Peter Schiff Calls Strategy a Fraud, Challenges Saylor to Debate

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https://coinpaper.com/12391/peter-schiff-calls-strategy-a-fraud-challenges-saylor-to-debate

Are you sure Peter Schiff is not just only saying this but some gangs behind him telling him to tell people this rubbish? He is a critic, he does not want anything good with bitcoin.

I think some people may be afraid of bitcoin not to take gold place. They could have seen something like that early but they just want to avoid it as they know people may follow their advice.

But at the end, bitcoin always remain a store of value for patient people.

I think this man is beyond a bitcoin critic.

[NotATether]

Good ol' Peter Schiff. 

Since Bitcoin is too big and mainstream for him to criticize anymore, he's now going after the treasury companies.

It will be interesting to see what comes out of this.

[flapduck]

Peter Schiff doesn't need gangs behind him to say this stuff, man. His whole business model for the last decade has been "gold good, Bitcoin bad" on repeat. He sells gold products, runs a gold brokerage, and farms engagement by being The Villain every time Bitcoin wobbles a bit. A 20% pullback, MicroStrategy down 50%, gold near ATH - that's basically Christmas for his marketing team.

If you read past the headline, he's not actually uncovering some secret fraud, he's just re-packaging a pretty standard criticism of MicroStrategy's leverage: they issue preferreds and debt, buy more BTC, and depend on the market staying willing to fund that machine.

[pooya87]

I think some people may be afraid of bitcoin not to take gold place.

I don't think so, these people don't make money from "gold". They run a business. In other words Schiff is not a critic, he is more like an oligarch and a scammer who runs a business and believes in "There's No Such Thing as Bad Publicity" nonsense.

Every time such people say some nonsense about bitcoin that makes no sense, they create a lot of debate on the internet and that advertises them and their business for free.

[aoluain]

Good ol' Peter Schiff.  

Since Bitcoin is too big and mainstream for him to criticize anymore, he's now going after the treasury companies.

It will be interesting to see what comes out of this.

Ha ha I know what will come of it - MS will wipe the floor with him. I dont think
there is anything Schiff can throw at Saylor which he wont be able to deal with.

Schiff better have his homework done before any debate takes place because
Saylor is ultra knowledgeable on Bitcoin and how the financial system works and
Saylors trump card is his Bitcoin knowledge.

[MainIbem]

I think some people may be afraid of bitcoin not to take gold place.

I don't think so, these people don't make money from "gold". They run a business. In other words Schiff is not a critic, he is more like an oligarch and a scammer who runs a business and believes in "There's No Such Thing as Bad Publicity" nonsense.

Every time such people say some nonsense about bitcoin that makes no sense, they create a lot of debate on the internet and that advertises them and their business for free.

You're making some good points here especially were you stated that's he's trying to create free publicity for his business which is why he always talks trash about Bitcoin so as to be relevant but I think people are beginning to understand his game and tricks especially since Bitcoin crossed $100k which he talked against and made people feel couldn't happen. People who understand Bitcoin don't give even a tiny f**k about him anymore cause lots are beginning to realise that Bitcoin is a digital gold the best he can do is talk thrash about Bitcoin enthusiasts but it can't stop the growth of Bitcoin and I wish he witness it go higher than the 100k mark in the future.

[Ronsbit]

I think some people may be afraid of bitcoin not to take gold place.

I don't think so, these people don't make money from "gold". They run a business. In other words Schiff is not a critic, he is more like an oligarch and a scammer who runs a business and believes in "There's No Such Thing as Bad Publicity" nonsense.

Every time such people say some nonsense about bitcoin that makes no sense, they create a lot of debate on the internet and that advertises them and their business for free.

I agree with your opinion here. Most of the time, I have had this thought about all these arguments with these men publicly about bitcoin and co, but I realize that they do not even do that because of bitcoin, they do it just to get more visibility and publicity for themselves and their products because they already know that there are some more people out there who would listen to their nonsense talks about bitcoin and subscribe to them while promoting themselves and their products.

There is one thing I have also noticed about these men: they are masters at their games; they know that no matter what is said on air against or for bitcoin brings publicity and audience to them, so they keep on repeating their activities in that same circle, which gives them the relevance they seek in their business space.

[Pumpsta]

Schiff can’t be taken seriously by literally anyone except himself and his delusional silverbug fans lol, he’s gonna call anyone who supports Bitcoin publicly a fraud and he’s gonna say BTC is a scam even if BTC becomes world reserve.. why do you guys still give him attention? It’s exactly what he wants

[Sandra_hakeem]

Good ol' Peter Schiff.  

