NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information

[wesleyh]

Users of the javascript client will get a JSON notification when the deadline changes. Client developers using the Java API directly can register a listener to receive such notifications, just like it is done in User.java:

Do you mean you will add some sort of HTML5 push notification support to the browser? That would be great!

http://html5hacks.com/blog/2013/04/21/push-notifications-to-the-browser-with-server-sent-events/

I mean, the way the current javascript client is doing it, whatever this technology is called. I didn't plan to touch that part myself, I am not familiar with HTML5 push.

How does your client currently work, only by making javascript calls to the http api? Is it just a bunch of html and javascript files that need to be in a directory served by jetty? Because I am considering switching to embedding jetty in 0.8 or later, but of course need to plan how to accommodate your client.

The current NRS is just polling continuously via javascript, that's different from HTML5 push, where there is 1 open connection and the server (jetty) pushes to the client.

Anyway, my client uses the official API via ajax calls, so yes, it's just bunch of HTML and JS files that need to be in a directory served by jetty.

When I have some more bugs ironed out and some more functionality added, I'll send you a download link to try it.

[SkillRoad]

Users of the javascript client will get a JSON notification when the deadline changes. Client developers using the Java API directly can register a listener to receive such notifications, just like it is done in User.java:

Do you mean you will add some sort of HTML5 push notification support to the browser? That would be great!

http://html5hacks.com/blog/2013/04/21/push-notifications-to-the-browser-with-server-sent-events/

I mean, the way the current javascript client is doing it, whatever this technology is called. I didn't plan to touch that part myself, I am not familiar with HTML5 push.

How does your client currently work, only by making javascript calls to the http api? Is it just a bunch of html and javascript files that need to be in a directory served by jetty? Because I am considering switching to embedding jetty in 0.8 or later, but of course need to plan how to accommodate your client.

The current NRS is just polling continuously via javascript, that's different from HTML5 push, where there is 1 open connection and the server (jetty) pushes to the client.

Anyway, my client uses the official API via ajax calls, so yes, it's just bunch of HTML and JS files that need to be in a directory served by jetty.

When I have some more bugs ironed out and some more functionality added, I'll send you a download link to try it.

Your client is a wonderful

[jl777]

So, I am not so crazy to believe that we can get fully trustless gateways and even automated DACs that can do cross chain operations. I wish you were there last week. I guess I should have reiterated that I got the idea about indistinguishability obsfucators from Vitalik butern's reddit page. I'm not smart enough to understand the maths, but I am smart enough to recognize the potentials of new algos.

you are saying right james, this stuff will come, no doubt about it and it is for sure not crazy to anticipate exactly this what you wrote above.
i anticipate even more. we will see chainable, static serverside contracts, triggered by conditionals and acting like a logic swarm shifting immense data around
and on the other side distributed applications, moveable and freezable, preserving content within the block/storage chain, serving instant user demands.
all within the next two years.  

I didnt actually post all the things I was thinking of, since there was such hostility to the "obvious" things.
Here is one. How about a trustless pizza delivery DAC! Why not? As long as there is a verifiable PoP (proof of pizza) on a dominos.com that gets a txid into the NXT blockchain, we can send NXT and pizza arrives, totally automatically.

This is kind of the possibility I was thinking of when I meant using the NXT blockchain to secure off blockchain actions. In this day and age, what real world item does not have an online purchase mechanism? Any and all such things should be able to be made into a NXTplugin.

James

Edit: Marketers think about the potential of adding automated DAC for an online website. We get the first one, everyone who is hungry orders pizza, orders go through the roof, all the other pizza vendors will want their NXTplugin. Hey, another idea for a company, one that creates these customized plugins.

[l8orre]

Hey NXT'ers - the InsideBitcoin was quite a gratifying experience, I am quite happy for the coincidence that it happened here ein Berlin!

I can only reccomend to go whenever you can get there - Amsterdam, Texas try to go there! I had the networking pass for 114Euro, I really did not care very much for the Bitcoin talks anyway, but I had a number of extremely good conversations.
Paul Snow from Texas Bitcoin Association is a very eloquent and open minded person, I really enjoyed discussing monetary ideas with him.

Another interesting topic that came up was with Frank Tornatore from Cryptoventures, who was very much interested in using coloured coins as a method for casinos in Macao to issue to their mostly chinese customers.


What would you guys think about having a project to provide using some nxt asset 'RED' or 'BLUE' that a casino could issue as gambling chips for their customers?


And could the casino company take the open source nxt code, and start their own blockchain for their customers only?

It would be better if a gateway provided such a service as an Asset within AE. This benefits from NXT infrastructure. Any one off NXT clone network would probably be too small and be subject to attack, especially if they have large amounts of chips.

