[XMR] Monero Speculation

[Febo]

I'm not following you, that quote basically says what I said.
Grin creates more fungible coins as it destroys the links (transactions) automatically but you also have a trade off by not being able to prove a past transaction.
I'm not sure what effect Monero's pruning will have but I think there will still be full nodes with non pruned chains. TBH I don't remember and am not going to go an re-read it.

Lets reduce to this

Basically, Monero has three privacy protocols. Ring signatures, stealth addresses, and ringCT. However, stealth addresses and CT are the only parts that are absolutely essential to privacy. Ring signatures are great for the paranoid, but they actually aren’t completely necessary. They’re wonderful, but they’re also redundant. Grin strips these away and leaves only stealth addresses and confidential transactions. An observer still can’t derive any useful information from a Grin transaction, and the fact that Grin allows transactions to aggregate, or merge together, makes it even harder to trace.

Monero have 3 Grin 2. Blockhain analysis will break through. Maybe they will fix it. If they will maybe that will be Monero next solution.


This is actually first time I am reading someone propose that grin is less traceable as Monero.  Here is what someone else says:

[Hueristic]

I'm not following you, that quote basically says what I said.
Grin creates more fungible coins as it destroys the links (transactions) automatically but you also have a trade off by not being able to prove a past transaction.
I'm not sure what effect Monero's pruning will have but I think there will still be full nodes with non pruned chains. TBH I don't remember and am not going to go an re-read it.

Lets reduce to this

Basically, Monero has three privacy protocols. Ring signatures, stealth addresses, and ringCT. However, stealth addresses and CT are the only parts that are absolutely essential to privacy. Ring signatures are great for the paranoid, but they actually aren’t completely necessary. They’re wonderful, but they’re also redundant. Grin strips these away and leaves only stealth addresses and confidential transactions. An observer still can’t derive any useful information from a Grin transaction, and the fact that Grin allows transactions to aggregate, or merge together, makes it even harder to trace.

Monero have 3 Grin 2. Blockhain analysis will break through. Maybe they will fix it. If they will maybe that will be Monero next solution.


This is actually first time I am reading someone propose that grin is less traceable as Monero.  Here is what someone else says:

The bolded above is exactly what I said, so you are confusing me here.

I am speaking in terms of chain analysis, not tracing a transaction while its in progress (I have no clue about that) But, like I said

From what I understand of mimblewimble is there are no records kept which yes will make for great fungability but how can you prove you made a transaction in the past?

Everything in life is a tradeoff and you need to choose by what balance you are willing to accept. If you want a fully transparent ledger then BTC is top dog for the job./quote]

If I am incorrect in this understanding then explain to me how? All I have done is a cursory investigation of grin over a year ago so it's not like I propose to be an expert nor a supporter. Although I do support ALL tools to keep an individuals personal information private.

[joroz]

From what I understand of mimblewimble is there are no records kept

There are no records kept in the *blockchain*. But every full node receives all the intermittent states of each transaction, and there is nothing stopping them from logging that information. It requires some credulity to think there are no interested parties who have logged Grin from the genesis block.

A self-pruning blockchain does not equate to a fungible blockchain.

[joroz]

@joroz I can't tell if you're being serious or not.
You should put an emoticon like  if you're being sarcastic.

 

[Globb0]

From what I understand of mimblewimble is there are no records kept

There are no records kept in the *blockchain*. But every full node receives all the intermittent states of each transaction, and there is nothing stopping them from logging that information. It requires some credulity to think there are no interested parties who have logged Grin from the genesis block.

A self-pruning blockchain does not equate to a fungible blockchain.

So they need "listening posts" ?

[equipoise]

From what I understand of mimblewimble is there are no records kept

There are no records kept in the *blockchain*. But every full node receives all the intermittent states of each transaction, and there is nothing stopping them from logging that information. It requires some credulity to think there are no interested parties who have logged Grin from the genesis block.

