[ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread [Self-Moderated]

[EduardoDeCastro]

Yep, and only 6.72 BTC being offered for the remaining 80%.

You don't understand how an exchange works. It a bit like a shop. Not every customer is in Walmart at every second of the day. Not everyone - infact very few big buyers - use buy orders.

If Wal-Mart had an 80% OFF EVERYTHING SALE...

[Pompobit]

Is it legal? Absolutely, within the spirit and letter of the law. Without any court order instructing him otherwise, Ken is like any debtor who has seized assets, entitled to sell them to recover his losses. The fact that other parties have a claim against Ukyo is a side issue for Ken. They need to take up their own acts of seizure or legal disputes with this individual.

Ok, I'm sure now you are in bad faith, if you can say it is legal to sell something you don't own.
By the way, I'm not here to convince you, I know you are invested in this company and you desperately need to keep the shares worth something, it's time wasted for me.
I was just here to let Ken to know that Ukyo is not the only one willing to sue him, as I said, I'll investigate if it is possible to include this event in the legal action against weexchange.

[Jasun7211]

Is it fair? Is it legal?

News for you - business isn't fair. If you want to succeed in business you often need to play hard-ball and make big decisions.

Is it legal? Absolutely, within the spirit and letter of the law. Without any court order instructing him otherwise, Ken is like any debtor who has seized assets, entitled to sell them to recover his losses. The fact that other parties have a claim against Ukyo is a side issue for Ken. They need to take up their own acts of seizure or legal disputes with this individual.

Wait, don't seized assets get split between ALL the debtors?

Nothing is seized yet, if ever at all.  This is not the regulated business environment.  In this bitcoin world you have to take it while its hot.  Remember these are virtual shares in a virtual currency.    

[EduardoDeCastro]

...
Wait, don't seized assets get split between ALL the debtors?

Just stop it.  This is two pickpockets stealing from each other.  No need to bring corporate law into this.

[minerpart]

Wait, don't seized assets get split between ALL the debtors?

Well not in my country. There has to be a court order to make that sort of distribution compulsory. When a car is repossessed does the car seller/repossesor share the proceeds out with the landlord who hasn't been paid his rent? We are taking back assests that were sold by us directly to Ukyo. So we have recovered those assets and are in the process of selling them to refund our losses. 100% legit.

[Pompobit]

Wait, don't seized assets get split between ALL the debtors?

you get the point now.

It is really easy to get, probably you are in bad faith.

Let's explain with easy numbers.

Ukyo stole 1000 XBT from 10 users, Ken was on of the users and robbed by 100 XBT
Ken holds (not owns) 100 ActM Ukyo's shares with 1XBT value each one.
Those shares are owned by Ukyo and he could (and should) liquidate them to partially refund ALL weexchange users, so 10XBT each one
Ken instead sells him and pays back his debt entirely, leaving none to the other users.

Is it fair? Is it legal?

[minerpart]

Ok, I'm sure now you are in bad faith,

I am simply referring to US law. You don't have to take my word for it do some research on lien.

[EduardoDeCastro]

Ok, I'm sure now you are in bad faith,

I am simply referring to US law. You don't have to take my word for it do some research on lien.

You should be quoting Belize law.  Active Mining is a Belize Virtual Identity

[MilkyWayMasta]

Wait, don't seized assets get split between ALL the debtors?

Well not in my country. There has to be a court order to make that sort of distribution compulsory. When a car is repossessed does the car seller/repossesor share the proceeds out with the landlord who hasn't been paid his rent? We are taking back assests that were sold by us directly to Ukyo. So we have recovered those assets and are in the process of selling them to refund our losses. 100% legit.

Your analogy clear it up for me, thanks.

[minerpart]

I was just here to let Ken to know that Ukyo is not the only one willing to sue him, as I said, I'll investigate if it is possible to include this event in the legal action against weexchange.

I hope you are still reading this as I have a scenario for you:

Ken sells 25% of the shares and recovers all ACtM losses.
Ken returns the 75% of the shares to Ukyo.
Then what happens?

Does Ukyo sell the rest and distribute the money to other WeEx users? I don't think that is ever going to happen. This guy is going to jail. No question, he is a multimillion dollar fraudster. He would expect to serve 15-20 years for such a crime even if he tried to pay some of the money back. A lenient judge might give him 10years.

Now why would he hang around if he made 500BTC by selling his 75%. Why wouldn't he disappear to Mexico?

