Buy Buy Buy or Sell Sell Sell?

[ejikeme24]

Trading is a very hectic process which still lacks assurance of success no matter the length of time spent learning the act. Trading is gambling and just like gambling, no matter your years of experience, you have not escaped the chances of loosing all your assets. Any business that experiences does not mitigate losses to a very greater percentage is not worth doing.

During the previous week's bitcoin price backlash, there were so many rumours of multiple suicide cases due to lost finances by various experienced traders and influencers. That alone is enough to let anyone to understand that bitcoin trading is like playing with fire, and if you are not willing to loss your money, then you better stay off. Another thing about the losses that comes with bitcoin trading is that you can never be very used to it that you no longer care about how much money you loss. Every single loss hits differently and the worst could happen when you least expect it.



Here is a Enough reason why I would always prefer a buy buy bitcoin approach. Bitcoin HODLing is a less stressful practice as long as you invest with your discretionary income, you wouldn't even feel too much urge to sell your bitcoin stash anytime soon. So far, since the advent of bitcoin, time has always favoured bitcoin price. This is why bitcoin enthusiasts should forget greed and follow bitcoin investment instead of gambling all day and waking up one morning to nothing when bitcoin has done nothing but only being volatile in Its own way. Traders loose their finances daily, but no matter how low the price of bitcoin goes even as low as the 2014 MT GOX incidence when bitcoin was referred to as the worst investment of the year, it still resurrected back to life. When you are ready to HODL through 4 to 10 years across bitcoin cycles, then you may never experience losses in your bitcoin career (Even though it is not 100% guaranteed).

I came across this post on x but then I was not convinced that the market crash is the reason behind this death, I just feel that there are other things that triggered him into committing suicide which the market crash can also add to the problem. since the guy is a trader so people would want to capitalize on that, though they might be saying the truth because I could imagine the feeling when one invested heavily in a coin with the hope of booming within a short period of time and all of a sudden you start experiencing a serous dip in the market, of course frustration can just kick in immediately which can also lead to depression. And when you're depressed you will be looking for what to do that can stop the depression, and this can probably make a guy to start thinking about ending his Life. So those who are still into trading need to learn thier lessons from this experience.

[Showlove01]

Trading is more like gambling with bitcoin and any investors that really get to comprehend bitcoin for what it really stands for will never thing of gambling with bitcoin all in the name of making quick profit. Trading comes with a high level of risk which in anyway cant be compared with the risk associated with long term investment. There is no investors, no matter how technical incline they may seem to be in speculating market prices can speculate correctly the exact directions of the market.

Did i hear you say trading is more like gambling? Trading and gambling are thesame thing, trading is not entirely bad for those who study the market i think this thread doesn't promote trading so we shouldn't be talking about it bitcoin isn't what we should be buying and selling without regular accumulation and hodl with this way the profit of who is trading can't be compare with what a long term hodler will benefit, it pays to be a long term investor.

If you save in Bitcoin for the long term and invest in Bitcoin according to the DCA method, you can definitely make more powerful profits. Because Bitcoin is the only one that is most compatible with the DCA method, where not every investor has enough money. So that investor cannot invest at once, it is reasonable for him to buy Bitcoin every week with some of his income. Not everyone is rich in this world, so if you invest in Bitcoin according to the DCA method, both the rich and the poor can hold Bitcoin and hold it for a long time.

There is no method or stretagy you would use to in Bitcoin investment and hold for long that you won't make a good profit so DCA method is not only the method that can give us powerful profit like you mentioned even the lump sum can or will also give powerful profit if you hold for long term. Where the problem always lies is the ability and patient to hold for long because most people are so myopic and then tend to lose hope and faith whenever the price of Dip and sometimes I wonder if they actually know about volatility of Bitcoin, volatility doesn't mean uptrend alone rather it is both uptrend and downtrend.

[Kelward]

[Edited out]

It seems to me that trading likely takes a lot of learning and practice before figuring out various ways to potentially make it work so that you are not overly losing money, and some folks are likely to be more challenged in their abilities to trade in a way that is going to help them to be prepared for price moves in either direction... .. and so I doubt that anyone even comes close to developing good trading skills and practices in a matter of days or weeks - even if they might take approaches to trading that involves starting out with smaller amounts prior to perhaps increasing the amounts that they are staking (putting at risk) in their trades.

Trading is a very hectic process which still lacks assurance of success no matter the length of time spent learning the act. Trading is gambling and just like gambling, no matter your years of experience, you have not escaped the chances of loosing all your assets. Any business that experiences does not mitigate losses to a very greater percentage is not worth doing.

Trading is not for everybody and that is an established fact because cryptocurrencies are very volatile which means that you can lose all your funds in a very short time. What every trader needs to ask themselves is whether the risks are worth it for them or not so that they can prepare themselves for anything that they will face.

The rest of us that understands the safe haven in long term Bitcoin investment will enjoy the assured profit that will come with it on the long term because Bitcoin has proven over different circles that it has the potentials to always reach new ATH. We will focus on continuous accumulation as long as we have functional discretionary funds. Try to double your hustles so that you will not have financial difficulties to deter you from refilling your discretionary funds inorder to be buying without stopping for 8 to 10 years and beyond.

[Cgrexp]

There is no method or stretagy you would use to in Bitcoin investment and hold for long that you won't make a good profit so DCA method is not only the method that can give us powerful profit like you mentioned even the lump sum can or will also give powerful profit if you hold for long term. Where the problem always lies is the ability and patient to hold for long because most people are so myopic and then tend to lose hope and faith whenever the price of Dip and sometimes I wonder if they actually know about volatility of Bitcoin, volatility doesn't mean uptrend alone rather it is both uptrend and downtrend.

You are right when it comes to long-term investment, the safest strategy is DCA. It protects our investment from market fluctuations. As a result of long-term investment, we can make regular financial investments. However, patience is needed for long-term investment. There are many who cannot maintain patience. If there is a slight market fluctuation, they get stressed and withdraw from investment.If we have a long-term investment plan, we can't worry about price fluctuations and have to be patient with market volatility. So if we can be mentally prepared for long-term investment, be patient and have a realistic perspective, then there is a possibility of making a profit in investment.

[Skydrill]

that is why investors should practice trading no matter how they think they can be able to handle the two, trading might make investors to derail from the plan they had earlier, this may lead to serious regrets.

I agree with you, here.  Trading is a slippery slope that can be difficult to control if a person is not able to put limitations and boundaries upon it, and even have ways to segregate and/or limit their losses.  At the same time, some  guys are able to learn from practice, even though they are likely to be small in numbers - even though several traders likely end up devolve into thinking that they are in the small group of traders who are profitable and able to control/limit their trading, so there are likely a good number of traders who consider themselves to be way more talented than they are.

For trading to be a success it requires a lot of analysis and calculations, definitely not something everyone can do since doing all that will take alot of time out of people's hands plus they can't even be sure of their analysis, maybe a really good trader will be able to properly analyse the market and know when to enter and when to keep away from it which will be a great advantage to him but not everyone has access to this kind of information, most supposed trading barely understand how the trading market works, they got involved in trading because they saw or heard that someone else made quite a reasonable amount of profit from it and now they want a share of that profit, and sometimes most of them actually try to learn and understand trading principles and sometimes they are actually successful but this can only be said about a very small percentage probably less than 10% and the other over 90% don't quite grasp onto how trading works and end of going into it shortsighted which ultimately leads to them losing out alot.

Sometimes I really wonder what would convince a person to trade bitcoin, it's not a very smart decision and it's not even profitable and looking for something profitable is what pushes people into trading so why trade when you would most likely not get any profit out of it.

The truth is some people make decisions blindly, or should I say they're just being too hasty to make profit. Because I also keep wondering why a guy will chose to go into trading that you can't take your eyes off the Market for some days, this makes we think that trading is even more stressful than most of this monthly pay jobs because it requires a lot of attention. Imagine something that requires alot of one's attention is what most people are still prioritizing over Investment that you can only showed up once is time to make your purchase then after making your purchase  you just go offline, though everyone have the right to decide what is best for them those who have decided to trade with bitcoin instead of focusing on the long term investment knows Best.

It's not that trading is not good, but the thing is that you have to know that trading need serious training and it's training will take you a couple of days before you understand it better, why some traders record a lot of losses, is due to they are not being trained well before they go into trading, some people is making turns of profit every day in trading, why they make make profit is because they acquired the skill of trading very well, why people that lose that much in trading are people who doesn't have basic knowledge of trading and join

If someone don't have the ideas of trading, the person shouldn't bother to trade, it's better for the person to buy Bitcoin and hold, that will be more safer than trading for something you know nothing about, buying Bitcoin and hold will is preferable than trading if you are novice in both.

