Buy Buy Buy or Sell Sell Sell?

[JayJuanGee]

.......Yes, Bitcoin is a long-term asset, and its success is very high. And the examples of high success of Bitcoin are in front of us, such as MicroStrategy, BlackRock, El Salvador, Tesla, Metaplanet, there are also some other big Bitcoin holders who have been holding Bitcoin for a long time, and today they are very successful, and they are going to achieve more success in the future, because Bitcoin is going to be more valuable in the future.
History is a witness that long-term holders are the ones who ultimately benefit the most. Because if we think about the price of Bitcoin exactly 2 years ago, then the price of Bitcoin was below $30K, and today the price of Bitcoin is at an all-time high and it made the best ATH of all time 10 hours ago which was $94K.


That is, those who have been patiently buying long-term DCA for 2 years have already made a good profit.
And if Bitcoin is going to grow even more in the future, then those investors are going to make much more profit in the future.
Thus, holding Bitcoin by following the DCA method can definitely be the key to success in the long term.

I agree with your overall points, yet you seem to have a bit of a loose rendition of the facts to support your argument, even though your overall direction is still correct, and the actual facts are probably even more bullish than you are characterizing them to be, since any of us can look at the BTC charts, and we can see that exactly 2 years ago, the BTC price was bouncing around $16k, which truly was the low for that portion of the then BTC price dip.

So we might have had a bit of a challenging two years for any newbies buying and the BTC price has pretty much been going up the whole time, yet surely it was still a good time to be buying, even though there are many examples in which lump sum (if it would have had been possible) would have had paid off better than DCA, especially in the past 2 years, yet at the same time, many of us recognize and appreciate that lump sum is frequently not easy and/or practical to carry out, whether any of us might be poor or rich, DCA seems to be amongst the better of the approaches because it is more practical to attempt to manage money with a DCA approach, even though early lump summing would have had paid off better in a period of time that an asset, like bitcoin, had gone up right close to 6x during that period of time, if we are starting out exactly 2 years ago from the time of these posts.

You know the thing is that many people think that it is easy to make a profit basically the traders I believe that even though you know what you're doing in Trading that will not make you to think that every time you be involved in making profit if it is so many people would have become a billionaire in Trading but I know quite well that all these things is all about luck and opportunity so if you don't have such opportunity something that you'll be able to make profit.

When trading become a thing of luck, that is where I feel it is not committing ones life savings into because it is possible to be lost completely. The reason many people indulge in trading rather than investing is that they have the illusion that trading will make them rich overnight so they come in with the millionaire mindset to reap the market only to find out that it was not what they thought, after they might have paid the ultimate price. All the bad attributes that make people to fail are found in the quest for to become rich overnight through trading and that is where people miss it.

Instead of doing trial by error with my money, I prefer investing such money in Bitcoin which I no is not going anywhere soon. I rather watch my money grow gradually over the years than see it disappear with few days of bad trading experience.

This mind set of making it overnight is the same mind set of a gambler, some people has come out with facts that trading is not gambling because is not a game of luck, they say is a game of intelligence, they say if you study the market very well you will know what will happen next and that's who you predict and win, however some set of people has also come out to say no matter how good you are in studying the market you must lose one day and I think all traders believe there will be a lose one day when trading but let your winning be more than your losing.
Now some gamblers also believes if you study a game very well it gives you a chance of winning.
I have played gamble before and that was on soccer I predicted some teams to win and that's because I have been watching soccer for years and I know the strength of teams I predicted to win sometimes my predictions works and some time it those not.
Trading and gambling may not be the same but it has similarities.
They are both risky and anything can happen if you are losing more than you are winning please stop, some people may $100 today the next day he wins $150 and the following day he wins $100 again and a week later he lost $550 in a single day you are losing more than you are winning, some people don't calculate the amount they calculate the number of times they have won and lost and think they are doing better, what everyone should be checking is the amount lost and won.

There is deception in measuring trade wins in dollars too, since it fails to appreciate that if you are not sufficiently in the BTC market when the BTC price shoots up, then you may well never get back the opportunity costs that you just squandered by fucking around with selling too much BTC too soon with an anticipation that you would be able to buy back cheaper later.. blah blah blah.. which just has tendencies to turn such losers into either bitter cunts or re-enforcing their gambling mindset or causing them transition into a "waiting" investment strategy, when they don't have close to enough bitcoin in the first place, and they shouldn't have sold what little they had..and they should have had just kept buying even if the buying raises their costs.. after a few years.. perhaps 4-6 years or longer, with an ongoing buying of BTC practice, they likely are going to be able to see that they are in a better position based on their ongoing persistence and consistence in buying BTC rather than fucking around and not continuing to buy BTC.

However, if you are in your bitcoin accumulation process and have not reached your bitcoin target, it's impossible for you to say that you want to live on your bitcoin investment, because you need a job to continue accumulating more bitcoin and anyone without a job will not be able to invest in bitcoin and grow his portfolio, which will make you start selling too much of your bitcoin, too quick and you will regret your actions in the long run.

Even if you have reached your Bitcoin accumulation target never say fuck you to your main source of income. Whatever the level of knowledge we think we have acquire its a huge risk to quit our job. 90% of success in Bitcoin investment is long term, consistency and patience. Instead of quitting why not we continue a stable investment to live off or save for a business that you can rely on. The only time i can agree to someone quitting his job is if it is not a good paying job and when an individual has made enough to retire.

It seems to me that you are misunderstanding what it might mean to reach fuck you status, and surely you realize that you can quit your job if you have made enough to retire, so why is that different from quitting ones job when they have enough BTC?

For sure, the more BTC you have the more options you have in regards to income off of it, and there could be errors in calculating the value of your BTC, so surely there are a lot of examples of people who pull their fuck you levers way too early because they miscalculate how much BTC they actually need in order to live off of them and how to valuate them and to valuate their standard of living expenses (or increases in their standard of living due to debasement of the dollar/fiat or from chosen increases of lifestyle expenses).

Well even as a holder of Bitcoin, I haven't even thought of this, or contemplating of surviving on my Bitcoin holdings even when I have gotten the stash of Bitcoin I wanted, though at that point I might decide to be taking profit from it bit by bit after retirement, but not like depending on it fully for survival.

When you are accumulating and building your bitcoin stash, you might not be in a close enough place to be able to measure many of the variables that are going to be relevant towards whether your BTC stash is of a sufficient size to completely support you as compared with being able to merely supplement various income that you already have including whether you might still have to continue working at points later in your life than you would have had preferred to keep working.

It seems to me that the longer that you accumulate BTC and that you study various aspects of your bitcoin holdings in light of your various 9 individual factors, then the more informed you are going to be in regards to the extent to which you might be in a position or approaching a position in which you might be able to completely live off of your bitcoin stash as compared with merely supplementing yourself with your bitcoin stash.

Because to me that's the easiest way to drain the asset you should be leaving for your offsprings.

I question how solid of a goal any of us should have to be leaving most or all of our bitcoin to our offspring, and surely there can be ways that we also can make sure that we personally benefit from our own efforts in building up our bitcoin stash beside counting on supposed goodness of our offspring to care for our bitcoin in similar kinds of ways that we had cared for our building of our stash.

There can also be ways to accomplish both self-benefits and benefits to offspring if we are so inclined to provide some or a lot of wealth to offspring that may or may not deserve it.

So having another source of income or a business running for you is very much important, so that you wouldn't get to that point of draining your holdings after retirement.

I don't have any problem with the idea of diversifying, even though it sounds to me that you don't really sufficiently understand bitcoin if you believe that the goal of building up wealth in bitcoin is to have to put such wealth in some other business, even though sure there can be ways to draw from bitcoin and other sources of income, yet since bitcoin is such a superior asset, it may well be that bitcoin is a way better place to be relying upon income than to be fucking around with potentially inferior places to put your value.. yet in the end, it is up to you regarding the various ways that you might consider diversifying your risk and/or your income or the extent that you need to diversify beyond bitcoin in order to achieve sustainable income from your wealth..

and again, the more bitcoin you accumulate and stash away and the more you study bitcoin, you may well figure out ways that you are able to count on bitcoin for your income way more than you seem to be currently considering bitcoin.

