HashFast announces specs for new ASIC: 400GH/s

[cedivad]

I will play devil's advocate here, just for a second.

The MPP wasn't sold with a clear delivery date. If you want, it was, but the wording was studied to be argued by their lawyers later. Without delivery date, you don't have a way to value the boards, and thus, no valid claim.

What is depressing to think about is that if they delivered to us the MPP chips (and not boards) in January, we would have made our investment back with a minimal additional expense.

But they felt like they needed those chip themselves, and that we couldn't have them even by paying the boards costs.

Depressing.

[vokain]

However, if you paid for MPP , I feel like you're at least entitled to that amount. Therefore, for Batch 1 customers with MPP included, they should at least be entitled to that same dollar value by the company.

[cedivad]

However, if you paid for MPP , I feel like you're at least entitled to that amount. Therefore, for Batch 1 customers with MPP included, they should at least be entitled to that same dollar value by the company.

And don't forget that they will claim that they gifted the MPP to the big majority of their first batch customers, that haven't actually paid for it.
Don't take me wrong, I think that claim to have basis, but I also don't think it will be an easy one.

I see that they spent 100k on lawyers during the last month alone (it's in the latest documents). Will it be possible to do anything to limit them from spending our money to defend their interests?

[Jutarul]

I will play devil's advocate here, just for a second.

The MPP wasn't sold with a clear delivery date. If you want, it was, but the wording was studied to be argued by their lawyers later. Without delivery date, you don't have a way to value the boards, and thus, no valid claim.

What is depressing to think about is that if they delivered to us the MPP chips (and not boards) in January, we would have made our investment back with a minimal additional expense.

But they felt like they needed those chip themselves, and that we couldn't have them even by paying the boards costs.

Depressing.

Yes. Of all the claims out there the MPP is likely the weakest. On the flip side the MPP pretty much provides all the evidence for fraudulent intent there is, because it shows that they tried really hard to scam people out of their bitcoins.

[vokain]

However, if you paid for MPP , I feel like you're at least entitled to that amount. Therefore, for Batch 1 customers with MPP included, they should at least be entitled to that same dollar value by the company.

And don't forget that they will claim that they gifted the MPP to the big majority of their first batch customers, that haven't actually paid for it.
Don't take me wrong, I think that claim to have basis, but I also don't think it will be an easy one.

I see that they spent 100k on lawyers during the last month alone (it's in the latest documents). Will it be possible to do anything to limit them from spending our money to defend their interests?

discussing now

[ninjarobot]

I filed a claim for unpaid Batch 1 MPP today.  I valued it at $6000 per Babyjet, calculated as 4 x BJ upgrade card @ $1500 each.  I hope that others with the MPP will do likewise. 

I did the same.

[perezoso]

However, if you paid for MPP , I feel like you're at least entitled to that amount. Therefore, for Batch 1 customers with MPP included, they should at least be entitled to that same dollar value by the company.

And don't forget that they will claim that they gifted the MPP to the big majority of their first batch customers, that haven't actually paid for it.
Don't take me wrong, I think that claim to have basis, but I also don't think it will be an easy one.

I don't at all agree that there was a lack of a delivery date on the MPP nor that the absence of a specific date means you have "no valid claim".

On the contrary.  I ordered my BJ *after* the MPP was announced, and the MPP pledge of "up to 4x" hashrate was definitely part of what I bought.  Now, I will agree that Hashfast was slippery about the MPP delivery date and this makes valuation a little more difficult than other orders, but certainly Hashfast ackknowldged owing the whole 4x, and it was pledged to be delivered within the timeframe during which it was useful.  That was the whole point of the MPP.  

So, what does/did a board cost?  $1500 a few weeks later when they came up for sale.  I think that's a reasonable number.  I suppose an alternative approach would be to take the exact bitcoin earned by the BJ within the calculation period, and then subtract the USD value of that bitcoin from the purchase price.

So, for example, if I paid $5750 for my BJ, but the BJ only mined $1500 worth of BTC in the MPP calculation period, then I could value my claim at $4250?

At the end of the day whether the claim is for $6000 or something like $4250, I doubt that makes much difference.  The point is just maybe we could agree on a reasonable method for calculating it.  Thinking about it, I kind of like the Cost - Actual BTC mined in MPP period = Claim formula better than $6000.  I may amend my court claim.  I just don't know if I can accurately reconstruct the exact BTC value the BJ generated in the specified period.

But there's no question in my mind as to the legitimacy of the claim in principle.  The MPP was explcitly part of the package I bought.

[cedivad]

One of the reasons why I refused that pity shipment in January is because of the unclear terms of the MPP. But you don't have to convince me, I'm with you

On the contrary.  I ordered my BJ *after* the MPP was announced, and the MPP pledge of "up to 4x" hashrate was definitely part of what I bought.  Now, I will agree that Hashfast was slippery about the MPP delivery date and this makes valuation a little more difficult than other orders, but certainly Hashfast ackknowldged owing the whole 4x, and it was pledged to be delivered within the timeframe during which it was useful.  That was the whole point of the MPP.  

So, what does/did a board cost?  $1500 a few weeks later when they came up for sale.  I think that's a reasonable number.  I suppose an alternative approach would be to take the exact bitcoin earned by the BJ within the calculation period, and then subtract the USD value of that bitcoin from the purchase price.

