[XMR] Monero Speculation

[tokeweed]

With the latest flee of capitals for the bitcoin fork and the anoncoin attention having been temporarily redirected to zencoin thanks to palms beach recommendations, XMR lost traction and now seems to be time to a good buying range for XMR (at the moment 86$).

Lol.  A couple years ago a good buying range was around two bucks.  I'm not saying it's over priced or anything.  It's just funny how far Monero has gone since those days of the altcoin sub being bombarded by FUD over and over.  And it has proven that it's one of the best, if not the best altcoin.

[generalizethis]

Coffee chat is happening now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoY60a_qhPg

Just mentioned: http://www.xmrujo.com/

[Nathan047]

With the latest flee of capitals for the bitcoin fork and the anoncoin attention having been temporarily redirected to zencoin thanks to palms beach recommendations, XMR lost traction and now seems to be time to a good buying range for XMR (at the moment 86$).

I second this.

I’ve been filling my bag at 85ish dollars and I’m expecting the price to rise a fair amount in the next pump (even if it goes down a bit, it should go up a lot more after).

Fingers crossed.

[Globb0]

Coffee chat is happening now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoY60a_qhPg

Just mentioned: http://www.xmrujo.com/

Thanks for the link. Followed now in you tube.

[B1tUnl0ck3r]

If you get how the zerocoin protocol works you will see how easy it is to have privacy. It's possible to keep all your coins untraceable on pivx, by keeping them on the zpiv form, however you can't stake this way.

And once they come from the zpiv accumlator, what can you say about the origin or destination of those pivx? nothing.

.

And this statement just proves that they are not Fungable and can never be.

/answering shill mode off

I feel like the goal of trying to cast the widest net for suckers users has many treating privacy as a feature, rather than a function. Until their goal is fungibility and creating the largest anonymity set, they will continue to stare at Monero's design in dumb awe. They neither understand that Monero's user base demands best in class privacy or how to attain best in class privacy--to them marketing and better-than-Bitcoin's-privacy are enough.

that's exactly my question, why is monero better than pivx from a privacy point of view?

And yes I think it's a very relevant topic for the monero speculation thread. If pivx tech is better...

[generalizethis]

If you get how the zerocoin protocol works you will see how easy it is to have privacy. It's possible to keep all your coins untraceable on pivx, by keeping them on the zpiv form, however you can't stake this way.

And once they come from the zpiv accumlator, what can you say about the origin or destination of those pivx? nothing.

.

And this statement just proves that they are not Fungable and can never be.

/answering shill mode off

I feel like the goal of trying to cast the widest net for suckers users has many treating privacy as a feature, rather than a function. Until their goal is fungibility and creating the largest anonymity set, they will continue to stare at Monero's design in dumb awe. They neither understand that Monero's user base demands best in class privacy or how to attain best in class privacy--to them marketing and better-than-Bitcoin's-privacy are enough.

that's exactly my question, why is monero better than pivx from a privacy point of view?

And yes I think it's a very relevant topic for the monero speculation thread. If pivx tech is better...

Read the bolded as it applies to optional privacy--I said this before and can only repeat it so many times--if you don't understand, that's not my problem. Also, if you want technological analysis, I suggest you ask in the monero ann thread or on reddit or on irc--this is a Monero speculation thread, not a development thread. It's obvious that you are using it to shill pivx. It's off topic, annoying and obvious. Please ask technical questions on a technical thread.

Look I'll even link you a great place to find out all the reasons pivx is inferior: https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero

[johnalan]

Regarding s2x futures: On bfx it is BT2; on hitbtc it is B2X. The latter is less liquid, yet only there did it double overnight. They differ a lot, and really should be arbed.  But I had my fun on the double, and won't press my luck.