Though I might be wrong, but having a good source of income as a man is something we shouldn't joke with regardless of your financial status or the stash of Bitcoin in our possession.
So in essence of what am trying to say is that regardless of anything, constant cash flow is very much important even when you have gotten to the top of your Bitcoin accumulation process.

You seem to be repeating, and I think that I already addressed this re-emphasis of yours.

However, if you are in your bitcoin accumulation process and have not reached your bitcoin target, it's impossible for you to say that you want to live on your bitcoin investment, because you need a job to continue accumulating more bitcoin and anyone without a job will not be able to invest in bitcoin and grow his portfolio, which will make you start selling too much of your bitcoin, too quick and you will regret your actions in the long run.

Even if you have reached your Bitcoin accumulation target never say fuck you to your main source of income. Whatever the level of knowledge we think we have acquire its a huge risk to quit our job. 90% of success in Bitcoin investment is long term, consistency and patience. Instead of quitting why not we continue a stable investment to live off or save for a business that you can rely on. The only time i can agree to someone quitting his job is if it is not a good paying job and when an individual has made enough to retire.

It seems to me that you are misunderstanding what it might mean to reach fuck you status, and surely you realize that you can quit your job if you have made enough to retire, so why is that different from quitting ones job when they have enough BTC?

For sure, the more BTC you have the more options you have in regards to income off of it, and there could be errors in calculating the value of your BTC, so surely there are a lot of examples of people who pull their fuck you levers way too early because they miscalculate how much BTC they actually need in order to live off of them and how to valuate them and to valuate their standard of living expenses (or increases in their standard of living due to debasement of the dollar/fiat or from chosen increases of lifestyle expenses).

I am not a job person, so if i reach my fuck you status in my Bitcoin accumulation then it would be very much easy to quit my job and retire, basically my retirement doesn't mean i am off with using other sources of income not just relying on living from my holdings. The shot there is to take profits, reinvest into basic marketing or business without any stress.

I am not clear exactly what you are saying, except it seems to me that you are believing a similar error that I already attempted to address with Barikui1 in that you seem to think that you need to sell your bitcoin and to establish income in some other kind of asset or property or business in order to be able to sustainably withdraw income to support your current or future standard of living. Those seem to be faulty assumptions, even though surely there could be ways that you might optionally choose to diversify away from bitcoin, yet such diversification may or may not be required in order to get to a sufficiently high enough level of bitcoin wealth in order to be able to sustainably live off of your bitcoin stash.

You can also look into some of my sustainable investment and/or withdrawal ideas.

In terms of misinterpreting/miscalculating the level of profits attained is a subconscious feeling when the investor tries to evaluate according to what is present and with less or no calculations on how the future will look like, from selling off everything and just basically living off the whole sell figure. Huge economic slow down might happen, inflations and crisis which will alter expenses on living, drastically there will be more to take from what was kept aside from what was calculated, more to that we also believe emergencies are prone to happen at any point in life. I rather not claim to retire, then fall back to working once more to raise my living expenses, if i am not old of age to retire fully then i might still continue contributing to my sources of income just something to work independently.

There are ways to calculate with cushions so that once you go into retirement and/or fuck you status, you are not going to have to return, but yeah, if you screw up your calculations and you pull your fuck you lever too soon, then that is on you to suffer through such readjustments based on your own screw ups.  I doubt that these are impossible tasks to calculate, even though I know a lot of people do not sufficiently calculate their cushions or to make sure that they have investment assets that are going to support them.. and I think that bitcoin will likely help a lot with these kinds of calculations, especially for folks who valuate their BTC holdings in realistic ways such as using the 200-WMA rather than getting distracted into fantasies based on current spot price or fantasies about future spot prices that may or may not end up playing out.

Well even as a holder of Bitcoin, I haven't even thought of this, or contemplating of surviving on my Bitcoin holdings even when I have gotten the stash of Bitcoin I wanted, though at that point I might decide to be taking profit from it bit by bit after retirement, but not like depending on it fully for survival.
Because to me that's the easiest way to drain the asset you should be leaving for your offsprings.
So having another source of income or a business running for you is very much important, so that you wouldn't get to that point of draining your holdings after retirement.

Though I might be wrong, but having a good source of income as a man is something we shouldn't joke with regardless of your financial status or the stash of Bitcoin in our possession.
So in essence of what am trying to say is that regardless of anything, constant cash flow is very much important even when you have gotten to the top of your Bitcoin accumulation process.

Bitcoin is an asset, but not a guaranteed income source. Using it for survival will only deplete the holdings and affect long-term benefits, even if we feel we have enough to live off of.

You seem to be wrong in your statement, since there are likely ways to accumulate and/or overaccumulate bitcoin to allow it to serve as a principle asset in which a bitcoin holder can establish sustainable withdrawal systems from it and to live off of it.

I don't know what others think of the assets but to me, I see Bitcoin as a generation wealth building too, an investment that I can preserve and grow for years to come rather than an investment I want to live off with while I am strong and can still get to work.

You can do both and work can become optional.    Why wouldn't you want that for yourself?  Having more options seems like a good thing to me.

I know everybody has different opinions and views on this subject matter. But relying on a single asset, no matter how promising it is totally risky.

You don't have to rely on a single asset.  You gotta figure out your own situation, including how you are going to allocate to bitcoin while accumulating it and the extent to which you need to or want to diversify and the extent to which you have accumulated enough BTC or more than enough in order to live off of it or use it as a supplement to working income or income from other assets or whatever combination that you choose within your option set, and surely having a lot of bitcoin seems to give a lot of options that you might not be able to get from other assets and/or currencies.

Why not have another source of income, if you feel you have accumulated enough to quit your job? Instead of feeding from your investment you can sell part of it, get a business, or diversify your investment and live off those ones. It will still provide more money to invest in your Bitcoin back.

So many guys repeating this same dumb idea and presuming that there is a need to sell bitcoin to acquire some other means of income.. and sure that might be what you choose to do, but you it is not necessary to do what you are proclaiming to be necessary, even though you may well choose to optionally set up your system in that kind of way... yet your framing bitcoin accumulation levels with a lot of presumptions that there are needs to establish other income sources seems quite presumptuous and wrong, especially if you had already achieved enough and/or more than enough BTC.  Sure if you are still accumulating bitcoin then maybe you might still need to work or to create income from other sources, but once you have reached overaccumulation status, you might not need to jump through so many of the hoops that you seem to be presuming to be necessary to jump through.

I repeat again, no matter how promising Bitcoin can be don't take the risk of putting all your hopes on it for daily survival.

Hm?  You seem to be presuming a lot and repeating similar warning errors.  Sure there can be value in diversifying, yet we need to consider where we are at in our BTC accumulation journey in terms of whether we are still accumulating or if we have already overly accumulated.  Then also we may well need to consider the extent to which we are reasonably valuating our BTC in light of whether we ONLY have BTC and cash or if we might have other investments by the time we get to a status that we consider to be overaccumulation of bitcoin (presuming that we might have reasonably assessed ourselves to have had reached such overaccumulation status).

[Agbamoni]

Instead of filling here with trading discussion when we are discussing how to buy and continue buying and holding, why not we take some of these discussion to the section meant for trading alone. There you can share your knowledge and experience about trading and it will be better appreciated because in here, most participants in this discussion are more focused in building their Bitcoin portfolio for long term HODL rather than buying and selling within a short interval of time which is what trading is basically about. I don't think there is anyone that condemned you for talking about trading just that your comments seems to be supporting trading in the wrong board, that is what I understand should be creating the reaction you are receiving from many people.

Most of us here have tried trading before learning how to invest and hold. If you will be honest with yourself, you will accept that holding comes with certain degree of peace that cannot be found in trading because in trading, your capital is constantly exposed to risk daily and weekly. This is the reason why many chose never to trade but concentrate in buying and holding.