So the point is, you you have zero chance of getting any money back from this criminal. Ukyo will keep any money he gets and use if for his life on the run. He may already be in Mexico.

[kleeck]

Wow. What a complete and utter clown show! Such a beautiful mixture of highly emotional bitching, drudging up the same old bullshit FUD (that's been put down more times then I'd like to count), and general group-think freak outs. Glorious.

[damiano]

I dont even know why I come to the shit show anymore

Every day I hope to pick out something useful

[knybe]

Buncha legal experts you all are.

If anyone is buying any of these cut rate shares for a company that hasn't proven one iota of its business goals, I suggest you consider using monies that you can afford to lose.

Big fat gamble at this point.

[Jasun7211]

I really like this company, too bad my vision of a shareholders meeting is something like the movie It's a Mad, Mad, Mad , Mad, Mad World where everyone is looking for a big W.  

Ken...keep on keepin on brotha!!!  

[VinceSamios]

1. The lein and sale of ukyo's shares to recover funds is legal and does not expose legal risk. If Ukyo started proceedings Ken would be obliged to hold onto the shares until they were resolved, so there is incentive for Ken to liquidate them sooner rather than later.

2. The shares are not for Ken, they are for the company

3. Ken/the company doesn't care what price the shares are sold for, save for the fact the 100BTC+costs needs to be recovered. Leaving some shares for Ukyo is not a consideration. Liquidating the shares to recover 100BTC+costs is the ONLY consideration.

4. Since it is not Ken personally trading, but the company, it doesn't legally matter if no other shares are tradable. This is essentially a re-IPO of Ukyo's shares

5. Ken is selling shares at most likely the price Ukyo paid for them, so Ukyo can't claim "they are worth more" - the fact they are selling semi slowly (30,000 shares in 24 hours) proves this point

6. If Ukyo takes Ken to court and wins (not gonna happen), in theory Ken can just give Ukyo 200,000 of his own 15 million shares. If I remember correctly there are also some shares from the first 10million that haven't actually sold yet (about 200k?)


Kids - sit down and have a glass of milk.

[knybe]

Between the yuko/weex debacle and now the bargain basement sell off by actm you couldn't make this shit up...

Any screenwriters in the house?

[Jasun7211]

1. The lein and sale of ukyo's shares to recover funds is legal and does not expose legal risk. If Ukyo started proceedings Ken would be obliged to hold onto the shares until they were resolved, so there is incentive for Ken to liquidate them sooner rather than later.

2. The shares are not for Ken, they are for the company

3. Ken/the company doesn't care what price the shares are sold for, save for the fact the 100BTC+costs needs to be recovered. Leaving some shares for Ukyo is not a consideration. Liquidating the shares to recover 100BTC+costs is the ONLY consideration.

4. Since it is not Ken personally trading, but the company, it doesn't legally matter if no other shares are tradable. This is essentially a re-IPO of Ukyo's shares

5. Ken is selling shares at most likely the price Ukyo paid for them, so Ukyo can't claim "they are worth more" - the fact they are selling semi slowly (30,000 shares in 24 hours) proves this point

6. If Ukyo takes Ken to court and wins (not gonna happen), in theory Ken can just give Ukyo 200,000 of his own 15 million shares. If I remember correctly there are also some shares from the first 10million that haven't actually sold yet (about 200k?)


Kids - sit down and have a glass of milk.

Keep Bumping this.  This is this weeks bible till this situation blows over.  Thank You!!!!

[funkymunky]

I see there are a lot of people on here expecting the imminent release of shares by this trollfest currently taking place on these pages!!

[minerpart]

If I remember correctly there are also some shares from the first 10million that haven't actually sold yet (about 200k?)

Absolutely correct on all points. There are 180k (I think) unsold from the IPO and Ken can indeed reimburse Ukyo from his own shares. I think anyone who knows anything about him will agree he's the kind of guy that would happily do that. It would be less than 2% of his own holdings. But it won't happen because if Ukyo goes near a court in his lifetime it will be to face the charges of multimillion dollar fraud.

[EduardoDeCastro]

...
3. Ken/the company doesn't care what price the shares are sold for, save for the fact the 100BTC+costs needs to be recovered. Leaving some shares for Ukyo is not a consideration. Liquidating the shares to recover 100BTC+costs is the ONLY consideration.
...

Ken promised to pay .0025 in divs for the shares he is selling @.0005.  If you take Ken at his word, he is effectively taking out a loan @400% interest.
Shrewd business move, or ?? ?
So much arithmetic fail in this thread...