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Author Topic: Black Arrow 28nm 100Ghash Bitcoin ASIC from $0.49/GH/s  (Read 787806 times)
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bobsag3
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February 20, 2014, 03:15:31 PM
 #2301

Latest UPDATE from BA

Progress update - 20 Feb 2014
1.Following Verisilicon’s tapeout final review meeting it was decided that they need to update the IO and metal according to Analog IO team requirement. VeriSilicon needs additional 36 hours to extract the final specification of GDS and run STA. At the same time FE needs to run POSTSim based on the final Netlist. As this is a 100 million gate design it requires intensive CPU support. VeriSilicon agreed to work over the weekend to maintain our working schedule and are confident that the files will be sent to the factory in 36 hours.
2.We finished the hash board for X1. We will review and send to the factory tomorrow. The board was designed for a maximum of 160A (exceeding the 88A @ 0.85V required).
3.Each X3 module will use 5 hashboards and will have 2 Minion ASICs. This solution was chosen to support the high current (up to 33 Amperes @ 12V) required by the power chips. Another issue which we had to overcome was the fact that the smaller connectors already available on the market were either too big or had too few pins to support a single ASIC hash board 35mm wide. We are in the process of designing 2 different boards for the X3 hashboard: 2 x 160A and 2 x 200A to support extreme overclocking. The final decision of which PCB we will use will be taken after we’ve tested the real silicon.
4.We have finished the control board for X1 & X3 and will send it tomorrow to the factory. 3 months ago we decided against using Raspberry PI or Beagle Bone. RPI proved too unreliable during extensive usage and none of them would satisfy our requirements. We’ve opted instead to design our own board based on ARM chip. This task was equivalent of designing a whole new Raspberry PI and was major design work. We are convinced that our customer will benefit the extra features.
5.We have entrusted AMKOR for packaging the Minion. We had several meetings last week in order to choose the best package and have decided to go with Stiffener FCBGA instead of Lidded FCBGA as previously announced; this package provides better cooling performance and will have extra capacitors on the substrate.
6.We’ve maintained a very busy meetings schedule with VeriSilicon to clarify the PO and packaging.
7.Following the feedback of our case designers we have hold a meeting with the PSU factory and agreed:
a.To shorten the PSU for the X1 with 10mm in order to get closer to our 200x200x70mm case target.
b.To reduce the height of the X3 PSU by 20mm in order to be able put the Ethernet connector in the back of the case.
8.We have increased the heatsink fins thickness to 0.5mm, asked the factory to produce 2 samples (1.8mm spacing and 2mm spacing).
9.We have met with potential resellers but this cannot go on. We receive so many meetings requests and unfortunately we will have no option but to decline them as our management team has more pressing issues to deal with currently; our commitment is with our existing customers and ensuring the sold products are delivered. We will review this process at later stage.
10.Two months ago we have decided to add up extra features for Prospero products and we’re developing them. The project is on schedule and we aim to have a beta version by 1st of May.
11.We have synthesised our FPGA LTC code and it is mining correctly with 4 cores.
12.Our 1st line customer support team are struggling with the volume of messages posted by our customers. We have sent a representative to Philippines for few days for further training. The initial feedback is encouraging, the current procedures are currently under review and we expect improvements soon.
13.The number of the messages on the forum is overwhelming and we are not in the position to address all of it. Despite all of our efforts we’ll only be able to answer only a proportion
14.We have completed the design and manufacture of the banners for the Texax Bitcoin Conference. http://texasbitcoinconference.com/ . This announcement confirms that we will be present there; Minersource, Our reseller from USA, will represent us.
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February 20, 2014, 03:44:12 PM
 #2302

What does this mean?

10.Two months ago we have decided to add up extra features for Prospero products and we’re developing them. The project is on schedule and we aim to have a beta version by 1st of May.
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February 20, 2014, 03:48:17 PM
 #2303

Two months ago we have decided to add up extra features for Prospero products and we’re developing them. The project is on schedule and we aim to have a beta version by 1st of May.

A beta version by May 1st?  So does that mean you're not shipping finished products by May like promised???

CharityAuction
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ColdScam
bobsag3
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February 20, 2014, 03:49:49 PM
 #2304

Two months ago we have decided to add up extra features for Prospero products and we’re developing them. The project is on schedule and we aim to have a beta version by 1st of May.

A beta version by May 1st?  So does that mean you're not shipping finished products by May like promised???

Do you see the "extra features" part? Not the miners themselves, but the extra features will be in beta.
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February 20, 2014, 03:53:04 PM
 #2305

Two months ago we have decided to add up extra features for Prospero products and we’re developing them. The project is on schedule and we aim to have a beta version by 1st of May.

A beta version by May 1st?  So does that mean you're not shipping finished products by May like promised???

Do you see the "extra features" part? Not the miners themselves, but the extra features will be in beta.

Sorry, misunderstood the phrasing.  I'm guessing this isn't your words, so it can be taken out of context to mean the miners themselves will be beta.

Usually in the tech world, beta means a few months away from production.  Hoping you and BA pull through for us.

