Second chance for mixers?

[NotATether]

It's rare to see The US do the opposite what The EU did, EU are tightening their regulation since they want to KYC every self custodial wallet that send more than $1K, although they didn't explicitly said if they ban mixer.

I think that's enough as a reason for second chance, @theymos shouldn't afraid if he would go to jail because US not attacking mixer anymore, at least for now.

See, I love being an American.

[paid2]

It's good to know that this is now a thing of the past:

National Cryptocurrency Enforcement Team

The National Cryptocurrency Enforcement Team (NCET) was established in February 2022 to address the challenge posed by the criminal misuse of cryptocurrencies and digital assets.  The team is comprised of attorneys from across the Department, including prosecutors with backgrounds in cryptocurrency, cybercrime, money laundering and forfeiture.  Working in close collaboration with components across the Department, including the Criminal Division’s Computer Crime and Intellectual Property Section and Money Laundering and Asset Recovery Section; the U.S. Attorneys’ offices; the National Security Division; and the FBI, including the FBI’s Virtual Asset Exploitation Unit, the NCET works to identify, investigate, support and pursue the department’s cases involving the criminal use of digital assets, with a particular focus on virtual currency exchanges, mixing and tumbling services, infrastructure providers, and other entities that are enabling the misuse of cryptocurrency and related technologies to commit or facilitate criminal activity, and individuals who use these technologies to defraud the public.

The NCET sets strategic priorities regarding digital asset technologies, identifies areas for increased investigative and prosecutorial focus, and leads the department’s efforts to coordinate with domestic and international law enforcement partners, regulatory agencies and private industry to combat the criminal use of digital assets. Finally, the NCET enhances the Criminal Division’s existing efforts to provide support and training to federal, state, local, and international law enforcement to build capacity to aggressively investigate and prosecute serious crimes involving cryptocurrency and digital assets in the United States and around the world.

The two sentences in bold alone mean "war to crypto".
Some nonsense can be found here, misuse of cryptocurrency is what could rightly be called a vague terminology, which leaves the door open to the worst abuses and exaggerations that we are currently experiencing in terms of surveillance, accountability, having to prove our innocence before being formally accused of anything...

[theymos]

I'm leaving this here.

https://www.justice.gov/dag/media/1395781/dl?inline

That is an extremely good development! I've also been pleased to see several other actions like that, such as removing Tornado Cash from the sanctions list. However, President Trump has only been in office for a few months, and the actual effects of these stated policy positions won't be clear for a while. The Biden administration also said that mixers aren't necessarily illegal, and that they weren't anti-crypto. Actions and time will speak louder than words. So I probably won't consider reversing the mixer ban until Trump has been in office for a full year, and we have a fuller picture of how his administration actually operates in these areas.

[fillippone]

I'm leaving this here.

https://www.justice.gov/dag/media/1395781/dl?inline

That is an extremely good development! I've also been pleased to see several other actions like that, such as removing Tornado Cash from the sanctions list. However, President Trump has only been in office for a few months, and the actual effects of these stated policy positions won't be clear for a while. The Biden administration also said that mixers aren't necessarily illegal, and that they weren't anti-crypto. Actions and time will speak louder than words. So I probably won't consider reversing the mixer ban until Trump has been in office for a full year, and we have a fuller picture of how his administration actually operates in these areas.

This is a sensible decision in the forum's best interest in the long term.
I guess we will see many developments in the legislation the Trump administration is enacting in the next year.
I am quite sceptical about a U-turn as far as privacy is concerned, but I could potentially be on the wrong side of the fence here.

[JollyGood]

Now that it has become clear the mixer ban will not be considered before January 2026, that is the end of the matter.

[KingsDen]

I'm leaving this here.

https://www.justice.gov/dag/media/1395781/dl?inline

-snip-

Executive Order 14178 tasks the Justice Department and others with "protecting and promoting" (1) "the ability of individual citizens and private-sector entities alike to access and use for lawful purposes open public blockchain networks without persecution"; and (2) "fair and open access to banking services for all law-abiding individual citizens and private-sector entities alike." In response to those taskings, the Justice Department will stop participating in regulation by prosecution in this space. Specifically, the Department will no longer target virtual currency exchanges, mixing and tumbling services, and offline wallets for the acts of their end users or unwitting violations of regulations-except to the extent the investigation is consistent with the priorities articulated in the following paragraphs.

Wow!
This is surprising how it was written bodily that the Department will no longer target mixers. So, Biden was intentional these while.

The Biden administration also said that mixers aren't necessarily illegal, and that they weren't anti-crypto. Actions and time will speak louder than words. So I probably won't consider reversing the mixer ban until Trump has been in office for a full year, and we have a fuller picture of how his administration actually operates in these areas.

