[ANN] [XMG] MAGI | CPU mining | mPoW | mPoS | [MagiPay]

[joelao95]

effective ratio in coin rollout
POW vs POS is like 10:1
one of the next releases should get that into 1:1 or even 1:2

because people who POS have to invest and hold coins
people who POW can instant sell coins and still earn and market suffer from constant sellpressure

people buy coins to be able stake them generate buy pressure

that POS returns on global coin rollout is so low is because 60% of total coins dont participate in POS
because of the ruleset that require u to run ur wallet 24/7
basically a very good idea
just the balance in POW vs POS coin rollout doesnt fit any longer
while at POW more coins are rolled out if  less people participate
at POS are less coins rolled out if less people participate

to make POS similar and reward people more if there is less competition
a static POS blockrewward instead a year based  pos reward can help
this way u also clear able to estimate how much POS coins are produced each year

Thanks for the inputs, cryptonit. I can see your points; however, I'm afraid that this would suppress the miners' interests:

1) I always believe that staking should not be a major channel of minting coins, and never..

2) Though we have issues in PoW, we have to find solutions, instead of dropping it off...

[Coins-R-Us]

I agree with Abiky, Magi is my most favorite altcoin too!
For so many reasons:  It has a great name and coin image,
for starters.  Magi can be mined on any regular computer or
tablet or android phone, even.  Designed for a more fair and even
distribution, which increases decentralization.  It stakes much
faster than peercoin, which takes forever to stake lol.

I use the coin image as my avatar at some bitcoin poker sites.
Also the huge community attracted me to this coin, and now
we have active development going on.  These are exciting times!

[cryptonit]

effective ratio in coin rollout
POW vs POS is like 10:1
one of the next releases should get that into 1:1 or even 1:2

because people who POS have to invest and hold coins
people who POW can instant sell coins and still earn and market suffer from constant sellpressure

people buy coins to be able stake them generate buy pressure

that POS returns on global coin rollout is so low is because 60% of total coins dont participate in POS
because of the ruleset that require u to run ur wallet 24/7
basically a very good idea
just the balance in POW vs POS coin rollout doesnt fit any longer
while at POW more coins are rolled out if  less people participate
at POS are less coins rolled out if less people participate

to make POS similar and reward people more if there is less competition
a static POS blockrewward instead a year based  pos reward can help
this way u also clear able to estimate how much POS coins are produced each year

Thanks for the inputs, cryptonit. I can see your points; however, I'm afraid that this would suppress the miners' interests:

1) I always believe that staking should not be a major channel of minting coins, and never..

2) Though we have issues in PoW, we have to find solutions, instead of dropping it off...

in my opinion the rewards should fit at least to the amount of block produced

for now 2/3 of blocks are POS blocks and protecting the network
https://chainz.cryptoid.info/xmg/#!extraction

2/3 of blocks and protecting the network for 1/10 of the daily rewards
there is something wrong

i can understand if u say u want POW to stay a major coin rollout source
but serious the balance between POW and POS is not right at this moment

[jrdudley20]

-SNiP-

Hey there, was going to let you know that our staking pool web site is live now. There is also a faucet available as well. Would love for you to check it out and maybe even contribute some coins in the staking pool.

Check us out:

POSWallet.com

There is something wrong...
I tried once to register and login after that - no luck... Keep getting the message "Incorrect login credentials, please try again."
So I do the registration once again and once again I tried to login. Still the same message...

Do I have to confirm my mail? Because there is no mail received.

I am sorry about that. When I first posted about the site the DEV had registration closed while he was working on bugs before he officially launched. Registration should be open now. You might try registering again and it should work this time.

[jrdudley20]

Hey there, was going to let you know that our staking pool web site is live now. There is also a faucet available as well. Would love for you to check it out and maybe even contribute some coins in the staking pool.

Check us out:

POSWallet.com

Thanks for the work. I'll check out; we'll contribute some coins for your hard work, if it does work as you stated that there is no risk of losing coins from users side.

The site is in beta. The DEV is rolling out new features and fixing bugs everyday. He plans on giving users access to private keys later this week. The faucet is up and working and the coin wallets with a large sum of coins are staking regularly and are working like they are supposed to be.

[th3.r00t]

There is something wrong...
I tried once to register and login after that - no luck... Keep getting the message "Incorrect login credentials, please try again."
So I do the registration once again and once again I tried to login. Still the same message...

Do I have to confirm my mail? Because there is no mail received.