You didn't paid $1500 each per 4 boards. You were offered them. At an undefined date. So, they have an undefined value. You can't take a number out of it's context only because they were selling boards at that price (with an anticipated delivery date and a date after which, if undelivered, you could have asked for a refund (and only for a refund)). That's why I don't think the claim to be valid. But again, I don't want to argue this, I have no reason to.

Btw, hearing today.

[cedivad]

Whether inadvertently or otherwise, the Debtors have failed to disclose the existence and/or the status of a number of accounts which are unique to the Bitcoin space, and which could contain Bitcoin, cash, or both.


I hope you to have proofs of this, because I don't.

Accordingly, the Committee requests that the Debtors disclose all information about their Bitcoin accounts, including, but not limited to: the Bitcoin wallet software, services or mechanisms they currently use and/or have used in the past; the Bit-pay accounts they use and/or have used in the past; the Bitcoin address(es) used to send, receive or store Bitcoin; all accounts with third-party Bitcoin wallet services, exchanges or payment processors; and all individuals and entities that have or had access to any Bitcoin account or wallet.

And I hope to have a copy of all of this.

[Airwhale]

At the end of the day whether the claim is for $6000 or something like $4250, I doubt that makes much difference.  The point is just maybe we could agree on a reasonable method for calculating it.  Thinking about it, I kind of like the Cost - Actual BTC mined in MPP period = Claim formula better than $6000.  I may amend my court claim.  I just don't know if I can accurately reconstruct the exact BTC value the BJ generated in the specified period.

This might help:
http://retrocalc.net/

[Micky25]

some weeks after the first batch, the MPP was offered as an option and for a certain $ amount I don't remember and I'm too tired to look up. Maybe someone has that information and its a hint for its worth.

[vokain]

some weeks after the first batch, the MPP was offered as an option and for a certain $ amount I don't remember and I'm too tired to look up. Maybe someone has that information and its a hint for its worth.

I said this a few posts back but I don't quite recall the number either.

[Micky25]

I did this tiresome and quite depressing trip back to the past (you won't believe how many hits a search for "mpp" gets in this thread) and dug out this, probably unrewarding information:

Here is a question about MPP v2:

A November Baby Jet costs $ 2760 without MPP and $ 4560 with MPP. This means the MPP costs $ 1800.

If the Bitcoin network hashrate increases so that your Baby Jet doesn’t generate more Bitcoins in ninety days than you paid for it, HashFast will give you additional ASICs.

What amount is covered by the MPP? $ 2760 for the BJ or $ 4560 for the BJ + MPP?

[cedivad]

Reading Karpeles' q/a is a continued deja-vu...

[cedivad]

http://hashfast.org/14-30725.109.mp3

The interesting part is at around half, with their ridiculous "up to 1k chips per customers" without confronting with the committee, but don't worry, because they would try to get the court approval for more than 1k chips per customers. Or with siddiqui trying to complain and the judge calming it down.

[Jutarul]

http://hashfast.org/14-30725.109.mp3

The interesting part is at around half, with their ridiculous "up to 1k chips per customers" without confronting with the committee, but don't worry, because they would try to get the court approval for more than 1k chips per customers. Or with siddiqui trying to complain and the judge calming it down.

I think it is obvious that they don't want to sell the chips before they're worthless. The question is what kind of weird game they're playing. Maybe they just need time to hide the tracks.

[cedivad]

I think it is obvious that they don't want to sell the chips before they're worthless. The question is what kind of weird game they're playing. Maybe they just need time to hide the tracks.

They are already worthless, and you should know better than everyone else. They had almost 6 months to hide tracks, and they have already proved that they are unable to come up with a working cover story (because there can't be one, not because they didn't tried), so how much more time do they need? Are they waiting for a miracle?

[Gyrsur]

At the end of the day whether the claim is for $6000 or something like $4250, I doubt that makes much difference.  The point is just maybe we could agree on a reasonable method for calculating it.  Thinking about it, I kind of like the Cost - Actual BTC mined in MPP period = Claim formula better than $6000.  I may amend my court claim.  I just don't know if I can accurately reconstruct the exact BTC value the BJ generated in the specified period.

This might help:
http://retrocalc.net/

calculation of this tool is too optimistic. never got this high return in real life.

[Ilan1]

Hi does anyone know the URL for the online court file? Ray Gallo said that the court clerk puts filed creditor correspondence into this file, which is available online, and items filed get emailed to lawyers on the case with accounts, and those who have filed requests for notice.

[pmorici]

Hi does anyone know the URL for the online court file? Ray Gallo said that the court clerk puts filed creditor correspondence into this file, which is available online, and items filed get emailed to lawyers on the case with accounts, and those who have filed requests for notice.

You need to sign up for an account with Pacer.  Once you have that you can login to Pacer and go to the Query page for the Bankruptcy court for Northern California.

Search for 'Hashfast' or the main case number, 3:14-bk-30725

That will take you to a screen with a bunch of links the two most interesting are the "History/Documents" link that has all the filings from lawyers and the audio files of the hearings (as attachments to PDFs).  There is also the "Claims Register" section that has all the proof of claim forms everyone is sending in.