Back to XMR: I am not yet convinced we have seen the bottom, because it is a long way to go before msig can have a fundamental impact.  But hey, I am not in touch with the myriad of emerging catalysts, so I will be neither surprised nor displeased if my hedging proves unwarranted.  My guess is up then down and maybe back and forth before it really rips - a prediction so weak as to be embarrassing, yet eminently practical, and fully actionable.

My G,

Have you adjusted your expectation of ~$1000USD XMR in 2018?

[johnalan]

If you get how the zerocoin protocol works you will see how easy it is to have privacy. It's possible to keep all your coins untraceable on pivx, by keeping them on the zpiv form, however you can't stake this way.

And once they come from the zpiv accumlator, what can you say about the origin or destination of those pivx? nothing.

.

And this statement just proves that they are not Fungable and can never be.

/answering shill mode off

I feel like the goal of trying to cast the widest net for suckers users has many treating privacy as a feature, rather than a function. Until their goal is fungibility and creating the largest anonymity set, they will continue to stare at Monero's design in dumb awe. They neither understand that Monero's user base demands best in class privacy or how to attain best in class privacy--to them marketing and better-than-Bitcoin's-privacy are enough.

that's exactly my question, why is monero better than pivx from a privacy point of view?

And yes I think it's a very relevant topic for the monero speculation thread. If pivx tech is better...

LUL

PivX has a rich list for fuck sake.

http://www.presstab.pw/phpexplorer/PIVX/richlist.php

My greatest fear is that the market and genpop never wake up to the intellectual reality that most coins are fucking nonsense.

Where Verge and PivX fans will vehemently argue they have greater privacy whilst simultaneously being a click away from a fucking list of the COMPLETE DISTRIBUTION of their coin, with ALL BALANCES on show.

fuck. me.

[Hueristic]

I can understand BTC envy due to the ongoing ramp, but lately my most massive gains have been on B2X, which doubled between midnight and 6AM this morning, and BCH, which is less exhuberant but more liquid.  

And yes, Johnny Mnemonic is quite right that one should, as a rule, rebalance away from the leading asset, into the lagging one, ceteris paribus.

What futures market are you using?

Bitfinex is probably the premier and most liquid.

Bitfinex closed my account, because I'm in the U.S.  I thought aminorex was in the U.S., too.  Maybe he found another futures market.  What others are there besides Bitfinex?  And why did you answer the question I asked aminorex?

There are things called proxy's.

Quite nice token, monero is like bitcoin

Yes the bitcoin token is godd iz will get sum.

And why did you answer the question I asked aminorex?

I do that all the time. Is it taboo?

I don't think so, we are a community of friends who all help out. Nothing wrong with that.

Thanks guys, I was indeed just answering in an effort to help.  I hope we will all continue to do so - many people on here have helped me out before and I really appreciated it.

What goes around...

I thought whoever sees a question first and has an answer does so? I've been doing it wrong!

If you get how the zerocoin protocol works you will see how easy it is to have privacy. It's possible to keep all your coins untraceable on pivx, by keeping them on the zpiv form, however you can't stake this way.

And once they come from the zpiv accumlator, what can you say about the origin or destination of those pivx? nothing.

.

And this statement just proves that they are not Fungable and can never be.

/answering shill mode off

I feel like the goal of trying to cast the widest net for suckers users has many treating privacy as a feature, rather than a function. Until their goal is fungibility and creating the largest anonymity set, they will continue to stare at Monero's design in dumb awe. They neither understand that Monero's user base demands best in class privacy or how to attain best in class privacy--to them marketing and better-than-Bitcoin's-privacy are enough.

that's exactly my question, why is monero better than pivx from a privacy point of view?

And yes I think it's a very relevant topic for the monero speculation thread. If pivx tech is better...

LUL

PivX has a rich list for fuck sake.

http://www.presstab.pw/phpexplorer/PIVX/richlist.php

My greatest fear is that the market and genpop never wake up to the intellectual reality that most coins are fucking nonsense.