I am sorry about that. When I first posted about the site the DEV had registration closed while he was working on bugs before he officially launched. Registration should be open now. You might try registering again and it should work this time.

Thanks.
Just registered and logged in normally.

A quick heads-up - the site doesn't have SSL, which is bad for site that want to make his users to trust them with their coins... 
Atleast while in beta you can use LetsEncrypt's free SSL certs...

[jrdudley20]

There is something wrong...
I tried once to register and login after that - no luck... Keep getting the message "Incorrect login credentials, please try again."
So I do the registration once again and once again I tried to login. Still the same message...

Do I have to confirm my mail? Because there is no mail received.

I am sorry about that. When I first posted about the site the DEV had registration closed while he was working on bugs before he officially launched. Registration should be open now. You might try registering again and it should work this time.

Thanks.
Just registered and logged in normally.

A quick heads-up - the site doesn't have SSL, which is bad for site that want to make his users to trust them with their coins... 
Atleast while in beta you can use LetsEncrypt's free SSL certs...

Thanks for the feedback. I will pass the SSL thing onto the DEV.

[lionheart78]

Feel free to use and improve this signature, For Hero / Legendary rank,

Code:

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[Abiky]

Designed for a more fair and even
distribution, which increases decentralization.  It stakes much
faster than peercoin, which takes forever to stake lol.

Exactly. Those are some of the advantages that Coin Magi has. Its unique mining algorithm makes it suitable for an average Joe to begin mining with any kind of hashrate without the need to compete with big miners. With this in mind, it makes the coin more decentralized due to the fact that the bigger the hashrate, the lower the reward which makes a fair distribution of XMG for everyone. 

[joelao95]

in my opinion the rewards should fit at least to the amount of block produced

for now 2/3 of blocks are POS blocks and protecting the network
https://chainz.cryptoid.info/xmg/#!extraction

2/3 of blocks and protecting the network for 1/10 of the daily rewards
there is something wrong

i can understand if u say u want POW to stay a major coin rollout source
but serious the balance between POW and POS is not right at this moment

PoS blocks vs PoW quite right bud, I'll explain more later, little bit busy.

[jrdudley20]

There is something wrong...
I tried once to register and login after that - no luck... Keep getting the message "Incorrect login credentials, please try again."
So I do the registration once again and once again I tried to login. Still the same message...

Do I have to confirm my mail? Because there is no mail received.

I am sorry about that. When I first posted about the site the DEV had registration closed while he was working on bugs before he officially launched. Registration should be open now. You might try registering again and it should work this time.

Thanks.
Just registered and logged in normally.

A quick heads-up - the site doesn't have SSL, which is bad for site that want to make his users to trust them with their coins... 
Atleast while in beta you can use LetsEncrypt's free SSL certs...

Thanks for the feedback. I will pass the SSL thing onto the DEV.

SSL was added to the site thanks for the suggestion

[fragilefungi]

Hey everyone!  I have been away for awhile but am doing fine.  I hope everyone is well.

My old computer was knocked out by a power surge (It was on a surge protector but still died), and my XMG wallet was offline for more than a month.  I finally got my new computer up and running, and nothing in my magi wallet would stake.  I left it for a few days but all of the weight was gone.  I had to resend all the coins to myself before I could start staking again.

I have read through some of the recent discussion on this thread, and I think what happened to me is one reason why coin creation through PoS is low.  Sometimes coins go offline for so long that the weight is lost.  When miners go offline more coins are created, but when stakers go offline, fewer coins are created.  Even if a transaction is online for a month, there is a nonzero chance that these coins will never stake.

The other reason I think that such a low % of total coins are actively staking is traders.  There is more money to be made buying low from one exchange and selling high on other exchanges then there is from staking.  Traders catch the miner dumps on the big exchanges and sell to stakers for a higher price on the little exchanges.  Arbitration is a good thing for the coin because it keeps the price close on all the exchanges, but I think there should be more of a penalty in terms of stake opportunity cost for traders setting large sell orders and then leaving them there for a long time until they fill.

I think changes can and should be made to the PoW and PoS rewards while still preserving the intent of the original reward structure.  As it is right now, PoS coin creation is lower then intended.  As a result of this PoW coin creation is higher as a percentage of total coin creation then intended.  If more miners were holding these coins long term this would be fine, but otherwise this is bad for price stability.  When price stability is bad, it gives stakers less of an incentive because the loss in price will be greater then the coins gained through staking.