In as much as we have passed through some processes of trading in life and have figured out that buying and hodling for the long term is probably the best approach to go about Bitcoin investment. This doesn't mean we can force our own side of things into another person. People will always make a decision that best suits their interests. And again, I wouldn't want to force my view on someone who hasn't seen the brighter side of it. Of course, we can share opinions and if such a person does not have his own personal condition it will be difficult for them to deviate from what they see is right.

Am sure many of us here have one way or another tried trading in the past. We know how long it took us to understand that it was the wrong path before we committed ourselves to long-term goals. In the meantime, there is a better approach to tell Tungbulu how dangerous trading is. Perhaps a real-life scenario/experience will be more encouraging. Let's just don't forget we didn't get to know about Bitcoin in the twinkle of an eye. Things we did wrong were part of what built our knowledge of how progressive and successful we have been in our investment.

[batang_bitcoin]

~snip~

What a very good way to consider things about selling and accumulation. It's true that I have accumulated a bit in those early years of BTC but I've sold some from those points of ATHs that we've got in the past but the good thing is that I didn't oversold and still able to accumulate. And I think if ever someone has overaccumulated, it's better than someone overselling huge portions of his holdings. I'm glad that I didn't or I am just patting my back so that I won't remember mistakes that I did that can be considerably huge in valuation now knowing that the price of BTC has been up already. Well, considering accumulation and selling, someone's gonna be in a tough situation about being in both place but I think someone thinking about selling now is having a good problem compared to someone who's struggling to accumulate and didn't know whether they'll continue or not from this point because BTC keeps hitting new ATHs.

[JayJuanGee]

[edited out]

Maybe you’re not wrong, but then again, you know what they say about no knowledge being a waste right? While I’m of the same opinion that Bitcoin accumulation and long term approach should be paramount to other approaches, is it not worth the lengthy literature for those who are naive about these facts? There are those amongst us who even after knowing that the best approach to winning in Bitcoin is through consistent accumulation and focusing on the long term trajectory of Bitcoin, but still cannot resist the temptation of delving into trading, is it not better to educate these guys and then possibly make them realize the magnitude of their actions and decisions, because one of the major reasons that drives investors into trading is mostly lack of adequate education on the matter, so perhaps their people could also use the medium to learn too on how to stay safe and mitigate losses while continuing in their accumulation process.

Passing the wrong knowledge to a set of people could be doing more harm than good, This knowledge would've been more valuable in the trading discussions board and not here. This information may be misleading to some very new investors who are still trying to find their balance in both knowledge and attitude towards their accumulation journey. I would not support any investor considering trading even for a moment in order to have a very smooth DCA and reach your accumulation target as planned by the investor, an investor should uphold discipline in his accumulation journey and one of the disciplines I made sure I observed was never looking in the direction of trading and so far it has helped me remain focused on my DCA only and I am not changing that pattern anytime soon.

Mind you, I’m not promoting trading in anyway, I’ve had my own share of losses in trading due to ignorance, so now I believe I know better and the least I could do is share my experiences and knowledge so others could also avoid falling into the same trade and ensure they make better investment choices to avoid financial losses. Or wouldn’t you agree with me mate?

How can you say you didn't promote trading after all that writeup explaining about trading, its similarity with gambling and the percentage of income to be apportioned to it. Of course you did promote it, maybe not intentionally. It would do us great good if we remain focused to bitcoin accumulation discussions in this thread and also help and encourage each other towards developing the right attitudes towards our finances and becoming successful long-term Bitcoin investors. As soon as we start distracting ourselves with other unnecessary concerns, we might loose our focus and it is not healthy for us as committed investors.
[/quote]

This particular thread is not exclusive to discussions of investment, even though surely it seems that a lot of guys in this thread seem to be arguing in favor of investing, and even I am neither an advocate of trading nor do I consider trading to be a good idea when it comes to bitcoin.

I personally see no problem to argue against trading, yet to proclaim that trading is off-topic in this particular thread seems wrong.

Another thing is that even though we are in the bitcoin section of the forum, OP did not clarify that he was talking about (or referring to bitcoin), so even though I am against shitcoins too, and I mostly consider that shitcoin discussions are not productive within bitcoin threads, the OP surely did not clarify which "coin" he was talking about and he seem to even be implying that there is some value in trying to figure out which coin to invest into, implying that he likely did not know the difference between bitcoin and shitcoins and in that regard, he failed to really make a clear description regarding what he was referring to.. I also don't like such vagueness in posts, even though the whole basis of this thread was opened up with such vagueness, which might even justify  closing the thread, even though it is a pretty active thread with ongoing posts and onto 110 pages in the last 9-ish months (long enough for a baby).

[edited out

Everyone should be careful while investing in this amazing moment of Bitcoin price growth to add a portion from alternative income sources. An investor who aims to accumulate wealth for a long time by engaging himself with a generational wealth accumulation goal should not be hopeless for an investor. Earning from a single source is risky and time and circumstances tempt you to be informed about different sources and the positive sign of Bitcoin accumulation is that you are more available. Assets like Bitcoin should be given similar priority than real assets potential for savings over the years, such as holding floating cash and the recommendation is to let DCA flow down your driveway like a floating lake. Your advice to try to increase holdings of risky assets and not just rely on it may be correct and positive for investors to have risk free capital and increase generational wealth in the long run.

In conclusion I would say that the advice of not taking any risk on investment may be very reasonable and the possibility of losing assets can be greatly reduced if an investor is able to successfully execute DCA and the assets that he/she owns are his/her discretionary income.

Quite a bit of your post is confusing, yet if I just look at your conclusion section, you seem to be confused about what you are talking about.  DCA only works with a long term investment like bitcoin that has sufficiently strong enough fundamentals for the investor to conclude (or speculate) that he believes that the odds are decently well that the BTC price is going to continue to go up during his investment timeline, such as 4-10 years or longer (sure it is not guaranteed, but the investor would achieve a sufficient enough level of confidence that he could continue to DCA into bitcoin and not even really worry about the price so long as he is planning to accumulate for 4-10 years or longer.

Your mentioning of "assets" makes it appear that you don't know what the fuck you are talking about if you actually are speculating that some various other coins (not bitcoin) are actually worthy of DCAing into and that enough confidence could be mustered up to treat any other asset (except bitcoin) as if it had long term potential and it was worthy of DCAing into rather than figuring out its pumping and dumping potentials/timeline.

Regarding your gobble-dee gook reference to discretionary income, it seems you don't understand such term, which largely the use of the term discretionary income is to refer to figuring out how much income is left over after accounting for expenses, and if you are referring to already owning assets and considering the extent to which such assets need to stay as investments or to be reallocated, you just seem to be mixing up ideas and/or failing to use the term discretionary income in a way that inspires confidence that you understand the way that you are using it... or the meaning of the idea.

I am not trying to pick on you, but I just wanted to point out that your conclusion seems to be summarizing confusion within your whole post, even if you might have some decently good ideas, you are presenting them in confusing ways.

However, if you are in your bitcoin accumulation process and have not reached your bitcoin target, it's impossible for you to say that you want to live on your bitcoin investment, because you need a job to continue accumulating more bitcoin and anyone without a job will not be able to invest in bitcoin and grow his portfolio, which will make you start selling too much of your bitcoin, too quick and you will regret your actions in the long run.

Even if you have reached your Bitcoin accumulation target never say fuck you to your main source of income. Whatever the level of knowledge we think we have acquire its a huge risk to quit our job. 90% of success in Bitcoin investment is long term, consistency and patience. Instead of quitting why not we continue a stable investment to live off or save for a business that you can rely on. The only time i can agree to someone quitting his job is if it is not a good paying job and when an individual has made enough to retire.

It seems to me that you are misunderstanding what it might mean to reach fuck you status, and surely you realize that you can quit your job if you have made enough to retire, so why is that different from quitting ones job when they have enough BTC?

For sure, the more BTC you have the more options you have in regards to income off of it, and there could be errors in calculating the value of your BTC, so surely there are a lot of examples of people who pull their fuck you levers way too early because they miscalculate how much BTC they actually need in order to live off of them and how to valuate them and to valuate their standard of living expenses (or increases in their standard of living due to debasement of the dollar/fiat or from chosen increases of lifestyle expenses).

