Buy Buy Buy or Sell Sell Sell?

[Ruttoshi]

Bitcoin is a different kind of asset compared to other traditional money and asset in the stock exchange where we can easily withdraw our profits whenever we feel like. Because of the volatility nature of Bitcoin its a difficult to know when the right time to hold or sell. From my study the price can go up a lot in value, but it can quickly drop down, So, the dilemma is; Do we wish to hold onto our Bitcoin with the hope that it will rise in value or do we to sell some of it when we see some gains, especially when the market looks very shaky in the eyes. Since holding simply means we can get more in the future, but can also risk losing some profits if the price falls.
The main challenge here is balancing between taking advantage of Bitcoin’s potential for growth while managing the risk of price drops and figuring out when is the right time to cash out or make moves without getting hurt by market swings. This is where the long term benefits comes over the short term quick gains. I can say for an investor who has invested up to 10 to 15 years he can take some little profits if he has things that are important to do. He can completely cash out if he is satisfied with the investment growth and profit and perhaps chooses to shift into other opportunities.

I find analogy with trade as you say. When you plan for the long term, the ups and downs in Bitcoin prices won't affect your investment. Your retention period will be around 4 years-12 years or if cycle is calculated it will be at least 1 cycle or more. But I personally prefer 3 cycles or longer. If you buy regularly with a 3-cycle or 12-year holding plan, you won't be affected by the ups and downs in Bitcoin prices or volatility in the Bitcoin market. Because after 3 cycles I think there may be a big difference between the average buy price and sell price of your bitcoins.

If you are planning to sell bitcoins for a small profit for a living or a temporary gain that is not set in time, then the volatility of the bitcoin price may affect you and you may lose a lot from now on. You may be interested in hoddling with the idea of ​​temporary gains, where you will be able to build a much larger portfolio and Bitcoin is more likely to give you better returns. If you are not patient enough to hold for long then you can plan alternatives, where you have less chance of losing.

I don't understand what you mean by planning alternatives to bitcoin long term investment and hodli plan that will limit your losses apart from investing in a long-term and hodli for long. Is there something that we don't know which you know and you are not telling us, because the last time I checked, bitcoin is best to be a long-term investment which you build and hodli for long to limit your losses and have a high chance of making profits in future, nothing apart from this.

Is selling and buying back your alternative, because that is gambling or waiting for the dip, I don't see how you can be successful in your bitcoin journey if you are not patient with your bitcoin investment for you to build and grow it overtime for the future while you hodli.

You said that you prefer investing ans hodli for three cycles how are you going to do that if you ars not patient because there's no alternative way out.

[JayJuanGee]

You should know more better that, you will only have this problem when you are chasing a short term profits in bitcoin. But if you are in for the long term, you shouldn't be having this problems, trying to strike a balance wether to take profit or not. Especially if you are still in the early stage of your accumulation, your focus should just be on the accumulation and allow whatever that's happening in the market to play out it is not your business. If you successfully hold your bitcoin for at least a circle, you won't be having any problem again when you want to take profit, because bitcoin price might have appreciated far more than what you got it for. So at that time any price you want to cash in will be profit for you. Because over the years bitcoin price is expected to be making more of an upward trends than downward trends.

The real question with what pattern does someone chase profit in the short term because if it is done on investment then there will be no problem because even if bitcoin gets a correction they can wait for the next increase after the recovery process occurs. Except when people are involved in future trading then the potential for loss or loss will be very large especially if they do not understand trading properly. If you invest, I think it won't be a problem because we can wait for the next price increase even though the purchase price is much higher.

That's why investing is much easier to do and people don't need to think much as long as they understand that bitcoin will continue to gain momentum to rise after the correction occurs. Investing also allows someone to avoid panic because they don't need to check the price all the time, so the focus can be more on how to accumulate and we can slowly collect bitcoins in a more effective way.

It just seems to become quite tempting for newbies to second guess some kind of a BTC accumulation process that might involve ongoing buying of BTC for one or more cycles prior to a point that they might be in a position to potentially be able to modify their BTC accumulation process away from ongoing BTC buying.. and some folks might still not be in a position to stop their ongoing BTC buying even after more than a whole cycle, and I would not even be suggesting that such measuring is easy for anyone, yet at least, it would not be as bad of a problem if the newbie at least had spent quite a bit of time accumulating BTC, so then his assessment of whether to start to modify his BTC accumulation process would at least presumptively be informed by his having had already accumulated a decent quantity of BTC.

How are you going to manage your coins if you get into a situation like these two guys after 6 years accumulating and feeling that you have reached your BTC accumulation goals?

I would answer this question with regard to my knowledge before and that of present.

Earlier before now, without much knowledge on the value prosects of bitcoin and the compounding effect on the profitability of investments on a longer-term goal, I would have been the guy in the second scenario who sold off a lot to enjoy his life momentarily and loose the future gains that came with holding for longer.

But armed with the level of information I have received since joining this forum and most especially locating this thread, I wouldn't even sell any bitcoin if I don't need funds on an emergency note but would continue to hold as long as I can to boost my profitability. I would be like the guy that sold a few bitcoins from his investment or more so a better version of him who might not sell any and would continue accumulating to further increase my portfolio for more profits in the future.

I am glad that you feel that you are learning better about yourself and what might be better courses of action, especially since it remains very difficult to figure out what to do because any time that BTC starts reaching ATH prices again, we reach a kind of dilemma about whether to sell some or all of our BTC, and sometimes guys even end up regretting that they had not sold any BTC and then we end up in a 2-3 year or longer correction period, in which they might even question if the BTC price has decently good chances of getting back to the higher prices that were experienced prior to the long correction period... So we likely need to know that at any time we could end up going through a decently long correction period, which becomes even more challenging when our BTC portfolio might already be in decently high profits, yet at the same time it may or may not be starting a long period of dipping.

