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Author Topic: The line between lost and hodl  (Read 264 times)
Satofan44
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December 26, 2025, 03:52:39 PM
 #21

Considering that bitcoin has not yet reached mass adoption, its 21 million cap is as unknown a bitcoin itself to majority of people.
Yeah, to claim that it is the most famous number is completely wrong. However, I think that it will enter history eventually as one of the most significant things to happen in this era. There is nothing like Bitcoin and pretty much everything has unlimited supply these days. Even many altcoins that had fixed supply switched to infinite supply after some time.

Usually those who "guess" the number of lost coins are simply counting the UTXOs that have not moved for a certain number of years. I say this to everyone who makes these claims: I started with bitcoin back in 2014 and I have small amount of coins from those years that I have not moved for 11 years. While I still own the keys, these "guessers" count my coins as lost.
Those that do it that way are dumb, it is similar to those that think that they understand quantum computers and the potential risks that they carry after reading a few articles or posts on X. The problem does not lie in the observation of coins based on again, the problem lies in inference. The internet is full of dumb people unfortunately, most of them don't even know what they don't know. From a statistics perspective, what those people are doing is basically like this:

  • Observed variable: time since last movement or spend.
  • Inference: probability that keys are lost after N years is equal to 1, where N is a random number decided by random guess work by some internet idiot.

This is an error that is as basic as it gets when it comes to statistics. If you think in terms of latent variables, "coin is lost" is not an observable state except in a few very specific cases where it is in a provably unspendable state (OP_RETURN being one)[1]. A proper analysis by a researcher would probably model coin movement as a stochastic process (and not a binary state of lost vs. not lost) and then use historical data to gather probabilities. For example, what is the probability that a coin that has not moved for N years will move again? This is done by analyzing all coins and movements. It could also make some distinction based on address types or other metrics.

So yes this can be done right but it requires a lot of statistical knowledge, Bitcoin technical expertise and research experience. However, the conclusion will never be dumb as the one we usually get. It will only gives us probabilities.

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Their silence for over ten years isn't just a strategy, it’s a testament to a level of conviction that is rare in today’s attention driven market.
Another problem with these guesses is that they guess that an early day miner only owns the coins that are not moved and didn't own anything else! In other words if they haven't moved dozens of 50BTC rewards from early blocks, they may have already moved a single block reward that is worth almost $4.5 million. Do they need to move all their coins? Not really. Therefore the rest are untouched and that doesn't show "conviction" of any kind...
As of time of writing, only people with P2PK addresses should definitely move all their coins. Not doing so is a mistake and risky to both the user and the network. For everyone else (assuming normal and secure address derivation of course) you are correct.


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December 26, 2025, 04:02:28 PM
 #22

The 21 million hard cap is the most famous number in finance,

21 million bitcoin hard cap may not be the most famous, what about the all time high figure, are people not more concerned about this than what they tend to see from the maximum supply, except we all have different approach to what we see with utmost value or priority to us.

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Ambatman
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December 26, 2025, 08:11:09 PM
 #23


I do consider lost coins as burned because actually they just cannot be spent and remains dormant on the network. It almost same thing, the only difference is one is done intentionally and the other isn't.
Not really. There's another difference which is lost coins can't be recovered once their private keys are found
While burnt coins don't have any private key so has always been inaccessible.

Quote
You mean some don't? We've seen many stories this year that would probably back my point.. one way or the other a few number of them flaunts their holdings on their social media pages
Most of the time I find this common with traders not those that invested in Bitcoin (Holding)
And yes, Many prefer to sacrifice security for money and fame.

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December 26, 2025, 10:00:36 PM
 #24

It is interesting how the Bitcoin that has never moved are also an indicator of the Security of Bitcoin.  Older Addresses are more vulnerable to future attacks than newer Addresses.  If many old UTXOs start moving, it could also be a sign that an attack is occurring.  What I did not understand is why some people are very desperate about 'lost' Coins.  Every year, old Addresses are moving Bitcoin out.  It is going to keep happening.  People like Ross Ulbricht may still have some lots of Bitcoin in his stash to unload.

 
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December 27, 2025, 11:51:10 AM
 #25

Yeah the waking of a satoshi-era wallet is always a trip. Proves those legendary holders are real and still among us that ticking clock analogy is perfect Every dormant coin is a story, and its potential movement is part of what makes Bitcoin's economics so unpredictable and alive


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December 28, 2025, 08:48:15 AM
 #26

It's very hard to distinguish a line between lost coins and extremely patient holders or those, who lost access to coins but gained access more than a decade later. We have seen one of the oldest addresses moving their coins recently, too. I wouldn't treat dormant coins as deleted coins. The only coins that I consider truly deleted are those that are sent to burn addresses. There is no way someone can gain access to an address like this - 1CounterpartyXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXUWLpVr and this - 1111111111111111111114oLvT2, so it's safe to assume that any coin sent to these addresses is truly lost forever. Coins in the Genesis Block address are also guaranteed to be lost.

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