Most importantly we should not forget to point out the individual differences and our peculiar situations before reaching a fuck you stage, I remember a guy that bought a lot of Bitcoin when the price was low and Banks in my country allowed for direct Bitcoin transactions through the Bank, before the government restrictions, the dude thought that with his current amount of Bitcoin holdings he gave reached the level of fuck you stage with his bank employees, and when a policy that doesn't goes well with him came he quit his job too early, and instead of holding on to his Bitcoin holdings, he dived into some other alternatives investment by liquidating his Bitcoin holdings to channel the money into some other business.

But not long he realize that he gave messed up and need to restrategize so the experience makes us very important to know the exact time to say fuck you and leave on your Bitcoin, he who holds BTC have freedom and there is no need to exchange your Bitcoin to invest in some other alternatives, rsther one should think of hoe to increase your total bitcoun holdings to increase your profits potential in the future.

It is difficult to NOT make those same kind of mistakes as your friend, and sometimes we can become arrogant with our gains and slip into too much risk taking and/or not knowing how to manage the value that we had already built, even if there might be some other possible places to diversify some of the wealth, which truly there are quite a few of us (including yours truly) who consider needs to focus on building the bitcoin wealth first and really not selling any BTC prior to reaching a sufficiently large stash, which sure is part of the problem that your friend seemed to have in regards to both his selling his BTC, but even if he had reached a sufficiently large stash, he still should have ONLY begun to sell small parts of the stash, at most, if such a selling were to be justifiable, yet with your friend, it seems that he was not even close to having a large enough stash to begin to sell any of it.

Another related mistake that people tend to make is to calculate the whole size of their BTC stash and start to consider what they can do with such capital to put it to work in other ways, yet from my point of view, it can be problematic to start to calculate from the total value of the stash in terms of spot price without accounting for the 200-WMA, yet even calculating from the 200-WMA is not really going to help anyone if they are seeing their BTC stash into high profits as comparing spot price to the 200-WMA when they start to see the difference as a justification to try to trade their BTC rather than considering other ways to potentially manage the building of their stash or even just potentially using their free cash to buy other things besides bitcoin if they see that the BTC price might be several times higher than the 200-WMA..

Even right now, as I type this post, we can see that BTC spot price is nearly 130% higher than the 200-WMA, which could create incentives to sell or try to trade the BTC stash, even though historically (such as December 17, 2017), we have seen periods in which spot BTC prices had gotten more than 1,400% higher than the 200-WMA, and sure we cannot necessarily expect such high levels in the future, yet with such abilities to look at BTC prices compared with the 200-WMA, newbies can get confused about what to do or even folks who have been accumulating BTC for less than 4 years also might get confused about what to do.

I am not going to proclaim that I know all of the answers, even though there is a certain value to continue accumulating during at least the first 4 years of your bitcoin journey no matter the BTC price, yet at the same time, it becomes quite harder to justify continuing to buy BTC if the BTC spot price ends up several multiples (and/or magnitudes) higher than the 200-WMA.. so each guy has to figure out how he is going to deal with those kinds of situations, if they come, and based on their own personal circumstances, while realizing that each of us is responsible for our own choices in regards to manage our BTC accumulation periods, our BTC maintenance or wherever we might be in our bitcoin journey at the time of such occurrences, if they end up happening...

Instead of filling here with trading discussion when we are discussing how to buy and continue buying and holding, why not we take some of these discussion to the section meant for trading alone. There you can share your knowledge and experience about trading and it will be better appreciated because in here, most participants in this discussion are more focused in building their Bitcoin portfolio for long term HODL rather than buying and selling within a short interval of time which is what trading is basically about. I don't think there is anyone that condemned you for talking about trading just that your comments seems to be supporting trading in the wrong board, that is what I understand should be creating the reaction you are receiving from many people.

Most of us here have tried trading before learning how to invest and hold. If you will be honest with yourself, you will accept that holding comes with certain degree of peace that cannot be found in trading because in trading, your capital is constantly exposed to risk daily and weekly. This is the reason why many chose never to trade but concentrate in buying and holding.

In as much as we have passed through some processes of trading in life and have figured out that buying and hodling for the long term is probably the best approach to go about Bitcoin investment. This doesn't mean we can force our own side of things into another person. People will always make a decision that best suits their interests. And again, I wouldn't want to force my view on someone who hasn't seen the brighter side of it. Of course, we can share opinions and if such a person does not have his own personal condition it will be difficult for them to deviate from what they see is right.

I largely agree (and maybe almost completely agree) with you that people are responsible for their own choices, and in that regard, it likely is not even polite or proper to be overly attempting to impose our views upon them, yet at the same, time I am not going to agree with you in regards to people knowing what is in their own best interest or presuming that they are going to make anything even close to the right decision, when it comes to bitcoin or any other thing in life.

Some kinds of decisions are more discretionary than others, and so sometimes people are not very good in regards to exercising their own discretion, yet sometimes there might ONLY be so much that we should to or might try to do to save people from themselves, which also might relate to how well we know them and/or how much time we might want to spend attempting to help them to help themselves.  Surely there could be times that we are wrong and/or that we are overly imposing ourselves and our views on others, so we sometimes might not even realize our own limitations and/or the limitations within our own points of view, whether it is about bitcoin or any other topic.

Am sure many of us here have one way or another tried trading in the past.

Yep.. and so we can consider that there is a lot of temptations within trading, so sometimes it can be difficult to persuade or stop someone if we think that they are going down such a path and we might not even be convinced ourselves in regards to how we might want to attempt to deal with a situation that might seem like a tempting trade to us, and maybe we might consider some kind of a resolution that involves adjusting the position size rather than completely eliminating carrying out the trade... but yeah, even ideas about position size could be controversial if we consider that there might not be any advantage in carrying out a certain trade, yet the other person (who might have their own money at stake) may well be 100% convinced that trading is a good idea.. and if we might not be even close to thinking the same way, we might have to distance ourself from such a discussion, even though in some situations it could be difficult if we might be interacting with a family member as compared with interacting with nearly a complete stranger...and of course, variations in between those levels of familiarity with the other person with whom we have a difference of opinion (perspectives).

We know how long it took us to understand that it was the wrong path before we committed ourselves to long-term goals.

We can have variations in our progress in regards to moving in a non-trading perspective when it comes to bitcoin, and we might have relapses, and we might even end up making our own mistakes, so I wouldn't proclaim that everyone is free from figuring out how to deal with their temptation to trade BTC.

In the meantime, there is a better approach to tell Tungbulu how dangerous trading is. Perhaps a real-life scenario/experience will be more encouraging.

Examples can surely be helpful in terms of trying to show contrasting perspectives, and/or to attempt to clarify confusions or differences of opinion.

Let's just don't forget we didn't get to know about Bitcoin in the twinkle of an eye. Things we did wrong were part of what built our knowledge of how progressive and successful we have been in our investment.

There are all kinds of mistakes that each of us likely have to make or end up making along the way, and so many of us came to bitcoin with differing levels of experience, knowledge and/or even talents for learning.  I agree with you that we might not be able to prevent mistakes of others from happening, even though there could be ways that we are still able to help others (again depending on our level of relationship with such others) to lessen chances that any of their mistakes will contribute to their becoming completely reckt or to overly frustrate them in their bitcoin journey, so there still might be ways to help others without overly imposing ourselves on them.. Some examples could help in this part of the discussion if we were to really want to explore some situation in which we might be thinking about some kind of a relationship with someone else in which we might want to try to intervene more than in others, but also many of us likely come across relationships in which we will want to do the opposite of what the other person is saying, just because we find that other person to be so annoying.. so we purposefully do the opposite, which may or may not end up being a good way of interacting.