It seems to me that trading likely takes a lot of learning and practice before figuring out various ways to potentially make it work so that you are not overly losing money, and some folks are likely to be more challenged in their abilities to trade in a way that is going to help them to be prepared for price moves in either direction... .. and so I doubt that anyone even comes close to developing good trading skills and practices in a matter of days or weeks - even if they might take approaches to trading that involves starting out with smaller amounts prior to perhaps increasing the amounts that they are staking (putting at risk) in their trades.

It takes way too many learning and practice and even with this there is still very little guarantee of success and the very number of traders who actually make profit from it barely trade with bitcoin, you will usually see them trading with altcoins that have higher volatility than bitcoin, of course higher volatility will increase the chances of a loss but it also increases the chances of turning a profit and some good traders are able to tell when the chances of making a profit are higher then the chances of losing so they take advantage of this opportunities though this probably doesn't always work out all the time, bitcoin trading has shown to be a relatively unsuccessful endeavour which is why smart traders tend to avoid it, but alot of people think that the higher the value of the asset the higher the chances of making profit out of it through trading and with this mentality they decide to trade bitcoin and most of the time the lose but still they keep doing it almost like there is a drive behind them, I'm not really sure.
Bitcoin investment on the other hand offers far less mental stress and it's relatively safer to go into and that's why bitcoin investors are more likely to make profit than bitcoin traders.

probably all those who later find it difficult in succeeding in the art of trading perhaps haven't gained the necessary skill required to trade adequately and as a result they may feel discouraged thinking trading isn't as not for them, but with the right information I think anyone can make the most out of trading as long as he or she is ready to spend time and learn what it takes to trade efficiently.

[Finebone]

probably all those who later find it difficult in succeeding in the art of trading perhaps haven't gained the necessary skill required to trade adequately and as a result they may feel discouraged thinking trading isn't as not for them, but with the right information I think anyone can make the most out of trading as long as he or she is ready to spend time and learn what it takes to trade efficiently.

Trading is not for everyone, but investing is for everyone if you want to be financially free. Those that has been trading for years hardly have a good life because it's the most hard way to make money, but just that most traders especially newbies have that mindset of getting rich quick, through it, which is the primary reason they are always on the losing end.

Additionally, in trading knowledge alone on technical and fundamental analysis is not enough for you to be successful while trading, you need to have knowledge on how to manage your risk, how to control your emotions, when to stay off the market and when to be patient if you must be successful, but with Bitcoin investment all you just have to do is to buy with your discretionary income and hold without much stress, unlike trading that is more stressful and less rewarding on the longer run when compared to Bitcoin investment.

[taibodi]

that is why investors should practice trading no matter how they think they can be able to handle the two, trading might make investors to derail from the plan they had earlier, this may lead to serious regrets.

I agree with you, here.  Trading is a slippery slope that can be difficult to control if a person is not able to put limitations and boundaries upon it, and even have ways to segregate and/or limit their losses.  At the same time, some  guys are able to learn from practice, even though they are likely to be small in numbers - even though several traders likely end up devolve into thinking that they are in the small group of traders who are profitable and able to control/limit their trading, so there are likely a good number of traders who consider themselves to be way more talented than they are.

For trading to be a success it requires a lot of analysis and calculations, definitely not something everyone can do since doing all that will take alot of time out of people's hands plus they can't even be sure of their analysis, maybe a really good trader will be able to properly analyse the market and know when to enter and when to keep away from it which will be a great advantage to him but not everyone has access to this kind of information, most supposed trading barely understand how the trading market works, they got involved in trading because they saw or heard that someone else made quite a reasonable amount of profit from it and now they want a share of that profit, and sometimes most of them actually try to learn and understand trading principles and sometimes they are actually successful but this can only be said about a very small percentage probably less than 10% and the other over 90% don't quite grasp onto how trading works and end of going into it shortsighted which ultimately leads to them losing out alot.

Sometimes I really wonder what would convince a person to trade bitcoin, it's not a very smart decision and it's not even profitable and looking for something profitable is what pushes people into trading so why trade when you would most likely not get any profit out of it.

The truth is some people make decisions blindly, or should I say they're just being too hasty to make profit. Because I also keep wondering why a guy will chose to go into trading that you can't take your eyes off the Market for some days, this makes we think that trading is even more stressful than most of this monthly pay jobs because it requires a lot of attention. Imagine something that requires alot of one's attention is what most people are still prioritizing over Investment that you can only showed up once is time to make your purchase then after making your purchase  you just go offline, though everyone have the right to decide what is best for them those who have decided to trade with bitcoin instead of focusing on the long term investment knows Best.

It's not that trading is not good, but the thing is that you have to know that trading need serious training and it's training will take you a couple of days before you understand it better, why some traders record a lot of losses, is due to they are not being trained well before they go into trading, some people is making turns of profit every day in trading, why they make make profit is because they acquired the skill of trading very well, why people that lose that much in trading are people who doesn't have basic knowledge of trading and join

If someone don't have the ideas of trading, the person shouldn't bother to trade, it's better for the person to buy Bitcoin and hold, that will be more safer than trading for something you know nothing about, buying Bitcoin and hold will is preferable than trading if you are novice in both.

It seems to me that trading likely takes a lot of learning and practice before figuring out various ways to potentially make it work so that you are not overly losing money, and some folks are likely to be more challenged in their abilities to trade in a way that is going to help them to be prepared for price moves in either direction... .. and so I doubt that anyone even comes close to developing good trading skills and practices in a matter of days or weeks - even if they might take approaches to trading that involves starting out with smaller amounts prior to perhaps increasing the amounts that they are staking (putting at risk) in their trades.

It takes way too many learning and practice and even with this there is still very little guarantee of success and the very number of traders who actually make profit from it barely trade with bitcoin, you will usually see them trading with altcoins that have higher volatility than bitcoin, of course higher volatility will increase the chances of a loss but it also increases the chances of turning a profit and some good traders are able to tell when the chances of making a profit are higher then the chances of losing so they take advantage of this opportunities though this probably doesn't always work out all the time, bitcoin trading has shown to be a relatively unsuccessful endeavour which is why smart traders tend to avoid it, but alot of people think that the higher the value of the asset the higher the chances of making profit out of it through trading and with this mentality they decide to trade bitcoin and most of the time the lose but still they keep doing it almost like there is a drive behind them, I'm not really sure.
Bitcoin investment on the other hand offers far less mental stress and it's relatively safer to go into and that's why bitcoin investors are more likely to make profit than bitcoin traders.

I am new, please correct me if I am wrong. I think that to be successful in trading, no matter how much analysis and calculation you do, even if you have temporary success, you still have to face losses most of the time. I think trading is like hunting in the dark, if you shoot in the dark, the chances of loss are high. No matter how much you analyze and practice in trading, I think that a very good result is uncertain. There is a high chance of getting stuck on the way to moving forward quickly in a short time. So I think it is better to have a long-term plan than trading.

[JayJuanGee]

that is why investors should practice trading no matter how they think they can be able to handle the two, trading might make investors to derail from the plan they had earlier, this may lead to serious regrets.

I agree with you, here.  Trading is a slippery slope that can be difficult to control if a person is not able to put limitations and boundaries upon it, and even have ways to segregate and/or limit their losses.  At the same time, some  guys are able to learn from practice, even though they are likely to be small in numbers - even though several traders likely end up devolve into thinking that they are in the small group of traders who are profitable and able to control/limit their trading, so there are likely a good number of traders who consider themselves to be way more talented than they are.

For trading to be a success it requires a lot of analysis and calculations, definitely not something everyone can do since doing all that will take alot of time out of people's hands plus they can't even be sure of their analysis, maybe a really good trader will be able to properly analyse the market and know when to enter and when to keep away from it which will be a great advantage to him but not everyone has access to this kind of information, most supposed trading barely understand how the trading market works, they got involved in trading because they saw or heard that someone else made quite a reasonable amount of profit from it and now they want a share of that profit, and sometimes most of them actually try to learn and understand trading principles and sometimes they are actually successful but this can only be said about a very small percentage probably less than 10% and the other over 90% don't quite grasp onto how trading works and end of going into it shortsighted which ultimately leads to them losing out alot.

Of course, traders want to be able to win on the way up and on the way down, and sometimes they will use leverage and margin in order to shore up various bets that they make.

Historically, part of the difficulty in bitcoin is that it tends to trend up, and so traders should attempt to account for such trend, which such upward trend also justifies not trading, since the price has ultimately gone up.. at least historically.

