[XMR] Monero Speculation

[chennan]

Do any of you (who believe mainly in xmr and maybe btc) recommend having a few eth as hedge?

I have a little ETH and ETC as a hedge. I think smart contracts have so far turned out to be nothing more than bullshit hype for the purpose of pumping a token, but may, eventually, turn out to be more than that.

I also have some worse crap than ETH as hedges too, so don't view this as an endorsement, more of an admission that my current views on crypto merits may turn out somehow to be wrong and I don't need to figure out exactly how for the hedge to work. Also even if my skepticism turns out to be correct ultimately the market may get it 'wrong' for a long time.

The thing I really don't understand is the logic behind having coins that carry monetary value for things such as ETH and ETC, even SIA or any other "smart contract" or "app coins".  IRL if you want someone like a lawyer to help you draft out a contract, or maybe help you submit a patent on a new invention you made, you would influence the lawyer to do that for you by paying them in cash/fiat.  Imagine having to go out somewhere to buy some random "lawyer tokens" to be able to talk to a lawyer... that would be insane, wouldn't it?

I understand people who mine ETH, or whatever smart contract coin out there, need to have some reason to do it... but I just believe there just has to be some better way to go about doing this.  This whole thing just seems backwards to me...

[Hueristic]

Do any of you (who believe mainly in xmr and maybe btc) recommend having a few eth as hedge?

I have a little ETH and ETC as a hedge. I think smart contracts have so far turned out to be nothing more than bullshit hype for the purpose of pumping a token, but may, eventually, turn out to be more than that.

I also have some worse crap than ETH as hedges too, so don't view this as an endorsement, more of an admission that my current views on crypto merits may turn out somehow to be wrong and I don't need to figure out exactly how for the hedge to work. Also even if my skepticism turns out to be correct ultimately the market may get it 'wrong' for a long time.

The thing I really don't understand is the logic behind having coins that carry monetary value for things such as ETH and ETC, even SIA or any other "smart contract" or "app coins".  IRL if you want someone like a lawyer to help you draft out a contract, or maybe help you submit a patent on a new invention you made, you would influence the lawyer to do that for you by paying them in cash/fiat.  Imagine having to go out somewhere to buy some random "lawyer tokens" to be able to talk to a lawyer... that would be insane, wouldn't it?

I understand people who mine ETH, or whatever smart contract coin out there, need to have some reason to do it... but I just believe there just has to be some better way to go about doing this.  This whole thing just seems backwards to me...

Because markets do not follow logic and better tech loses all the time, it's called speculation for a reason.

[smooth]

Do any of you (who believe mainly in xmr and maybe btc) recommend having a few eth as hedge?

I have a little ETH and ETC as a hedge. I think smart contracts have so far turned out to be nothing more than bullshit hype for the purpose of pumping a token, but may, eventually, turn out to be more than that.

I also have some worse crap than ETH as hedges too, so don't view this as an endorsement, more of an admission that my current views on crypto merits may turn out somehow to be wrong and I don't need to figure out exactly how for the hedge to work. Also even if my skepticism turns out to be correct ultimately the market may get it 'wrong' for a long time.

The thing I really don't understand is the logic behind having coins that carry monetary value for things such as ETH and ETC, even SIA or any other "smart contract" or "app coins".  IRL if you want someone like a lawyer to help you draft out a contract, or maybe help you submit a patent on a new invention you made, you would influence the lawyer to do that for you by paying them in cash/fiat.  Imagine having to go out somewhere to buy some random "lawyer tokens" to be able to talk to a lawyer... that would be insane, wouldn't it?

Because no one knows how to build a decentralized (not federated) blockchain that is able to operate on "foreign" tokens. It is a bit like traveling to another country (in the days before electronic payments). You do indeed have to exchange your money first if you want to pay a lawyer there.

Because markets do not follow logic and better tech loses all the time, it's called speculation for a reason.

This may also be true. I'm a bit uncertain because the most commonly cited examples like VHS and Beta are in fact terrible logic due to things like recording time and cost.

[explorer]

This may also be true. I'm a bit uncertain because the most commonly cited examples like VHS and Beta are in fact terrible logic due to things like recording time and cost.

And the result of Sony refusing to license Beta.  Made calling the BlueRay battle for supremacy easy.  No way they would make the same mistake twice.  What was that other DVD format again?  Marketing works.

[Hueristic]

Failures that were ahead of their time. some were just not marketed and some were over priced.

http://listverse.com/2013/01/12/10-innovative-pieces-of-technology-that-failed-miserably/
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2325931,00.asp
http://www.businessinsider.com/startup-failures-2011-5

Underfunded and facing a Monopolistic opponent.

https://fee.org/articles/the-tucker-car-did-the-big-guys-do-it-in/

Just saying the best doesn't always get adopted, it's a shame really but most people lack the drive to research anything and just use whats easy and what everyone else is using.