~snip~

What a very good way to consider things about selling and accumulation. It's true that I have accumulated a bit in those early years of BTC but I've sold some from those points of ATHs that we've got in the past but the good thing is that I didn't oversold and still able to accumulate. And I think if ever someone has overaccumulated, it's better than someone overselling huge portions of his holdings. I'm glad that I didn't or I am just patting my back so that I won't remember mistakes that I did that can be considerably huge in valuation now knowing that the price of BTC has been up already. Well, considering accumulation and selling, someone's gonna be in a tough situation about being in both place but I think someone thinking about selling now is having a good problem compared to someone who's struggling to accumulate and didn't know whether they'll continue or not from this point because BTC keeps hitting new ATHs.

I am not sure if I completely agree with your comparison of the newbie to the one who has already accumulated a decent amount of BTC.  Surely the one who has already accumulated a decent amount of BTC, that person is going to have more options based on already having had accumulated BTC,  yet such person still could end up getting themselves in a pickle if they are overly selling and not even realizing that they are overly selling, but yeah, we cannot save anyone from themselves, since there are quite a few slippery slope matters when it comes to each person attempting to figure out his own 9 individual factors in which ONLY one of those factors deals with perceptions of BTC prices as compared with other places that money can be placed, and so it could become problematic for any newbie to be placing too much emphasis on perceptions of BTC prices, yet even a more experienced BTC accumulator could also get sucked into a similar trap based on his own overly weighting the BTC price matter instead of making sure that he really does sufficiently understand his spot in regards to the other 8 factors.

Of course, with your own 8.5 years in bitcoin (going by your forum registration date), you likely have had several opportunities to get better acquainted with your 9 individual factors (without only overly focusing on your perceptions of BTC price as compared with other possible places that you can put your value), so it is more likely that you are going to have developed some kind of a plan that is more in sync with your other 8 factors.. or at least putting those other 8 factors into your equation in terms of how to deal with various BTC price moves.

[Franctoshi]

Instead of filling here with trading discussion when we are discussing how to buy and continue buying and holding, why not we take some of these discussion to the section meant for trading alone. There you can share your knowledge and experience about trading and it will be better appreciated because in here, most participants in this discussion are more focused in building their Bitcoin portfolio for long term HODL rather than buying and selling within a short interval of time which is what trading is basically about. I don't think there is anyone that condemned you for talking about trading just that your comments seems to be supporting trading in the wrong board, that is what I understand should be creating the reaction you are receiving from many people.

Most of us here have tried trading before learning how to invest and hold. If you will be honest with yourself, you will accept that holding comes with certain degree of peace that cannot be found in trading because in trading, your capital is constantly exposed to risk daily and weekly. This is the reason why many chose never to trade but concentrate in buying and holding.

In as much as we have passed through some processes of trading in life and have figured out that buying and hodling for the long term is probably the best approach to go about Bitcoin investment. This doesn't mean we can force our own side of things into another person. People will always make a decision that best suits their interests. And again, I wouldn't want to force my view on someone who hasn't seen the brighter side of it. Of course, we can share opinions and if such a person does not have his own personal condition it will be difficult for them to deviate from what they see is right.

Am sure many of us here have one way or another tried trading in the past. We know how long it took us to understand that it was the wrong path before we committed ourselves to long-term goals. In the meantime, there is a better approach to tell Tungbulu how dangerous trading is. Perhaps a real-life scenario/experience will be more encouraging. Let's just don't forget we didn't get to know about Bitcoin in the twinkle of an eye. Things we did wrong were part of what built our knowledge of how progressive and successful we have been in our investment.

And this is basically when people are ignorant of what they are doing, and I doubt if anyone with proper knowledge about BTC would tend to go trading way instead of to HODL. This is why Bitcoin education is very important, sometimes people love to learn from experience without learning from other people's experiences and in some cases they learn the hard way, meaning when they must have lost a reasonable amount of money in the process of trading, that's when they look for the best way.

HODLing Bitcoin is the best bet ever to go about Bitcoin investment, I remember back in 2017 owing above 0.5 Bitcoin when Bitcoin was relatively cheap, but guess what, I almost lost it all because I never had this education now.
If people would start to see HODLing Bitcoin, as in owing a landed property, we would barely tell people to HODL.

Most People I have seen who are into landed property investment only sell land to buy another land at cheaper prices, meaning you can only sell your Bitcoin to Buy more Bitcoin, selling some portion at the top to buy back the dips.

[Sim_card]

Instead of filling here with trading discussion when we are discussing how to buy and continue buying and holding, why not we take some of these discussion to the section meant for trading alone. There you can share your knowledge and experience about trading and it will be better appreciated because in here, most participants in this discussion are more focused in building their Bitcoin portfolio for long term HODL rather than buying and selling within a short interval of time which is what trading is basically about. I don't think there is anyone that condemned you for talking about trading just that your comments seems to be supporting trading in the wrong board, that is what I understand should be creating the reaction you are receiving from many people.

Most of us here have tried trading before learning how to invest and hold. If you will be honest with yourself, you will accept that holding comes with certain degree of peace that cannot be found in trading because in trading, your capital is constantly exposed to risk daily and weekly. This is the reason why many chose never to trade but concentrate in buying and holding.

In as much as we have passed through some processes of trading in life and have figured out that buying and hodling for the long term is probably the best approach to go about Bitcoin investment. This doesn't mean we can force our own side of things into another person. People will always make a decision that best suits their interests. And again, I wouldn't want to force my view on someone who hasn't seen the brighter side of it. Of course, we can share opinions and if such a person does not have his own personal condition it will be difficult for them to deviate from what they see is right.

Am sure many of us here have one way or another tried trading in the past. We know how long it took us to understand that it was the wrong path before we committed ourselves to long-term goals. In the meantime, there is a better approach to tell Tungbulu how dangerous trading is. Perhaps a real-life scenario/experience will be more encouraging. Let's just don't forget we didn't get to know about Bitcoin in the twinkle of an eye. Things we did wrong were part of what built our knowledge of how progressive and successful we have been in our investment.

And this is basically when people are ignorant of what they are doing, and I doubt if anyone with proper knowledge about BTC would tend to go trading way instead of to HODL. This is why Bitcoin education is very important, sometimes people love to learn from experience without learning from other people's experiences and in some cases they learn the hard way, meaning when they must have lost a reasonable amount of money in the process of trading, that's when they look for the best way.

HODLing Bitcoin is the best bet ever to go about Bitcoin investment, I remember back in 2017 owing above 0.5 Bitcoin when Bitcoin was relatively cheap, but guess what, I almost lost it all because I never had this education now.
If people would start to see HODLing Bitcoin, as in owing a landed property, we would barely tell people to HODL.

Most People I have seen who are into landed property investment only sell land to buy another land at cheaper prices, meaning you can only sell your Bitcoin to Buy more Bitcoin, selling some portion at the top to buy back the dips.

Buying and selling back to buy again is trading and trading is also gambling. So why would you love to gamble with you bitcoin if you intend to be a long-term hodler. Any investor that just started his bitcoin journey shouldn't think of selling at any point during bis accumulation journey because what if you sell and plan to buy back then an unforeseen problem comes, you will be forced to use part of the money that you got from your bitcoin investment, reducing the funds and distracting you to stay focus on increasing amd growing your bitcoin portfolio.

You sound more of a trader mate, and I will tell you that in the long run traders are losers because they will be left with very little bitcoin portfolio or they have sold it all chasing little profit. Hodli, alone is another means of increasing your bitcoin portfolio if you don't sell at all but only buying more every week or month because of the compounding effect of your bitcoin portfolio overtime. If you sell and buy back, you will lose the compounding effect of bitcoin. This is why it's not good to think that you can double your bitcoin with trading. The best way to increase your portfolio, is regular DCA weekly purchase for 4-10 years and above, and lump sum if he have the funds.

You said is to sell and buy at the dip what if the dip didn't come just like the way bitcoin price is moving currently. If you have sold two days ago at 73k+, how will you buy back now that bitcoin is 96k+, it means that you will continue waiting till the bull run is over, by then you must have used some of the funds or all of it. Slow and steady increase is the best way to go about your bitcoin long-term investment to avoid termination along your way up.