I am not going to claim to know any kind of exact answer since there can be feelings of you are damned if you do and damned if you don't in regards to building up a cash reserve and then also attempting to assess what your cashflow might be in the coming 1 to 2 to 3 years in which you might not want to sell any of your bitcoin, yet you had been tempted to sell some... and surely sometimes continuing to buy might be helpful, yet that might not even feel like a practical choice given the amount that you had already invested into bitcoin.. so many of us can end up going through extended periods of feeling like we are in a bit of a dilemma, and we may or may not be in a position to keep our cashflow going well enough during such period so that we don't end up panicking into doing something (or even making a purchase instead of delaying gratification) that we might end up regretting later.

[edited out]

Hypothetical 1 approach of holding onto most of his coins definitely seems like a solid strategy in the future. Especially due to bitcoin potentials for growth, by holding onto most of his btc  he could benefit from the long-term growth potential of Bitcoin.

For sure, Hypothetical 1 may well also be through a lot of dilemmas in regards to if he did the right thing by mostly holding through the whole period and even seeing his peers living it up and having a nice house and nice cars and even going on trips and going out to eat, and Hypothetical 1 is spending a lot of time paper rich (with his bitcoin), but not enjoying his richness, and he might even start to feel more regrets if he sees that hypothetical 2 ended up selling decent amounts (if not close to all of his BTC) at much higher prices than the value of hypothetical 1's coins since hypothetical 1 coins could end up correcting rather than going up in value.  From my own perspective, the answer is never completely obvious, and it is less obvious while we are going through such dilemmas because we don't end up having any advantage of hindsight, and we are also not guaranteed that the BTC price will correct back above and at prices that we will be able to sell at higher prices later.. or even to recoupe BTC anywhere close to the same price that Hypothetical 2 was able to sell decent amounts (if not all) of his BTC.

Sure perhaps many of us are coming to realize that some kind of incrementalism is likely the better way to deal with managing our BTC holdings, while at the same time realizing also that we still might end up having to go through extended periods of suffering and we are not guaranteed that we will be better off financially and at a later date after having had gone through such suffering.

[Dump3er]

The truth of the matter is that it can be very tempting to sell most if not all of your bitcoin just like hypothetical 2 did, and he ended up with nearly $1 million in profits out of a $47k investment, so it is difficult to proclaim that he did not profit, even though he would have had been better off to hold onto more of his BTC, perhaps some variation .. yet whenever any of us is attempting to create a somewhat realistic hypothetical comparison, we have to show how there can be a considerably great dilemma - including that we do not have the advantage of hindsight when we are caught up in the moment and we might have a variety of dilemmas that include temptations to consume and/or invest and even perhaps speculating that we might end up better off by selling most if not all of our BTC...

yet the more that we learn about bitcoin, the more we likely figure out that there are quite a few advantages to try to employ longer term HODLing and accumulating strategies, even though surely also at some point we may well transition out of mostly accumulating and into mostly selling (or shaving off here and there), and we still might be able to figure out a fair and reasonable balance that allows us to start reasonably withdrawing bitcoin even if we know that with the passage of time we are going to end up with fewer and fewer and fewer bitcoin... but having fewer and fewer bitcoin still might end up being an o.k. result once we got to a status that we consider to be over accumulation so shaving off bitcoin from our stash along the way ends up being an approach that we consider to be acceptable to our overall situation.

Do you think that we could soon get to a level of acceptance where there are platforms that allow you to borrow against your BTC holdings at competitive rates? I think if we get there, more people would decide against liquidating their BTC and instead use their holdings to otherwise leverage their position. I know that you are not the biggest fan of debt if I recall correctly, but with sound financial management, I would rather borrow against my BTC instead of selling it. Yes as long as it is highly volatile, there is considerable risk involved. But selling it and using the funds to buy something else could actually put us in a much weaker position given that we are literally selling tremendous upside potential in a moment of need or opportunity.

I am currently not aware of platforms that offer these services at reasonable rates, but to be honest I am also not into this too much. I can imagine that in a couple of years with things like LTVF and maybe other layer solutions, borrowing against your holdings could become a viable thing.

I sometimes think that from the most rational point of view, too many people have too little holdings and are more or less forced to believe that flipping is the right thing to do. Being able to hold despite being up several x is a luxury that mostly the rich can experience. The poorer people feel the urge to sell much quicker even if it doesn't make the most sense from the perspective of someone who truly believes in further exponential growth, but I do at least get their point.

[JayJuanGee]

Bitcoin is a different kind of asset compared to other traditional money and asset in the stock exchange where we can easily withdraw our profits whenever we feel like. Because of the volatility nature of Bitcoin its a difficult to know when the right time to hold or sell. From my study the price can go up a lot in value, but it can quickly drop down, So, the dilemma is; Do we wish to hold onto our Bitcoin with the hope that it will rise in value or do we to sell some of it when we see some gains, especially when the market looks very shaky in the eyes. Since holding simply means we can get more in the future, but can also risk losing some profits if the price falls.
The main challenge here is balancing between taking advantage of Bitcoin’s potential for growth while managing the risk of price drops and figuring out when is the right time to cash out or make moves without getting hurt by market swings. This is where the long term benefits comes over the short term quick gains. I can say for an investor who has invested up to 10 to 15 years he can take some little profits if he has things that are important to do. He can completely cash out if he is satisfied with the investment growth and profit and perhaps chooses to shift into other opportunities.

I find analogy with trade as you say. When you plan for the long term, the ups and downs in Bitcoin prices won't affect your investment. Your retention period will be around 4 years-12 years or if cycle is calculated it will be at least 1 cycle or more. But I personally prefer 3 cycles or longer. If you buy regularly with a 3-cycle or 12-year holding plan, you won't be affected by the ups and downs in Bitcoin prices or volatility in the Bitcoin market. Because after 3 cycles I think there may be a big difference between the average buy price and sell price of your bitcoins.

If you are planning to sell bitcoins for a small profit for a living or a temporary gain that is not set in time, then the volatility of the bitcoin price may affect you and you may lose a lot from now on. You may be interested in hoddling with the idea of ​​temporary gains, where you will be able to build a much larger portfolio and Bitcoin is more likely to give you better returns. If you are not patient enough to hold for long then you can plan alternatives, where you have less chance of losing.

