I imagine that a large number of folks start out in bitcoin and they don't get it right away, even if they might start to buy some of it, so they might get into bitcoin thinking about bitcoin as a trade and then they might make some mistakes and then transition into thinking about bitcoin as an investment.
A person is likely going to be much better off to save up for a house in bitcon and perhaps buy the house later rather than buying it too soon and then deferring his accumulation of bitcoin, whether in the USA or in other places.
Sure the housing market is going to be different from place to place, and the availability of credit is also going to be different from place to place too.
Yes it’s true a good number of folks get started with bitcoin without knowing all the right ways to go about it, we just want to be involved and grow and get better as we practice. It’s better to be in and learn as you go than to be outside and waiting for the perfect moment or until you’ve gotten all the knowledge.
And Sure our individual goals in investing differs from one person to the other.
Talking about buying a house I agree with you on the fact it’s better to invest or save to buy a house in bitcoin than just buy the house now. A while back there was a picture that circulated the internet on the how much BTC it took to buy a house in 2015, 2017 and 2024 from that picture and from history you’ll notice it took less amounts of bitcoin to purchase a house as the years went by, so investing in bitcoin is surely a better way.
(I’ll look for that picture and add to this post)
We don't even necessarily need a picture, and just consider bitcoin prices in 2016 were between $420 and $900, yet mostly in the middle of that, so if we bought a half a million dollar house in 2016 when we could have had bought bitcoin for $650, then if we look that the house would have had cost us 769 bitcoin.
So now if we have 769 bitcoin, those bitcoin would currently be worth right around $88.5 million dollars.
Let's say that the house went up in nominal value by 4x (which is a bit generous, but possible), and so that $2 million house would currently cost us right around 17.4 bitcoin).
We would not have necessarily known in 2016 that it would have had been better to put the value in bitcoin rather than in a house, so sometimes by the time we figure it out, some of the value has been arbitraged away, yet at the same time, it still remains likely that bitcoin is going to continue to appreciate in value better than houses, yet perhaps not at the same rate as it did in the past 9-ish years.
I imagine that a large number of folks start out in bitcoin and they don't get it right away, even if they might start to buy some of it, so they might get into bitcoin thinking about bitcoin as a trade and then they might make some mistakes and then transition into thinking about bitcoin as an investment.
My first investment in Bitcoin was never to hold or keep for long because I know nothing about it. It was mere like a scheme that will enhance you to earn more Bitcoin when you hold it for some certain period of time.
It was later I started understanding more about my Bitcoin that this is not just a means of buying and exchanging it with multiple people to earn a little fraction. This is more like p2p trade where you buy and sell to someone that needed it more urgently. I have changed my mindset about Bitcoin and this is not just an investment but a way of life.
My exposure doing this for sometimes made me to think often time why people are so in need of Bitcoin trading with me so that they can own it and hold for reason best known to them. I have get to understand that starting something like an investment is like a stepping stone to becoming a better person around the nitch of the investment.
Everybody that have invested in Bitcoin many years ago must have understand one or two things about Bitcoin with enough experience to show for it.
There is nothing wrong with attempting to use bitcoin, yet it seems that if you are in your earliest years of bitcoin accumulation, you need to consider bitcoin as a spend and replace system, so that you are ongoingly building your bitcoin holdings for 1-2 cycles or even more than that. It can take people a long time to build up an investment portfolio, whether they are focusing on bitcoin or if they might have some other kinds of assets in their investment portfolio.
Surely, bitcoin is amongst the best, if not the best, of assets that is currently available to everyone and anyone, so there may be needs to prioritize holding bitcoin and spending with other assets and/or currencies, so we should not be "taking profits" from our bitcoin until we build our bitcoin holdings up to a certain size that might be considered excessive.. which goes back to the idea of bitcoin as an investment and even bitcoin as a place that we try to fold any profits back into it (or just let the past profits to continue to compound within the bitcoin holdings rather than depleting our bitcoin).
Even though bitcoin is not guaranteed to continue to be profitable, it still seems that if you continue to focus on and emphasize building up your bitcoin holdings, then at some certain point down the road, you will likely get to a point that you have enough or more than enough, and you can shift over from accumulation to maintenance and then later from maintenance to sustainable withdrawal. Bitcoin is likely to continue to be very powerful to attempt to utilize in a way of building it up before starting to spend from too much of it too early.
A person is likely going to be much better off to save up for a house in bitcon and perhaps buy the house later rather than buying it too soon and then deferring his accumulation of bitcoin, whether in the USA or in other places.
Sure the housing market is going to be different from place to place, and the availability of credit is also going to be different from place to place too.
I will rather invest enough in Bitcoin and other profitable investments than rush to get my dream house. Having a personal house is a liability to me because I will always pay taxes whether I like it or not. Having multiple investments has been a dream I need to accomplish and I've been working on that.