[Monerobuyer]

1.Is Smooth Jeffrey Lebowski?

2.When will monero get pruning like aeon? Why can't bbr pruning be copied?

3. Is active development for aeon ongoing?

4. Monero iOS wallet?

5. Isn't monero price high enough that devs make it their full time job? I assume they own and get paid a lot of XMR.

[Febo]

1.Is Smooth Jeffrey Lebowski?

No smooth is his son.

2.When will monero get pruning like aeon? Why can't bbr pruning be copied?

To hard question for me, but BBR is not that similar to Monero and AEON as many thinks.

3. Is active development for aeon ongoing?

You should ask that here:  https://asktom.cf/index.php?topic=641696.0
But I think AEON could deserve more ongoing development happening.

4. Monero iOS wallet?

3-5 years

5. Isn't monero price high enough that devs make it their full time job? I assume they own and get paid a lot of XMR.

There were few projects started here: https://forum.getmonero.org/9/work-in-progress
Most developers contribute for free. Some did most of time and now got some founding to pay their hours they spend contributing.
Price of Monero dont matter here. It did in few cases, when this much XMR was gathered to pay this much hours and then price escalated and those lucky few got nice hourly wage.

[Johnny Mnemonic]

Failures that were ahead of their time. some were just not marketed and some were over priced.

http://listverse.com/2013/01/12/10-innovative-pieces-of-technology-that-failed-miserably/
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2325931,00.asp
http://www.businessinsider.com/startup-failures-2011-5

Underfunded and facing a Monopolistic opponent.

https://fee.org/articles/the-tucker-car-did-the-big-guys-do-it-in/

Just saying the best doesn't always get adopted, it's a shame really but most people lack the drive to research anything and just use whats easy and what everyone else is using.

Most of the example 'failures' you reference are the products themselves, and not their underlying technology. In almost every case, the better tech does win, or is eventually superseded by something even better than that.

For example, the underlying Laserdisc technology did prevail (through CDs and eventually DVDs), though the Laserdisc format did not catch on due to practical limitations that made it inferior to other options at the time. The superior image quality of Laserdisc was largely unrealized on consumer TV displays, coupled with the fact that users were unable to record onto the disk. But this is still an example of the better tech winning, as optical disk formats have since dominated in consumer media storage.

Even the VHS/Betamax example is terrible, because although Betamax lost the consumer videotape format war, it survived successfully as a professional and commercial video format.

[Hueristic]

Failures that were ahead of their time. some were just not marketed and some were over priced.

http://listverse.com/2013/01/12/10-innovative-pieces-of-technology-that-failed-miserably/
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2325931,00.asp
http://www.businessinsider.com/startup-failures-2011-5

Underfunded and facing a Monopolistic opponent.

https://fee.org/articles/the-tucker-car-did-the-big-guys-do-it-in/

Just saying the best doesn't always get adopted, it's a shame really but most people lack the drive to research anything and just use whats easy and what everyone else is using.

Most of the example 'failures' you reference are the products themselves, and not their underlying technology. In almost every case, the better tech does win, or is eventually superseded by something even better than that.

For example, the underlying Laserdisc technology did prevail (through CDs and eventually DVDs), though the Laserdisc format did not catch on due to practical limitations that made it inferior to other options at the time. The superior image quality of Laserdisc was largely unrealized on consumer TV displays, coupled with the fact that users were unable to record onto the disk. But this is still an example of the better tech winning, as optical disk formats have since dominated in consumer media storage.

Even the VHS/Betamax example is terrible, because although Betamax lost the consumer videotape format war, it survived successfully as a professional and commercial video format.

Laserdisc was first by a long shot and would have been adopted but the cost was through the roof, I remember it clearly. And that was a quick google for more on spot examples feel free I'm know your able to google. I'm not interested in getting into a protracted discussion on semantics.

[Monerobuyer]

1.Is Smooth Jeffrey Lebowski?

No smooth is his son.

2.When will monero get pruning like aeon? Why can't bbr pruning be copied?

To hard question for me, but BBR is not that similar to Monero and AEON as many thinks.

3. Is active development for aeon ongoing?

You should ask that here:  https://asktom.cf/index.php?topic=641696.0
But I think AEON could deserve more ongoing development happening.

4. Monero iOS wallet?

3-5 years

5. Isn't monero price high enough that devs make it their full time job? I assume they own and get paid a lot of XMR.

There were few projects started here: https://forum.getmonero.org/9/work-in-progress
Most developers contribute for free. Some did most of time and now got some founding to pay their hours they spend contributing.
Price of Monero dont matter here. It did in few cases, when this much XMR was gathered to pay this much hours and then price escalated and those lucky few got nice hourly wage.

3 years? But why? :-(

[starmman]

Hopefully they'll jump on Monero, but they'd better learn about decentralized exchanges as well.