I don't understand what you mean by planning alternatives to bitcoin long term investment and hodli plan that will limit your losses apart from investing in a long-term and hodli for long. Is there something that we don't know which you know and you are not telling us, because the last time I checked, bitcoin is best to be a long-term investment which you build and hodli for long to limit your losses and have a high chance of making profits in future, nothing apart from this.

Is selling and buying back your alternative, because that is gambling or waiting for the dip, I don't see how you can be successful in your bitcoin journey if you are not patient with your bitcoin investment for you to build and grow it overtime for the future while you hodli.

You said that you prefer investing ans hodli for three cycles how are you going to do that if you ars not patient because there's no alternative way out.

I would imagine that if each of us is going through a long process of accumulating bitcoin, we might start out accumulating BTC for one whole cycle and almost exclusively building up ONLY our bitcoin and our cash, yet at some point, it may well start to make sense to make sure that we have some diversification beyond just the cash and the BTC investments.  These surely become discretionary scenarios in regards to considering how much value is building up in the BTC and/or cash holdings, and surely once a person might start to get  more than a year's worth of expenses in bitcoin, the dilemma might start to be felt... and surely if there is more than a year's worth of expenses in bitcoin, then how much does the guy have in cash?  presumptively a minimum of 3 months in his emergency fund, yet how much does he have in his other cash reserves and/or float?  Does he want to build those up too? and does he want some of those to be in something other than cash so that they are "working" for him?  I have some troubles in the thought of completely keeping all investments in bitcoin and only bitcoin, yet there are guys who are willing to invest in those kinds of ways, which surely can be stressful kinds of ways of going through extensively downward volatile periods in bitcoin , which I am not going to be assuming those to be going away anytime soon, such as in the next 10-20 years, which should be relevant to the investment period of many of us.

The truth of the matter is that it can be very tempting to sell most if not all of your bitcoin just like hypothetical 2 did, and he ended up with nearly $1 million in profits out of a $47k investment, so it is difficult to proclaim that he did not profit, even though he would have had been better off to hold onto more of his BTC, perhaps some variation .. yet whenever any of us is attempting to create a somewhat realistic hypothetical comparison, we have to show how there can be a considerably great dilemma - including that we do not have the advantage of hindsight when we are caught up in the moment and we might have a variety of dilemmas that include temptations to consume and/or invest and even perhaps speculating that we might end up better off by selling most if not all of our BTC...

yet the more that we learn about bitcoin, the more we likely figure out that there are quite a few advantages to try to employ longer term HODLing and accumulating strategies, even though surely also at some point we may well transition out of mostly accumulating and into mostly selling (or shaving off here and there), and we still might be able to figure out a fair and reasonable balance that allows us to start reasonably withdrawing bitcoin even if we know that with the passage of time we are going to end up with fewer and fewer and fewer bitcoin... but having fewer and fewer bitcoin still might end up being an o.k. result once we got to a status that we consider to be over accumulation so shaving off bitcoin from our stash along the way ends up being an approach that we consider to be acceptable to our overall situation.

Do you think that we could soon get to a level of acceptance where there are platforms that allow you to borrow against your BTC holdings at competitive rates?

Personally, it seems to me that more and more businesses are going to be wanting to offer attractive terms to bitcoiners, yet it is still taking time for the word to get out in regards to various ways that competitive products can be offered that recognize and appreciate that bitcoin remains amongst the best of collateral assets.

I think if we get there, more people would decide against liquidating their BTC and instead use their holdings to otherwise leverage their position.

Of course, both is going to exist, since there is always going to be some complications in entering contracts in which some control (if not completely losing custody) of bitcoin might end up needing to be part of collateral-based relationships.

I know that you are not the biggest fan of debt if I recall correctly, but with sound financial management, I would rather borrow against my BTC instead of selling it.

I am not really against debt, since we have a society that runs off of debt, and there surely can be ways for any of us to advantage ourselves if we leverage debt and we are able to engage in responsible leveraging of our debt.  Surely one of the historical problems in bitcoin has been the custody situation and the custodians either gambling with the bitcoin in their possession or otherwise acting irresponsibly with their holding of the bitcoin.

Yes as long as it is highly volatile, there is considerable risk involved.

I doubt that volatility is really the main risk, yet there could be issues in regards to how anyone custodying bitcoin on behalf of others is able to earn returns on such bitcoin that they are holding, and presumptively they could loan the bitcoin to someone else who is paying higher interest to borrow the bitcoin, so we ultimately can end up in problematic relations in which bitcoins are being lent out irresponsibly and/or the level of rehypothication ends up becomeing problematic, too.. It seems to me that volatility in itself can be dealt with through collateral levels that can be adjusted and known in advance.

But selling it and using the funds to buy something else could actually put us in a much weaker position given that we are literally selling tremendous upside potential in a moment of need or opportunity.

I agree that people do get tempted into wanting to start to sell their BTC prior to having had reached high enough levels of accumulation, and they also may be valuing their BTC at spot price rather than using some kind of a more conservative valuation metric, such as the 200-WMA.

I am currently not aware of platforms that offer these services at reasonable rates, but to be honest I am also not into this too much. I can imagine that in a couple of years with things like LTVF and maybe other layer solutions, borrowing against your holdings could become a viable thing.

I am not sure what is LTVF.  Loan to value financing?

I sometimes think that from the most rational point of view, too many people have too little holdings and are more or less forced to believe that flipping is the right thing to do.

People do seem to tend to get ahead of themselves, and seem to be tempted into situations in which they are selling in order to buy more BTC cheaper and behaviors like that... which truly can be dangerous and put guys in bad situations, even though with any gambling, sometimes it might end up working out well for these kinds of folks too.

To me, it seems that part of the key is just continuing to accumulate BTC and don't be selling expecting to be able to buy back cheaper... .. so when sales of BTC are made, they are not made with expectations to buy back cheaper...and yeah, not everyone is going to even coming close to agreeing with my own perspectives on how to deal with BTC portfolio management.

Being able to hold despite being up several x is a luxury that mostly the rich can experience.

