jwinterm
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Merit: 1119
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November 30, 2016, 08:34:50 PM |
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But why then is BitFinex unhackable, isn't there something else they could screw up just like other exchanges?
They're not. They were recently hacked (or stole user funds under the guise of a hack), supposedly because they somehow let a hacker get two out of two three multisig keys and drain their btc wallets. This was like late July or early August. |
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sui_generis
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November 30, 2016, 08:36:41 PM |
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My deepest wish is to see Monero overthrow Bitcoin. Logic tells me that's not possible, but just imagining the Bitcoin maximalists' reactions makes me giddy.
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KeyJockey
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November 30, 2016, 08:36:49 PM |
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Well well... don't wanna toot my own horn here, or... no, wait... yes I do LOL -- but I posted the below just a few hours ago: ... Monero's just *feeling* to me very much like a horse chomping at the bit to GIDDYAUP and RUN!!!  Feels nice to get a guess RIGHT every once in a while, eh? LOL Srsly this Bitfinex news is SO good news for a lot of reasons IMHO: 1. Direct Fiat to XMR Gateway (ransomware using XMR soon to follow?) 2. No More Only-Polo Risk (more exchanges, Kraken, coinbase? soon to follow?) 3. Exposure Better to Chinese Traders (a billion chinese, soon to follow?) 4. What else you guys think? |
- 1KeyJKVWVxdavKTetDJpQWdUaota5jbtX6 -
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Febo
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November 30, 2016, 08:49:11 PM |
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I'm with you on being bearish on Bitcoin. Even though it might go up in the next year or two, I can't stand using it. I transferred some BTC from Polo to Circle pay today and it took over 2.5 hours for it to show up in my Circle account. There is no way that will be adopted mainstream if that continues to be the case. We want instant gratification, and results.
With that said, how quickly does XMR transactions settle? I'm bullish on it from a trading perspective but don't have good technical comprehension of the specs.
Since the Monero network is far less secure than Bitcoin's, you must wait proportionally longer for the same degree of confirmation reliability (ie irreversibility) . Let's very generously assume Monero has 10% of Bitcoin's blockchain security/immutability (best way to measure the different PoW is probably by how much electricity each consumes). 6 confirmations are recommended for Bitcoin so at 10 minutes each that's 1 hour. Now multiply that by 10 to account for Monero's relative strength, and we get 6 hours. That number is way out. Monero network is less secure then Bitcoin, but is also less worth so attacking it would bring less profit and is less likely to be attacked. 6 bitcoin confirmations is quite a bit. I think 4 are more then enough. One Monero block takes 2 minutes so in 40 minutes that Bitcoin should have 4 confirmations, Monero will have 20. So basically there is a ratio of "attack-ability" to "reward". The cost and reward of attacking. But there also exists some who may not want a reward monetarily from attacking say Monero. The reward may come from devaluing another crypto because of its "insecurity" in network hash by attacking it purely to create short-term chaos. Direct and indirect "rewards" exist. Since I just registred on Bitfinex and am learning what they have to offer I found something on this subject: Bitcoin deposits are credited after a minimum of 3 confirmations (about 30 minutes, sometimes longer) Litecoin deposits are credited after a minimum of 6 confirmations (about 20 minutes, sometimes longer) Monero deposits are credited after a minimum of 15 confirmations (about 40 minutes, sometimes longer) Zcash deposits are credited after a minimum of 15 confirmations (about 60 minutes, sometimes longer) Ether deposits are credited after a minimum of 100 confirmations (about 30 minutes, sometimes longer) EtherClassic deposits are credited after a minimum of 150 confirmations (about 60 minutes, sometimes longer) It seems they think Monero needs 5 times more confirmations then Bitcoin. What I still think is overkill. Wonder how this will change with time. What will be a year from now. |
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ArticMine
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Merit: 1062
Monero Core Team
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November 30, 2016, 08:57:19 PM |
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Since I just registred on Bitfinex and am learning what they have to offer I found something on this subject:
Bitcoin deposits are credited after a minimum of 3 confirmations (about 30 minutes, sometimes longer)
Litecoin deposits are credited after a minimum of 6 confirmations (about 20 minutes, sometimes longer)
Monero deposits are credited after a minimum of 15 confirmations (about 40 minutes, sometimes longer)
Zcash deposits are credited after a minimum of 15 confirmations (about 60 minutes, sometimes longer)
Ether deposits are credited after a minimum of 100 confirmations (about 30 minutes, sometimes longer)
EtherClassic deposits are credited after a minimum of 150 confirmations (about 60 minutes, sometimes longer)
It seems they think Monero needs 5 times more confirmations then Bitcoin. What I still think is overkill. Wonder how this will change with time. What will be a year from now.
They are going by an approximate amount of time. So 5x2min blocks (Monero) equals 1x10min blocks (Bitcoin). There is some logic to this if one is concerned about orphan blocks. Edit: The interesting part is the "sometimes longer" when one considers that in some cases people are waiting 24 hours or more for a first confirmation in Bitcoin. |
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iCEBREAKER
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Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
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November 30, 2016, 09:08:26 PM |
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in some cases people are waiting 24 hours or more for a first confirmation in Bitcoin.