Will be great if this happens - XMR price has been relatively stable over the last few weeks (great for confidence but not for trading) - would be good if there was a bullish sentiment

[GingerAle]

5. Isn't monero price high enough that devs make it their full time job? I assume they own and get paid a lot of XMR.

Unlike 99% all of the other scam coins, there was no premine, instamine, ninjamine, or any other way for the core team to have amassed an unfair share of Monero during its first couple months of existence. Therefore, the core team does not hold a ridiculous amount of Monero.

When it first hit the exchanges it was around 0.007 BTC.... so it was never "free" to obtain tons of it.

Their efforts are funded by the donations of the community and their own personal finances.

[KeyJockey]

3 years? But why? :-(

Oh, that's just a running joke around here, similar to the oft-repeating yuk about FluffyPony doing his exit scam scheduled for, when is it now?  2025?

The monero community is a small place but we all have to remember that a lot of folks aren't always up to full speed on all the everyday goings-on around here.

These jokes can backfire and give people the wrong idea sometimes LOL

[Hueristic]

5. Isn't monero price high enough that devs make it their full time job? I assume they own and get paid a lot of XMR.

Unless 99% all of the other scam coins, there was no premine, instamine, ninjamine, or any other way for the core team to have amassed an unfair share of Monero during its first couple months of existence. Therefore, the core team does not hold a ridiculous amount of Monero.

When it first hit the exchanges it was around 0.007 BTC.... so it was never "free" to obtain tons of it.

Their efforts are funded by the donations of the community and their own personal finances.

And lets not forget those like WarpTangent who worked for purely altruistic reasons.

[Johnny Mnemonic]

Laserdisc was first by a long shot and would have been adopted but the cost was through the roof, I remember it clearly. And that was a quick google for more on spot examples feel free I'm know your able to google. I'm not interested in getting into a protracted discussion on semantics.

I'm not disagreeing with your semantics. You said "better tech loses all the time" and cited some poorly marketed products as examples. Sure I can google, but I still can't find any good fodder to back up your statement.

I brought up Laserdisc because I don't think it's an example of better tech 'losing' to inferior tech. Optical disk technology has been winning for decades.

Edit: I'm honestly not trying to split hairs about this, but the "better tech loses" idea is repeated quite a bit here and is almost always accompanied with examples of products like Sega Saturn or Intellivision, or of technologies that ultimately were adopted, just not in their earliest form.

[Hueristic]

Laserdisc was first by a long shot and would have been adopted but the cost was through the roof, I remember it clearly. And that was a quick google for more on spot examples feel free I'm know your able to google. I'm not interested in getting into a protracted discussion on semantics.

I'm not disagreeing with your semantics. You said "better tech loses all the time" and cited some poorly marketed products as examples. Sure I can google, but I still can't find any good fodder to back up your statement.

I brought up Laserdisc because I don't think it's an example of better tech 'losing' to inferior tech. Optical disk technology has been winning for decades.

Ohh, I didn't mean All of the time I meant alot of the time. My bad, I was playing loose with the verbage.

AFA the Laser Tech it was only competing with tape when released and cdroms didn't come out till much later. they had ample opportunity to own the market but in their case they priced the majority out of the market. IIRC I was making $2.80 an hour and the machine was $800 and one movie was $50 which is just an insane amount for the time. I think they only had 4 movies on launch and Logans Run was the one I wanted.

[Johnny Mnemonic]

Ohh, I didn't mean All of the time I meant alot of the time. My bad, I was playing loose with the verbage.

AFA the Laser Tech it was only competing with tape when released and cdroms didn't come out till much later. they had ample opportunity to own the market but in their case they priced the majority out of the market. IIRC I was making $2.80 an hour and the machine was $800 and one movie was $50 which is just an insane amount for the time. I think they only had 4 movies on launch and Logans Run was the one I wanted.

Yep, and there was virtually no protective coating on the things, so the smallest scratch on the disc pretty much ensured the picture would lock up indefinitely at some point

We're on the same page. You're saying at any given point in time an inferior tech might be favored due to prohibitive cost or other limitations of its rival. I can agree with that.

[doc12]

Any news on the Monero Trezor integration ? now that RingCT is ready.

[Febo]

Any news on the Monero Trezor integration ? now that RingCT is ready.

If I remember right they are upgrading things they already have. something like Trezor v2. And spending their full time for that and when finished, will start adding new coins. Since if they would do before would need to renew it.

I expect Ledger will add Monero before Trezor. But even that will not happen really soon. but who knows.

[Arvydas77]

I guess that in long term Monero will rise to 50 USD and probably more. I'm happy about great work done by the developers and fluffypony is one of the best on the scene. As Charlie Lee stated in his twitter post, XMR team are doing honest marketing, so they are not expanding as wide as Dash. But Monero has better technology and in long term it should surpass all the other privacy oriented alts.