I am not going to presume that people start out rich.  So my presumption would be that most people who go from being poor, to not poor and then to well off and then to rich are going to end up going through various periods in which they are continuing to live within their means as they are advancing up in to higher and higher standards of living.

So when they start to get close to fuck you status, they would likely go through a period in which they are merely at something close to entry-level fuck you status or approaching entry-level fuck you status, to later getting to several s (times) their entry-level fuck you status, so they have to go through various transition periods as they are advancing up the scale in which they have to manage their fuck you status in such a way that they are not continuously spending at the limit of their fuck you status .. or living beyond their means.. so perhaps they are always maintaining a cushion and continuing to make sure that they are living within their means...

So if they have always built life-long habits in which they maintain cushions within their spending levels, then their status of getting to entry-level fuck you status and then later exceeding fuck you status continues to grow and they end up transitioning from barely reaching entry-level fuck you status to having several times the value of their entry-level fuck you status because through the years, they have already build systems upon systems in which they are ongoingly and continuously living within their means.

It seems that at any time such person who is moving up the scale from one status to another is not able to control their wealth and figure out how to make sure that they are living within their means and if they get overly anxious and start to spend like a drunk sailor (beyond their means) too soon, then they will end up falling back down to a lower level and even losing progress on their way to entry-level fuck you status and getting well into fuck you status and even several times fuck you status.   

I think that part of my point is that even any guys who are coming close to entry-level fuck you status or reaching fuck you status have already likely built good habits of both maintaining and building their wealth and so in that regard, they still likely need to continue to exercise precautions and prudence in regards to ongoingly living within their means, and surely identifying ways to valuate and being invested in good assets like bitcoin would likely be advantageous to them.

The poorer people feel the urge to sell much quicker even if it doesn't make the most sense from the perspective of someone who truly believes in further exponential growth, but I do at least get their point.

Poor people are going to have fun being poor if they cannot figure out ways to live within their means, even when they are making it and even while they are moving up the financial scale to be ongoingly improving their standard of living.  I doubt that anyone can move from poor to not poor to well to do and then to rich if they are not ongoingly exercising good habits at each stage and/or step up that they are doing... So there likely is ongoing value to make sure that we have our money working for us in ways in which we are mostly spending from our passive income from that money and not from the principle, and if the passive income from the money is not enough, then we have to cut back on our expenses so that we are living within our means rather than depleting principle.

[I_Anime]

Poor people are going to have fun being poor if they cannot figure out ways to live within their means, even when they are making it and even while they are moving up the financial scale to be ongoingly improving their standard of living.  I doubt that anyone can move from poor to not poor to well to do and then to rich if they are not ongoingly exercising good habits at each stage and/or step up that they are doing... So there likely is ongoing value to make sure that we have our money working for us in ways in which we are mostly spending from our passive income from that money and not from the principle, and if the passive income from the money is not enough, then we have to cut back on our expenses so that we are living within our means rather than depleting principle

That's true, one thing again is that most time getting rich isn't the problem, is having a good habit that will help one to stay rich. That's why sometimes you can hear that a man was once wealthy , but due to some poor management habit he got himself reckt. So is all about having a principle, with a good principle you will be able to balance your finance and same time your bitcoin investment.

Due to such (having the wrong habit or principle) that's why most people always remain poor sometimes or even get poorer.

[ginsan]

Poor people are going to have fun being poor if they cannot figure out ways to live within their means, even when they are making it and even while they are moving up the financial scale to be ongoingly improving their standard of living.  I doubt that anyone can move from poor to not poor to well to do and then to rich if they are not ongoingly exercising good habits at each stage and/or step up that they are doing... So there likely is ongoing value to make sure that we have our money working for us in ways in which we are mostly spending from our passive income from that money and not from the principle, and if the passive income from the money is not enough, then we have to cut back on our expenses so that we are living within our means rather than depleting principle

That's true, one thing again is that most time getting rich isn't the problem, is having a good habit that will help one to stay rich. That's why sometimes you can hear that a man was once wealthy , but due to some poor management habit he got himself reckt. So is all about having a principle, with a good principle you will be able to balance your finance and same time your bitcoin investment.

Due to such (having the wrong habit or principle) that's why most people always remain poor sometimes or even get poorer.

Someone throws away the opportunity to become rich because of a decision. Yes, it's a matter of decision, however, I'm sure many people who first joined the bitcointalk forum are now millionaires who have a lot of Bitcoin either from mining or buying in early 2014, or earlier. But what, sometimes the wrong decisions they make so they fail to get rich or become millionaires, why because they sell early without buying back or without investing well on an ongoing basis.
Is that wrong, that's a true fact, my friend.

Therefore, make a decision correctly, if you want to be rich, invest regularly by buying every week and never sell it. Is that the right step, it's quite right because someone who continues to buy regularly will have a lot of btc because he continues to buy with determination, he perfects his weekly purchase investment without missing it.

For the final point. I think we know quite a lot of mistakes, yes, it can be likened to a weak-handed investor. For that we still have time to fix our investments properly and we open up opportunities not to repeat wrong decisions.

[Pi-network314159]

The truth of the matter is that it can be very tempting to sell most if not all of your bitcoin just like hypothetical 2 did, and he ended up with nearly $1 million in profits out of a $47k investment, so it is difficult to proclaim that he did not profit, even though he would have had been better off to hold onto more of his BTC, perhaps some variation .. yet whenever any of us is attempting to create a somewhat realistic hypothetical comparison,

You are actually right, we can't predict some kind of situation when it arises. We might proclaim to be different in terms of making decisions in regard to what hypothetical 2 did, but we might as well do as he did when we find ourselves in such situations or did worst than him but thanks to Bitcoin growth which has changed people narratives. Because people had some doubt some years ago about bitcoin and some sold way too quickly Because there was no proof as to how hug bitcoin might be. But from previous history of bitcoin starting from 2009 till date has shown the immense growth of bitcoin and if I where in positions to make decisions now, I will be In position of hypothetical 1.

we have to show how there can be a considerably great dilemma - including that we do not have the advantage of hindsight when we are caught up in the moment and we might have a variety of dilemmas that include temptations to consume and/or invest and even perhaps speculating that we might end up better off by selling most if not all of our BTC...