Since Bitcoin is too big and mainstream for him to criticize anymore, he's now going after the treasury companies.

It will be interesting to see what comes out of this.

I'm wondering who takes people like them seriously.. "Main character syndrome" is so incredible strong on him. So, at some point, he needs to seek relevance every now and then from the public.

Schiff can’t be taken seriously by literally anyone except himself and his delusional silverbug fans

That's the reality. It only proves that a human with two eyes, a pair of hearing organs and a sense of perception can still be so slow,... Like, slow enough to depend and support another dullard.

[Satofan44]

Every time a thread is opened about Peter Schiff you are giving him additional relevance, stop making stupid people famous. I expect better from you, so learn this lesson finally and refuse to give him relevance.

If you read past the headline, he's not actually uncovering some secret fraud, he's just re-packaging a pretty standard criticism of MicroStrategy's leverage: they issue preferreds and debt, buy more BTC, and depend on the market staying willing to fund that machine.

There is nothing wrong here. Nobody is forcing anyone to provide money to Strategy, everyone is doing it on their own free will. There are no misrepresentations of any kind as to what they are doing. Therefore, no fraud is possible under any case.

Schiff can’t be taken seriously by literally anyone except himself and his delusional silverbug fans lol, he’s gonna call anyone who supports Bitcoin publicly a fraud and he’s gonna say BTC is a scam even if BTC becomes world reserve.. why do you guys still give him attention? It’s exactly what he wants

Both silver and gold are complete shit anyway. People sometimes complain that Bitcoin is not accepted where they live, but tell me what was the last time someone paid a restaurant with silver or gold? Useless and overpriced junk. Those that have not learnt their lesson from historical confiscations will learn their lessons only after it happens to them.

[Pumpsta]

Both silver and gold are complete shit anyway. People sometimes complain that Bitcoin is not accepted where they live, but tell me what was the last time someone paid a restaurant with silver or gold? Useless and overpriced junk. Those that have not learnt their lesson from historical confiscations will learn their lessons only after it happens to them.

You must be delusional too if you think gold & silver are useless or complete shit. The last time fiat had some actual value was when it was backed by any of these 2 or made out of them. They’re still used a lot in industry and I don’t think this will change anytime soon. I could contradict you: if there’s no power there’s no Bitcoin but metals still exist. BTC can be confiscated as easy as gold can, it’s our duty to just make sure nobody knows we own them.

[Satofan44]

You must be delusional too if you think gold & silver are useless or complete shit. The last time fiat had some actual value was when it was backed by any of these 2 or made out of them.

This was just a chance occurrence, if they were not backed by those it would have been backed by something else.

They’re still used a lot in industry and I don’t think this will change anytime soon.

Industry use will remain, but very little value comes from the industry use. If it stops being considered a reserve asset the value would plummet by 50-90%.

I could contradict you: if there’s no power there’s no Bitcoin but metals still exist.

If there is no oxygen, there are no humans. What kind of useless argument is this? Do you think silver and gold would be valuable if there is a complete loss of power in the whole world? Their value would be 0 over night.

BTC can be confiscated as easy as gold can, it’s our duty to just make sure nobody knows we own them.

This is a false claim that is meant to harm people who want to acquire things that provide financial sovereignty and freedom. Enjoy your negative tag for making up malicious lies. Bitcoin can not be confiscated if you use it correctly. It is not possible.

[asriloni]

As a neutral viewer. I'd like to see MS to accept the challenge to debate. I think it's good for entertainment purpose. I know almost everyone hated Peter, but let's take it easy. 

It's also interesting to see how MS will break down how his current business is working. The last time i've heard he borrowed more money to buy bitcoin, but can also pay the loan use MSTR shares when it's due.

[Satofan44]

As a neutral viewer. I'd like to see MS to accept the challenge to debate. I think it's good for entertainment purpose. I know almost everyone hated Peter, but let's take it easy. 

It's also interesting to see how MS will break down how his current business is working. The last time i've heard he borrowed more money to buy bitcoin, but can also pay the loan use MSTR shares when it's due.

No. Whenever you give in to something like this you are giving a fraud a platform and more relevance. It is because of mistaken views such as this one that many scammers in the past got relevant. Roger Ver, Craig Wright and many more. Don't facilitate people getting scammed. Ignore Schiff and move on, that is the best approach.

[Zlantann]

As a neutral viewer. I'd like to see MS to accept the challenge to debate. I think it's good for entertainment purpose. I know almost everyone hated Peter, but let's take it easy.  

It's also interesting to see how MS will break down how his current business is working. The last time i've heard he borrowed more money to buy bitcoin, but can also pay the loan use MSTR shares when it's due.