Sure there are trades in which traders are making money, and they might even make money more often than they don't, yet they can also end up with one trade that ends up wiping out all of their previous gains.. so then they spend a bunch of time building up a trading portfolio, then their trade gets knocked back to zero or even below their starting point.. which sometimes might contribute towards their taking more risks to try to make it up and/or failing to be "in bitcoin" when the BTC price does some kind of a stair-step upward movement that does not end up correcting back to previous price levels...

Sometimes I really wonder what would convince a person to trade bitcoin, it's not a very smart decision and it's not even profitable and looking for something profitable is what pushes people into trading so why trade when you would most likely not get any profit out of it.

The truth is some people make decisions blindly, or should I say they're just being too hasty to make profit. Because I also keep wondering why a guy will chose to go into trading that you can't take your eyes off the Market for some days, this makes we think that trading is even more stressful than most of this monthly pay jobs because it requires a lot of attention. Imagine something that requires alot of one's attention is what most people are still prioritizing over Investment that you can only showed up once is time to make your purchase then after making your purchase  you just go offline, though everyone have the right to decide what is best for them those who have decided to trade with bitcoin instead of focusing on the long term investment knows Best.

It's not that trading is not good, but the thing is that you have to know that trading need serious training and it's training will take you a couple of days before you understand it better, why some traders record a lot of losses, is due to they are not being trained well before they go into trading, some people is making turns of profit every day in trading, why they make make profit is because they acquired the skill of trading very well, why people that lose that much in trading are people who doesn't have basic knowledge of trading and join

If someone don't have the ideas of trading, the person shouldn't bother to trade, it's better for the person to buy Bitcoin and hold, that will be more safer than trading for something you know nothing about, buying Bitcoin and hold will is preferable than trading if you are novice in both.

It seems to me that trading likely takes a lot of learning and practice before figuring out various ways to potentially make it work so that you are not overly losing money, and some folks are likely to be more challenged in their abilities to trade in a way that is going to help them to be prepared for price moves in either direction... .. and so I doubt that anyone even comes close to developing good trading skills and practices in a matter of days or weeks - even if they might take approaches to trading that involves starting out with smaller amounts prior to perhaps increasing the amounts that they are staking (putting at risk) in their trades.

It takes way too many learning and practice and even with this there is still very little guarantee of success and the very number of traders who actually make profit from it barely trade with bitcoin, you will usually see them trading with altcoins that have higher volatility than bitcoin, of course higher volatility will increase the chances of a loss but it also increases the chances of turning a profit and some good traders are able to tell when the chances of making a profit are higher then the chances of losing so they take advantage of this opportunities though this probably doesn't always work out all the time, bitcoin trading has shown to be a relatively unsuccessful endeavour which is why smart traders tend to avoid it, but alot of people think that the higher the value of the asset the higher the chances of making profit out of it through trading and with this mentality they decide to trade bitcoin and most of the time the lose but still they keep doing it almost like there is a drive behind them, I'm not really sure.
Bitcoin investment on the other hand offers far less mental stress and it's relatively safer to go into and that's why bitcoin investors are more likely to make profit than bitcoin traders.

It hardly makes any sense since bitcoin has been and likely will continue to be amongst the best of investments, yet guys want to take chances to try to make more from it, when it already has high likelihood (not guaranteed) of success by just ongoingly building it up over time... so they take an asset with a high likelihood for success and they try to get even more profits out of it.. which ends up putting their investment at risk.. and yeah, sometimes the ups and downs seem to be so obvious, but then the BTC price does not end up moving in accordance with what had seemed to have had been so obvious.

There also may well be guys who made a lot of profits over the past couple of cycles since they buy bitcoin and then shave off their profits along the way, but then they may well would have had been better off to just put that money into bitcoin and just sit on that money since it can be difficult to beat 10x, 100x and even 1,000x returns that came through mere BTC price appreciation over the past 10-ish years (of course, depending on when a person got in and how much he might have been able to put in at various earlier bitcoin price points).  Even a guy who might have had started investing $100 per week in bitcoin in late 2015 (or even the beginning of 2016) at the end of that particular down period, he may well have had invested right around $50k over the past 10 years, yet at the same time ending up with more than 15 bitcoin right now, so it is very difficult to proclaim that trading in and out of bitcoin during that period of time could have had improved such results... sure it is possible to have had beat a buy and hold strategy, but not seeming to be very likely to have had been able to accomplish such better performance as compared with a buy and hold strategy.

Bitcoin is not likely to have as high of an upside in the next 10 years, even though it is likely to remain a decently good place to invest and difficult to justify trading it rather than just putting value into it.

Trading is more like gambling with bitcoin and any investors that really get to comprehend bitcoin for what it really stands for will never thing of gambling with bitcoin all in the name of making quick profit. Trading comes with a high level of risk which in anyway cant be compared with the risk associated with long term investment. There is no investors, no matter how technical incline they may seem to be in speculating market prices can speculate correctly the exact directions of the market.

Did i hear you say trading is more like gambling? Trading and gambling are thesame thing, trading is not entirely bad for those who study the market i think this thread doesn't promote trading so we shouldn't be talking about it bitcoin isn't what we should be buying and selling without regular accumulation and hodl with this way the profit of who is trading can't be compare with what a long term hodler will benefit, it pays to be a long term investor.

If you save in Bitcoin for the long term and invest in Bitcoin according to the DCA method, you can definitely make more powerful profits. Because Bitcoin is the only one that is most compatible with the DCA method, where not every investor has enough money. So that investor cannot invest at once, it is reasonable for him to buy Bitcoin every week with some of his income. Not everyone is rich in this world, so if you invest in Bitcoin according to the DCA method, both the rich and the poor can hold Bitcoin and hold it for a long time.

Bitcoin doors is open to both the rich and the poor to come in and invest. It doesn't discriminate instead it welcome everyone to invest  as long as they can figure out a Discretional income .  Exactly, Bitcoin can be used as a store to keep our wealth or funds in continuous value as long as we can continue to Hold and not sell. As bitcoin appreciates in value over time,our funds invested also increases along with it. Both the rich and the poor can equally invest in Bitcoin but the poor man might easily be tempted to tamper with his Bitcoin holding before even reaching his over accumulation stage..

I appreciate your thoughtful perspective. You're right that Bitcoin's accessibility is genuinely democratic in that sense there's no minimum investment requirement. Someone can start with whatever spare cash they have, even small amounts. Your point about discretionary income is important though. The idea that both rich and poor can invest equally is true in theory but there's a real friction point in practice. A poor person investing their limited discretionary income faces genuine pressure that a wealthy person doesn't. When unexpected expenses hit medical bills, car repairs, job loss that discretionary income gets needed elsewhere. It's not weakness; it's survival.

It's not that poor people lack discipline or understanding. It's that they have less margin for error. It's not about always the temptation. A rich person can hold through downturns because they have other resources. A struggling person might watch their Bitcoin drop 30% and might think he needed that money for rent next monthand they're not wrong. The real wealth building with Bitcoin does seem to come from that long-term holding and accumulation phase like you mentioned. But the people who most need wealth building are often the least able to weather the volatility. That's a genuine asymmetry.

Your comparison of the poor person to the rich person seems to outline why it remains important for poor people to build within their means so that they are not tempted to tap into their bitcoin investment at a time in which it would be better to keep the value in bitcoin.  Poor people may well ongoingly need the money, and if they are not able to figure out ways to stock the money away without touching it and without putting systems in place in order to not tap into their bitcoin, then they might not have enough money to be able to invest into bitcoin.. since they would end up trading and/or gambling if they cannot put systems and practices in place to create some level of confidence that they are not going to be tapping into their bitcoin stash in less than 4-10 years or longer.

As we also discussed poor people might have limitations in which they are able to increase their discretionary income by increasing their income and/or by cutting their expenses... there might ONLY be so much that they are ready, willing and able to do in the direction of increasing their discretionary income.. which is what is needed to be able to invest into bitcoin - and not and up trading and/or gambling with money that they actually need for either present expenses or some expenses into the future that might not have had yet been identified... sometimes even a small level of emergency funds (or back up funds) could save them in regards to preparing for various unidentified future expenses.

[edited out]

probably all those who later find it difficult in succeeding in the art of trading perhaps haven't gained the necessary skill required to trade adequately and as a result they may feel discouraged thinking trading isn't as not for them, but with the right information I think anyone can make the most out of trading as long as he or she is ready to spend time and learn what it takes to trade efficiently.

Are you full of shit, Skydrill?  

You really think that anyone can learn sufficient trading skills in order to turn it from being a loser (for 95% of those who try it) into being successful for a majority?

You seem to be living in a fantasy, and sure there are some profitable traders, and they might even have long streaks of success (luck)..