Delima is bound to happen to any investor but we must figure out ways to tackle them and do as if nothing happend. if they may have adopted the strategy of investing in bitcoin plus setting aside some amount for emergency fund there, I think there may be no need to sell all for a any delima situation.

[Litzki1990]

If you buy something for business purpose, you must sell it and try to make a profit by selling it. Let me give a small example in case, people store agricultural products to sell them at a good price of course, but storage does not mean that he keeps those goods in cold storage for whole life. 
Similarly, if we invest in bitcoins and sell the investments after seeing some temporary profit, then the main purpose of our investment is not fulfilled. 

Just as farmers store their agricultural produce in cold storage to sell it later at a good price, we should try to hold the investment for a long period of time to get a good return on investment. There may be many challenges to be faced in holding the investment but the investment must be held for a certain period by accepting all the challenges. 

By investing in several stages but at different times whether one can sell one's investment for a good amount of profit depends entirely on an investor.

[laijsica]

Poor people are going to have fun being poor if they cannot figure out ways to live within their means, even when they are making it and even while they are moving up the financial scale to be ongoingly improving their standard of living.  I doubt that anyone can move from poor to not poor to well to do and then to rich if they are not ongoingly exercising good habits at each stage and/or step up that they are doing... So there likely is ongoing value to make sure that we have our money working for us in ways in which we are mostly spending from our passive income from that money and not from the principle, and if the passive income from the money is not enough, then we have to cut back on our expenses so that we are living within our means rather than depleting principle

That's true, one thing again is that most time getting rich isn't the problem, is having a good habit that will help one to stay rich. That's why sometimes you can hear that a man was once wealthy , but due to some poor management habit he got himself reckt. So is all about having a principle, with a good principle you will be able to balance your finance and same time your bitcoin investment.

Due to such (having the wrong habit or principle) that's why most people always remain poor sometimes or even get poorer.

You can see this as a bad example and it happens to everyone if people are not aware of their risks because of bad policies despite having inherited wealth. If you can take an example from Bitcoin investing due to its strict policy of poor people owning a lot of assets you will easily realize how much the DCA method can change your portfolio even with low risk. By investing in Bitcoin growth over time and actively investing for the long term.

The need for good practice to get rich and you should keep yourself exposed by acting accordingly and you should not let your future be ruined by allowing yourself to live with idle money. By adopting active financial management and managing investments accordingly, you can maintain liquidity.

[JayJuanGee]

The truth of the matter is that it can be very tempting to sell most if not all of your bitcoin just like hypothetical 2 did, and he ended up with nearly $1 million in profits out of a $47k investment, so it is difficult to proclaim that he did not profit, even though he would have had been better off to hold onto more of his BTC, perhaps some variation .. yet whenever any of us is attempting to create a somewhat realistic hypothetical comparison,

You are actually right, we can't predict some kind of situation when it arises. We might proclaim to be different in terms of making decisions in regard to what hypothetical 2 did, but we might as well do as he did when we find ourselves in such situations or did worst than him but thanks to Bitcoin growth which has changed people narratives. Because people had some doubt some years ago about bitcoin and some sold way too quickly Because there was no proof as to how hug bitcoin might be. But from previous history of bitcoin starting from 2009 till date has shown the immense growth of bitcoin and if I where in positions to make decisions now, I will be In position of hypothetical 1.

People are still going to make the same mistakes as they made earlier by selling too much bitcoin too soon., and also concluding that bitcoin does not have very much upside potential, so they will feel that they need to shave off their dollars.  Sure, there will be a lot of folks hanging onto their bitcoin and figuring out how to continue to have bitcoin as one of their ever-present assets, yet not everyone is going to figure it out... and we cannot even know if future performance is going to be sufficient to justify continuing to hold bitcoin.. each of us has to figure out our allocation and also our way of managing our stash once we feel that we have gotten to a sufficient and/or more than sufficient size of BTC.

we have to show how there can be a considerably great dilemma - including that we do not have the advantage of hindsight when we are caught up in the moment and we might have a variety of dilemmas that include temptations to consume and/or invest and even perhaps speculating that we might end up better off by selling most if not all of our BTC...

Delima is bound to happen to any investor but we must figure out ways to tackle them and do as if nothing happend. if they may have adopted the strategy of investing in bitcoin plus setting aside some amount for emergency fund there, I think there may be no need to sell all for a any delima situation.

The target is always moving, and even our situation is changing.. so how are we going to be able to tell any other member how to manage his BTC allocation in light of his own particular individual circumstances? as those circumstances are evolving.    Even in the beginning a guy is likely spending many years accumulating BTC, yet he may also be developing job skills so he can earn income, and there could be questions about whether he buys BTC or if he might spend a certain amount of time and money to build certain life-time job skills, and the answer is not going to be completely clear, and surely the answers might be more clear after the guy has gotten a certain level of education and/or job skills and is applying his job skills to earn an income and to put a certain amount of his pay into bitcoin, so then how many years might he be able to put money into bitcoin, and then once his bitcoin gets to a certain size does he keep putting money in?  What if he is not satisfied with his job and he concludes that it might be worth it for him to change job skills and/or even take from his bitcoin to go down that job development path... and I am not going to say that the answer is going to be clear and there may be more than one correct path.

[Stablexcoin]

The target is always moving, and even our situation is changing.. so how are we going to be able to tell any other member how to manage his BTC allocation in light of his own particular individual circumstances? as those circumstances are evolving.    Even in the beginning a guy is likely spending many years accumulating BTC, yet he may also be developing job skills so he can earn income, and there could be questions about whether he buys BTC or if he might spend a certain amount of time and money to build certain life-time job skills, and the answer is not going to be completely clear, and surely the answers might be more clear after the guy has gotten a certain level of education and/or job skills and is applying his job skills to earn an income and to put a certain amount of his pay into bitcoin, so then how many years might he be able to put money into bitcoin, and then once his bitcoin gets to a certain size does he keep putting money in?  What if he is not satisfied with his job and he concludes that it might be worth it for him to change job skills and/or even take from his bitcoin to go down that job development path... and I am not going to say that the answer is going to be clear and there may be more than one correct path.