A self-pruning blockchain does not equate to a fungible blockchain.

Exactly! That's my understanding too. With some full nodes running you can store/trace transactions the same way as Bitcoin blockchain. Grin is not fungible/privacy coin.

[Hueristic]

From what I understand of mimblewimble is there are no records kept

There are no records kept in the *blockchain*. But every full node receives all the intermittent states of each transaction, and there is nothing stopping them from logging that information. It requires some credulity to think there are no interested parties who have logged Grin from the genesis block.

A self-pruning blockchain does not equate to a fungible blockchain.

Thank you Joroz for pointing that out.

So although at any point in time a MW chain would be forensically impossible to analyze it can be assumed that that information (that is not stored in the chain but is accessible and collectable at the time of a transaction) has already been cached by TPTB and I'm sure any others wishing to sell that info in the future.

Is that safe to say?

[Hueristic]

From what I understand of mimblewimble is there are no records kept

There are no records kept in the *blockchain*. But every full node receives all the intermittent states of each transaction, and there is nothing stopping them from logging that information. It requires some credulity to think there are no interested parties who have logged Grin from the genesis block.

A self-pruning blockchain does not equate to a fungible blockchain.

Exactly! That's my understanding too. With some full nodes running you can store/trace transactions the same way as Bitcoin blockchain. Grin is not fungible/privacy coin.

Do you have a link that supports your assertion that Grin Full Nodes do indeed (by default?) keep this information?

BTW what about the other MW clones?

[jwinterm]

From what I understand of mimblewimble is there are no records kept

There are no records kept in the *blockchain*. But every full node receives all the intermittent states of each transaction, and there is nothing stopping them from logging that information. It requires some credulity to think there are no interested parties who have logged Grin from the genesis block.

A self-pruning blockchain does not equate to a fungible blockchain.

Exactly! That's my understanding too. With some full nodes running you can store/trace transactions the same way as Bitcoin blockchain. Grin is not fungible/privacy coin.

Do you have a link that supports your assertion that Grin Full Nodes do indeed (by default?) keep this information?

BTW what about the other MW clones?

It doesn't matter if it's collected by default, am interested party can record the entire history of the network. I think they all/both operate essentially the same, re: beam et al.

[smooth]

From what I understand of mimblewimble is there are no records kept

There are no records kept in the *blockchain*. But every full node receives all the intermittent states of each transaction, and there is nothing stopping them from logging that information. It requires some credulity to think there are no interested parties who have logged Grin from the genesis block.

A self-pruning blockchain does not equate to a fungible blockchain.

Exactly! That's my understanding too. With some full nodes running you can store/trace transactions the same way as Bitcoin blockchain. Grin is not fungible/privacy coin.

Same as Bitcoin is a bit unfair. Bitcoin has frequent address reuse and visible amounts, both of which make blockchain analysis easier and more effective.

Grin is somewhere in between Bitcoin and Monero in terms of privacy.

[cAPSLOCK]

Is it still "too soon" to start hoping for a post exchange theft XMR boost?

Wouldn't be the first time.

[deerlion]

Its no surprise that people in this thread remain optimistic about monero's future but I share a different sentiment.  Monero is a dying coin.  the hype is dying down, lots of new privacy projects will overtake the marketshare that xmr has managed to capture.  I would sell off for bitcoin if you are still holding any monero.

[Andretti83]

Its no surprise that people in this thread remain optimistic about monero's future but I share a different sentiment.  Monero is a dying coin.  the hype is dying down, lots of new privacy projects will overtake the marketshare that xmr has managed to capture.  I would sell off for bitcoin if you are still holding any monero.

It would be nice, if any of you would actually name a new better privacy coin. But you never do. And there is a good reason why there always no examples.

[Indamuck]

Its no surprise that people in this thread remain optimistic about monero's future but I share a different sentiment.  Monero is a dying coin.  the hype is dying down, lots of new privacy projects will overtake the marketshare that xmr has managed to capture.  I would sell off for bitcoin if you are still holding any monero.