For an overwhelming majority of people it is likely better to figure out ways to earn money in other ways, and sure if they want to practice trading that might be o.k. to see if they can make money from it, even though many times, even folks who might have some outside income they are putting into trading, they still might end up losing more than they win and not really making any progress, even if they might be able to figure out some profitable tactics and strategies and hedges to bet on both the ups and the downs.

Another problem that traders tend to have that devolves into a kind of gambling is an ever increasing need for more and  more capital, so even if they might have had found some successful ways of utilizing their capital, they may well end up winning and having some successful trades that may well cause them to put more money into future trades, and so one or two losses of the future trades might end up costing them much more than their various gains in their earlier trades.. and even if we might be able to identify some traders who have been successful and/or lucky, they might not be able to pass those skills on to others  or make some of their experiences replicable.. and they might not even themselves be able to replicate their earlier success.

So, surely it is not obvious that anyone or everyone is able to learn such trading skills that will end up putting them into a better position than folks who are able to figure out investing skills and the various cashflow management skills and practices around building up a bitcoin investment.. that in and of itself might take years and years to build up both the bitcoin investment and to strengthen the cashflow management systems/practices.

probably all those who later find it difficult in succeeding in the art of trading perhaps haven't gained the necessary skill required to trade adequately and as a result they may feel discouraged thinking trading isn't as not for them, but with the right information I think anyone can make the most out of trading as long as he or she is ready to spend time and learn what it takes to trade efficiently.

Trading is not for everyone, but investing is for everyone if you want to be financially free. Those that has been trading for years hardly have a good life because it's the most hard way to make money, but just that most traders especially newbies have that mindset of getting rich quick, through it, which is the primary reason they are always on the losing end.

Additionally, in trading knowledge alone on technical and fundamental analysis is not enough for you to be successful while trading, you need to have knowledge on how to manage your risk, how to control your emotions, when to stay off the market and when to be patient if you must be successful, but with Bitcoin investment all you just have to do is to buy with your discretionary income and hold without much stress, unlike trading that is more stressful and less rewarding on the longer run when compared to Bitcoin investment.

Even investing into bitcoin is not necessarily without stress, and it is not guaranteed, either.

Yet, sure, almost anyone can figure out some ways to balance their amount invested and to figure out their level of aggressiveness within the level of their discretionary income so that they can also maintain and/or strengthen their cashflow management systems and/or practices that would allow them to increase the level of their bitcoin investment aggressiveness if they were to choose to do so.  There can also be ways to gamify bitcoin investment to keep track of progress and perhaps even to figure out ways to increase discretionary income by increasing income and/or by cutting expenses, which can become interesting to monitor such progress - even though again the progress is not guaranteed, especially in the short term, and frequently it can take a long time to both build up a bitcoin investment stash and also to strengthen ones cashflow management systems/practices.

[edited out]

I am new, please correct me if I am wrong. I think that to be successful in trading, no matter how much analysis and calculation you do, even if you have temporary success, you still have to face losses most of the time. I think trading is like hunting in the dark, if you shoot in the dark, the chances of loss are high. No matter how much you analyze and practice in trading, I think that a very good result is uncertain. There is a high chance of getting stuck on the way to moving forward quickly in a short time. So I think it is better to have a long-term plan than trading.

It is true that so many folks (including newbies) can get attracted into trading, and they might even start out having some successful trades that might lure them into doing more trades, and surely some guys might have skills and/or luck, yet it still seems that sooner or later they are going to end up taking too many chances and/or get caught on the wrong side of some trades that might cause them to lose a lot of their money, including both their earlier gainz and their principle..

It can be quite difficult to advise folks away from such temptations, since there also can be some learning that is attracting them to want to trade and even sometimes getting involved in shitcoins.

Frequently, I try to suggest that no more than 10% of the size of the bitcoin investment (without cheating) should be allowed to be included to trade and/or to get involved in shitcoins, yet still part of the problem is that guys might start out with such limits but then get sucked into needing more and more and more capital.. so it is difficult to stop them from putting more and more into trades and shitcoins , even if they might have had started out willing to put limits on themselves (such as no more than 10% of their time, energies and value into trading and/or shitcoins).

I know that there are some systems that allow practicing trading and learning how to do it for free and without risking any value.  I personally don't agree with those kinds of learning systems, even though I agree that anyone should be able to place limitations on themselves and to stick with such limitations - even though some folks are more challenged in their own abilities to place limits on themselves in some areas (and I am not claiming to be any exception since I have some bad habits too), and so some folks could save themselves from getting reckt by placing limits on themselves and sticking with such limits until they might advance to a point that they have learned enough to know that they can increase their limits without screwing things up. 

Some folks are better off to completely just say no to the whole idea of shitcoins and/or trading, and perhaps if they focus on bitcoin for several years and build up their bitcoin holdings for several years, then maybe after that passage of time, they might be able to revisit the extent to which they might want to get involved in shitcoins and/or trading, and sometimes merely sticking with bitcoin will teach a person that it is not worth it to play around with either shitcoins and/or trading.

[Bigjoe33]

 Both the rich and the poor can equally invest in Bitcoin but the poor man might easily be tempted to tamper with his Bitcoin holding before even reaching his over accumulation stage..

Why limit your temptation of tampering with your bitcoin assets to only the poor? Do you mean that the rich are not tempted to also tamper with there holdings? I feel both the rich and the poor is also very much vulnerable to tampering with there Bitcoin holdings, yea, and not only limited to the poor.

Here is the thing. Your ability to Hodl your Bitcoin assets is dependent on several factors, amongst which could be your level of Discipline and determination to hold on. This is because at one point or the other, investors might face with difficult situations and might want to pull out there assets, but the disciplined mind knows it's plan and would bear and hold of all things been equal. So Discipline plays a major role, either as a rich or poor investor.

Secondly, another factor that determines your Holding ability is your ability to do a proper allocation of funds from your discretionary income. An investor who fails to do proper allocation of funds, either not properly settling basic needs before using the discretionary to invest in Bitcoin will be choked up when demand arise and might be forced to tamper with his assets wether he be rich or poor. Even after proper settling of basic needs, one might not necessarily allocat all discretionary to investment, hence overlooking or abandoning few personal treat and good life once in a while. Though it's personal and based on priority, but this might have a bit affect too since we can't intentionally or necessarily deny ourselves of a little self treat all in the name of investment.

Your ability to also build up your emergency funds and other back up funds also will play a big role in your ability either to Hodl for long or get tampered to seek off too quickly.  We all know what emergency funds stands for and how important it is to the investor and his Holdings, as it serves as a rock and base to Holding your assets for a long term. Wether rich or poor, an investor who ignores to slowly build an emergency funds from his discretionary income alongside his accumulation periods will be surely tempted to tamper with his assets because life must surely throw wehtgs are you.

So wether poor or not, rich or very rich, an investor who fails to put things in order while accumulating Bitcoin will be tempted to tamper with his Bitcoin assets at any point time, and may sell off too soon.

I am new, please correct me if I am wrong. I think that to be successful in trading, no matter how much analysis and calculation you do, even if you have temporary success, you still have to face losses most of the time. I think trading is like hunting in the dark, if you shoot in the dark, the chances of loss are high. No matter how much you analyze and practice in trading, I think that a very good result is uncertain. There is a high chance of getting stuck on the way to moving forward quickly in a short time. So I think it is better to have a long-term plan than trading.

Firstly, what we are discussing is bitcoin and strictly investment, not just investment but long term investment, and not this trading stuff you mentioned. Here, we encourage bitcoin investment, accumulating with your discretionary with a long term plan.

But to answer your question, trading is highly risky and to an extent, one might not escape losses sometimes despite your study and analysis. Because of its high risk and market nature, we encourage bitcoin investment which provides future profit if we can buy and Hodl for long term, let's say 4-10 years and or more. Crypto trading is highly not advisable, though everyone has a right to what he wants to do.

[Derekfunds]

that is why investors should practice trading no matter how they think they can be able to handle the two, trading might make investors to derail from the plan they had earlier, this may lead to serious regrets.

I agree with you, here.  Trading is a slippery slope that can be difficult to control if a person is not able to put limitations and boundaries upon it, and even have ways to segregate and/or limit their losses.  At the same time, some  guys are able to learn from practice, even though they are likely to be small in numbers - even though several traders likely end up devolve into thinking that they are in the small group of traders who are profitable and able to control/limit their trading, so there are likely a good number of traders who consider themselves to be way more talented than they are.