Peter Schiff has his fans, maybe people who prefer gold as an asset. It would be a waste of time to debate with a man who has a strong hatred for Bitcoin. Peter usually comes up with these attacks each time the price of Bitcoin drops or there is a challenge in the Bitcoin space. He becomes dumb when the price goes high or there is a positive development. He once advised Biden to sell off all the Bitcoin the US owns. And went mad when the US announced the establishment of a Bitcoin reserve. He is just a ranting loser.

[Pumpsta]

This was just a chance occurrence, if they were not backed by those it would have been backed by something else.

You seriously believe fiat was backed by gold randomly? Do you imagine they just put some random assets on pieces of paper and picked a random one out of a bowl?

Industry use will remain, but very little value comes from the industry use. If it stops being considered a reserve asset the value would plummet by 50-90%.

You’re wrong, the value would plummet by 47.6-81.33%.

If there is no oxygen, there are no humans. What kind of useless argument is this? Do you think silver and gold would be valuable if there is a complete loss of power in the whole world? Their value would be 0 over night.

Comparing sudden lack of oxygen in the world to power loss.. Yep. You’re clearly delusional.

This is a false claim that is meant to harm people who want to acquire things that provide financial sovereignty and freedom. Enjoy your negative tag for making up malicious lies. Bitcoin can not be confiscated if you use it correctly. It is not possible.

Tell me how if the government knows I own BTC they can’t do anything to confiscate it..? People who hid their gold kept it until it was legal to own gold again, people who the govt knew about having gold had it confiscated. It’s as simple as that. If they wanna confiscate BTC nationwide do you think they’ll stop at just confiscating phones and PCs when they know the seeds of the biggest stashes are buried or hidden in a hole made on the top of a wooden door? Most BTC owners don’t have any clue how to store BTC safely and purchased BTC with their ID anyway, how many of them would try resisting the confiscation law instead of voluntarily giving their stash up?

[headingnorth]

Bitcoin may be inferior to gold in many ways but calling it a fraud just makes Schiff look ignorant.
There are more intelligent ways to make your argument without the tiresome name-calling.

[OgNasty]

Bitcoin may be inferior to gold in many ways but calling it a fraud just makes Schiff look ignorant.
There are more intelligent ways to make your argument without the tiresome name-calling.

I agree that name-calling isn't a great way for Schiff to start his argument... However, I really hope this debate happens.  Schiff also isn't calling Bitcoin a fraud, he is calling Strategy a fraud and I agree with him. 

There is no way that Saylor doesn't see that he has created a money burning machine with his recent STRx offerings.  He pumped Bitcoin every way he could and now his shareholders are going to pay the price as the check falls on them.  With no more new offerings likely able to raise funds and his stock trading at negative value to holdings, I don't even know how he is going to continue paying his obligations.  We are about to see quite the drama unfold.

[mikel_012]

What price was bitcoin when Peter Schiff start saying bad things about it? I don't think anyone should care about what he says at this time when he has made his followers lose a lot of money by saying bitcoin was worthless and now its over $90k

 

[treesintheforestooh]

Bitcoin may be inferior to gold in many ways but calling it a fraud just makes Schiff look ignorant.
There are more intelligent ways to make your argument without the tiresome name-calling.

He's willfully ignorant or, simply, not able to comprehend how Bitcoin works. Really is amazing how long he's kept up this, what, shtick?  

With respect to the OP:

But at the end, bitcoin always remain a store of value for patient people.

Patience is one thing, while complacency is another. I am of the mind many people in the wider Bitcoin network - social and professional (e.g. holders, aficionados, miners, strategists, etc...) - are far too complacent when it comes to the security of Bitcoin.

There's a discussion in the Mining board/section right now that speaks to this ("How much money would it take to destroy Bitcoin?").

Staying complacent on this front... thinking only "patience" will keep Bitcoin something like a store of value and/or a P2P, immutable and secure network/ledger is problematic, to say the very least.

Bitfarms just announced in their latest earnings call that they are going to halt Bitcoin mining due to unprofitability after reporting a $46 million, Q3 loss. They are (surprise!) turning to AI compute. Other large mining outfits are pivoting to AI compute, as well. I think TeraWulf announced something along these lines recently and a few others who aren't coming to mind at the moment.
 
We're watching the network become more centralized in real-time, while Cost of Attack is going down. Lowery's Softwar places Cost of Attack prominently, even absolutely central, to maintaining the network.

With all that said, it's not divined by the gods... nor written in stone... nor immutably recorded on any blockchain anywhere that Bitcoin will "always remain a store of value for patient people."