I imagine there is a good business model for anybody that wants to offer a "colored coins" service. Eg, handle getting the funds in and out of NXT AE. This will be an excellent way for a gateway to monetize their expertise. I would imagine any real world business that is using NXT in this way would have no problems paying a customization fee plus ongoing fixed amount which will more than cover costs. You probably can even negotiate some sort of percentage split of fees.

The more ways we can figure out how companies can use NXT to make money, the better. The better funded the gateways become, the better for all of NXT.

James

Yes, for a casino company, the existing blockchain would probably be best. They would not have to invest in any node backbone infrastructure, and couls just use the existing one.

One concern they WILL have will be though, that they must be sure that if they issue 1000 'RED' chips for $1000, that when the customer comes back 4 weeks later they don't have to pay $2000 to redeem their 1000 'RED'.

That would break that application model for them. So if people started trading casino chips in an 'off label use', that would be detrimental for nxt.

On the other hand, it is up to the casino company how many $ to pay for the 'RED' coins, even if the price in NXT would be floating...

[jl777]

Hey NXT'ers - the InsideBitcoin was quite a gratifying experience, I am quite happy for the coincidence that it happened here ein Berlin!

I can only reccomend to go whenever you can get there - Amsterdam, Texas try to go there! I had the networking pass for 114Euro, I really did not care very much for the Bitcoin talks anyway, but I had a number of extremely good conversations.
Paul Snow from Texas Bitcoin Association is a very eloquent and open minded person, I really enjoyed discussing monetary ideas with him.

Another interesting topic that came up was with Frank Tornatore from Cryptoventures, who was very much interested in using coloured coins as a method for casinos in Macao to issue to their mostly chinese customers.


What would you guys think about having a project to provide using some nxt asset 'RED' or 'BLUE' that a casino could issue as gambling chips for their customers?


And could the casino company take the open source nxt code, and start their own blockchain for their customers only?

It would be better if a gateway provided such a service as an Asset within AE. This benefits from NXT infrastructure. Any one off NXT clone network would probably be too small and be subject to attack, especially if they have large amounts of chips.

I imagine there is a good business model for anybody that wants to offer a "colored coins" service. Eg, handle getting the funds in and out of NXT AE. This will be an excellent way for a gateway to monetize their expertise. I would imagine any real world business that is using NXT in this way would have no problems paying a customization fee plus ongoing fixed amount which will more than cover costs. You probably can even negotiate some sort of percentage split of fees.

The more ways we can figure out how companies can use NXT to make money, the better. The better funded the gateways become, the better for all of NXT.

James

Yes, for a casino company, the existing blockchain would probably be best. They would not have to invest in any node backbone infrastructure, and couls just use the existing one.

One concern they WILL have will be though, that they must be sure that if they issue 1000 'RED' chips for $1000, that when the customer comes back 4 weeks later they don't have to pay $2000 to redeem their 1000 'RED'.

That would break that application model for them. So if people started trading casino chips in an 'off label use', that would be detrimental for nxt.

On the other hand, it is up to the casino company how many $ to pay for the 'RED' coins, even if the price in NXT would be floating...

This ties in exactly with what BCNext was saying, issuing coins whose value is constant. The casino would issue $100 chips. Any deposit/withdrawal would convert the fiat deposit into NXT into casino chips, at current market prices for NXT. As long as there is a liquid market for NXT against everything, this will work beautifully. This is why it is so important to unify all the Assets that are for the same thing. That creates the most liquid market and tighest spreads

We also WANT big companies and small countries to create NXT nodes. THAT is what BCNext was saying!!!

The people that are using NXT (directly and mostly indirectly) are the ones that are motivated to add nodes and thus securing the network. At any given time the NXT network + new nodes will always be more secure than just "new nodes", so the rational thing is for all new NXT adopters to add to the existing NXT network.

Our marketing must be VERY clear on this point!!!

James

[xyzzyx]

I hear the people in this topic have decided to switch to a 0.1 Nxt fee?  I've done some math and that would be only be enough to allow use to break even if we had ~50 forgers at a time.  Point is, it's way too low.

Fee structure proposal
0.4% transaction fee
0.05 Nxt per message
30 Nxt per alias registration

Didn't want to clog up this forum with a long post plus it would be really nice if we could start using other forums instead of everything in one place, no matter how loosely related.

Point is, here's the math and reasoning to back this up:
https://forums.nxtcrypto.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=785

Please go comment and let me know what you think about these numbers!

'

impossible. system is not designed to work this way. nightmare. give it up.

I'm starting to rethink my .1 fee vote, at least until client, AE, and coin trading are implemented and we are hitting at least BTC level of volume.

Suck it up, pay the 5 cents.

I view the fee as a blockchain spam deterrent, any possible ROI is secondary IMHO.  We don't have any major activity on the blockchain at the moment.  All is relatively quiet, but that will change as services are added and merchants begin to use NXT for payment.  After only a few short months of very little activity the full blockchain is already over 50 megs on disk.