[CryptoHeadlineNews]

Anyone that has plan to live off his pension at old age, or doesn't want to continue the rat race at old age will understand the opportunity that bitcoin is bringing to his door step to solve such problem if only he can take the advantage now and invest and grow his bitcoin portfolio for the future because the opportunity bitcoin has to transform your financial status from one level to a higher one is real. Trading is the opposite.

That's true by the way about what the future holds for those who invest in Bitcoin holds it without selling it for a very long period of time. And secondly, despite the fact that holding Bitcoin for a very long time is good, it doesn't make it better than trading it, because there have been people who traded Bitcoin and equally made a fortune from it, and by that I mean those who trade with "Futures".  Hence, my sincere advice to newbies will be that if you can afford both (i.e trading and investing long term) you can go about it. But if you can't afford both, it's better you just buy and forget about it for very long time.

[Ruttoshi]

Most People I have seen who are into landed property investment only sell land to buy another land at cheaper prices, meaning you can only sell your Bitcoin to Buy more Bitcoin, selling some portion at the top to buy back the dips.

Land is an asset but you don't treat bitcoin the same way that you treat a land. Bitcoin has given us the opportunity to buy with a little amount and you don't need big funds to start your bitcoin investment provided that you have a discretionary income even as low as $10 or $20, you can invest in bitcoin. This is why when you are investing this amount every week from your discretionary income regularly in order for you to be able to be increasing your bitcoin portfolio overtime.

Bitcoin investment is for the future, is just like you are saving 10% of your income in the bank so that you can have a huge amount of money at old age when you can use it to back up your financial life when you are old. This is how you should treat your bitcoin investment, you only add and not take so that you can reach your bitcoin target by staying focus on building and growing your portfolio.

A new investor shouldn't think about profit since he just started his bitcoin investment journey so that he does not make the wrong choice but rather see bitcoin as a means of saving his funds because it is an investment that give you good profit in the long term, since bitcoin price has the high odds of an uptrend movement than downtrend movement since it is in its maturing state.

No matter how smart you think you are in buying low and sell high believing to buy back at low price, you are a trader and you are not exceptional from the consequences of trading. Bitcoin is worth more than land, and so treat your bitcoin investment like something that's not worth selling and precious to you so that you can reach your bitcoin target with dedication and all seriousness by keeping your bitcoin accumulation ongoing, rather than slowing it down when you sell to buy back because that's a dangerous approach for a long-term investor.

[JayJuanGee]

Anyone that has plan to live off his pension at old age, or doesn't want to continue the rat race at old age will understand the opportunity that bitcoin is bringing to his door step to solve such problem if only he can take the advantage now and invest and grow his bitcoin portfolio for the future because the opportunity bitcoin has to transform your financial status from one level to a higher one is real. Trading is the opposite.

That's true by the way about what the future holds for those who invest in Bitcoin holds it without selling it for a very long period of time. And secondly, despite the fact that holding Bitcoin for a very long time is good, it doesn't make it better than trading it, because there have been people who traded Bitcoin and equally made a fortune from it, and by that I mean those who trade with "Futures".  Hence, my sincere advice to newbies will be that if you can afford both (i.e trading and investing long term) you can go about it. But if you can't afford both, it's better you just buy and forget about it for very long time.

If you are such a smartie pants CryptoHeadlineNews, then how is your trading doing for you?

If you had started buying $500 per week of bitcoin at around the time of your forum registration date in June 2021, right now you would have invested right around $89,500 and you would have about 2.6385 BTC. 

Are you doing better than that with whatever supposed hybrid approach you are proclaiming to be better? 

Of course, if your timeline in bitcoin is longer, such as 6-10 years or more, then it would have had been even more difficult to actually beat a straight-forward DCA approach to bitcoin with fucking around with trading.. so I doubt BTC trading is something that normal people should screw around with especially when they have a pretty great investment already available to them (namely BTC) and perhaps there is not any other investment that it widely available like BTC.

[cryptoWODL]

Yes, Bitcoin is a long-term asset, and its success is very high. And the examples of high success of Bitcoin are in front of us, such as MicroStrategy, BlackRock, El Salvador, Tesla, Metaplanet, there are also some other big Bitcoin holders who have been holding Bitcoin for a long time, and today they are very successful, and they are going to achieve more success in the future, because Bitcoin is going to be more valuable in the future.
History is a witness that long-term holders are the ones who ultimately benefit the most. Because if we think about the price of Bitcoin exactly 2 years ago, then the price of Bitcoin was below $30K, and today the price of Bitcoin is at an all-time high and it made the best ATH of all time 10 hours ago which was $94K.
That is, those who have been patiently buying long-term DCA for 2 years have already made a good profit.

Yes these investors have hold Bitcoin for a long time. This has resulted in an increase in their investment portfolio as well as their Bitcoin holdings price. Maybe there are some countries and some companies who have been holding Bitcoin for a long time now they are famous and big investors in the world. Basically the goal of these investors is to buy and hold Bitcoin for a long time. El Salvador became the first country to accept Bitcoin as legal tender in 2021 and since then the country has steadily purchased Bitcoin. Already this country has managed to accumulate about BTC59,41 bitcoins in their investment portfolio with a current market value of about $578.138 million. On the other hand, the company MicroStrategy started buying Bitcoins from 2020, this company has also been buying Bitcoins continuously. The company already has BTC331,200 bitcoins in its investment portfolio. These investors didn't buy all the bitcoins at once, they bought bitcoins gradually through DCA. Maybe they will continue to buy bitcoins in the future which will increase their investment amount as the price of bitcoins increases in the future.

And if Bitcoin is going to grow even more in the future, then those investors are going to make much more profit in the future.

Of course, the price of Bitcoin will continue to increase in the future. Bitcoin continues to show an upward trend. Maybe this chart clearly proves that Bitcoin has grown every year and created new ATH. Compared to last year i.e. compared to 2023, The price of Bitcoin has almost doubled. Today Bitcoin price $97,852 (ATH)

[Tmoonz]

Most People I have seen who are into landed property investment only sell land to buy another land at cheaper prices, meaning you can only sell your Bitcoin to Buy more Bitcoin, selling some portion at the top to buy back the dips.

Creating such comparison or similarity between Bitcoin and landed property in terms of investment is very wrong and can be misleading because at some point when considering what derives the price of Bitcoin going up or coming down is not as the same as that of landed property, Bitcoin price is the same all over the world, but you will end up buying a landed property in different prices
all over the world based on locations, Bitcoin is not a quick and get rich scheme selling some portions to back at the dips is very unrealistic because the market is uncertain and you can sell and end up buying at a price higher than your selling point, i believe one of the reason why consistency of increasing our Bitcoin size and hold for a longer period of time is for us to reap more than just a peanut and possibly pass on to our generation.

[sotelorene]

You know the thing is that many people think that it is easy to make a profit basically the traders I believe that even though you know what you're doing in Trading that will not make you to think that every time you be involved in making profit if it is so many people would have become a billionaire in Trading but I know quite well that all these things is all about luck and opportunity so if you don't have such opportunity something that you'll be able to make profit.

I think trading is the most risky, because till date the person who has traded has not been successful.  But individuals who hold bitcoins and institutions that hold bitcoins are largely successful. So I can prove that it is possible to reach the top of the greatest success not only in trading but also in holding, such as Microstrategy Company, Nayib Bukele, the government of the country of El Salvador, all these people are holding Bitcoin long-term and today they are successful. Bitcoin cannot be sold as the price of Bitcoin has increased the most, because we have not passed the time until the end of the bull run.  
So only those holding by following DCA method are the only best holding, currently there is still ample opportunity for holding by DCA method.

Trading and Holding has been an issue we've had a lot of discussions about overtime, and a lot of people have highlighted reasons as to why they prefer holding for long and others have also said why they prefer trading. However the contest has always been between successful traders and successful holders. Traders will come and pontificate about how fast they make their profit, and how best trading has been for them, the truth is that, some of them are actually right, but one thing they always fail to discuss about is the risk involved, they tend to play down the risk factors involved, though it is always said in our local parlance, the higher the risk, the greater the reward. So for me I always allow those that are good with risks taking to go for what they believe in, because it's a free world.

