. If you want to make a donation to your favorite artist. Or you owe a friend some money but he isn't in a hurry to get paid back. Or you want to buy something but you aren't in a hurry to get it right away. Don't send it just queue it. Once you get a decent amount of things queued the fees would be drastically reduced. Up to 80% ontop of the already 80% savings being brought by range proofs.

And incentivizing people to queue in-order to save themselves money has the added benefit of saving everyone else who uses the network money too. Holy virtue cycle.

Note that queuing is more difficult in Monero as change outputs are locked for 10 blocks. You could, however, queue some transactions if you have multiple inputs. 

XRY is the real monero lol

===>

https://www.cryptopia.co.nz/Exchange?market=XRY_DOGE

[dEBRUYNE]

This just struck me. When we get range proofs a "queued transaction" option would be amazing. For those who are unaware with the introduction of rage proofs comes the scaling of transactions by number of outputs at log(n). This would massively reduce fees for a lot of users and atleast some amount of network load.  It would in a way allow monero to do micro transactions. Or something maybe pretty close to it.

So lets say we are talking about the gui. When you prepare a transaction right below the "send" button there could be a "queue" button.  Just queue up any sort of transaction that is non critical. If you want to make a donation to your favorite artist. Or you owe a friend some money but he isn't in a hurry to get paid back. Or you want to buy something but you aren't in a hurry to get it right away. Don't send it just queue it. Once you get a decent amount of things queued the fees would be drastically reduced. Up to 80% ontop of the already 80% savings being brought by range proofs.

And incentivizing people to queue in-order to save themselves money has the added benefit of saving everyone else who uses the network money too. Holy virtue cycle.

Note that queuing is more difficult in Monero as change outputs are locked for 10 blocks. You could, however, queue some transactions if you have multiple inputs.  

I only mean saving the intention of making the transaction for later. It really would be sort of an aesthetic thing. Not very different from having a todo list in a text file and adding addresses and amounts to it to save for combining later. I'm just imagining that it saves the address that you want to send to and the amount that you want to send and then adds those, with your permission, as outputs on your next pertinent transaction.

You might say that it isn't really the job of the monero core team to code something that could be done with a text file in another window. But, if people were provided a nice little convenient tool for doing this, it would have the effect of explaining to everyone that this is a good practice and help the network scale more since more people would naturally engage in this good practice more often.

Ok, I get the idea. I think something like this can and will be implemented (there's been some talk in a similar fashion with respect to churning, hence). However, it might take some time before it'd be implemented, because it will probably not be high on the priority list.

Or am I missing something? Is it actually difficult to produce a transaction with say 1 input and 5 outputs?

That's actually possible currently. See my other post here.

[nthnode404]

Monero, the least moving of the big coins, will you make a pump in the near future?

Highly doubtful. It's too expensive right now for mass adoption. There are other privacy coins that are a better value.

[Hueristic]

I just noticed something very not good at the latest Monero Observer.  In the "Guides" section there's an entry US Lifed posted an article discussing the top 3 best Monero wallets for 2018.
The linked article lists Free Wallet as best mobile wallet!  PLEASE delete this listing from the Monero Observer.

I've messaged him a few times on errors and he's ignored me. I even offered to proof but no reply. I don't believe anything he writes, he does not fact check.

I got a response from why Coinbase didn't allow me to cash to fiat when  BTC was 17k. Fuck them.

Thank you for contacting Coinbase Support,

As a FinCEN certified Money Service Business, we are periodically required to Identify users on our platform.

Please take a moment to upload a copy of your ID to https://www.coinbase.com/verifications/documents to continue with our services.

Thank you for using Coinbase.
Coinbase Phone Support

[explorer]

Flashback to 1975

https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/7o5dr5/surveillance_gold_efts_and_how_to_prevent_it_with/

[Globb0]

Saw this elsewhere


https://twitter.com/CoinTrendz/status/949294446763536384

Quite sad how we are always the bridesmaid just out of the picture.

Flipping crappy scam coins still surviving so looooonnnngg.

I hope we can become a swan soon, its so well deserved for so much hard work that has gone into the project.


*edit* and maybe I am becoming more gullible, there is actually no evidence of how this search was conducted or what it included I suppose

[iCEBREAKER]

I wonder if the Facebook bot-herders are hodling?

http://bitcoinafrica.io/2018/01/05/digmine-monero-miner-spreading-through-facebook-messenger/

What is Digmine?

Digmine is a botnet that mines monero and spreads through the desktop Chrome version of Facebook Messenger. When opened on other platforms such as mobile, the malware does not operate as it is meant to. Digmine has been discovered in countries such as South Korea, Philippines, and Thailand.