For trading to be a success it requires a lot of analysis and calculations, definitely not something everyone can do since doing all that will take alot of time out of people's hands plus they can't even be sure of their analysis, maybe a really good trader will be able to properly analyse the market and know when to enter and when to keep away from it which will be a great advantage to him but not everyone has access to this kind of information, most supposed trading barely understand how the trading market works, they got involved in trading because they saw or heard that someone else made quite a reasonable amount of profit from it and now they want a share of that profit, and sometimes most of them actually try to learn and understand trading principles and sometimes they are actually successful but this can only be said about a very small percentage probably less than 10% and the other over 90% don't quite grasp onto how trading works and end of going into it shortsighted which ultimately leads to them losing out alot.

Sometimes I really wonder what would convince a person to trade bitcoin, it's not a very smart decision and it's not even profitable and looking for something profitable is what pushes people into trading so why trade when you would most likely not get any profit out of it.

The truth is some people make decisions blindly, or should I say they're just being too hasty to make profit. Because I also keep wondering why a guy will chose to go into trading that you can't take your eyes off the Market for some days, this makes we think that trading is even more stressful than most of this monthly pay jobs because it requires a lot of attention. Imagine something that requires alot of one's attention is what most people are still prioritizing over Investment that you can only showed up once is time to make your purchase then after making your purchase  you just go offline, though everyone have the right to decide what is best for them those who have decided to trade with bitcoin instead of focusing on the long term investment knows Best.

It's not that trading is not good, but the thing is that you have to know that trading need serious training and it's training will take you a couple of days before you understand it better, why some traders record a lot of losses, is due to they are not being trained well before they go into trading, some people is making turns of profit every day in trading, why they make make profit is because they acquired the skill of trading very well, why people that lose that much in trading are people who doesn't have basic knowledge of trading and join

If someone don't have the ideas of trading, the person shouldn't bother to trade, it's better for the person to buy Bitcoin and hold, that will be more safer than trading for something you know nothing about, buying Bitcoin and hold will is preferable than trading if you are novice in both.

It seems to me that trading likely takes a lot of learning and practice before figuring out various ways to potentially make it work so that you are not overly losing money, and some folks are likely to be more challenged in their abilities to trade in a way that is going to help them to be prepared for price moves in either direction... .. and so I doubt that anyone even comes close to developing good trading skills and practices in a matter of days or weeks - even if they might take approaches to trading that involves starting out with smaller amounts prior to perhaps increasing the amounts that they are staking (putting at risk) in their trades.

It takes way too many learning and practice and even with this there is still very little guarantee of success and the very number of traders who actually make profit from it barely trade with bitcoin, you will usually see them trading with altcoins that have higher volatility than bitcoin, of course higher volatility will increase the chances of a loss but it also increases the chances of turning a profit and some good traders are able to tell when the chances of making a profit are higher then the chances of losing so they take advantage of this opportunities though this probably doesn't always work out all the time, bitcoin trading has shown to be a relatively unsuccessful endeavour which is why smart traders tend to avoid it, but alot of people think that the higher the value of the asset the higher the chances of making profit out of it through trading and with this mentality they decide to trade bitcoin and most of the time the lose but still they keep doing it almost like there is a drive behind them, I'm not really sure.
Bitcoin investment on the other hand offers far less mental stress and it's relatively safer to go into and that's why bitcoin investors are more likely to make profit than bitcoin traders.

probably all those who later find it difficult in succeeding in the art of trading perhaps haven't gained the necessary skill required to trade adequately and as a result they may feel discouraged thinking trading isn't as not for them, but with the right information I think anyone can make the most out of trading as long as he or she is ready to spend time and learn what it takes to trade efficiently.

I disagree with you, even some people that do not succeed in trading has a little idea of what trading is about or will I say they have basic knowledge of trading but the truth is there is no knowledge that is sufficient or enough when it comes to trading because you can not outsmart the market and neither can you get it all right. Even people who call themselves expertise do make significant loss at times that is to say that trading is very risky and it is something I can not advise someone to go into even my enemy because the loss can be massive most times. There's nothing like right information in trading all they do is guess and predict, no information is guarantee there so lets forget about this and talk about Bitcoin investment.

[icebar]

I disagree with you, even some people that do not succeed in trading has a little idea of what trading is about or will I say they have basic knowledge of trading but the truth is there is no knowledge that is sufficient or enough when it comes to trading because you can not outsmart the market and neither can you get it all right. Even people who call themselves expertise do make significant loss at times that is to say that trading is very risky and it is something I can not advise someone to go into even my enemy because the loss can be massive most times.

There is no chance of guaranteed profit from trading, even in the long run I have not seen anyone change economic condition from trading, rather I have seen that those who profited after a few trades in the beginning have become confident in trading later. But the real truth is that they regret it after a long time. They think that if they had invested in Bitcoin, they would not have faced such a big loss. Just as there is no guarantee of guaranteed profit from trading, many do not have sufficient knowledge either. Some trade with little knowledge and lose their money. But those who invest in Bitcoin for the long term there is ha high possibility of making profit.

[Scarlett_23]

It's not that trading is not good, but the thing is that you have to know that trading need serious training and it's training will take you a couple of days before you understand it better, why some traders record a lot of losses, is due to they are not being trained well before they go into trading, some people is making turns of profit every day in trading, why they make make profit is because they acquired the skill of trading very well, why people that lose that much in trading are people who doesn't have basic knowledge of trading and join

Why are you saying trading is good? Are you trying to confuse? The new investors here will be confused if you give more importance to trading than investing in Bitcoin. Those who trade basically risk losing all their money, so the Bitcoin DCA method is the best and the money will be deposited and can be kept for a long time.

Trading is good for people that choose to trade, why investment is more convenient and comfortable, it depends on the decision of person that wants to invest or person that wants to trade,  I know that what we discuss here is about investment and I'm not going contrary to it, but I put it to you that anyone can choose what it finds better to do, some people investment don't favour them but skillful work like trading favours them, that is what I want you to understand.

Trading isn't good at all. For the fact that you're making little money out of it doesn't qualify it to be a good strategy of making profits in Bitcoin. Let me tell you, buying Bitcoin and later sell it for quick profits isn't the right strategy to accumulate Bitcoin,so I totally disagree with you. Trading isn't a skill & it's quite similar to gambling that no matter your years of experiences,you may likely lose all your funds in an attempt to predict/outsmart the market. Anyone that chose to trade his Bitcoin even after knowing the risks involved is absolutely a greedy person in nature. Trading your Bitcoin for quick profits is bad,the right approach to invest in Bitcoin is to Buy & Hodl for the long term.

Yeah that is it, trading might look smart from the outside, but in reality, it is way too risky and unpredictable..  No matter how good you thinks you are, one bad move can wipe everything out…. It is true most traders are just trying to outsmart the market, but in the end, the market will win..

Buying and holding Bitcoin long term makes way more sense because it removes all that unnecessary stress and emotions..  Instead of trying to make quick profits, you just let time do the work…. That is how real wealth in Bitcoin is built, patience, not constant buying and selling..

In the field of trading and investment, although people use these two strategies, there is a huge difference between them. Trading is high-risk and requires deep attention to market analysis in trading. If the analysis is wrong for some reason, the fund may be at risk. That is, the chance of winning in trading is fifty-fifty like gambling. Those who cannot suppress excessive greed, that is, those who have thoughts of getting rich in a short time, try to win in risky training. In this case, we should definitely remember that success in life is never a shortcut. So, it is much better to learn by investing rather than thinking of investors and traders being the same. That is why investing in Bitcoin in the long term is very important. You can also learn a lot by investing here.

[I_Anime]

I disagree with you, even some people that do not succeed in trading has a little idea of what trading is about or will I say they have basic knowledge of trading but the truth is there is no knowledge that is sufficient or enough when it comes to trading because you can not outsmart the market and neither can you get it all right. Even people who call themselves expertise do make significant loss at times that is to say that trading is very risky and it is something I can not advise someone to go into even my enemy because the loss can be massive most times.

There is no chance of guaranteed profit from trading, even in the long run I have not seen anyone change economic condition from trading, rather I have seen that those who profited after a few trades in the beginning have become confident in trading later. But the real truth is that they regret it after a long time. They think that if they had invested in Bitcoin, they would not have faced such a big loss. Just as there is no guarantee of guaranteed profit from trading, many do not have sufficient knowledge either. Some trade with little knowledge and lose their money. But those who invest in Bitcoin for the long term there is ha high possibility of making profit.

Is simple trading not for everyone doesn't mean that there ain't folk who are literally making a living out of it , but when come to holding any one can , all you need is proper planning and be well disciplined.

And beside this board not for trading is all about bitcoin investment if you want to talk about trading we have board for that , we should focus on the main purpose of this thread which is buying bitcoin till now I still find the name of this thread quite funny , but aslong there is buy there will always be sell but all about right timing , like we usually say if you haven't gotten enough accumulation yet withdrawing won't be smart .