The best thing we can do is to take the time to study ways how to manage our finances since we have decided we want to accumulate Bitcoin. A person might have looked at the current price now, done his research, and concluded this is probably a time when Bitcoin will be much more affordable for him. So if he makes plans to increase his income, perhaps going to study or getting a job. He can still be comfortable investing in what he can afford at that particular time rather than pausing his investment till he achieves the objective. And we all know that there is no certainty if his ambitions will be successful or not. That does not mean the initial plan was all in vain. It could take a year or more to get back on track, but we should understand that before the investor made up his mind to start investing, I believed there was a source of income he had. That source can still be used to buy Bitcoin even if it's a fraction through his DCA method even if he wants to accumulate more but with time he might get a good job that will help him achieve the desired Bitcoin goals.

[Jewan420]

If you buy something for business purpose, you must sell it and try to make a profit by selling it. Let me give a small example in case, people store agricultural products to sell them at a good price of course, but storage does not mean that he keeps those goods in cold storage for whole life. 
Similarly, if we invest in bitcoins and sell the investments after seeing some temporary profit, then the main purpose of our investment is not fulfilled. 
Just as farmers store their agricultural produce in cold storage to sell it later at a good price, we should try to hold the investment for a long period of time to get a good return on investment. There may be many challenges to be faced in holding the investment but the investment must be held for a certain period by accepting all the challenges. 

We cannot compare Bitcoin with agricultural products. As you may know, it is a legal offense to store produce for long periods of time and you cannot store produce as long as you want. Because long-term storage of agricultural produce has the possibility of spoilage which will later become unusable. If you keep agricultural products for as long as you want, you may incur losses instead of profits.

Incidentally, holding Bitcoin for a long time will be profitable for you. By hoarding Bitcoins like agricultural commodities you are not accountable to anyone or the chances of losing are very low. Even if agricultural products are kept for a long time, there will be no change in liquidity, as a result of high liquidity in agricultural products, even after storing for a long time, losses have to be calculated from there. But holding Bitcoin for a long time does not harm a holder of Bitcoin liquidity, or holding for a long time in the DCA method reduces the effect of liquidity on your portfolio.

[Marvelockg]

If you buy something for business purpose, you must sell it and try to make a profit by selling it. Let me give a small example in case, people store agricultural products to sell them at a good price of course, but storage does not mean that he keeps those goods in cold storage for whole life. 
Similarly, if we invest in bitcoins and sell the investments after seeing some temporary profit, then the main purpose of our investment is not fulfilled. 
Just as farmers store their agricultural produce in cold storage to sell it later at a good price, we should try to hold the investment for a long period of time to get a good return on investment. There may be many challenges to be faced in holding the investment but the investment must be held for a certain period by accepting all the challenges. 

We cannot compare Bitcoin with agricultural products. As you may know, it is a legal offense to store produce for long periods of time and you cannot store produce as long as you want. Because long-term storage of agricultural produce has the possibility of spoilage which will later become unusable. If you keep agricultural products for as long as you want, you may incur losses instead of profits.

it's not worth an effort that you're making a comparison between holding Bitcoin and storing an agricultural product for a long term. First off, anything relating to agricultural product is a short term project that's subject to perishing if not properly stored. You've got to consider regular maintenance cost for all the period you're doing the storage or else you loose all your goods. while for Bitcoin, there's nothing to be worried about cost of holding your Bitcoin and if you're not easily moved by short term profit and you stay disciplined enough to HODL your bitcoin for the long term, what you're going to consider will be how best to keep buying and stacking up more Bitcoin for the long term because it's never a consideration that there will be a sort of spoilage regardless of the quantity of Bitcoin you've bought unlike what's obtainable with perishable agricultural product.

But holding Bitcoin for a long time does not harm a holder of Bitcoin liquidity, or holding for a long time in the DCA method reduces the effect of liquidity on your portfolio.

this is an advantage that comes with holding Bitcoin for the long term as against holding any other asset. Apart from the fact that you can do using the DCA methord which allows you to keep buying your Bitcoin but by bit, even if for any reason you decide to pause, slow down on your accumilation or even close your eyes to your investment maybe because you've reached a comfortable spot, you can do so for as long as you want without getting afraid of what will become of your asset as long as you've set out the right security measures in place that will protect your Bitcoin.

[Cryptoprincess101]

Having a long-term target while investing in bitcoin is the best for any good investor but it doesn't really reduce the risks of losing because since bitcoin is a high volatile coin, volatility can push the price downwards at a time when an investor feels that the number of years he had in target has come, so it may be at a time when the price is experiencing a DIP due to an event that may occur at that particular period of time which means he has to be more patient in order to allow the price bounce back which is some cases, the investor may feel he is spending a lot of time waiting for the price to gain strength again which can make him to panic in fear that he may incur more losses if he waits further. This is one of the reasons while i feel people should not set the number of years they want to hold their bitcoin before they consider to sell part of it because it can appear at a time when the market is bleeding.  I think the major reason why we hold for long is to build our portfolio and not specifically on profits making.

When we start to get reasonably close to our goal, we might start to get stressed which may well be a sign of over accumulation, and surely it may be better to start to shave off some profits here and there rather than NOT.

But how would someone know they have over accumulated and is there a limit to how much one can be able to accumulate? or does it depend on the target of the person within a particular period of time that will determine if they have achieved their level of accumulation or gone above their target.

There can be a bit of a contradiction of ideas, since sometimes guys have to be careful when they have so much of their networth in bitcoin and if they have been in bitcoin for a couple of cycles, then if they have not diversified into other assets, they may end up reach some status of having had invested more than they can afford to lose, while at the same time not having had yet reached their BTC accumulation goal or over accumulation... so it can be difficult to describe being in this kind of a situation in generalized ways since each of us likely has to figure out that we are not causing too much emotion for ourselves in regards to out bitcoin investment, even if we also might be trying to reach a status of reaching our accumulation target and/or a target of being in a status of overaccumulation that frees us to be able to sell extra BTC without having to worry that we no longer have enough.