You are likely correct in the perspective that it may well not be good to lock up too much capital in a house too soon in our lives, especiallly if we can recognize and appreciate bitcoin to be a superior place to put value.
It also may be best to focus on bitcoin and cash first before either diluting your investment or getting too scatter brained in regards to wanting to own a bunch of assets when bitcoin is likely the best (not guaranteed) places to put your time, energies and value.. yet of course, in the end it is up to you to decide how you want to proceed with your bitcoin allocation... including if you might have already invested in other assets, you might want to consider the extent that it is good to continue to hang onto those other investments or to spend some time building your bitcoin investment first.
It can be difficult to figure out when it might be acceptable to start to diversify outside of bitcoin, and each of us is responsible for our choices in regards to how we might weigh our allocations.. I personally think that trying to focus on getting a year of your expenses into bitcoin first before having any need to diversify out, and if you are ONLY investing around 10% of your income, it could take 10 years to get to a point of having had invested 1 year of your income into bitcoin.. yet surely there are folks who have higher levels of discretionary income that allows them to invest into bitcoin at higher rates.
Investments is meant to bring more money to me and when they are in multiples, would save me the stress and fear of getting broke again. Billionaires always think about investment, investment, investment and that is why people like Elon will continue becoming richer because they are ready to invest more without a second thought.
The extent that you are wanting to invest into areas in which you are actively involved (which seemed to have had been Elon's approach) or if you might be earning income in other ways and investing into bitcoin, these are somewhat different paths forward, so whether or not you are taking a business man path forward or if you are working for someone will depend on where you are at and/or if you are training for future work versus if you are already in an area of work that you might already be earning decently good income.
I get inspired when I see Philipma1957 posts about investing in silver some few years ago and making huge profits from it.
Bitcoin would have probably been better, but hey if you want to get involved with silver, copper, gold or any other commodity that is your choice. It may or may not work out.
This is an example of diversification of investment and never to keep your eggs in one basket alone even though he has investments in Bitcoin and other solid minerals. Great inspiration I must express!
I doubt that Philip is a good role model in terms of how to balance out investing into bitcoin versus investing in other kinds of things, yet of course, it is your choice if you think that you might invest into something that also involves your labor, then you might consider that you are being more productive rather than just focusing on ways to increase your income in other ways in order to focus on accumulating bitcoin.
Even though Philip says that he has improved his methods since 2017, I imagine that many of us bitcoiners consider that he is insufficiently lacking in his focus on accumulating bitcoin rather than seeming to overly emphasize on trading it.. Of course each of us have to consider various ways that we might make enough money to pay for our expenses, and so then once our expenses are covered, then we can decide put decent portions of our discretionary income into bitcoin and to continue to accumulate bitcoin. I doubt that it is justified to trade bitcoin before building our bitcoin stash up to a high enough level, and of course each of us has to consider how much bitcoin is enough or more than enough and/or how to valuate our holdings in order to figure out if we might authorize ourselves to sell portions of it (whether spend and replace or maybe spending without expectations to replace)..
I like the Wo.
Proud member since 2018.
First post and got bullied (of course), but stayed because I did recognise the incredible value here.
I like Buddy Streaks and the buddy stopping posts.
I like the Haikus and corn observing.
I like the lateral humor of this thread.
I like the strange things (no, not the d*ck pics) posted here.
Please, keep the politics out of here.
Who am I to disagree with your posts, but this is a clean space.
I think some politics and weaving in of current events is acceptable, but posters should at least attempt to relate them to bitcoin.. and yeah, even older time WO folks are guilty of going off on long tangents of quasi-irrelevant topics, so much of that is tolerated to the extent that it is not pumping/dumping some shitcoin and/or some persistence in pumping some nonsense agenda.. . and even we have had some historical posters who stayed mostly off topic for decently long periods of time, before they were either banned or maybe they just ended up self-deporting... like they weren't having fun here anymore (Ie.. Jorge Stolfi, but at least his were related to bitcoin bashing and the same with notlambchop.. he was tending to ongoingly bash on bitcoin.. even Roach was a bitter no coiner who had other topics that he wanted to spew.).
Did I miss the AlcoHoDL Sunday Executive WO Haiku Summary (ASEWOHS) between all the political bickering??
Ofc not demanding, just politely asking
Haiku summary
at sundays, makes this place home
missing it alot.
Not gonna rant much
but not your keys not your coins
say no no to ETFs^ I guess a healthy bit of bullying should still be fine as long as its non-political or remotely bitcoin related, right?Regarding your small text. I remember that one time I complained to a mod (and/or other person of authority) that some post had gone overboard in terms of its seeming to imply physical violence, yet sometimes we can differ in our opinions in regards to the extent that a post or two crosses over into problematic areas.