My solution would be to half the PoW rewards and to double the PoS rewards, although I think doing either of those by themselves would be better then doing nothing.  Doing both of these things I believe would get the reward breakdown closer to what was intended, because the number of coins staking would only marginally increase.  Traders could still make quicker profits buying and selling then staking, but the incentive for people to buy coins to hold and stake will be slightly higher. Most of my stake rewards (>90%) are less than 0.1 XMG and many (>80%) are less than 0.01 XMG. Doubling the PoS rewards for me from 5 XMG per week to 10 XMG per week for staking 12k is not going to drastically increase inflation.  If the PoW rewards are also lowered at the same time so that total coin creation is lower, inflation will actually be reduced and price may be more stable.  More coins will still be created through PoW mining then staking, but the breakdown for the rewards would be closer to 1/3 from PoS and 2/3 from PoW, while 2/3 of the number of blocks are still PoS.

Stakers protect the network, and I think that increasing the incentive to stake only slightly will increase the number of people or coins staking long term.  Decreasing the total coins created through a PoW halving will help with price stability and decrease the risk of a price drop to long term stakers.

[joelao95]

Fragilefungi,

I am so glad to see you again and that your wallet was not damaged. It's been a while that I was off this thread too cause I had to recover from pains of real life business; fortunately got over.

Regarding PoW vs PoS, we had some discussions in the past as I remember. To me, it's very hard to go the direction of suppressing PoW and increasing PoS; well, I cannot simply say no with no reasons. I'll talk more on this topic during weekend.

[Lightsplasher]

The new wallet works great so far for me!  It builds fine in Ubuntu and the split threshold appears to work and it loads up much, much faster!  Thank you. I haven't seen it combine any blocks yet but maybe my older smaller blocks don't have any coin weight now as pointed out by fragilefungi.  I'm looking forward to a few months of set it and forget it after a long period of combining blocks all the time to tweak the PoS return up.  Maybe a small boost in the interest rate might keep us hardcore PoS guys from grumbling so much.  Nudge nudge, poke, poke. 

I do see your point in keeping it as it is though, coins are all over the place in the interest, block reward cap and PoW rewards and the ones that don't do to well tend to have higher rates of coin production.  I keep thinking that some sort of project to actually make a use for XMG would be a better use of resources than trying to adjust the coin production but we could certainly do both.

I was thinking at one time about doing a multi-player game in PlayCanvas where we could rain coins like we can in IRC but it seems like a lot of work and I'm not sure if there would be enough interest to make it worthwhile.

Other things I have thought about are a virtual reality video in stereo 360 showing a world with XMG coins dropping in it.  It would be viewable in Google Cardboard.

I'm feeling pretty motivated now to do some type of work but can't promise what is going to get done at this point. I've been having a few issues and a recent hospitalization but things are much better now.

[fragilefungi]

Fragilefungi,

I am so glad to see you again and that your wallet was not damaged. It's been a while that I was off this thread too cause I had to recover from pains of real life business; fortunately got over.

Regarding PoW vs PoS, we had some discussions in the past as I remember. To me, it's very hard to go the direction of suppressing PoW and increasing PoS; well, I cannot simply say no with no reasons. I'll talk more on this topic during weekend.

Yes it is always good to have backups.  Medical stuff always sucks and myself I am recovering from dental work recently done and about to be performed.

For an example of how easy it is to trade compared to stake I bought up on Poloniex right after I made the last post with 6.5 mBTC.  A few hours later I sold them for 5000 satoshi more after fees.  The XMG i staked all day was worth 308 satoshi.  I wanted to add coins to my wallet to stake but it just seemed easier to take the 0.8% in 12 hours.

We should also talk about increasing the average hash rate on the network in the most energy efficient ways possible.  I have some ideas and some chips lying around.

I understand your concerns Joe about over-inflation with PoS, but I don't think doubling the PoS rewards would be enough to do this because the actual number of coins created through PoS each day is so much less then is theoretically possible.  There is an efficiency factor for coin creation through PoS that needs to be considered because things happen in the real world and coins sitting on exchanges sell for higher values.  

I think that a more fair allocation of rewards would lead more people to want to buy XMG to stake long term.  It would also give people more incentive to mine and hold, rather then having small miners who see mining XMG as another faucet that they can dump each day and use for gambling or other things.   It is more likely that coins created by PoS are going to be held long term then with PoW, which is why I think that making changes will increase price stability and is a goal that I think you want as well.