Actually, bitcoin is supposed to be invested with a disposable income that we can afford to lose but there are folks who has more confidence in bitcoin now and feels that since there is no superior asset to diversify their investment to, they may want to invest aggressively on bitcoin without minding if they have over accumulated or not, but just want to own majority of their NetWorth in bitcoin and HODL for long and are ready to bear the brunt if the market goes sideways, so in this kind of situation, can we say that such investor lacks constraint in their investment?

[lizarder]

It just seems to become quite tempting for newbies to second guess some kind of a BTC accumulation process that might involve ongoing buying of BTC for one or more cycles prior to a point that they might be in a position to potentially be able to modify their BTC accumulation process away from ongoing BTC buying.. and some folks might still not be in a position to stop their ongoing BTC buying even after more than a whole cycle, and I would not even be suggesting that such measuring is easy for anyone, yet at least, it would not be as bad of a problem if the newbie at least had spent quite a bit of time accumulating BTC, so then his assessment of whether to start to modify his BTC accumulation process would at least presumptively be informed by his having had already accumulated a decent quantity of BTC.

When beginners do have the ability to do continuous buying activities then it will be much better and to be more consistent then they must also understand that the sustainable way can be done gradually according to their financial capabilities. If they do have a fixed budget from work and try to set aside a large percentage of money to buy bitcoin for each week or month then I am sure they will grow much faster because the process will help in running investments with smaller financial capabilities.

It should be maintained and perhaps not necessarily run faster than someone who has a larger budget for accumulating bitcoin. When the process is carried out properly, the results will be much more optimal because now they definitely have an idea of how Bitcoin is growing and continuing to show a more productive direction.

[asarfiar]

Bitcoin is a different kind of asset compared to other traditional money and asset in the stock exchange where we can easily withdraw our profits whenever we feel like. Because of the volatility nature of Bitcoin its a difficult to know when the right time to hold or sell. From my study the price can go up a lot in value, but it can quickly drop down, So, the dilemma is; Do we wish to hold onto our Bitcoin with the hope that it will rise in value or do we to sell some of it when we see some gains, especially when the market looks very shaky in the eyes. Since holding simply means we can get more in the future, but can also risk losing some profits if the price falls.
The main challenge here is balancing between taking advantage of Bitcoin’s potential for growth while managing the risk of price drops and figuring out when is the right time to cash out or make moves without getting hurt by market swings. This is where the long term benefits comes over the short term quick gains. I can say for an investor who has invested up to 10 to 15 years he can take some little profits if he has things that are important to do. He can completely cash out if he is satisfied with the investment growth and profit and perhaps chooses to shift into other opportunities.

I find analogy with trade as you say. When you plan for the long term, the ups and downs in Bitcoin prices won't affect your investment. Your retention period will be around 4 years-12 years or if cycle is calculated it will be at least 1 cycle or more. But I personally prefer 3 cycles or longer. If you buy regularly with a 3-cycle or 12-year holding plan, you won't be affected by the ups and downs in Bitcoin prices or volatility in the Bitcoin market. Because after 3 cycles I think there may be a big difference between the average buy price and sell price of your bitcoins.

If you are planning to sell bitcoins for a small profit for a living or a temporary gain that is not set in time, then the volatility of the bitcoin price may affect you and you may lose a lot from now on. You may be interested in hoddling with the idea of ​​temporary gains, where you will be able to build a much larger portfolio and Bitcoin is more likely to give you better returns. If you are not patient enough to hold for long then you can plan alternatives, where you have less chance of losing.

The way we see Bitcoin right now or the volatility we are experiencing with the ups and downs of the market is actually a medium at work here is the trend of short term investing. By short term investment we mean days, weeks, months. Bitcoin is volatile so you may miss out on good returns if you proceed with short-term investment guarantees. For example I think suppose current price of Bitcoin is $80k and its duration is 4 years then ($80k*4) ie $320k again one cycle -12 years then ($80k*12) ie $960k or more. I think bitcoin investors should wait until such a cycle time.

And if it is not possible to support the family then you can hold for up to 4 years, and if that is not possible then you have to give up bitcoins at low price from which you can lose a lot.
Holding Bitcoin should be planned for the long term so that you can insulate yourself from the charisma of market price ups and downs and at the end of a cycle you can enjoy a huge return that can be a boon to fulfilling your sky-high dreams.

[DubemIfedigbo001]

so then how many years might he be able to put money into bitcoin, and then once his bitcoin gets to a certain size does he keep putting money in?  What if he is not satisfied with his job and he concludes that it might be worth it for him to change job skills and/or even take from his bitcoin to go down that job development path... and I am not going to say that the answer is going to be clear and there may be more than one correct path.

I believe with the right mentality he is going to raise money and plan for his upgrades rather than falling back to his bitcoin for financial solution. As an investor already grounded with the knowledge of not harming your investments and going for long-term holdings, I presumed he should already have imbibed the mindset that his bitcoin portfolio is a no-go area for his proposed upgrades but build up his savings alongside his bitcoin portfolio to handle any of those career transitions. It is okay to cut down on your accumulation amounts, but not stopping totally at the transition process since there's more to do with cashflow at the moment and I'm not a fan of completely stopping your job for an upgrade, it can be done side by side unless of course if the career company experienced a shutdown and he was jobless void of preparation, else it is his duty to find a new job, that can take care of his expenses and little accumulation amounts at least and give him more time to upgrade himself before quitting the current one. He can continue with normal configuration on increasing his portfolio when he has got his career fixed and earning better and more comfortable with the new career, possibly even increase his accumulation amount to catch up with lost time. The investor needs to continually fuel his mindset of the need to continue accumulation bitcoin and not liquidate his portfolio and that entails continuous accumulation even with very little amounts for the unstable periods, else his brain might switch on the reverse and he starts thinking of preying on his portfolio for survival.

I believed there was a source of income he had. That source can still be used to buy Bitcoin even if it's a fraction through his DCA method even if he wants to accumulate more but with time he might get a good job that will help him achieve the desired Bitcoin goals.