[Grace333]

probably all those who later find it difficult in succeeding in the art of trading perhaps haven't gained the necessary skill required to trade adequately and as a result they may feel discouraged thinking trading isn't as not for them, but with the right information I think anyone can make the most out of trading as long as he or she is ready to spend time and learn what it takes to trade efficiently.

Trading is not for everyone, but investing is for everyone if you want to be financially free. Those that has been trading for years hardly have a good life because it's the most hard way to make money, but just that most traders especially newbies have that mindset of getting rich quick, through it, which is the primary reason they are always on the losing end.

Additionally, in trading knowledge alone on technical and fundamental analysis is not enough for you to be successful while trading, you need to have knowledge on how to manage your risk, how to control your emotions, when to stay off the market and when to be patient if you must be successful, but with Bitcoin investment all you just have to do is to buy with your discretionary income and hold without much stress, unlike trading that is more stressful and less rewarding on the longer run when compared to Bitcoin investment.

I will have to agree with you on that, trading do sound cool when you hear people talk about profits and charts, but in reality, it is one of the hardest things to stick with..  You can spend years learning everything, charts and its patterns, risk management and all other thing they do say and still end up frustrated when you mess things up.. 
It drains you mentally and even financially if you are not careful..

Honestly, investing makes a lot more sense..  You just buy what you believe in, like Bitcoin, and let time do its thing. No stress, no overthinking entries or exits..  You can still live your life without being glued to charts 24/7…. That is real freedom, not waking up every morning to chase candles that might never move your way..

[ZeroVinsonN]

Edited out

Of course, traders want to be able to win on the way up and on the way down, and sometimes they will use leverage and margin in order to shore up various bets that they make.

Historically, part of the difficulty in bitcoin is that it tends to trend up, and so traders should attempt to account for such trend, which such upward trend also justifies not trading, since the price has ultimately gone up.. at least historically.

Sure there are trades in which traders are making money, and they might even make money more often than they don't, yet they can also end up with one trade that ends up wiping out all of their previous gains.. so then they spend a bunch of time building up a trading portfolio, then their trade gets knocked back to zero or even below their starting point.. which sometimes might contribute towards their taking more risks to try to make it up and/or failing to be "in bitcoin" when the BTC price does some kind of a stair-step upward movement that does not end up correcting back to previous price levels...

With good leverage traders can potentially increase their profits but this also works both ways as their losses can be increased as well so while it promises good fortune it also promises quick liquidation and if a trader is not careful they can loss their entire assets in the process.
Maybe they can cheat the process, I wouldn't really know since I'm not a trader but I also can't completely eliminate the possibility but this might only be possible if they can get an exceedingly good grip on the market volatility and also have a relatively high amount of luck on their side as this is one thing that ultimately decides the traders fate, and more traders tend to do it because usually they've seen or heard of someone else's success and they want a part in it, the problem is that while success stories tend to carry far alot, stories of failures stay relatively hidden from the public most of the time or people just usually like to ignore them, there have been reports of suicides after the last crash but you'd notice that people didn't really bother too much with it, most just went on like nothing happened, imagine if the reverse had been the case then it would have been top trend across every platform till date and more and more people would have been pouring themselves into trading, it's almost like the world is naturally biased towards trading then investing.

Edited out

It hardly makes any sense since bitcoin has been and likely will continue to be amongst the best of investments, yet guys want to take chances to try to make more from it, when it already has high likelihood (not guaranteed) of success by just ongoingly building it up over time... so they take an asset with a high likelihood for success and they try to get even more profits out of it.. which ends up putting their investment at risk.. and yeah, sometimes the ups and downs seem to be so obvious, but then the BTC price does not end up moving in accordance with what had seemed to have had been so obvious.

There also may well be guys who made a lot of profits over the past couple of cycles since they buy bitcoin and then shave off their profits along the way, but then they may well would have had been better off to just put that money into bitcoin and just sit on that money since it can be difficult to beat 10x, 100x and even 1,000x returns that came through mere BTC price appreciation over the past 10-ish years (of course, depending on when a person got in and how much he might have been able to put in at various earlier bitcoin price points).  Even a guy who might have had started investing $100 per week in bitcoin in late 2015 (or even the beginning of 2016) at the end of that particular down period, he may well have had invested right around $50k over the past 10 years, yet at the same time ending up with more than 15 bitcoin right now, so it is very difficult to proclaim that trading in and out of bitcoin during that period of time could have had improved such results... sure it is possible to have had beat a buy and hold strategy, but not seeming to be very likely to have had been able to accomplish such better performance as compared with a buy and hold strategy.

Bitcoin is not likely to have as high of an upside in the next 10 years, even though it is likely to remain a decently good place to invest and difficult to justify trading it rather than just putting value into it.

Well it's not new that people will want to get more than they actually can, it human nature and most people who can't fight it end up falling for it, you will see them taking the 'no risk no reward' too literally, it's even worse when they don't even know what they are even doing at all they are banking everything on a chance or hope or belief or maybe even faith like life works entirely on these things, certainly profits can be made from trading if not people won't go into it at all but for a group of people who love to over analyze things they fail at the simplest analysis; sure you can can make a bit of profit from trading every now and then, there will also be loses and if you are lucky enough you might get more wins than loses so at the end of the day you are better off than when you started, but a better look at the whole thing will reveal that investing would have provided that amount of profit or even more without all the losses that followed you through trading. But it seems that when you have the ability to over analyze things you lose the ability to see the simpler possibilities/outcomes and this is the biggest mistake traders make; not seeing the potentials that comes with investing.

Edited out

probably all those who later find it difficult in succeeding in the art of trading perhaps haven't gained the necessary skill required to trade adequately and as a result they may feel discouraged thinking trading isn't as not for them, but with the right information I think anyone can make the most out of trading as long as he or she is ready to spend time and learn what it takes to trade efficiently.

If by necessary skill you mean LUCK then you are probably right, they definitely haven't acquired the skills necessary to succeed in bitcoin trading and since luck can not be achieved as a skill then they will never gain the skills necessary to master bitcoin trading, at the end of the day this is the simple fact; trading relies almost entirely on luck and if you are planning on building up your entire wealth on the hope that luck will be on your side that you are going to be disappointed, life doesn't work that way and trading is just as complicated.
And no matter how much knowledge you acquire on trading you will never know all there is to know about it, the market is unpredictable so why bank on that unpredictability to make profit? Why not just do something less unpredictable like investing and getting the profit you want without jeopardizing your entire assets for a few quick extra cash.

Edited out

I am new, please correct me if I am wrong. I think that to be successful in trading, no matter how much analysis and calculation you do, even if you have temporary success, you still have to face losses most of the time. I think trading is like hunting in the dark, if you shoot in the dark, the chances of loss are high. No matter how much you analyze and practice in trading, I think that a very good result is uncertain. There is a high chance of getting stuck on the way to moving forward quickly in a short time. So I think it is better to have a long-term plan than trading.

Getting stuck will actually be better since even though you are not making profit you are also not losing, you likely won't get stuck, you will spiral down with so much losses that any profit you make will seem insignificant to you and when you are doing something and making profit from it but the profit is nothing compared to the losses than that thing whatever it is, is not good for you, and this is more or less how bitcoin trading works. You see no matter how many calculations and analysis you make you will still not be able to claim that your profit will be better than what it would have been if you had just been investing the whole time and over the past decade or more we have seen how much profits people have made for bitcoin investment and with the hope of similar profits coming in the future it would be better if you invested in bitcoin rather than trade with it.

[ginsan]

I am new, please correct me if I am wrong. I think that to be successful in trading, no matter how much analysis and calculation you do, even if you have temporary success, you still have to face losses most of the time. I think trading is like hunting in the dark, if you shoot in the dark, the chances of loss are high. No matter how much you analyze and practice in trading, I think that a very good result is uncertain. There is a high chance of getting stuck on the way to moving forward quickly in a short time. So I think it is better to have a long-term plan than trading.

Firstly, what we are discussing is bitcoin and strictly investment, not just investment but long term investment, and not this trading stuff you mentioned. Here, we encourage bitcoin investment, accumulating with your discretionary with a long term plan.

But to answer your question, trading is highly risky and to an extent, one might not escape losses sometimes despite your study and analysis. Because of its high risk and market nature, we encourage bitcoin investment which provides future profit if we can buy and Hodl for long term, let's say 4-10 years and or more. Crypto trading is highly not advisable, though everyone has a right to what he wants to do.

Yes, we are discussing long-term investments here, including the approach and the safest and most recommended methods. If @taibodi wants to read more, please do so on several pages in this thread to understand the discussion better.