I think the fee should only be changed if the price of NXT goes up significantly.  My 0.25 NXT minimum fee vote was based on the thought of 1 NXT going to the stable range of $0.15 to ~$0.30 US in the next six months.

  

[TwinWinNerD]

With our asset exchange would it be possible to issue an asset like a "buck". Where for each buck, the issure holds 1 USD. I know that a fiat gateway has some very serious limitations, but if the issuer only holds USD (and someone even verifies that) and it is not really possible to redeem those "bucks", then this would be a nice way of introducing a shorting instrument. The price of 1 buck would be always near 1 real dollar because of arbitrage.

Possible?

[opticalcarrier]

Who wants to use real live SSL certificates with NRS?  Instructions on creating and using (with NRS's Jetty) a self-signed certificate, or requesting and using a CA-signed certificate (for NRS's Jetty) are in the new Wiki How-to guide
http://wiki.nxtcrypto.org/wiki/How-To:UseSslCerts

[opticalcarrier]

I view the fee as a blockchain spam deterrent, any possible ROI is secondary IMHO.  We don't have any major activity on the blockchain at the moment.  All is relatively quiet, but that will change as services are added and merchants begin to use NXT for payment.  After only a few short months of very little activity the full blockchain is already over 50 megs on disk.

I think the fee should only be changed if the price of NXT goes up significantly.  My 0.25 NXT minimum fee vote was based on the thought of 1 NXT going to the stable range of $0.15 to ~$0.30 cents US in the next six months.

I still say trying to tie the fee to some FIAT is the wrong direction.  Ill say it again - a transactions's fee should be tied to its byte size on the blockchain.  So lets say a NXT transfer is 128bytes, and its fee is .1NXT, so then an AM or alias transaction of size 256bytes should then cost .2NXT, and other transaction types follow the same method of fee determination.  We would determine a "base" transaction that is the smallest possible transaction, and set the .1 NXT fee to it.  (or .01 or .05 or whatever the community decides) and then scale every other transaction's fee to be based on its size compared to the base one.
But no one likes my idea. 

This proposal will require a bit more code; but for the moment I think a straight .1 NXT for all works, as it will encourage more use for now.

[Come-from-Beyond]

this is much more interesting than it seems at first. having private data sections within code would solve many
problems, e.g. to create real smart software agents and also fully trustless gateways.

for those interested in this:
http://bitcoinmagazine.com/10055/cryptographic-code-obfuscation-decentralized-autonomous-organizations-huge-leap-forward/

Thx for the link, the article contained a link that I was looking for - to fully homomorphic encryption that could be used for Coin Mixing.

[CoinTropolis_JustaBitTime]

CfB and Jean-Luc,

"Hello John,

I was looking at the API but it seems like there aren't any APIs for bulk
usage; like returning all of the transactions for all of the accounts held
by the node or the balances of all the accounts. Everything has to be
queried one by one, which I guess wouldn't be a big deal in the early
stages but once there is more volume would be very inefficient.

I haven't looked at the code yet though, so it may not be that hard for me
to add those API calls.

-CoinPayments.net"


Please comment and I'll get that process moving with CoinPayments.

[klee]

http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/2014/02/13/silk-road-2-0-has-been-hacked-and-4474-26-btc-stolen-operator-says-centralized-escrow-system-cant-ever-work/

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2014/02/13/silk-road-2-0-hacked-using-bitcoin-bug-all-its-funds-stolen/?utm_campaign=forbestwittersf&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social

[jl777]

With our asset exchange would it be possible to issue an asset like a "buck". Where for each buck, the issure holds 1 USD. I know that a fiat gateway has some very serious limitations, but if the issuer only holds USD (and someone even verifies that) and it is not really possible to redeem those "bucks", then this would be a nice way of introducing a shorting instrument. The price of 1 buck would be always near 1 real dollar because of arbitrage.

Possible?

I dont think we can setup shorting directly by using an issued asset. A negative value asset would mean that you would be forced to payup when you redeem it, but as the holder of such an asset, I doubt many people would ever redeem it, so there would be a lack of liquidity.

What can be done is to implement something like XCP does with bets to create CFD (contract for difference). This then allows creation of options (call and put) and can then be used to create all sorts of different risk/rewards based on possible price fluctuations.

A put option is close to shorting, there is just the matter of the option premium

It is also possible to directly issue a call option, or put option, or I guess a negative USD Asset, but this opens the whole collateralization issue to ensure that the issuer will be able to pay, regardless of the market fluctuations. Anybody issuing USD puts sold before the coming collapse this summer, will most likely not be able to payup any uncollateralized options

Rather than engineering these derivatives, I think it is much more productive to think about issuing Assets that represent real things, like turtles, eggs, pigs and even cows or a timeshare week on POPPP's farm in France.