Trump is not going back!
He will be extremely bitcoin friendly throughout his administration.

[JiiBs]

I'm leaving this here.

https://www.justice.gov/dag/media/1395781/dl?inline

That is an extremely good development! I've also been pleased to see several other actions like that, such as removing Tornado Cash from the sanctions list. However, President Trump has only been in office for a few months, and the actual effects of these stated policy positions won't be clear for a while. The Biden administration also said that mixers aren't necessarily illegal, and that they weren't anti-crypto. Actions and time will speak louder than words. So I probably won't consider reversing the mixer ban until Trump has been in office for a full year, and we have a fuller picture of how his administration actually operates in these areas.

Not a bad stances on this, don’t know what the stakes really was but, when it’s come to government and its policies, it’s always up to time to define the context of its policy formation and how it could be applied. Taking it head straight could always end badly as, they are the government, they always have a way to twist these policies and to put you in bad position to benefit the government of the day.

[Free Market Capitalist]

It's rare to see The US do the opposite what The EU did, EU are tightening their regulation since they want to KYC every self custodial wallet that send more than $1K, although they didn't explicitly said if they ban mixer.

It's not about USA vs EU, it's about a certain US president, who is a clown in other aspects but as far as this is concerned has a political ideology favorable to freedom instead of prior censorship.

I doubt very much that the woke trash that rules Europe is going to take the same direction. In fact, with Trump in power they are accelerating the implementation of CBDCs, which would be coupled with a digital identity and identified internet access project.

[JollyGood]

Trump does get many things wrong when it comes to making announcements that shake up the political elites in every country you can think of. Look at the markets collapsing after his tariff raising endeavour was announced. He might have delayed it for now for all countries except China but the stocks plunged. He takes one step in a positive direction yet makes an horrendous mistake and takes two steps back.

As for the EU, they probably decided they cannot count on the current US president for any support therefore they are going to find their own way whether on crypto or defence or anything else.

It's not about USA vs EU, it's about a certain US president, who is a clown in other aspects but as far as this is concerned has a political ideology favorable to freedom instead of prior censorship.

I doubt very much that the woke trash that rules Europe is going to take the same direction. In fact, with Trump in power they are accelerating the implementation of CBDCs, which would be coupled with a digital identity and identified internet access project.

[chigo]

I'm leaving this here.

https://www.justice.gov/dag/media/1395781/dl?inline

That is an extremely good development! I've also been pleased to see several other actions like that, such as removing Tornado Cash from the sanctions list. However, President Trump has only been in office for a few months, and the actual effects of these stated policy positions won't be clear for a while. The Biden administration also said that mixers aren't necessarily illegal, and that they weren't anti-crypto. Actions and time will speak louder than words. So I probably won't consider reversing the mixer ban until Trump has been in office for a full year, and we have a fuller picture of how his administration actually operates in these areas.

thank you Theymos for your clarification, you are doing your best to keep this forum running without intervention from any party

GBU

[igebotz]

Wow!
This is surprising how it was written bodily that the Department will no longer target mixers. So, Biden was intentional these while.

We'd know Trump intentions towards mixers and crypto after full year as theymos just stated, he's been over the place with so many executive orders since he took office - it easy to sign, so let's see if those orders would be enforced.

Trump is not going back!
He will be extremely bitcoin friendly throughout his administration.

Action speaks louder than voice; Sinbad and Chipmixer are still on the sanctioned list - until these mixers are removed from the sanctioned list I won't believe anything. We wouldn't want a situation where the forum would be caught up in the middle of US political propaganda and power tissues..

[LoyceV]

Action speaks louder than voice; Sinbad and Chipmixer are still on the sanctioned list - until these mixers are removed from the sanctioned list I won't believe anything.

Isn't the argument here that those mixers were ran by criminals? I'm not a lawyer and I don't like "legal text", but this post sounds like the mixer won't get targeted for acts of their end users, but they'll still target them for their own acts.

[Lucius]

I am not sure about how implementation of EU law works. I can recall one EU member state that was blocking aid for a non-EU state when all other nations voted in favour. Only when they received some benefit for their own state did they allow the bill to pass.

It works the way I wrote to you, the big ones impose laws on the small ones as it has always been the case. Although the small ones sometimes ignore the big ones, they can't do that forever. The country you are talking about is Hungary, the black sheep of the EU in everything, but that is a completely different topic.

If the laws are not ratified across the EU it means there is no universal consensus between EU nations. In that case it could be down to individual states to implement their own policy towards mixers.

However, this forum is based in the US, there is an admin who is a citizen of that country, and the position of the EU on this issue is not too important. Of course, for each individual, violating the laws of their country can have consequences, but for me personally, as someone who lives within the EU, it doesn't matter at all.