CharityAuction
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ColdScam
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February 20, 2014, 04:28:44 PM
 #2306

Here is what I gathered and questions I have...
-Tape Out has not happened and is being delayed by about a day and a half?
Yes.

Quote
-All the previous board designs and case designs, and heatsink designs, and fan designs, and power supply designs, and internal arrangement designs were wrong and are being changed.
We take the extra time to make them better. We could have delivered a working version by now but we decided not to sleep on it.

Quote
-Boards will be able to handle extreme overclocking, but we will have to supply our own power supplies (I believe we should be given upgraded power supplies as part of the compensation package so that we can run overclocked and have a chance to make positive ROI, but thats just me)

No, the PSU has been upgraded as well. We expect that 1400watt running at 80% load (for maximum efficiency) for 10 minions to yield 1200-1400 Ghash.


Quote
Questions?Huh
-Will we get a special update in 36 hours when tape out actually happens?
yes

Quote
-What is this "extra feature" prospero?  Is this a different line of chips?  If so, why is engineering time being diverted to this and not to getting your original line completed?  What are the "special features"? 
It's software. Features provided by different team of engineers. We will not announce what it does until delivery.

Quote
Will Batch 1 be given free upgrades to this "special chip" for having to wait? 
What special chip?

Quote
-For the layman, what does it mean that you synthesised the FPGA LTC code?  Will these be dual miners now?  Or is this a different product line, which again reverts to why is engineering time being spent on other things when you are delayed your customers by over 2 months?
Different product, different engineers, no preorders.

Quote
-Is our warranty voided if we overclock the prospero chip? 
If you change the voltage over specs, yes.
If overclocked more than our specs, yes.

Quote
For batch 1 people, overclocking seems like the only way to make a positive ROI (or at least have a better chance at it), can we get warrenty for overclocking our machines?  And how about upgraded PSU's that can handle overclocking?
We sell and manufacture hardware. We cannot advice you on your ROI or any other finance/investment issues. A chip will do as much as it has been designed for, not more. We are unable to offer warranty if someone burns their chips while on steroids.


We manufacture Bitcoin ASICs and Bitcoin mining equipment.
http://www.blackarrowsoftware.com
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February 20, 2014, 05:43:35 PM
 #2307

While I'm appreciative of the new level of communication, it is now clear that BA has bitten off WAY more than they can chew.  Redesigning a control board when a RasPi and BeagleBone Black are readily available?  How will this help you deliver more quickly? 

Refund requested from Minersource.  Fingers crossed.
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February 20, 2014, 05:57:08 PM
 #2308

While I'm appreciative of the new level of communication, it is now clear that BA has bitten off WAY more than they can chew.  Redesigning a control board when a RasPi and BeagleBone Black are readily available?  How will this help you deliver more quickly? 

Refund requested from Minersource.  Fingers crossed.

Embedding the equivalent of a Raspberry Pi into your own hardware is not a big deal any more.  It hasn't been for some time, only now it's a whole lot cheaper thanks to the introduction, and success of the Pi.  The extra effort just goes to show BA are in this for the long haul.
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February 20, 2014, 07:00:46 PM
 #2309

Redesigning a control board when a RasPi and BeagleBone Black are readily available?  How will this help you deliver more quickly?  


this would be a great delaying tactic if there were never to be any product in the first place.
at THIS point in time. just saying.

tips    1APp826DqjJBdsAeqpEstx6Q8hD4urac8a
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February 20, 2014, 07:23:12 PM
 #2310

Wait, so 1400W for 1200-1400Ghash ? (1/2 of a prospero X3)

Isn't that your original design ? Shouldn't the new design be 1400W for the 2.4Ghash (1 full prospero, 0.6W/Ghs) as it was stated in the mail).


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February 20, 2014, 07:45:26 PM
 #2311

Redesigning a control board when a RasPi and BeagleBone Black are readily available?  How will this help you deliver more quickly?  


this would be a great delaying tactic if there were never to be any product in the first place.
at THIS point in time. just saying.




could be.  I don't know that this is the time limiter on this project however.

From that standpoint, as long as we're waiting for things to get built that should have been built 2 months ago, can I suggest we install a beer tap on these things.    The cold beer can be run through the units and used to cool the chips when you're overclocking in order to frantically try to recover your money spent on these.

Of course we know that overclocking, while possible, voids your warranty, so don't do that.  And no-one should expect to get their money back, as this is not a financial services company.  And don't ask for a refund.  Well you can, but you might or might not get it, as we can't figure that out over the course of a month or more.

With this liquor enabled miner at least the end user can get a buzz on while watching their money go down the drain and pondering how a company that names it's currency producing products 'Prospero', can then turn around and tell people they shouldn't expect to prosper from them.

Maybe we should call it Sinkhole at this point.  Truth in advertising and all that good stuff.




their whole update just reads like;

'f*ck you - we have your money, what you going to do about it?'
gotta feel for the guys n gals who put their money into this, whether they get their miners in the end or not is actually irrelevant now.

tips    1APp826DqjJBdsAeqpEstx6Q8hD4urac8a
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February 20, 2014, 08:03:16 PM
 #2312

Maybe they added LTC mining to the chips and that's what the software bonus is going to also include.  (I know, fat chance of that.)