You mean cases in which people fail to pay a competitive fee. Pony up 11 cents and you're golden. |
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Monero
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| "The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect." Adam Back 2014
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ArticMine
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Activity: 2282
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Monero Core Team
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November 30, 2016, 09:25:04 PM |
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You mean cases in which people fail to pay a competitive fee.
Pony up 11 cents and you're golden.
For now. The trouble with the Bitcoin model is that if everyone takes this advice and ponies up 0.11 USD all cannot be golden because of the fixed supply. Price is not the issue here in fact it still likely costs more to send the funds via the Monero network. The real issue here is the ability of the network to increase supply in response to an increase in price. This is basic economics. |
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mfqrs3
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November 30, 2016, 09:28:06 PM |
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Yes, this is good news, if your moneros got stolen or lost, you won't be able to track them  Good luck with Bitfinex. (now all they need is to buy monero with their stolen/lost btc, then sell it for usd and get out, great plan ) |
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cryptimus prime
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November 30, 2016, 09:34:14 PM |
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I guess Bitfinex could be just the beginning, other exchanges will also want a part of the pie.  |
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KeyJockey
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November 30, 2016, 09:38:53 PM |
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Umm, practically speaking: what's the difference with lost/stolen bitcoin anyway?
How many of the "lost" or "stolen" coins from MtGox or Bitfinex "hack" have ever really been "tracked" anywhere, or recovered in any amount at all?
Saying XMR is worse for this because of anonymity seems just ridiculous.
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- 1KeyJKVWVxdavKTetDJpQWdUaota5jbtX6 -
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kurious
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November 30, 2016, 09:39:44 PM |
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I guess Bitfinex could be just the beginning, other exchanges will also want a part of the pie. It was only a matter of time, Polo was making a lot out of XMR and Bitfinex needed to bring new customers in. Since Polo offers no USD / XMR option - it's way overdue an exchange moved on this. |
我想要火箭和火车
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bitwolf
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November 30, 2016, 09:42:05 PM |
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Yes, this is good news, if your moneros got stolen or lost, you won't be able to track them Good luck with Bitfinex. (now all they need is to buy monero with their stolen/lost btc, then sell it for usd and get out, great plan ) Do you hear everybody? IRS no more stealing from us . Huurraayyy . Thank you Cryptogod, huh I mean Monero !!  |
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kurious
Legendary
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November 30, 2016, 09:43:50 PM |
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Anyone got any train pics handy - BTC Wall Observer doesn't need them, bring them here?  Bonus LULZ: https://www.bitfinex.com/posts/49"Due to persistently low demand for trading in Darkcoin (AKA Dash), we have decided to remove Darkcoin from our crypto-currency trading pairs." This is rather delightful! Dash in the rear view mirror once and for all. They will be so pissed off, or perhaps they might see the light at last... Recovering Dash Addicts Welcome Here. |
我想要火箭和火车
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phishead
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November 30, 2016, 10:05:22 PM |
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Not a train pic, but... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯  |
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cryptoPrecise
Member
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Activity: 69
Merit: 100
Cryptocurrencies since 2013 @cryptoPrecise
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November 30, 2016, 10:18:23 PM |
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Bought Monero! We seem to have a nice time ahead of us!
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Shiroslullaby
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November 30, 2016, 11:46:30 PM |
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Price increase is due to being listed on Bitfinex?
Just got home from work to a 15% increase on Poloniex.
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ozkraut
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November 30, 2016, 11:49:46 PM |
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Price increase is due to being listed on Bitfinex?
Just got home from work to a 15% increase on Poloniex.
looks like it. imagine the weight of this news if bfx hadn't been hacked.... |
Monero - Wir sind die Leute vor denen uns unsere Eltern gewarnt haben!
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Billy Bunter
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November 30, 2016, 11:59:20 PM |
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Price increase is due to being listed on Bitfinex?
Just got home from work to a 15% increase on Poloniex.
looks like it. imagine the weight of this news if bfx hadn't been hacked.... Which makes me wonder why Bitfinex is still around. Why would anyone continue trading on an exchange that has lost their members millions of dollars either through incompetence or fraud? As much as I'd like to believe this is fantastic news for Monero, I'm somewhat skeptical about it. |
Baguette Holder.
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Shiroslullaby
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December 01, 2016, 12:05:11 AM |
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I'm a bit wary of Bitfinex myself,
I'm actually amazed that they were able to stay in business after the hack.
Have there been any updates to their trying to negotiate with the theif? I haven't heard much about that recently.
Anyways, I'm glad I've been mining my couple Monero. I wish I owned more. I really believe that this coin is the future.
If anything can compete with Bitcoin in the next few years, its probably XMR.
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mfqrs3
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December 01, 2016, 12:26:47 AM |
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I wont touch Bitfinex again, so this news is 0$ worth to me. I doubt that anyone who got hacked will touch xmr there.
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