Holding has its own rest of mind, holding doesn't have the kind of risk factors associated with trading, so a lot of people prefer holding as it gives them what they want in a long time.

Even though individuals can make their choices of whether to trade or hold for a long term but the truth has to be pin point that Bitcoin is best performed when allowed to exercise that very potential of appreciating over the long term, now the question is, has it not proven it's self ad to this regard? The answer is it has proven itself over time that it is the best to be viewed on a long term perspective rather than chasing after few dollar profits without peace of mind, holding is the best and shouldn't be compared to trading for short term profit.

I'm not actually saying that holding is not good or the best per say but sometimes we shouldn't make our interest or what we do look like without it one can't make something good out. we don't judge something simply because we can't do it or simply because it's not working well for us. Protecting one's interest is good no doubt but it shouldn't be alarming especially when it comes to investment ( Bitcoin investment). There are people who are making cool money in trading despite the loss after all loss is paramount when it comes to trading or investment, those who are into trading sometimes do even more better than  ordinary investor reason because, some of them anytime they made profit in their trade, they split the money and use some to invest while they are still trading, knowing how to this is very good and interesting.

[Marvelockg]

Most People I have seen who are into landed property investment only sell land to buy another land at cheaper prices, meaning you can only sell your Bitcoin to Buy more Bitcoin, selling some portion at the top to buy back the dips.

Creating such comparison or similarity between Bitcoin and landed property in terms of investment is very wrong and can be misleading because at some point when considering what derives the price of Bitcoin going up or coming down is not as the same as that of landed property, Bitcoin price is the same all over the world, but you will end up buying a landed property in different prices
all over the world based on locations, Bitcoin is not a quick and get rich scheme selling some portions to back at the dips is very unrealistic because the market is uncertain and you can sell and end up buying at a price higher than your selling point, i believe one of the reason why consistency of increasing our Bitcoin size and hold for a longer period of time is for us to reap more than just a peanut and possibly pass on to our generation.

he fails to understand that the concept selling to buy back at a cheaper rate can't even work in most land setting let alone trying to sell your bitcoin with the plan of buying back at a much cheaper rate. count back to the last five months and pick out a month where you sell to buy back, for the most part of it, you will find out that you have placed yourself at a position where you can't buy back at any price that's close to that range because bitcoin has far surpassed that value that you've probably sold it at.

we can't even talk about price of land as being volatile when we are considering a fixed location which is the only way you can relate it to bitcoin. buy a land at point A this month and go back to that same land to buy it again after some months, you will find out that it has appreciated drastically overtime.

as it stands, it's the accumulation season and even if you've built your bitcoin portfolio to a strong quantity, it's still the best thing to do that we continue buying and not sell it even for the sake of buying back or even if your intention is to use it to solve a particular need. why even think of selling an asset that's currently one of the most valuable assets classes in the world? it's even better that if you lack the means of buying more bitcoin that you slow down, strategize and refire again rather than tampering with the one you already have in your possession.

[Proty]

You know the thing is that many people think that it is easy to make a profit basically the traders I believe that even though you know what you're doing in Trading that will not make you to think that every time you be involved in making profit if it is so many people would have become a billionaire in Trading but I know quite well that all these things is all about luck and opportunity so if you don't have such opportunity something that you'll be able to make profit.

I think trading is the most risky, because till date the person who has traded has not been successful.  But individuals who hold bitcoins and institutions that hold bitcoins are largely successful. So I can prove that it is possible to reach the top of the greatest success not only in trading but also in holding, such as Microstrategy Company, Nayib Bukele, the government of the country of El Salvador, all these people are holding Bitcoin long-term and today they are successful. Bitcoin cannot be sold as the price of Bitcoin has increased the most, because we have not passed the time until the end of the bull run.  
So only those holding by following DCA method are the only best holding, currently there is still ample opportunity for holding by DCA method.

Trading and Holding has been an issue we've had a lot of discussions about overtime, and a lot of people have highlighted reasons as to why they prefer holding for long and others have also said why they prefer trading. However the contest has always been between successful traders and successful holders. Traders will come and pontificate about how fast they make their profit, and how best trading has been for them, the truth is that, some of them are actually right, but one thing they always fail to discuss about is the risk involved, they tend to play down the risk factors involved, though it is always said in our local parlance, the higher the risk, the greater the reward. So for me I always allow those that are good with risks taking to go for what they believe in, because it's a free world.

Holding has its own rest of mind, holding doesn't have the kind of risk factors associated with trading, so a lot of people prefer holding as it gives them what they want in a long time.

Even though individuals can make their choices of whether to trade or hold for a long term but the truth has to be pin point that Bitcoin is best performed when allowed to exercise that very potential of appreciating over the long term, now the question is, has it not proven it's self ad to this regard? The answer is it has proven itself over time that it is the best to be viewed on a long term perspective rather than chasing after few dollar profits without peace of mind, holding is the best and shouldn't be compared to trading for short term profit.

I'm not actually saying that holding is not good or the best per say but sometimes we shouldn't make our interest or what we do look like without it one can't make something good out. we don't judge something simply because we can't do it or simply because it's not working well for us. Protecting one's interest is good no doubt but it shouldn't be alarming especially when it comes to investment ( Bitcoin investment). There are people who are making cool money in trading despite the loss after all loss is paramount when it comes to trading or investment, those who are into trading sometimes do even more better than  ordinary investor reason because, some of them anytime they made profit in their trade, they split the money and use some to invest while they are still trading, knowing how to this is very good and interesting.

Well if you are saying that people should consider short term profit potential  them you are a trader and not an investor,  selling out your bitcoin when you are still in your early phase of accumulation with the plans of buying more when it dips is very wrong approach and I don't know where you get this idea from. You don't know the worth of bitcoin and you seen to be short sighted in knowing the potential of bitcoin when  view in terms of long term investment because comparing those who has been fucking around trading just to get dollar profit and those who has been holding bitcoin for 8-10yrs the difference is quite clear so I would advise you focus on accumulating bitcoin and hold for 8-10yrs or more and stop thinking of short term profit, bitcoin is best appreciated when view in terms long term investment

[CageMabok]

Well if you are saying that people should consider short term profit potential  them you are a trader and not an investor,  selling out your bitcoin when you are still in your early phase of accumulation with the plans of buying more when it dips is very wrong approach and I don't know where you get this idea from. You don't know the worth of bitcoin because comparing those who has been fucking around trading just to get dollar profit and those who has been holding bitcoin for 8-10yrs the difference is quite clearly so I would advise you focus on accumulating bitcoin and hold for a longer time and stop thinking of short term profit, bitcoin is best appreciated when view in terms long term investment

You also don't need to see that idea as a path that you should pay attention to when it doesn't quite fit the goals or steps that you have been building so far. Because usually such ideas are born more by traders who often hunt for short-term profits so that all investors don't need to see this as a reference. Now the price of Bitcoin is quite close to $100K and people who still have more Bitcoin will continue to feel happy because this is a victory before welcoming the new year (2025). So keep going with your own goals and plans before it's too late to invest gradually with your own capital capabilities and I also quite agree with the accumulation of Bitcoin if the goal is to invest more with a fairly long time target.

[Barikui1]

There are people who are making cool money in trading despite the loss after all loss is paramount when it comes to trading or investment, those who are into trading sometimes do even more better than  ordinary investor reason because, some of them anytime they made profit in their trade, they split the money and use some to invest while they are still trading, knowing how to this is very good and interesting.

Talking about the bold words in your statement, yea it's true, but have they told you their stories of how much they have lost before gaining perfection Or being profitable?
Some might not even gain perfection after all the losses, so the best thing is to think investment in Bitcoin only, than be thinking of doing what might not have head or tail.

To be honest with you here trading can't be compared with Bitcoin investment because with Bitcoin investment you will not only gain financial freedom and stability, but you can also build a generational wealth overtime, with constant building your Bitcoin portfolio through the DCA accumulating approach and holding relentlessly for a very long period of time.