Trading is only for certain people; it is not easy to become a trader. They must spend a lot of time analyzing every piece of information that affects the market and analyzing price movements, which I think is not an easy job. Even if you can do it, the probability of success in trading is also very small, and you have to accept the fact that the failure rate in trading is more than 95% in this world. Therefore, it is indeed better to invest than to trade. Holding Bitcoin carries no risk and is actually profitable in the long term. The most important thing in investing in Bitcoin is understanding money management so that your investments run smoothly without being disrupted by your primary needs.

[Mummy OS]

probably all those who later find it difficult in succeeding in the art of trading perhaps haven't gained the necessary skill required to trade adequately and as a result they may feel discouraged thinking trading isn't as not for them, but with the right information I think anyone can make the most out of trading as long as he or she is ready to spend time and learn what it takes to trade efficiently.

There is nothing like gaining the necessary skill because our last born tried trading but later failed. Those traders that used to show people their results online are doing that to scam people by giving them their referral details to use to register and later they will be making money from those traders loses.

If you talk about getting signal for trades, be prepared to lose money. There is not sustainable results when you call yourself a trader. There are so many traders that lost money because they thought the journey will be easy for them but the end was suicide. People are not saying the truth about trading and that is the most annoying aspect of their predicaments for those that are starting to trade.

Trading is not for everyone, but investing is for everyone if you want to be financially free. Those that has been trading for years hardly have a good life because it's the most hard way to make money, but just that most traders especially newbies have that mindset of getting rich quick, through it, which is the primary reason they are always on the losing end.

Perhaps I can conclude that by saying trading is not safe for us evening though we have all the skills understanding the market ways. Those that called themselves traders that are making money from trading and advising other people to join them are doing that to attract people to come make money when the money made might not be sustainable for a long period of time. You can be making money for straight two years and be rejoicing but the following years might become a problem.

Trading is very risky and we should not attempt to put your money into trading whether you are good at what you do or not because a time will come when you are going to return that money through any means. Those that trade all the whole coins especially Shitcoins should await their doom day. I hate altcoins/Shitcoins because I have attempted that and lost money. I learnt my lesson and it was unfortunate.

Additionally, in trading knowledge alone on technical and fundamental analysis is not enough for you to be successful while trading, you need to have knowledge on how to manage your risk, how to control your emotions, when to stay off the market and when to be patient if you must be successful, but with Bitcoin investment all you just have to do is to buy with your discretionary income and hold without much stress, unlike trading that is more stressful and less rewarding on the longer run when compared to Bitcoin investment.

If you use fundamental or any of these you have mentioned, the market can outsmart you and you could lose all your money. I have people that have tried all these as brother and friends but non can boost of continuity in profit making. You will always lose even though you have proclaimed yourself to be a winner.

[MainIbem]

Yes, we are discussing long-term investments here, including the approach and the safest and most recommended methods. If @taibodi wants to read more, please do so on several pages in this thread to understand the discussion better.

Trading is only for certain people; it is not easy to become a trader. They must spend a lot of time analyzing every piece of information that affects the market and analyzing price movements, which I think is not an easy job. Even if you can do it, the probability of success in trading is also very small, and you have to accept the fact that the failure rate in trading is more than 95% in this world. Therefore, it is indeed better to invest than to trade. Holding Bitcoin carries no risk and is actually profitable in the long term. The most important thing in investing in Bitcoin is understanding money management so that your investments run smoothly without being disrupted by your primary needs.

I also want to add that trading is for those who doesn't believe in hodling Bitcoin for long-term, those who wants quick profits and don't mind risking on shitcoins regardless of how risky it is compared to holding Bitcoin for a very long period and being patient with it as well. Bitcoin investment don't require one to analyse the price movement of the market or monitor it regularly like traders do, and investors don't have to be scared of volatility especially when it's the downtrend of it, all that's just require of an investor is to ensure their discretionary fund is available to constantly invest regularly over time for a longer period.

[Fara Chan]

I am new, please correct me if I am wrong. I think that to be successful in trading, no matter how much analysis and calculation you do, even if you have temporary success, you still have to face losses most of the time. I think trading is like hunting in the dark, if you shoot in the dark, the chances of loss are high. No matter how much you analyze and practice in trading, I think that a very good result is uncertain. There is a high chance of getting stuck on the way to moving forward quickly in a short time. So I think it is better to have a long-term plan than trading.

People here don't recommend trading, and the discussion itself is geared more towards long-term investment, not trading or anything similar. Your explanation isn't wrong with trading, but if you want to discuss trading in general, you should find another topic, as this isn't about that. However, if someone in the discussion is directing their opinion towards trading, perhaps you could cut that comment short and provide a more thoughtful explanation so they don't overestimate trading and forget that long-term investment is actually much better.

[Faazs]

that is why investors should practice trading no matter how they think they can be able to handle the two, trading might make investors to derail from the plan they had earlier, this may lead to serious regrets.

I agree with you, here.  Trading is a slippery slope that can be difficult to control if a person is not able to put limitations and boundaries upon it, and even have ways to segregate and/or limit their losses.  At the same time, some  guys are able to learn from practice, even though they are likely to be small in numbers - even though several traders likely end up devolve into thinking that they are in the small group of traders who are profitable and able to control/limit their trading, so there are likely a good number of traders who consider themselves to be way more talented than they are.

For trading to be a success it requires a lot of analysis and calculations, definitely not something everyone can do since doing all that will take alot of time out of people's hands plus they can't even be sure of their analysis, maybe a really good trader will be able to properly analyse the market and know when to enter and when to keep away from it which will be a great advantage to him but not everyone has access to this kind of information, most supposed trading barely understand how the trading market works, they got involved in trading because they saw or heard that someone else made quite a reasonable amount of profit from it and now they want a share of that profit, and sometimes most of them actually try to learn and understand trading principles and sometimes they are actually successful but this can only be said about a very small percentage probably less than 10% and the other over 90% don't quite grasp onto how trading works and end of going into it shortsighted which ultimately leads to them losing out alot.

Of course, traders want to be able to win on the way up and on the way down, and sometimes they will use leverage and margin in order to shore up various bets that they make.

Historically, part of the difficulty in bitcoin is that it tends to trend up, and so traders should attempt to account for such trend, which such upward trend also justifies not trading, since the price has ultimately gone up.. at least historically.

Sure there are trades in which traders are making money, and they might even make money more often than they don't, yet they can also end up with one trade that ends up wiping out all of their previous gains.. so then they spend a bunch of time building up a trading portfolio, then their trade gets knocked back to zero or even below their starting point.. which sometimes might contribute towards their taking more risks to try to make it up and/or failing to be "in bitcoin" when the BTC price does some kind of a stair-step upward movement that does not end up correcting back to previous price levels...

Sometimes I really wonder what would convince a person to trade bitcoin, it's not a very smart decision and it's not even profitable and looking for something profitable is what pushes people into trading so why trade when you would most likely not get any profit out of it.

The truth is some people make decisions blindly, or should I say they're just being too hasty to make profit. Because I also keep wondering why a guy will chose to go into trading that you can't take your eyes off the Market for some days, this makes we think that trading is even more stressful than most of this monthly pay jobs because it requires a lot of attention. Imagine something that requires alot of one's attention is what most people are still prioritizing over Investment that you can only showed up once is time to make your purchase then after making your purchase  you just go offline, though everyone have the right to decide what is best for them those who have decided to trade with bitcoin instead of focusing on the long term investment knows Best.

It's not that trading is not good, but the thing is that you have to know that trading need serious training and it's training will take you a couple of days before you understand it better, why some traders record a lot of losses, is due to they are not being trained well before they go into trading, some people is making turns of profit every day in trading, why they make make profit is because they acquired the skill of trading very well, why people that lose that much in trading are people who doesn't have basic knowledge of trading and join

If someone don't have the ideas of trading, the person shouldn't bother to trade, it's better for the person to buy Bitcoin and hold, that will be more safer than trading for something you know nothing about, buying Bitcoin and hold will is preferable than trading if you are novice in both.

It seems to me that trading likely takes a lot of learning and practice before figuring out various ways to potentially make it work so that you are not overly losing money, and some folks are likely to be more challenged in their abilities to trade in a way that is going to help them to be prepared for price moves in either direction... .. and so I doubt that anyone even comes close to developing good trading skills and practices in a matter of days or weeks - even if they might take approaches to trading that involves starting out with smaller amounts prior to perhaps increasing the amounts that they are staking (putting at risk) in their trades.