Maybe a smaller change to PoS to start would be easier.  You could add the staking efficiency factor into the code where Stakerate%/(CoinsStaking/CoinTotal)=Stakerate%

This would only get the number of coins each day created through staking up to what was originally intended.

[Coins-R-Us]

hmmm yes it had crossed my mind about the offline coins losing
weight, which could cause the auto split/merge to NOT work.
I'm glad some of you brought this matter up.

All the discussion about POS/POW is very interesting.  I have
faith in our developer that he will make smart decisions.
Personally, I don't really care what the ratio is, and I will keep
staking and mining and holding this coin.  But maybe I am not
your average Joe lol.  I don't mean any disrespect to anyone.

Another good point mentioned is that Magi needs a use, or game.
We could set up a donation/lottery of some kind to fund it.  Of course
the game development might need to be funded also.
Or we could get integrated into the Dragon Knights of Valeria game,
which seems perfect to get some Magi coin exposure. They use 8 coins.
Also could get integrated at fortunejack(dot)com, they use 9 coins already.
Just some of my random "brainstorming" thoughts.

[starmman]

I'm not sure if anybody else has noticed, but it looks like m-chain.info hasn't been working for the last few days

Does anybody know who is responsible for the service?

As far as I can see, the last update was 2016-06-24 02:03:13

Thanks =)

[cryptonit]

the most fair way would be switch to a static POS system that rewards each block found
if each POS and each POW block earn static 5 XMG then u have a daily coin rollout of around 7200 XMG
and then slowly reduce the coinrollout over time the close the coin come to its total coins
to make it fair rollout between POS and POW u could just adapt blocktimes to same time so 50% of blocks are POW and 50% are POS


u have to see the positive aspects of POS that are by far not matched by the positive aspects of POW

a static reward POS need u to have ur wallet up and  minting as much as possible for rewards
(i know actual system also punish  closed wallets but still u could just mine every 2rd day and not be punished)

POS increase number of active wallets on network

POS adds buy support because u need to own coins to start earning coins

POS add security by hybrid secure the chain

POW add security by hybrid secure the chain

POW allow get hands on coins without buy on exchange


if u compare that POW have his place but in my opinion sure not above 50% of coin rollout

and its 90-95% of daily coins that goes towards POW rewards

[batesresearch]

We have introduced discounts on orders paying with XMG - Coin Magi, discounts are 20% off monthly orders, 25% off 6 monthly orders and 30% off annual orders.

[fragilefungi]

the most fair way would be switch to a static POS system that rewards each block found
if each POS and each POW block earn static 5 XMG then u have a daily coin rollout of around 7200 XMG
and then slowly reduce the coinrollout over time the close the coin come to its total coins
to make it fair rollout between POS and POW u could just adapt blocktimes to same time so 50% of blocks are POW and 50% are POS


u have to see the positive aspects of POS that are by far not matched by the positive aspects of POW

a static reward POS need u to have ur wallet up and  minting as much as possible for rewards
(i know actual system also punish  closed wallets but still u could just mine every 2rd day and not be punished)

POS increase number of active wallets on network

POS adds buy support because u need to own coins to start earning coins

POS add security by hybrid secure the chain

POW add security by hybrid secure the chain

POW allow get hands on coins without buy on exchange


if u compare that POW have his place but in my opinion sure not above 50% of coin rollout

and its 90-95% of daily coins that goes towards POW rewards

One of the unique things about magi is that when hashrate goes up, PoW rewards go down.  Going static rewards for PoW would lead to higher hashrates at all times of the day.  This would lead to higher energy consumption to maintain the network, while one of the goals of this coin is to have as energy efficient of a network as possible.

The problem with going static rewards for PoS would be that sizing blocks would be extremely important.  This would be hard for new users to compete with people who are more staking experts.  One advantage to how staking currently works is that casual users can get normal sized transactions through normal use and they will occasional get stakes.  If there was a better use case for the coin casual users would be able to get stakes.  I personally like how magi stakes, but I just want all of the dust rewards to add up to something slightly more.

You make a lot of great points about advantages to PoS, including active wallets on the network.  One thing that reading your post made me think of is that if 90% of coins are being created through PoW, the network is not as energy efficient as possible.  It takes an insignificant amount of energy for me to stake.  My computer is already going to be on, and it is running other PoS wallets.  When over 90% of coins are created through PoW, we as a network are paying for more energy to maintain the network then is necessary.  Getting the network to more of a 60% PoW/40% PoS creation split would reduce energy consumption while not negatively affecting price or network stability.