Even if they (EU) ban this forum and start a witch hunt, each of us should protect ourselves in such a way as to preserve our privacy and anonymity.

[igebotz]

Action speaks louder than voice; Sinbad and Chipmixer are still on the sanctioned list - until these mixers are removed from the sanctioned list I won't believe anything.

Isn't the argument here that those mixers were ran by criminals? I'm not a lawyer and I don't like "legal text", but this post sounds like the mixer won't get targeted for acts of their end users, but they'll still target them for their own acts.

Yes they were tagged as criminals for the act of end users - not sure they were directly involved. I could be wrong.

Wasn't Sinba, Chipmixer and Tornado cash sanctioned for the acts of their end users? Doesn't the lazurus group act falls into this category of "end users" ?

[Richbased]

So I probably won't consider reversing the mixer ban until Trump has been in office for a full year, and we have a fuller picture of how his administration actually operates in these areas.

Fair enough Theymos, that's a smart idea because Donald Trump is very controversial, he can wake up tomorrow and say something contrary

What's next? The president's official mixing service, which could be called TruMix

That's it, this is just to pave way for Donald Trump to initiate his own mixing service to his own selfish interests. However, it will be a good development if the mixers services is reinstated but then what will happen when Trump leaves office, will it continue?

[Franctoshi]

We'd know Trump intentions towards mixers and crypto after full year as theymos just stated, he's been over the place with so many executive orders since he took office - it easy to sign, so let's see if those orders would be enforced.

Trump is not going back!
He will be extremely bitcoin friendly throughout his administration.

Yes, you're right enforcement is the key thing we want to see, it's nice that the first step has been taken by Donald Trump as he revoked the existing law on this subject matter.

Wow!
This is surprising how it was written bodily that the Department will no longer target mixers. So, Biden was intentional these while.

This is a good development though, it's fine this particular administration is becoming more crypto friendly in its policies with Cryptocurrency as compared to the previous administration policies that wasn't fair and clear, However,  all balls down to just being something of a matter of time and patient and we will get to the top of the whole thing, and I believe there is also going to be a regulatory clarity at some point to what would exist and what is going to vanish within the crypto space.

[KingsDen]

Trump is not going back!
He will be extremely bitcoin friendly throughout his administration.

Action speaks louder than voice; Sinbad and Chipmixer are still on the sanctioned list - until these mixers are removed from the sanctioned list I won't believe anything. We wouldn't want a situation where the forum would be caught up in the middle of US political propaganda and power tissues..

I can't say much about Sinbad because I was skeptical about their seizure, instead I thought it was an exit scam and didn't study process of their seizure. But for chipmixer, I studied the whole document released by FBI. Their case was more of re-occuring criminal issues, seemed they had alot of evidences and had extended investigations before striking. Even if US will be very much mixer friendly, I don't think chipmixer case would be dropped.

[JollyGood]

If the passing of a bill requires 27 member states to agree, then any one of them could effectively block any law by disagreeing with the other 26. This is neither reasonable, acceptable or democratic yet for all the positive comments that could be mentioned about the EU, this is how the EU is functioning both with division and flaws as well as unity and reason.

It will not take long before the EU provide a statement on the matter. All that remains to be seen is whether they change their position to align with Trump.

It works the way I wrote to you, the big ones impose laws on the small ones as it has always been the case. Although the small ones sometimes ignore the big ones, they can't do that forever. The country you are talking about is Hungary, the black sheep of the EU in everything, but that is a completely different topic.

[hugeblack]

Now its up to the EU to drop their similar charges against the ChipMixer operator; we'll see if they follow suit in terms of regulations.

No, nothing will change, but according to the consequences of this decision, the Sinbad campaign address^[1] will be removed from the blacklist.

Actions and time will speak louder than words. So I probably won't consider reversing the mixer ban until Trump has been in office for a full year, and we have a fuller picture of how his administration actually operates in these areas.

Are there any thoughts on moving outside the US or to a state that respects end-user privacy?
Given the recent updates regarding staff, I wouldn't be surprised when Bitcoin Core discussions banned (if government policies change).


[1] https://sanctionssearch.ofac.treas.gov/Details.aspx?id=44437

[dkbit98]

So I probably won't consider reversing the mixer ban until Trump has been in office for a full year, and we have a fuller picture of how his administration actually operates in these areas.

I think this is acceptable decision, now everyone has to wait until 2026 to see possible lifting of ban
This US administration is a bit chaotic, especially with recent trading war, and anything can happen in next few months, so I am can understand this decision.

Isn't the argument here that those mixers were ran by criminals?

It's not the same if some service is used or ran by criminals, but those ''evil'' North Korean hackers are perfect excuse for everything