It takes way too many learning and practice and even with this there is still very little guarantee of success and the very number of traders who actually make profit from it barely trade with bitcoin, you will usually see them trading with altcoins that have higher volatility than bitcoin, of course higher volatility will increase the chances of a loss but it also increases the chances of turning a profit and some good traders are able to tell when the chances of making a profit are higher then the chances of losing so they take advantage of this opportunities though this probably doesn't always work out all the time, bitcoin trading has shown to be a relatively unsuccessful endeavour which is why smart traders tend to avoid it, but alot of people think that the higher the value of the asset the higher the chances of making profit out of it through trading and with this mentality they decide to trade bitcoin and most of the time the lose but still they keep doing it almost like there is a drive behind them, I'm not really sure.
Bitcoin investment on the other hand offers far less mental stress and it's relatively safer to go into and that's why bitcoin investors are more likely to make profit than bitcoin traders.

It hardly makes any sense since bitcoin has been and likely will continue to be amongst the best of investments, yet guys want to take chances to try to make more from it, when it already has high likelihood (not guaranteed) of success by just ongoingly building it up over time... so they take an asset with a high likelihood for success and they try to get even more profits out of it.. which ends up putting their investment at risk.. and yeah, sometimes the ups and downs seem to be so obvious, but then the BTC price does not end up moving in accordance with what had seemed to have had been so obvious.

There also may well be guys who made a lot of profits over the past couple of cycles since they buy bitcoin and then shave off their profits along the way, but then they may well would have had been better off to just put that money into bitcoin and just sit on that money since it can be difficult to beat 10x, 100x and even 1,000x returns that came through mere BTC price appreciation over the past 10-ish years (of course, depending on when a person got in and how much he might have been able to put in at various earlier bitcoin price points).  Even a guy who might have had started investing $100 per week in bitcoin in late 2015 (or even the beginning of 2016) at the end of that particular down period, he may well have had invested right around $50k over the past 10 years, yet at the same time ending up with more than 15 bitcoin right now, so it is very difficult to proclaim that trading in and out of bitcoin during that period of time could have had improved such results... sure it is possible to have had beat a buy and hold strategy, but not seeming to be very likely to have had been able to accomplish such better performance as compared with a buy and hold strategy.

Bitcoin is not likely to have as high of an upside in the next 10 years, even though it is likely to remain a decently good place to invest and difficult to justify trading it rather than just putting value into it.

Trading is more like gambling with bitcoin and any investors that really get to comprehend bitcoin for what it really stands for will never thing of gambling with bitcoin all in the name of making quick profit. Trading comes with a high level of risk which in anyway cant be compared with the risk associated with long term investment. There is no investors, no matter how technical incline they may seem to be in speculating market prices can speculate correctly the exact directions of the market.

Did i hear you say trading is more like gambling? Trading and gambling are thesame thing, trading is not entirely bad for those who study the market i think this thread doesn't promote trading so we shouldn't be talking about it bitcoin isn't what we should be buying and selling without regular accumulation and hodl with this way the profit of who is trading can't be compare with what a long term hodler will benefit, it pays to be a long term investor.

If you save in Bitcoin for the long term and invest in Bitcoin according to the DCA method, you can definitely make more powerful profits. Because Bitcoin is the only one that is most compatible with the DCA method, where not every investor has enough money. So that investor cannot invest at once, it is reasonable for him to buy Bitcoin every week with some of his income. Not everyone is rich in this world, so if you invest in Bitcoin according to the DCA method, both the rich and the poor can hold Bitcoin and hold it for a long time.

Bitcoin doors is open to both the rich and the poor to come in and invest. It doesn't discriminate instead it welcome everyone to invest  as long as they can figure out a Discretional income .  Exactly, Bitcoin can be used as a store to keep our wealth or funds in continuous value as long as we can continue to Hold and not sell. As bitcoin appreciates in value over time,our funds invested also increases along with it. Both the rich and the poor can equally invest in Bitcoin but the poor man might easily be tempted to tamper with his Bitcoin holding before even reaching his over accumulation stage..

I appreciate your thoughtful perspective. You're right that Bitcoin's accessibility is genuinely democratic in that sense there's no minimum investment requirement. Someone can start with whatever spare cash they have, even small amounts. Your point about discretionary income is important though. The idea that both rich and poor can invest equally is true in theory but there's a real friction point in practice. A poor person investing their limited discretionary income faces genuine pressure that a wealthy person doesn't. When unexpected expenses hit medical bills, car repairs, job loss that discretionary income gets needed elsewhere. It's not weakness; it's survival.

It's not that poor people lack discipline or understanding. It's that they have less margin for error. It's not about always the temptation. A rich person can hold through downturns because they have other resources. A struggling person might watch their Bitcoin drop 30% and might think he needed that money for rent next monthand they're not wrong. The real wealth building with Bitcoin does seem to come from that long-term holding and accumulation phase like you mentioned. But the people who most need wealth building are often the least able to weather the volatility. That's a genuine asymmetry.

Your comparison of the poor person to the rich person seems to outline why it remains important for poor people to build within their means so that they are not tempted to tap into their bitcoin investment at a time in which it would be better to keep the value in bitcoin.  Poor people may well ongoingly need the money, and if they are not able to figure out ways to stock the money away without touching it and without putting systems in place in order to not tap into their bitcoin, then they might not have enough money to be able to invest into bitcoin.. since they would end up trading and/or gambling if they cannot put systems and practices in place to create some level of confidence that they are not going to be tapping into their bitcoin stash in less than 4-10 years or longer.

As we also discussed poor people might have limitations in which they are able to increase their discretionary income by increasing their income and/or by cutting their expenses... there might ONLY be so much that they are ready, willing and able to do in the direction of increasing their discretionary income.. which is what is needed to be able to invest into bitcoin - and not and up trading and/or gambling with money that they actually need for either present expenses or some expenses into the future that might not have had yet been identified... sometimes even a small level of emergency funds (or back up funds) could save them in regards to preparing for various unidentified future expenses.

[edited out]

probably all those who later find it difficult in succeeding in the art of trading perhaps haven't gained the necessary skill required to trade adequately and as a result they may feel discouraged thinking trading isn't as not for them, but with the right information I think anyone can make the most out of trading as long as he or she is ready to spend time and learn what it takes to trade efficiently.

Are you full of shit, Skydrill?  

You really think that anyone can learn sufficient trading skills in order to turn it from being a loser (for 95% of those who try it) into being successful for a majority?

You seem to be living in a fantasy, and sure there are some profitable traders, and they might even have long streaks of success (luck)..

For an overwhelming majority of people it is likely better to figure out ways to earn money in other ways, and sure if they want to practice trading that might be o.k. to see if they can make money from it, even though many times, even folks who might have some outside income they are putting into trading, they still might end up losing more than they win and not really making any progress, even if they might be able to figure out some profitable tactics and strategies and hedges to bet on both the ups and the downs.

Another problem that traders tend to have that devolves into a kind of gambling is an ever increasing need for more and  more capital, so even if they might have had found some successful ways of utilizing their capital, they may well end up winning and having some successful trades that may well cause them to put more money into future trades, and so one or two losses of the future trades might end up costing them much more than their various gains in their earlier trades.. and even if we might be able to identify some traders who have been successful and/or lucky, they might not be able to pass those skills on to others  or make some of their experiences replicable.. and they might not even themselves be able to replicate their earlier success.

So, surely it is not obvious that anyone or everyone is able to learn such trading skills that will end up putting them into a better position than folks who are able to figure out investing skills and the various cashflow management skills and practices around building up a bitcoin investment.. that in and of itself might take years and years to build up both the bitcoin investment and to strengthen the cashflow management systems/practices.

Honestly, most people who think they can “learn” trading end up realizing it’s not as simple as watching charts or following indicators.
I’ve seen people make profits during bull runs, like, during the 2021 bull run, countless retail traders made good profits on paper, but by the next bear phase, most had wiped out their portfolios trying to “win it back.” Emotions, overconfidence, and leverage destroy more accounts than bad strategies ever do. Even some skilled traders can’t replicate their success because the market always changes. On the other hand, those who simply stacked sats, managed their cash flow, and stayed patient through the dips have consistently come out ahead over the years. For example, a person who bought Bitcoin in early 2019 at around $4,000 and just held through the ups and downs would have outperformed almost every short-term trader by 2025, even without perfect timing. That’s not luck, that’s the discipline of long-term conviction and managing cash flow well enough to keep stacking during dips instead of panic-selling.

Even professional traders with winning records, like those in hedge funds or crypto quant firms, rely on systems, automation, and teams not intuition alone. And when they’re honest, they’ll admit how rare and fragile consistent profitability really is.

Trading Bitcoin can be educational, sure but for the overwhelming majority, holding Bitcoin and learning proper cash management is a much more reliable way to build wealth than chasing quick trades.