I hear the people in this topic have decided to switch to a 0.1 Nxt fee? I've done some math and that would be only be enough to allow use to break even if we had ~50 forgers at a time. Point is, it's way too low.
Fee structure proposal0.4% transaction fee
0.05 Nxt per message
30 Nxt per alias registration
Didn't want to clog up this forum with a long post plus it would be really nice if we could start using other forums instead of everything in one place, no matter how loosely related.
Point is, here's the math and reasoning to back this up:
https://forums.nxtcrypto.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=785Please go comment and let me know what you think about these numbers!
That is not a good idea. We don't need forgers to have a positive ROI. Most nodes do run now with negative ROI and it is in the intrerest of each NXT holder to secure the network. Don't forget that we are in the early stage of adoption and the system needs to be bigger to become selfsustainable. If we don't lower the fee significantly, we will not grow as much as most of us would like.
Also it is a community consensus to lower the fee to 0.1 NXT.
My 2 NXT cents
+ my 2 cents now equals 4 cents.
The time for positive ROI will come. It's important. People need to have a reasonable expectation that there will be ROI from forging in the future. But at this time we need to keep our fees low to encourage adoption and forgers should be willing to forge at a loss for the sake of protecting the network they have invested so much time, energy, and resources into.
Good points! I was thinking that this would be temporary solution and we would temporarily re-adjust every few months until we are sustainable and can make our own prices separate from fiat. Plus just using it for now because it makes a good reference point. And we may have to play with the transaction fees to determine the ideal number.
But here it is updated to reflect feedback.
Revised fee structure proposal0.03% with a cap of 0.6 Nxt
0.01 Nxt per message (Can't go and lower and we'll get to the point this is profitable no doubt.. at which point we'll likely adjust back down)
30 Nxt per alias registration (it needs to be higher than 1 Nxt, and people will pay it after all for alias's important to them.. plus it's a different kind of investment that will also gain value alongside Nxt). This should be adjusted down later.
My thought is basically that personally, I selfishly figure that I'll end up with more Nxt if I don't pay extra on the electric bill right now, I can instead buy a few extra Nxt with it.. maybe other people aren't pinching pennies to that extent.
Bigger point though, I think it should be a percentage fee.. because I can imagine that there are some scenarios that would need tiny amounts of Nxt sent between people, for example I came up with idea of an ad server that would run on the network and involve a bunch of microtransactions of about 0.02 Nxt each.. you can't afford to pay 0.1 Nxt for each transaction.. I don't know if I'm going to run with that idea yet but point is, it should be doable to do transactions of less than 1 Nxt in my opinion. For that matter you should be able to give someone 0.002 Nxt for 'penny' candy, once we grow to Bitcoin's size and not be hit with a 0.1 Nxt fee. So if we're talking sustainable, let's talk percentages.
Let's say we go with an average fee of 0.1 Nxt, It'd be a transaction fee of approximately 0.02%, plus I still say messaging and alias registration should be separate.
So, quick numbers, let's say we want to be profitable at Bitcoins size and pretend we'll behave better. Bitcoin currently has a market cap of $7,900,000,000, coinmarketcap.com, and transaction volume of $50 million according to blockchain.info. Let's say we want to make $7 per forger since we will definitely need to be able to afford DDOS protect of about $7 per day (unless project Kharon fixes that!), and want 1,000 forgers at that size? Because by that point, pointed pooled forging will be around. So it would be 1000 pools on individual computers, not individuals.. of course with pooled forging you'll be paying a fee to the person loaning you the ability to forge on their machine.. so we'll need to readjust number. Let's say right now for the sake of argument and this may be low, we say that the pooled forging add an extra 7$ because you'll only receive half of your income due to various people who forging on your machine? And of course some of that $7 would be yours and just not part of the cost to run the machine that is split amongst people.
$14 * 1,000 = $14,000 per day
$14,000/$50 million = 0.03% Ok.. yeah that's tiny.
There are approximately 60,000 transactions per day for Bitcoin, so $50 million in transaction / 60,000 transactions = approx $800 per average transaction.
0.0003 * $800 = $0.24 per transaction. At Bitcoin's size 0.1 Nxt would equal $0.80 So we'd probably lower it half way there again but that would be reasonable.
So if we can afford to wait until we are Bitcoins size and want a fixed cost maybe 0.1 Nxt is about right, little low in my opinion.. but I would much rather a percentage cost.. because it allows microtransactions and if you want a cap since sending a lot of money all at once isn't any more work for the network.. we we grow to Bitcoin's size it'd be nice if I could send someone the equivalent of $0.10 without it costing $0.80, or even send $20 for less than $0.10 that credit cards currently charge. If you used percentage fee, then $20 * 0.0003 = 0.6 cents to give some one $20 worth of money.
There are approximately 60,000 transactions per day for Bitcoin, so $50 million in transaction / 60,000 transactions = approx $800 per average transaction. So where do we cap it? $800 would cost 0.16 cents to send at this rate, which seems very reasonable. Let's say we cap it at 0.6 Nxt, because that means you would hit that cap at 2000 Nxt. (Meaning at Bitcoin's size, it'd cost $4.8 to send $16,000)
What do you think about percentage fee vs fixed fee? And I'll grant you.. you guys were right I was wrong.. mostly, I feel strongly about it being a percentage over a fixed fee and the more I crunch numbers the better I feel about Nxt's future:)
Plus regarding the percentage thing.. people still hear that Peercoin has a fixed 0.1 PPC fee and even though Sunny has said that he doesn't think it'll be fixed to remain there, people trolling on PPC always point at it as if it's a fixed fee that makes PPC unsustainable.. percentage fee gives them confidence that it'll always be a low fee no matter how the price changes. And 0.03% sounds smaller than 0.1 Nxt.