I believe if you read carefully, the same source that he used for accumulation is the one he wants to change or improve by Upgrading himself on the career path, and possibly he might wish to quit the former job to be able to build himself for yet a bigger and better opportunity. Believe me, the building process comes with lots of challenges and financial requirements that might make the investor run short of even discretionary funds as the cost of upgrading himself might be high, that's why I suggest that he should save up some funds in that regard and we know that his savings might not even be enough and that is why he does not need to quit working entirely to upgrade himself and even if upgrading himself might mean him stopping the tasky job he is doing, he might as well get a low demanding job to at least cover for his expenses during the upgrade period and still invest with reduced amounts so he does not turn to harming his portfolio for survival. I am not of the opinion that he uses his emergency funds to service such part, emergency funds should be strictly kept for emergencies because they always come.

[Fara Chan]

When beginners do have the ability to do continuous buying activities then it will be much better and to be more consistent then they must also understand that the sustainable way can be done gradually according to their financial capabilities. If they do have a fixed budget from work and try to set aside a large percentage of money to buy bitcoin for each week or month then I am sure they will grow much faster because the process will help in running investments with smaller financial capabilities.

If there are beginners who are able to do such practices every week or every month with the main goal of buying Bitcoin and considering it as a good form of investment for themselves, I think people like that are not ordinary beginners because they must have learned first through several methods before they dare to do it every month. I say that because the level of trust of beginners in Bitcoin will also have an influence on the courage of beginners in buying Bitcoin more consistently without looking at the price because they only see the amount of finances they have themselves.

It should be maintained and perhaps not necessarily run faster than someone who has a larger budget for accumulating bitcoin. When the process is carried out properly, the results will be much more optimal because now they definitely have an idea of how Bitcoin is growing and continuing to show a more productive direction.

Such things are indeed good to be maintained by every beginner who has known Bitcoin for some time, but you may have also found beginners who are unable to maintain such things under any conditions because the level of trust of beginners in Bitcoin still varies greatly and tends to be different so that only a few beginners are able to do this routinely without thinking about complaints and any risks to the steps they take.

[Sim_card]

The truth of the matter is that it can be very tempting to sell most if not all of your bitcoin just like hypothetical 2 did, and he ended up with nearly $1 million in profits out of a $47k investment, so it is difficult to proclaim that he did not profit, even though he would have had been better off to hold onto more of his BTC, perhaps some variation .. yet whenever any of us is attempting to create a somewhat realistic hypothetical comparison,

You are actually right, we can't predict some kind of situation when it arises. We might proclaim to be different in terms of making decisions in regard to what hypothetical 2 did, but we might as well do as he did when we find ourselves in such situations or did worst than him but thanks to Bitcoin growth which has changed people narratives. Because people had some doubt some years ago about bitcoin and some sold way too quickly Because there was no proof as to how hug bitcoin might be. But from previous history of bitcoin starting from 2009 till date has shown the immense growth of bitcoin and if I where in positions to make decisions now, I will be In position of hypothetical 1.

People are still going to make the same mistakes as they made earlier by selling too much bitcoin too soon., and also concluding that bitcoin does not have very much upside potential, so they will feel that they need to shave off their dollars.  Sure, there will be a lot of folks hanging onto their bitcoin and figuring out how to continue to have bitcoin as one of their ever-present assets, yet not everyone is going to figure it out... and we cannot even know if future performance is going to be sufficient to justify continuing to hold bitcoin.. each of us has to figure out our allocation and also our way of managing our stash once we feel that we have gotten to a sufficient and/or more than sufficient size of BTC.

I think that bitcoin portfolio management should be another aspect that an investor needs to understand when he has reached his bitcoin investment maintenance stage, so that he does not mismanage his bitcoin investment after feeling that he has more than enough bitcoin in his possession. Since some people might feel that because they have too much bitcoin, they can start selling whenever they like and will end up selling too much bitcoin too soon forgetting the long period of time that they used to build their bitcoin stash to that size and the process they passed through. It is easy to destroy but very hard to build i.e, it is easy to squander 1btc than save gradually to get 1btc.

Your bitcoin investment should be part of your life and you don't need to rush in selling too much too soon when you know that you are not giving up the ghost, but rather watch your bitcoin investment grow in profit bigger and bigger as you get older and older while you only take little profit that will not have any effect on your portfolio once in a while. However, this is what all investors needs to figure out by themselves because it is our bitcoin and we can do what we like to do with it as long as you don't regret your actions later.

[Spaceman1000$]

Poor people are going to have fun being poor if they cannot figure out ways to live within their means, even when they are making it and even while they are moving up the financial scale to be ongoingly improving their standard of living.  I doubt that anyone can move from poor to not poor to well to do and then to rich if they are not ongoingly exercising good habits at each stage and/or step up that they are doing... So there likely is ongoing value to make sure that we have our money working for us in ways in which we are mostly spending from our passive income from that money and not from the principle, and if the passive income from the money is not enough, then we have to cut back on our expenses so that we are living within our means rather than depleting principle

That's true, one thing again is that most time getting rich isn't the problem, is having a good habit that will help one to stay rich. That's why sometimes you can hear that a man was once wealthy , but due to some poor management habit he got himself reckt. So is all about having a principle, with a good principle you will be able to balance your finance and same time your bitcoin investment.

Due to such (having the wrong habit or principle) that's why most people always remain poor sometimes or even get poorer.

To some extent I disagree with you on the fact that "most time getting rich isn't the problem, is having a good habit that will help one to stay rich"as you've said. For me Getting rich is one of the major issues on earth, as there are only handful of people that are rich, I understand that there are harmful of people too that find it difficult to sustain wealth but they are not in the majority as they are few, however the most difficult part is to create wealth, as majority of earth dwellers find it difficult to break through that Threshold, as some will say let me get the wealth first then i can bother later about sustainability.

As for the poor persons, one of the major issues that affects them is the limitations of opportunities including financial constraints, which has a way of affecting how they think or approach issues, it takes a lot of courage and determination for some of them to pull out of their situation as they always feel overwhelmed about life issues.