Where Verge and PivX fans will vehemently argue they have greater privacy whilst simultaneously being a click away from a fucking list of the COMPLETE DISTRIBUTION of their coin, with ALL BALANCES on show.

fuck. me.

HaHa that alone makes it a non starter! Lol

They will be standing their with everything hanging out for the world to see just like ShadowCrap was.



Monero richlist.

https://moneroblocks.info/richlist

I miss the old one.

[c789]

that's exactly my question, why is monero better than pivx from a privacy point of view?
And yes I think it's a very relevant topic for the monero speculation thread. If pivx tech is better...

https://moneroforcash.com/monero-vs-dash-vs-zcash-vs-bitcoinmixers.php#dash-pivx

Additionally, add-on or optional privacy can never be as private as protocol-level mandatory privacy (Monero).

Others have already pointed out the PIVX rich list.

[vit05]

that's exactly my question, why is monero better than pivx from a privacy point of view?
And yes I think it's a very relevant topic for the monero speculation thread. If pivx tech is better...

https://moneroforcash.com/monero-vs-dash-vs-zcash-vs-bitcoinmixers.php#dash-pivx

Additionally, add-on or optional privacy can never be as private as protocol-level mandatory privacy (Monero).

Others have already pointed out the PIVX rich list.

Is there a place where they compare more coins to monero? Or more info between coins? I love that.

[explorer]

that's exactly my question, why is monero better than pivx from a privacy point of view?
And yes I think it's a very relevant topic for the monero speculation thread. If pivx tech is better...

https://moneroforcash.com/monero-vs-dash-vs-zcash-vs-bitcoinmixers.php#dash-pivx

Additionally, add-on or optional privacy can never be as private as protocol-level mandatory privacy (Monero).

Others have already pointed out the PIVX rich list.

Is there a place where they compare more coins to monero? Or more info between coins? I love that.

https://moneroforcash.com/monero-vs-dash-vs-zcash-vs-bitcoinmixers.php

http://weuse.cash/2016/06/09/btc-xmr-zcash/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/4bu212/zcash_enables_the_highest_level_of_privacy/d1ceq3f/

https://asktom.cf/index.php?topic=753252.msg23238575#msg23238575

https://asktom.cf/index.php?topic=999886.0

[EMS-007]

Monero one of my favorites altcoins currencies. When ETC is falling, Bitcoin is unstable it is right thing to invest in not classic but proven currencies. From time to time I am getting not bad profits of it.

I'm expecting a great momentum with this coin on the 1st quarter of the incoming year..

[Febo]

Bulletproofs: Efficient Range Proofs for Confidential Transactions

http://web.stanford.edu/~buenz/pubs/bulletproofs.pdf

Bulletproofs could at least halve the size of Monero transaction.

I know this is just a research and even if is by any chance 100% correct will not be added to Monero for at least a year. But what is important is that it exist, and I am sure there will be tens or hundred similar in the future. And each of them will reduce transaction size and with that reduce Monero blockchain growth. Monero blockchain growth is one of biggest worries people have when think what would today happen if Monero would have same amount of transactions as Bitcoin does.

[Globb0]

Bulletproofs: Efficient Range Proofs for Confidential Transactions

http://web.stanford.edu/~buenz/pubs/bulletproofs.pdf

Bulletproofs could at least halve the size of Monero transaction.

I know this is just a research and even if is by any chance 100% correct will not be added to Monero for at least a year. But what is important is that it exist, and I am sure there will be tens or hundred similar in the future. And each of them will reduce transaction size and with that reduce Monero blockchain growth. Monero blockchain growth is one of biggest worries people have when think what would today happen if Monero would have same amount of transactions as Bitcoin does.

If only they compared like for like.

If you had a secure bitcoin version the transactions would need to be bigger too.

[Febo]

Bulletproofs: Efficient Range Proofs for Confidential Transactions

http://web.stanford.edu/~buenz/pubs/bulletproofs.pdf

Bulletproofs could at least halve the size of Monero transaction.