But in trading reverse is the case, due to chasing of small small profit that can't change your financial status forever, you might lose a significant amount of money that might put you in deep shit, so I urge you invest in Bitcoin and hold for a long period of time, than be thinking of trading your Bitcoin for small small profit or trading fully that may be a self destruct for you or anyone that doesn't have the right skill and knowledge in mastering the craft.

[Agbamoni]

I'm not actually saying that holding is not good or the best per say but sometimes we shouldn't make our interest or what we do look like without it one can't make something good out. we don't judge something simply because we can't do it or simply because it's not working well for us. Protecting one's interest is good no doubt but it shouldn't be alarming especially when it comes to investment ( Bitcoin investment). There are people who are making cool money in trading despite the loss after all loss is paramount when it comes to trading or investment, those who are into trading sometimes do even more better than  ordinary investor reason because, some of them anytime they made profit in their trade, they split the money and use some to invest while they are still trading, knowing how to this is very good and interesting.

The fact that trading is still being discussed here is already absurd to me, do you really know how many persons here has tried trading and quit because of how dangerous it is? Alright, if you still think you can make good money out of trading or perhaps you feel it is the best approach to Bitcoin other than investment then feel free to do your thing. At the end of the day each one of us will take full responsibility of whatever actions we take. As for me, it is not better in anyway. When it comes to risk trading is worse. The rate at which people have lost money in trading is higher compared to those investing. An average investor in Bitcoin can boost of  8 0 10 percent ROI a year. But an average trader could rarely boast of anything except the lucky wins. However, it depends on what you prefer but would you want to bound your success in Bitcoin by luck?

Like i said before, i cant force my opinion on anyone here, its left to choose but what i wouldn't tolerate is you saying trading is better than investment. In fact lets leave this discussion and focus more on how Bitcoin is flying now. $98k now, just $2k and we hit our $100k milestone.

[Promocodeudo]

I'm not actually saying that holding is not good or the best per say but sometimes we shouldn't make our interest or what we do look like without it one can't make something good out. we don't judge something simply because we can't do it or simply because it's not working well for us. Protecting one's interest is good no doubt but it shouldn't be alarming especially when it comes to investment ( Bitcoin investment). There are people who are making cool money in trading despite the loss after all loss is paramount when it comes to trading or investment, those who are into trading sometimes do even more better than  ordinary investor reason because, some of them anytime they made profit in their trade, they split the money and use some to invest while they are still trading, knowing how to this is very good and interesting.

Buddy I make me to understand what you are saying,  are you trying to deviate from the main thing, because you're sounding like a trader, if your advise is for people to go into short term kind of stuff then are you not actually a trader, when you say we can just condemn somethings based on our dislike for it or based on the fact that it's not working for us that sound very funny because the last time I checked trading has not changed from being like a gambling that has high tendency of loss in it, mate If I may ask do you prefer losing the funds that would have been useful for Your DCA to be used for trading?  Am very happy you said protecting ones interest is good and I think that's why we are here, so why are you trying to make statements that are capable of jeopardizing the effort of many bitcoiners here that has been trying their possible best to make sure that investors stick to long-term investment than doing shitty stuffs.

Those people you perceive making cool money in trading according to you, have you asked them how much they have lost so far, in Bitcoin investment you can only lose your asset totally when you mistakenly or carelessly forget or loss your seed phrase, keys aside or being hacked which is even rare, the only thing that can happen is when there is price dip, your Bitcoin asset can depreciate and rises when there is market gain but for trading, once you lose, you lose totally, so tell me which ot these is better, mate as a Bitcoin investor your mind is free as anything and you're relaxed since your target is for a long-term, and also you are not pressured if you understand how to go about your investment but as a trader, emotion is attached, addiction is certain, losing is sure, i think you should retrace your steps and chose wisely.

[Frankolala]

my sincere advice to newbies will be that if you can afford both (i.e trading and investing long term) you can go about it. But if you can't afford both, it's better you just buy and forget about it for very long time.

This is a wrong advice and very misleading. How will you advice brand new investor who doesn't have any bitcoin investment to go about trading the little bitcoin that he can afford to buy, that's a dumb idea. Do you know that it is impossible to serve two masters at the same time, because you will love one more than the other. If you eventually want to do both at the same time thinking you are smart enough, there is a high chance that you will end up being a trader than a long-term investor, because when you run at loss, you will definitely take from your bitcoin investment to cover up so that you can trade again, and gradually you lose it all.

Trading is a big distraction and I will advice brand new investors who plan to be a long-term investors and hodlers not to think about trading for any reason, no matter the little profit that you see in your portfolio, because it can tempt you and make you lose focus on your regular weekly DCA approach and you will miss out the opportunity that bitcoin holds for us in the future because you will not have the size of portfolio which you can use to enjoy those benefits of bitcoin exponential value. It's good that you sacrifice now and take your time to build and grow your bitcoin portfolio gradually to a certain level with your regular weekly DCA approach and mixing it with lump sum because bitcoin has big things to offer us in future.

There are people who are making cool money in trading despite the loss after all loss is paramount when it comes to trading or investment, those who are into trading sometimes do even more better than  ordinary investor reason because, some of them anytime they made profit in their trade, they split the money and use some to invest while they are still trading, knowing how to this is very good and interesting.

I disagree with you that in the long run traders will always outsmart bitcoin long term investors when they are gambling with their bitcoin and will lose it in the long run. It's easy said than done on how you guys hype trading because I haven't seen an wealthy business man that is popularly known who made his money from trading but there are hodlers who have made millions from only buying and hodling of their bitcoin overtime. Why do you think that US government wants a bitcoin reserve because they have seen the in hodli of bitcoin and they learnt from El Salvador.

[batang_bitcoin]

~snip~

What a very good way to consider things about selling and accumulation. It's true that I have accumulated a bit in those early years of BTC but I've sold some from those points of ATHs that we've got in the past but the good thing is that I didn't oversold and still able to accumulate. And I think if ever someone has overaccumulated, it's better than someone overselling huge portions of his holdings. I'm glad that I didn't or I am just patting my back so that I won't remember mistakes that I did that can be considerably huge in valuation now knowing that the price of BTC has been up already. Well, considering accumulation and selling, someone's gonna be in a tough situation about being in both place but I think someone thinking about selling now is having a good problem compared to someone who's struggling to accumulate and didn't know whether they'll continue or not from this point because BTC keeps hitting new ATHs.

I am not sure if I completely agree with your comparison of the newbie to the one who has already accumulated a decent amount of BTC.  Surely the one who has already accumulated a decent amount of BTC, that person is going to have more options based on already having had accumulated BTC,  yet such person still could end up getting themselves in a pickle if they are overly selling and not even realizing that they are overly selling, but yeah, we cannot save anyone from themselves, since there are quite a few slippery slope matters when it comes to each person attempting to figure out his own 9 individual factors in which ONLY one of those factors deals with perceptions of BTC prices as compared with other places that money can be placed, and so it could become problematic for any newbie to be placing too much emphasis on perceptions of BTC prices, yet even a more experienced BTC accumulator could also get sucked into a similar trap based on his own overly weighting the BTC price matter instead of making sure that he really does sufficiently understand his spot in regards to the other 8 factors.

Of course, with your own 8.5 years in bitcoin (going by your forum registration date), you likely have had several opportunities to get better acquainted with your 9 individual factors (without only overly focusing on your perceptions of BTC price as compared with other possible places that you can put your value), so it is more likely that you are going to have developed some kind of a plan that is more in sync with your other 8 factors.. or at least putting those other 8 factors into your equation in terms of how to deal with various BTC price moves.

That's right, I think I am just fortunate that I was able to get in too early and did realized things early and thanks to your great reminders as well. These 9 individual factors are for real and I do understand why many can't do such the way we did it because with too many factors that have stopped or delayed them in accumulation. I've got some plans already but unlike the others, I don't have an exit plan just as how they're thinking of selling everything they own.