In the next year or two, what happened in Greece and Iceland will look like a small blip. USA cannot keep spending money like it is without a severe devaluation or hyperinflation or both, but either will make all the other countries refuse dollars and force USA to pay in something a lot more solid, like CNY or gold, etc. Whether this happens this summer when new capital flight control regulations are enacted, or if it is magically delayed by a year, it will happen. Russia and China are already negotiating with their trading partners to avoid using USD as reserve currency. Being the reserve currency (what international trade is settled in) has given USA about a 40% advantage. Also it is the only country that can change a number in a spreadsheet and voila! all the goods it needs just got paid for. Fiat, gotta love it or hate it.

Such financial collapse will create a massive flight into precious metals, commodities but people will still need to trade and what will they use as money? Gee, I wonder what could be used for money in a post-USD world?

James

P.S. By making it easy to issue real world backed assets within AE, NXT will become the reserve currency. We see BTC acting as this against cryptos, but the potential for NXT is a lot more

[xyzzyx]

I view the fee as a blockchain spam deterrent, any possible ROI is secondary IMHO.  We don't have any major activity on the blockchain at the moment.  All is relatively quiet, but that will change as services are added and merchants begin to use NXT for payment.  After only a few short months of very little activity the full blockchain is already over 50 megs on disk.

I think the fee should only be changed if the price of NXT goes up significantly.  My 0.25 NXT minimum fee vote was based on the thought of 1 NXT going to the stable range of $0.15 to ~$0.30 cents US in the next six months.

I still say trying to tie the fee to some FIAT is the wrong direction.  Ill say it again - a transactions's fee should be tied to its byte size on the blockchain.  So lets say a NXT transfer is 128bytes, and its fee is .1NXT, so then an AM or alias of size 256bytes should cost .2NXT.
But no one likes my idea. 

This proposal will require a bit more code; but for the moment I think a straight .1 NXT for all works, as it will encourage more use for now.

I like your idea.  I think it makes perfect sense.

[wesleyh]

http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/2014/02/13/silk-road-2-0-has-been-hacked-and-4474-26-btc-stolen-operator-says-centralized-escrow-system-cant-ever-work/

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2014/02/13/silk-road-2-0-hacked-using-bitcoin-bug-all-its-funds-stolen/?utm_campaign=forbestwittersf&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social

It would be nice to have a decentralized shops on top of nxt.. I think I saw a mention of this in the NRS client HTML...

[opticalcarrier]

http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/2014/02/13/silk-road-2-0-has-been-hacked-and-4474-26-btc-stolen-operator-says-centralized-escrow-system-cant-ever-work/

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2014/02/13/silk-road-2-0-hacked-using-bitcoin-bug-all-its-funds-stolen/?utm_campaign=forbestwittersf&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social

friggin morons.  its not like they were warned or anything. oh wait...  (friggin morons)

[Eadeqa]

Bitcoins stolen due to the bug

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2014/02/13/silk-road-2-0-hacked-using-bitcoin-bug-all-its-funds-stolen/

I think prices are on their down to under $100

If Nxt has the same issue, address it

[Come-from-Beyond]

CfB and Jean-Luc,

"Hello John,

I was looking at the API but it seems like there aren't any APIs for bulk
usage; like returning all of the transactions for all of the accounts held
by the node or the balances of all the accounts. Everything has to be
queried one by one, which I guess wouldn't be a big deal in the early
stages but once there is more volume would be very inefficient.

I haven't looked at the code yet though, so it may not be that hard for me
to add those API calls.

-CoinPayments.net"


Please comment and I'll get that process moving with CoinPayments.

That's why we need other APIs - Low-end and High-end. They will replace current API - Legacy.

[Mario123]

www.nxtclient.org

It's not finished yet. I didn't put the links in it because I don't know how we will promote them, which is really open source and who's client gets a separate homepage.

If you have any ideas or suggestions for this site: PM me or write here.

I'm no pro web designer but donations are welcome.

Direct links would be a huge help right now.  As I'm walking exchanges through Nxt, this allows them to play with the different options.

I will think about it tonight and will improve it. Thanks.

I updated the links.

www.NXTclient.org

Please leave comments or suggestions!

[xyzzyx]

So what's likely up with these peers:

Code:

...
87.98.163.78      -    0    2'252'772 B   10'260 B    ? (?) @ ?	
185.12.44.108     -    0    110'330 B     1'288 B     ? (?) @ ?	
23.88.104.217     -    0    166'340 B     1'498 B     ? (?) @ ?	
82.209.203.82     -    0    500'940 B     1'857 B     ? (?) @ ?	
198.211.127.34    -    0    159'320 B     1'412 B     ? (?) @ ?
...

Misconfiguration?  Zombies?

Edit: I think I may have more of them in my peer list than I do actual NRS peers.