It would be nice, if any of you would actually name a new better privacy coin. But you never do. And there is a good reason why there always no examples.

Its ignorant to think nothing will ever come and topple Monero.  Maybe if you actually were knowledgeable about new projects you wouldn't be so confident about Monero's dominance.  Don't get wrong its still a solid coin for the next year or so but its not something I want to be in long term.

[jwinterm]

Its no surprise that people in this thread remain optimistic about monero's future but I share a different sentiment.  Monero is a dying coin.  the hype is dying down, lots of new privacy projects will overtake the marketshare that xmr has managed to capture.  I would sell off for bitcoin if you are still holding any monero.

It would be nice, if any of you would actually name a new better privacy coin. But you never do. And there is a good reason why there always no examples.

Its ignorant to think nothing will ever come and topple Monero.  Maybe if you actually were knowledgeable about new projects you wouldn't be so confident about Monero's dominance.  Don't get wrong its still a solid coin for the next year or so but its not something I want to be in long term.

Thanks for sharing your examples of better options.

[Indamuck]

I'm not just going to give out valuable knowledge that I had to research myself, if you are willing to put in the time and effort you can find those projects that go 100x-1000x yourself.


If you believe monero will continue to be the dominant privacy coin for years than good luck to you, I hope all of crypto succeeds but I am looking for the highest return on my investment.

I've seen too many top companies that were beaten out by newcomers.  Obviously xmr isn't a company but the point stands.


Once .01 btc price gets broken it is going to look real bad.

please don't take offence to my opinion, I dumped my xmr for btc when the ratio was much higher because I think its the right financial move.

[Hueristic]

Its no surprise that people in this thread remain optimistic about monero's future but I share a different sentiment.  Monero is a dying coin.  the hype is dying down, lots of new privacy projects will overtake the marketshare that xmr has managed to capture.  I would sell off for bitcoin if you are still holding any monero.

YAY, N00bs trolling preaching to sell while still possible!

BULLISH.

I'm not just going to give out valuable knowledge that I had to research myself, if you are willing to put in the time and effort you can find those projects that go 100x-1000x yourself.


If you believe monero will continue to be the dominant privacy coin for years than good luck to you, I hope all of crypto succeeds but I am looking for the highest return on my investment.

I've seen too many top companies that were beaten out by newcomers.  Obviously xmr isn't a company but the point stands.


Once .01 btc price gets broken it is going to look real bad.

please don't take offence to my opinion, I dumped my xmr for btc when the ratio was much higher because I think its the right financial move.

So glad you came here to let us know your out!

Trying to get back in cheaper?

Good luck on that.

[cAPSLOCK]

Its no surprise that people in this thread remain optimistic about monero's future but I share a different sentiment.  Monero is a dying coin.  the hype is dying down, lots of new privacy projects will overtake the marketshare that xmr has managed to capture.  I would sell off for bitcoin if you are still holding any monero.

You sure you woudn't us rather sell it for BSV???

There is a certain smell I noticed when you pranced into the room.

[7jaka7]

Its no surprise that people in this thread remain optimistic about monero's future but I share a different sentiment.  Monero is a dying coin.  the hype is dying down, lots of new privacy projects will overtake the marketshare that xmr has managed to capture.  I would sell off for bitcoin if you are still holding any monero.

You sure you woudn't us rather sell it for BSV???

There is a certain smell I noticed when you pranced into the room.

I am quite sure he couldn't list more than 5 privacy oriented coins without looking at CMC.
And no chance he could elaborate in comparing them.

[Biro Bob]

Its getting very close to triggering a bid I’ve had for nearly two years. Its not my lowest bid, but its getting there.

I also had forgotten that my BTC/XMR split used to act as a kind of damper in 2017 to manage volatility. I’m pretty sure that when the BTC and Crypto bull run starts again $63 and 0.01 are gonna seem like very safe entry points. (IMHO)