Still two weeks to go.
Save your seeds (and passphrases).
ATH this month!
Oh my!!!!
That is bold. I suspect less than 50/50 odds, but still odds that are not feeling strong enough for me to be inspired to propose a bet.
[edited out]
This week is still fresh
You expect new ATH
I am quite sure, too
I am not going to bite, even though crawling back up from $107.2k over the past two weeks could create enough momentum to get back into ATH territories.
For sure it is not out of the question, but I get too nervous expecting those kinds of things, even though i have been having the sense that the price is being held down, but it is still too hard to really have confidence.. merely because we have crawled nearly half way back from our $107.2k low from two-ish weeks ago.
Partially OT:
Gemini exchange ipo-ed last week (GEMI) with $3.8 bil valuation. I have an account, but rarely trade there.
Long term, I don't see how it can prosper considering their relatively small volumes.
Their loss was around $300mil last Q and with just $425mil raised in the IPO, so the math is against them.
The best scenario would be for them to quickly merge, maybe with a bank that want some exposure to this sector, or declare themselves a "treasury company".
It would not be easy.
Twins were tense during Fox business interview (
https://www.foxbusiness.com/media/gemini-co-founders-tout-golden-age-innovation-amid-trumps-pro-crypto-policies).
Also, for some reason they called the company "Gemini space station" and when prodded by the interviewer (L. Claman), said that it is because "crypto is money for space and Mars; it's multi-planetary money", which sounded a bit wacky for right now.
They are seeming to lose touch (vision) with who brought them to the dance.. so therefore loss of focus and too much emphasis on various shitcoin projects... which may well promise short term profits but still distract from the path. It is a tough business, especially once they have gone down those various shitcoin paths with the pursuit of trading "fees"or other perks that might seem to come from launching and/or getting into various side-projects.
[...]
BTC has utility gold hasn't, like portability, absolute ownership (you can take BTC with you when you die) etc
[...]
That's an interesting property of Bitcoin, that I never really thought about. It's true, you can die and take the keys with you, which is equivalent to making a donation to the Bitcoin community, equally distributed among all BTC holders. Nice!
I am actually actively thinking about it. Some people want to give it to their progeny, but I have serious doubts that mine would be able to do anything positive with it.
I will be making a first test: giving a fraction to one of my sons and then observe what he will do with it. Age-wise, it seems timely.
I already asked in the hypothetical and the answer was encouraging, but the real "practice' would show.
There is always a managerial aspect that might even come with a trust.. and then to figure out targeted beneficiaries... We can see how a lifelong income in bitcoin might not incentivize good characteristics. I have a bit of the same concern, yet we know how much bitcoin grows that we could divide into various smaller pockets in order to attempt to keep each pocket relatively modest, but then each pocket may well end up growing in outrageous ways, too.
[...]BTC has utility gold hasn't, like portability, absolute ownership (you can take BTC with you when you die) etc[...]
That's an interesting property of Bitcoin, that I never really thought about. It's true, you can die and take the keys with you, which is equivalent to making a donation to the Bitcoin community, equally distributed among all BTC holders. Nice!
I am actually actively thinking about it. Some people want to give it to their progeny, but I have serious doubts that mine would be able to do anything positive with it.
I will be making a first test: giving a fraction to one of my sons and then observe what he will do with it. Age-wise, it seems timely.
I already asked in the hypothetical and the answer was encouraging, but the real "practice' would show.
Yep, these sound like my struggles, too. Only one child of mine knows that i hold Bitcoin (not how many), but only asked on a few occasions about the price.
My other children don't even know about me being a Bitcoiner.
For me, i found out that it's not that important what they might do with the corn in the end, as long as it's not some evil shit or about the wrong type of drug(s).
I will try to teach them how to handle the corn to maintain a good life and still having enough reserves to reach those extra goals, but i will also tell them that it always feels better to do some work to achieve something, not to only "buy it".
(EDIT: Which could be quite a challenge, with all that ADHD in my family, that makes them gravitate towards impulse-purchases a lot...)
So many folks have discipline and self-organizational skills, yet sometimes they will grow out of it.. yet at the same time, if they believe that they have something coming or that they are entitled to something coming, then they might be disincentivized in terms of their own self-improvement efforts.
What i also thought about was transferring the corn to a notary as a custodian, who could release parts of the treasure to my children for a defined range of purposes, following a set of rules i would define.
Most Notaries would be Crypto Bitcoin-aware within the next decade, i guess.
That is like the creation of a Trust, which also does not necessarily work out and sometimes Trusts are broken (dissolved and/or with court permission) upon the death (or sometimes soon after the death) of the creator of the Trust.
Poll