I know this is just a research and even if is by any chance 100% correct will not be added to Monero for at least a year. But what is important is that it exist, and I am sure there will be tens or hundred similar in the future. And each of them will reduce transaction size and with that reduce Monero blockchain growth. Monero blockchain growth is one of biggest worries people have when think what would today happen if Monero would have same amount of transactions as Bitcoin does.

If only they compared like for like.

If you had a secure bitcoin version the transactions would need to be bigger too.

Reality is that we have many years to go to reach Bitcoin number for transactions. It will not happen next month.  Bitcoin have like 60-70 times more transactions then Monero. And Number of Monero transactions increase for only few times a year. In that pace we have 4 years. So many innovations like Bulletproofs will happen till then.   What is important is that they do happen!!!

[Millionero]

Bulletproofs: Efficient Range Proofs for Confidential Transactions

http://web.stanford.edu/~buenz/pubs/bulletproofs.pdf

Bulletproofs could at least halve the size of Monero transaction.

I know this is just a research and even if is by any chance 100% correct will not be added to Monero for at least a year. But what is important is that it exist, and I am sure there will be tens or hundred similar in the future. And each of them will reduce transaction size and with that reduce Monero blockchain growth. Monero blockchain growth is one of biggest worries people have when think what would today happen if Monero would have same amount of transactions as Bitcoin does.

I found Section 4.6 interesting

Bulletproofs, like the range proofs currently used in confidential transactions,
are computationally binding. An adversary that could break the discrete logarithm
assumption could generate acceptable range proofs for a value outside the
correct range. On the other hand, the commitments are perfectly hiding and
Bulletproofs are perfect zero-knowledge, so that even an all powerful adversary
cannot learn which value was committed to. Commitment schemes which are
simultaneously perfectly-binding and perfectly-hiding commitments are impossible,
so when designing commitment schemes and proof systems, we need to
decide which properties are more important. For cryptocurrencies, the binding
property is more important than the hiding property [RM]. An adversary that
can break the binding property of the commitment scheme or the soundness of
the proof system can generate coins out of thin air and thus create uncontrolled
but undetectable inflation rendering the currency useless. Giving up the privacy
of a transaction is much less harmful as the sender of the transaction or
the owner of an account is harmed at worst. Unfortunately, it seems difficult
to create Bulletproofs from binding commitments.

[walonek]

You priests still there beliving and making choices after your feelings? How do you fell walking at the total USD edge? You love the USD price and it is on the edge for 1,5 month now reaching the trendline edge. 60 USD is near. The same is with BTC price. 0.01 this week. I am for 65% sure 0.01 will not hodl and 0.006 will be seen before btc fork. Then i bet bad things happen to BTC and the price will surge a lotdown. This will bring all alts down a lot more than you think. But be there... belive. You are good food form my shorting strategy.

Did I mention that masses does not price privacy? Did i mention that masses price SECURITY? Masses sell their privacy for security and that is the answer I discovered when I was wondering why this noMore is sitting at its value in BTC. Answer is that noMore is not technologicaly advanced comparing to other major alts and privacy it is marketing is total bullshit to masses... Masses does not want privacy they want fast and secure value transfers. noMore is not focused at it. That is why it is shit. Privacy is not priced... Ask your neighbour - "if you have nothing to hide, why to hide?" - regular answer.

[walonek]

@doc12 Shorting ShortMeMore = noMore = this crap coin. I love to make money of failed projects like this pump&dump.

[doc12]

@doc12 Shorting ShortMeMore = noMore = this crap coin. I love to make money of failed projects like this pump&dump.

Good Luck. Late performance may be bad, but xmr is still one of the Top5 projects in crypto. Not just some copy n paste Shit with fancy features. Nothing failed here, private untracable transaction working like a charm.

And privacy matters, of course not for the average Joe, but for people with large amounts of money. Nothing new you are babbling here.