I appreciate the updates and the honesty of what is going on.  Please continue to do this.


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February 20, 2014, 08:36:46 PM
 #2313

Maybe they added LTC mining to the chips and that's what the software bonus is going to also include.  (I know, fat chance of that.)

I appreciate the updates and the honesty of what is going on.  Please continue to do this.



That's pretty conceivable.  Maybe that's the surprise that BobSag3 was referring to a few days ago.

If they can mine both SHA-256 and decent Scrypt speed without a loss in performance, might be worth the wait.

CharityAuction
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February 20, 2014, 08:45:56 PM
 #2314

Maybe they added LTC mining to the chips and that's what the software bonus is going to also include.  (I know, fat chance of that.)

I appreciate the updates and the honesty of what is going on.  Please continue to do this.



That's pretty conceivable.  Maybe that's the surprise that BobSag3 was referring to a few days ago.

If they can mine both SHA-256 and decent Scrypt speed without a loss in performance, might be worth the wait.

They answered this question last page, the current production line will not incorporate Scrypt mining.  They are working on a scrypt miner (different project, different engineers) presumably paid by our pre order money...
The surprise they said was software related, but they will not tell us what it is until release.  So....we are back to withholding information.  IMHO releasing as much info as possible is their best bet right now, but they have our money and probably will just disregard that statement.

Understood, hard to keep track with this thread sometimes as it gets derailed by whether Matt Carson takes a dump in Missouri or Colorado or if has a tool shed in Wyoming.  Gets dizzying.

Just want facts, Q&A, not conspiracy theories.

CharityAuction
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ColdScam
raskul
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February 20, 2014, 09:05:46 PM
 #2315



Do you have any more renders?





Wa-hahaha  Grin  Wink



stop it, these guys have paid a lot of money to these crooks.

tips    1APp826DqjJBdsAeqpEstx6Q8hD4urac8a
ghcannon
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February 20, 2014, 09:09:17 PM
 #2316

Wait, so 1400W for 1200-1400Ghash ? (1/2 of a prospero X3)

Isn't that your original design ? Shouldn't the new design be 1400W for the 2.4Ghash (1 full prospero, 0.6W/Ghs) as it was stated in the mail).

I'll repost this once in a while until I get a response. I really hope it is a typo.
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February 20, 2014, 09:27:37 PM
 #2317


On that date in February we will sell cheaper than our competition. This is our promise.


This leads to a few questions that should be answered as they may become relevant.
First, what metric will be used to determine that they are "cheaper than the competition"?  Will it be based on price per gigahash?  Or Watt per Gigahash?  Or some other metric?
Second, if it is Watt per Gigahash, then we will need clarification on final specs (1400 watts per 1 TH/s or for a full X-3)
Third, how will this be handled?  You promised!  But so far your only guarantee is that if you drop the price on your website, which any sane person, even  if orders stop coming in, wouldn't do as it would create a liability of more X-3's owed.  So really, that is just manipulative talk, as you do not have to drop the price for any reason, even if your competition is priced better.

and if;

28nm 100Ghash Bitcoin ASIC from $1.99/GH/s, miners from $2.97/GH/s is the opening price, then the february price should be less than this.

tips    1APp826DqjJBdsAeqpEstx6Q8hD4urac8a
ghcannon
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February 20, 2014, 10:00:56 PM
 #2318

@PG & Co , at first I really thought you may be looking out for ppl, because of some really selfless reason.

No person with those aims will go to the extent you're going. If you don't pursue an angenda and you're not getting paid by someone, then stop here and now and let events unfold.
Whoever ordered from BA and opened this thread at least once has now surely seen all the evidence, links, accounts, whatever info you posted.

People have made their choice whether to refund or not and now it's time for the people the blindly decided to stick with their orders to have their thread back so they can get a bit more attention from the representatives/resellers that post vary rarely anyway.

Thank you.

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February 20, 2014, 10:11:44 PM
 #2319


On that date in February we will sell cheaper than our competition. This is our promise.


Note the selling part, it says nothing about shipping.  Cool
ghcannon
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February 20, 2014, 10:30:20 PM
 #2320

Well at least you got one small part right - unlike you, who apparently is aimlessly continuing to come to this topic and post even tho you have no order with BA, I do have an agenda - it is to get answers to questions that havent been answered yet, because I have an active order with BA. Actually it would seem that I'm totally insane because i have 2 orders.

Which is exactly the reason why I asked you to chill the hell down with your conspiracies (i'm not even putting that  word in brackets!) so my question can get seen by BA. It's a simple question - one that should not be uncomfortable for them.

You say i could be pursuing agenda to get more ppl to buy BA products ? Were you even thinking when you wrote that ? Do you know what date it is and how mentally incapacitated you'd have to be to order any BA product now ? Not to mention the delay.


@Pentax - and will you be more capable of making a refund decision if you keep getting spammed with information about accounts, warehouses etc .... by PG, or getting some vague answer from BA ?

Question on refunds has been answered already many many times, you're bitching without even going to the fucking official forums !
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